Best Setting over Asus M3A & Phenom 9850?

[ganfye]

Dear Expert here;

I had just changed my motherboard and a CPU recently... And this is my first time get a Quard Core CPU and a Asus motherboard since the last motherboard are from Gigabyte at 2006 with AMD Athlon 3800+ (T_T).

I have 3 harddisk 160GB X2 SATA 2 and one 80GB SATA 1 (Primary HDD 160GB SATA 2 and all formated as NTFS)
A normal Pioneer DVD-RW ROM
4X 1GB RAM (DDR2-800)
Asus EN8800GT 512MB
My OS was Vista Ultimate
Asus Arctic Square CPU Cooling fan.

After changed the motherboard [Asus M3A] and CPU [AMD Phenom 9850 BE] I found out that my current system are slower then before the old one, I was wondering what I had configured wrong... T_T, so below I had few question about my system hope Expert here can help me out... T_T. I even updated all necessary update can be found and bois updates, but still cannot get back even the old system performance...

1. In old system my primary HDD was only 80GB SATA 1, now changed a new (actually also old, just as backup HDD before) SATA 2 160GB HDD, I tested to copy from my backup documents of total 10GB files, its took almost 1.5X more time slower then old HDD, with no others applications running. Was that something to do with the SATA Controller? now was IDE in BIOS SATA Storage configuration, before not sure, cause I'm not touching BIOS too much at that time.

2. I had use CPUZ and Lavalys Everest software to monitor my system temperature, but I found out that my CPU are suppose original from factory are 2.5MHz and multiplier of 12.5x, in CPUZ and EVEREST, its only shows that I have 1250.1MHz with multiplier of 6.25x...??? T_T What had I done wrong?

3. This was first time I saw my ram in Ganged mode... whats that mean?, Tried to goolged a lot but can found a understand definition of it. When I first install with default BIOS of the mobo, its shows Unganged memory, after update BIOS until the latest now 0901, its became Ganged, my question is what will be the effect? Which one are better?

4 At the end I think all this above have to deal with the BIOS setting right? But what is the best setting? Can any expert share / help me?

Below are my system summary from EVEREST...



Field Value
Computer
Computer Type ACPI x86-based PC
Operating System Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate
OS Service Pack Service Pack 1
Internet Explorer 7.0.6001.18000
DirectX DirectX 10.0
Computer Name CHARLIESEAH-PC (KF Charlie Seah's Desktop)
User Name Charlie Seah
Logon Domain CharlieSeah-PC
Date / Time 2008-06-24 / 15:02

Motherboard
CPU Type QuadCore AMD Phenom Black Edition 9850, 2500 MHz (12.5 x 200)
Motherboard Name Asus M3A (3 PCI, 2 PCI-E x1, 1 PCI-E x16, 4 DDR2 DIMM, Audio, Gigabit LAN)
Motherboard Chipset AMD 770, AMD K10
System Memory 3328 MB (DDR2 SDRAM)
DIMM1 1 GB DDR2-800 DDR2 SDRAM (5-5-5-18 @ 400 MHz) (4-4-4-12 @ 266 MHz) (3-3-3-9 @ 200 MHz)
DIMM2 1 GB DDR2-800 DDR2 SDRAM (5-5-5-18 @ 400 MHz) (4-4-4-12 @ 266 MHz) (3-3-3-9 @ 200 MHz)
DIMM3: Corsair XMS2 CM2X1024-6400 1 GB DDR2-800 DDR2 SDRAM (5-5-5-18 @ 400 MHz) (4-4-4-13 @ 270 MHz)
DIMM4: Corsair XMS2 CM2X1024-6400 1 GB DDR2-800 DDR2 SDRAM (5-5-5-18 @ 400 MHz) (4-4-4-13 @ 270 MHz)
BIOS Type AMI (05/12/08)

Display
Video Adapter NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT (512 MB)
Video Adapter NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT (512 MB)
3D Accelerator nVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT
Monitor HP w2207 [22" LCD] (CND7352P7B)

Multimedia
Audio Adapter Realtek ALC883 @ ATI SB600 - High Definition Audio Controller

Storage
IDE Controller AMD PCI IDE Controller
IDE Controller AMD SATA Controller(Native IDE Mode)
Storage Controller Microsoft iSCSI Initiator
Disk Drive Generic USB CF Reader USB Device
Disk Drive Generic USB MS Reader USB Device
Disk Drive Generic USB SD Reader USB Device
Disk Drive Generic USB xD/SM Reader USB Device
Disk Drive Maxtor 6L160M0 ATA Device (160 GB, 7200 RPM, SATA)
Disk Drive Maxtor 6V080E0 ATA Device (80 GB, 7200 RPM, SATA-II)
Disk Drive WDC WD1600YS-18SHB2 ATA Device (149 GB, IDE)
Optical Drive PIONEER DVD-RW DVR-112 ATA Device (DVD+R9:10x, DVD-R9:10x, DVD+RW:18x/8x, DVD-RW:16x/6x, DVD-RAM:12x, DVD-ROM:16x, CD:40x/32x/40x DVD+RW/DVD-RW/DVD-RAM)
SMART Hard Disks Status OK

