Upgrading, but where to go from here?

[ExodusC]

Hey everyone, I've been considering and upgrade now that I'll have some extra cash coming in. Thing is, I am not quite sure where to go next. I have considered a few things, and I think I want to do an overhaul on this PC, but I'll list my current setup first so you guys can have a look.

CPU: Intel Q6600 Kentsfield B3 (Lapped) at 3.2GHz
RAM: Crucial Ballistix 4x1GB DDR2 800 at 5-5-5-18 800MHz
GPU: PowerColor ATI Radeon HD 4850 512MB at 650 Core / 1050 Mem
Mobo: Gigabyte GA-P35-S3L LGA775
Storage: 74GB 10000RPM Raptor & 250GB HITACHI Deskstar
Cooling: Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme (Lapped) & Arctic Cooling MX-2
Display: SCEPTRE 20.1" LCD at 1680x1050 60Hz RR
Input: G15 Gaming Keyboard v1 & G5 USB Mouse
Case: Alienware MJ-12 Workstation Mid-Tower
PSU: HIPRO 700W PSU

Now that you guys have seen what I have now, I'll list what I've been thinking of doing. These are prioritized by the the order I'm considering to do them in (if at all), but by all means criticize or rearrange them as you like.


Uninterruptable power supply! I lose power a lot here (really sucks) and usually only for a few seconds or minutes. A nice UPS would be nice to keep my PC, monitor, router, and modem online long enough for me to either save my work and shut down or just until the power comes back on. Any suggestions?
Some VGA cooling. This HD 4850 gets hot, and I'd like to cool it off. I'm looking for something that would work in a Crossfire setup, so I'm thinking about the T-Rad2 when it comes out.
Perhaps I could sell my motherboard for a bit of cash and then upgrade to something Crossfire capable (and RAID for that matter, my current one lacks a RAID controller). Any suggestions on a motherboard?
Assuming I get a Crossfire capable motherboard, I would probably pick up another HD 4850. Is this worth it? Do they scale well at 1680x1050 with AA enabled?
Assuming the Penryn 45nm quads (in particular the Q9450) drop in price as they are rumored to, should I pick up one? I could probably sell my lapped Q6600 (I'm sure even then people will still be looking for Q6600s for crunching CPUs). Would an HD 4850 Crossfire setup be limited by a Q6600 at 3.2GHz?
I've considered a RAID array for a while now, I could pick up another 74GB 10000RPM Raptor for probably around $50-60. I would need a RAID card, or more preferably a motherboard with a RAID controller to do this. Think a RAID array is worth going for?
A new case would be nice, as this one I have problems with. As it is a workstation case it is very heavy, relatively small inside, lacks wire management, and it has pretty poor airflow. I suppose I'm in the market for a full tower case, preferably one large enough for a watercooling setup. Oh, and with a window.
Assuming I get a new case, I've thought about going all out and doing some modding. I guess it's not top priority, but I'd need tools like a dremel and such, so that would be more money out of my pocket. I've just always wanted a really slick looking setup.


If anyone has any suggestions for where I should go next, please let me know. It's not that I am totally dissatisfied with my current build, but now that I'm getting some extra cash I'd love to do some upgrades.

[ExodusC]

I hate to bump, but I'd like to hear some opinions on where to go from here...

[Lethal1ty]

Here's a good review of an aftermarket cooler for the 4850. Link (http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/8299-sapphire-radeon-hd4850-512mb-graphics-card-review-23.html)
For a case, I'd recommend the Cosmos S (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119150) and they also make a side panel with a window (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811999186).

[oli_ramsay]

I guess you could get a better VGA cooler, the AC accelero S1 is awesome and very cheap. You could also get an E8400 and OC it to 4GHz :rockout:

[ExodusC]

Here's a good review of an aftermarket cooler for the 4850. Link (http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/8299-sapphire-radeon-hd4850-512mb-graphics-card-review-23.html)

I guess you could get a better VGA cooler, the AC accelero S1 is awesome and very cheap.
I've considered the S1, and judging by it's performance it might be the right choice. I've also considered waiting on the T-Rad2 or maybe grabbing a DuOrb, but I don't know if the T-Rad2 will have the right price/performance point and the DuOrb isn't all that high end for the price.


For a case, I'd recommend the Cosmos S (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119150) and they also make a side panel with a window (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811999186).
The Cosmos S is rather expensive, especially paying extra for the side panel with a window. I've looked at some other cases though (I'm definitely thinking full tower now). Here's a couple I checked out:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811144089
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811144128
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129043
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811144205


You could also get an E8400 and OC it to 4GHz :rockout:
Is stepping down to a higher clocked dual from a quad worth it? I've heard some rumors about the E5200 being a 45nm dual rated at 2.5GHz, and that may be the new budget chip when it comes around. I've also thought about grabbing a new motherboard and a Q9450 when the price drop (hopefully) comes into effect.

[TouGe]

1. If you lose power quite frequently then getting a UPS goes w/o mention. i don't know what your price range is for a UPS but you can get a decent one for around $150 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2013140072+4017&name=%24100+-+%24200&Order=REVIEWS). Here's the one I've been eyeing for a while, APC BR1500LCD 1500VA 900 Watts 8 Outlets BACK-UPS (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842101067).

3. For true 16/16 cross-fire I'd look at getting an x38/x48 chipset like the Rampage Formula or if you don't mind running 8/8 and you don't game at high resolutions, 1920x1200, then I'd pick-up the P5Q-D--the reviews I've seen where CF suffers @ 8/8 were at higher resolutions whereas at lower resolutions it doesn't appear to matter.

5. I am not entirely too sure about this one. The 45nm quads clock nicely on the P45 chipsets, especially the P5Q-D. You should easily be able to hit 450FSB as long as your memory can handle the higher FSB. if your interested I'd head over to the P5Q-D thread.

6. I personally don't think RAID0 is worth it. There are people here that will say otherwise but....

7. I'm a big fan of the Silverstone TJ07 or, if you are feeling like spending big dollars, the LIAN LI PC-P80 is quite the specimen.

[Lethal1ty]

I would definately pick the antec 1200, I built a rig for a friend using the antec 900 and it was a great case, although it had limited room inside. The 1200 won't have that problem and it would be easy to install a watercooling system inside if you decide to go that route. Here's some more cases for you to check out.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133056
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119158

As for quad vs dual, some people say dual is better for gaming but this is because most current games are not optimized for quad cores and duals easily reach higher speeds. My 3GHz dual core is fully stressed when playing Age of Conan. I'm planning a new build in a few months with either a q9450 or the new bloomfield cpu.


I personally don't think RAID0 is worth it. There are people here that will say otherwise but....
I agree, I'm not a fan of raid.

[Kondik]

First if CF don't buy P45 that 8x8x is a pain in the butt, had one , gave it back if the title isn't GPU dependant like COD4 you don't see a difference but try to play Crisis , on 1680*1050 i had 27 FPS HIGH now i have 42 , and i just changed boards , i saw a review of this , if you want CF go for the Rampage , it's an awesome board, This is my CF setup of two 4870 on a Rampage Formula http://img363.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf3447yq3.jpg ; http://img182.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf3442ka3.jpg
As for the Scaling, get an 4870, the price difference isn't as big and TBH even CF won't kill you 1680*1050 is maybe too low for CF 4870 but what the heck, I'm living just once and i want to have a propper AA + AF Fun ! Hell Yeah

In case of RAID , it's usefull if you don't like waiting, installing games from images on HDD is a matter of 2 - 5 minutes, loadings are fast but .. someone can live without it. If you wan't to try something buy Two Velociraptors and put them intro RAID 0

As for the CPU, TBH i don't know if you like to OC the hell of them go for those 8400, if no do as I did, Q9450 od if you can get a cheap Q9550, 3,4 GHz Quad in a multicore application is a wrecker !

As for the case, i had Aurora 3D 570 From Gigabyte, Beauthifull case but it had it's weaknesses
After a vouple of cases i found Stacker to be an ultimate case, very much variability, Lian LI P80 is Beauthifull without doubt, but the ability to reverse ATX in the stacker bought my heart ad as you see from the VGA pic there is lot of room even with two 9.5" Cards with propper cooling

The stacker from my point of view doesn't need modding but i don't like neons, collorfull grills and so on. My Green Red Blue LED Tagan is driving me crazy

[ExodusC]

1. If you lose power quite frequently then getting a UPS goes w/o mention. i don't know what your price range is for a UPS but you can get a decent one for around $150 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2013140072+4017&name=%24100+-+%24200&Order=REVIEWS). Here's the one I've been eyeing for a while, APC BR1500LCD 1500VA 900 Watts 8 Outlets BACK-UPS (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842101067).
I'm considering this one (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842102048) as it appears to be a solid UPS for the price, as well as having an informative LCD display.


3. For true 16/16 cross-fire I'd look at getting an x38/x48 chipset like the Rampage Formula or if you don't mind running 8/8 and you don't game at high resolutions, 1920x1200, then I'd pick-up the P5Q-D--the reviews I've seen where CF suffers @ 8/8 were at higher resolutions whereas at lower resolutions it doesn't appear to matter.
I game at 1680x1050, so if I really won't be limited by an x8/x8 link speed, then I suppose P45 would be a good choice for me. I was thinking more of the P5Q-E or P5Q Pro though.


5. I am not entirely too sure about this one. The 45nm quads clock nicely on the P45 chipsets, especially the P5Q-D. You should easily be able to hit 450FSB as long as your memory can handle the higher FSB. if your interested I'd head over to the P5Q-D thread.
I'm still keeping the Q9300 and Q9450 in mind. So do these boards hit an FSB wall around 450?


6. I personally don't think RAID0 is worth it. There are people here that will say otherwise but....
Eh, if I get a board with an onboard RAID controller I think I may keep picking up another Raptor in mind.


7. I'm a big fan of the Silverstone TJ07 or, if you are feeling like spending big dollars, the LIAN LI PC-P80 is quite the specimen.
Whew, that Lian Li PC-P80 is nice, but it is a little too expensive for my tastes.

[Lethal1ty]

If your gonna get a new quad, get the q9450 with the larger cache. With the p45 even if the fsb wall is 450 that would give you 3.6GHz for the q9450.

Here's some benchmarks for the 4850/4870 in cf
http://techreport.com/articles.x/14990/9

[ExodusC]

If your gonna get a new quad, get the q9450 with the larger cache. With the p45 even if the fsb wall is 450 that would give you 3.6GHz for the q9450.
Hmm, I was hoping to hit 4.0GHz. Would I need a chip with a higher multiplier and/or a better motherboard to pull that off?


Here's some benchmarks for the 4850/4870 in cf
http://techreport.com/articles.x/14990/9
I've seen that benchmark before, and I was impressed with the Crossfire scaling. Supposedly with Catalyst 8.7 the scaling improves a good bit in some games (Lost Planet was noted).


First if CF don't buy P45 that 8x8x is a pain in the butt, had one , gave it back if the title isn't GPU dependant like COD4 you don't see a difference but try to play Crisis , on 1680*1050 i had 27 FPS HIGH now i have 42 , and i just changed boards , i saw a review of this , if you want CF go for the Rampage , it's an awesome board, This is my CF setup of two 4870 on a Rampage Formula http://img363.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf3447yq3.jpg ; http://img182.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf3442ka3.jpg
As for the Scaling, get an 4870, the price difference isn't as big and TBH even CF won't kill you 1680*1050 is maybe too low for CF 4870 but what the heck, I'm living just once and i want to have a propper AA + AF Fun ! Hell Yeah
Eh, I think I'll stick with another HD 4850 if I go Crossfire.


In case of RAID , it's usefull if you don't like waiting, installing games from images on HDD is a matter of 2 - 5 minutes, loadings are fast but .. someone can live without it. If you wan't to try something buy Two Velociraptors and put them intro RAID 0
Like I said I would probably just buy another Raptor, as they're relatively cheap now so it wouldn't be a big price point for a significant performance increase (I would hope).


As for the CPU, TBH i don't know if you like to OC the hell of them go for those 8400, if no do as I did, Q9450 od if you can get a cheap Q9550, 3,4 GHz Quad in a multicore application is a wrecker !
I'm almost tempted to just grab an E8500 and overclock it to the max, but I know at some points doing the things I do I'll suffer without a quad.


As for the case, i had Aurora 3D 570 From Gigabyte, Beauthifull case but it had it's weaknesses
After a vouple of cases i found Stacker to be an ultimate case, very much variability, Lian LI P80 is Beauthifull without doubt, but the ability to reverse ATX in the stacker bought my heart ad as you see from the VGA pic there is lot of room even with two 9.5" Cards with propper cooling
The stacker from my point of view doesn't need modding but i don't like neons, collorfull grills and so on. My Green Red Blue LED Tagan is driving me crazy
I'll look into those, but I feel I may have to go ask in the Case board here on XtremeSystems to get more advice.

[YMAA]

Silverstone TJ07 or TJ09.

[Lethal1ty]

To get 4ghz you need a mobo that can reach fsb500. Stick with a q9450@3.6 I think an x48 would better suit this upgrade rather than a P45.

4850CF should be more than enough power at that resolution. I have the problem of trying to play games, especially Crysis, at 1920*1200 with a single 88ultra and a dual core =(

[ExodusC]

Silverstone TJ07 or TJ09.
That Silverstone TJ07 is actually pretty sexy, and it looks like it would accommodate water cooling very well. It doesn't seem like you can hide wires beneath the motherboard tray without some modding though, which is one thing I would have liked.


To get 4ghz you need a mobo that can reach fsb500. Stick with a q9450@3.6 I think an x48 would better suit this upgrade rather than a P45.
Honestly I'd love to be able to get a Q9450 to 4.0GHz. Around how high do Q9450s clock, motherboard FSB walls aside? What about x48 boards, are there any cheap ones that could even hit 500 FSB?


4850CF should be more than enough power at that resolution. I have the problem of trying to play games, especially Crysis, at 1920*1200 with a single 88ultra and a dual core =(
Yes, I'm just trying to see if an HD 4850 Crossfire setup is justified by the $400 I would have to pay for the additional HD 4850 and a motherboard.

[Lethal1ty]

Honestly I'd love to be able to get a Q9450 to 4.0GHz. Around how high do Q9450s clock, motherboard FSB walls aside? What about x48 boards, are there any cheap ones that could even hit 500 FSB?
This would be better answered by someone in the oc section as I don't have any personal experience with fsb walls. Although I can imagine that the q9450 is only limited by the fsb wall provided that you have adequate cooling to reach those higher speeds.

[silent-circuit]

Frys.com has the Antec P180B for $40 AR + shipping. Depending where you're located (shipping costs, taxes) you could come out with a very nice case for ~$55. I miss my P180B. It is not all that great for watercooling, though.