Partitions
C: (NTFS) 152584 MB (105984 MB free)
D: (NTFS) 78159 MB (31185 MB free)
E: (NTFS) 156331 MB (115449 MB free)
Total Size 378.0 GB (246.7 GB free)

Input
Keyboard Logitech HID-Compliant Keyboard
Mouse Logitech HID-compliant Cordless Mouse

Network
Primary IP Address 192.168.1.200
Primary MAC Address 00-1E-8C-65-30-0E
Network Adapter Atheros L1 Gigabit Ethernet 10/100/1000Base-T Controller (192.168.1.200)

Peripherals
Printer Adobe PDF
Printer HP LaserJet 2420 PCL 5
Printer Microsoft Office Document Image Writer
Printer Microsoft XPS Document Writer
Printer Send To OneNote 2007
USB1 Controller ATI SB600 - OCHI USB Controller
USB1 Controller ATI SB600 - OCHI USB Controller
USB1 Controller ATI SB600 - OCHI USB Controller
USB1 Controller ATI SB600 - OCHI USB Controller
USB1 Controller ATI SB600 - OCHI USB Controller
USB2 Controller ATI SB600 - EHCI USB 2.0 Controller
USB Device Generic USB Hub
USB Device Microsoft LifeCam VX-1000
USB Device Microsoft LifeCam VX-1000.
USB Device Unknown Device
USB Device USB Composite Device
USB Device USB Composite Device
USB Device USB Human Interface Device
USB Device USB Human Interface Device
USB Device USB Mass Storage Device

DMI
DMI BIOS Vendor American Megatrends Inc.
DMI BIOS Version 0901
DMI System Manufacturer System manufacturer
DMI System Product System Product Name
DMI System Version System Version
DMI System Serial Number System Serial Number
DMI System UUID 40FA9748-6D80DC11-93EC001E-8C65300E
DMI Motherboard Manufacturer ASUSTeK Computer INC.
DMI Motherboard Product M3A
DMI Motherboard Version Rev 1.xx
DMI Motherboard Serial Number MB-1234567890
DMI Chassis Manufacturer Chassis Manufacture
DMI Chassis Version Chassis Version
DMI Chassis Serial Number Chassis Serial Number
DMI Chassis Asset Tag Asset-1234567890
DMI Chassis Type Desktop Case


Very thanks in advances....

[informal]

Hi there :)

I'm hardly an expert you are looking for ,but i will try to help out.

First can you tell us what system you had before you upgraded to M3A+Phenom combo?
1)It is probably due to SB600 chip on the motherboard.Did you try to install your Operating system in AHCI mode?If not,you'll have to re-install your OS again :(.I see you posted here (http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/724443/+0#entry18142670) (i searched the google for ASUS M3A AHCI :) ).I agree with their suggestions,you need to reinstall with the F6 option and try to get the SATA drivers for the AHCI mode(of course you need to set AHCI mode in BIOS prior to installation of the OS).

2)Don't worry about this,it's called CoolNQuiet technology and it lowers the CPU clock and voltage in WIndows so that it runs,err,cooler and more quiet :).The chip will go to 2.5Ghz as soon as you put some stress to your system.Please verify this by running some benchmark that loads all 4 cores and watch what CPU-z reports during this tests(should be 2500Mhz across all 4 cores).You can turn off CnQ in BIOS.All 4 cores will then work @2.5Ghz.

3)Unganged is a bit faster but ganged might get you higher overclock(if you OC tho).Also i think ganged is better for 1066Mhz compatibility with RAM modules that support this clock.Anyway,ganged Vs unganged is just a few %,which you will notice in singlethread apps where unganged is a bit faster,but nothing earth shattering.Clock your ram as high as possible and you'll get most of your system regardless which mode you use.

4)I would set:
CnQ off
Ram mode 800,ganged(if unganged doesn't work properly,if it does then unganged) cas 4-4-4-18-24
CPU you can left it at default but AFAIK you can get at least 2800Mhz on the cores and 2200Mhz on the Northbridge with near stock volts-you need to experiment on this.
HDD mode :AHCI ,but you'll need to re install your OS for this....
All spread spectrums OFF

Also please note that temperature readouts from this motherboard are wrong as it shows awfully high temps in BIOS and in some applications(speedfan etc.).Feel your CPU heatsink and if it is mildly warm under full load your temps are fine.Make sure your CPU cooler fits nicely on the CPU itself and that you have termal compound applied correctly.

Hope this helped a bit :).
Cheers

EDIT:
Here (http://www.wikihow.com/Install-Ahci-Support-for-Ati-Sb600-Sata-Controllers-on-Existing-Windows-Installations) you can see the procedure(a "hack" job) that might allow you to install OS with HDDs/controller in AHCI mod.Please try this if everything else fails.Good luck.

[ganfye]

Hi there :)

I'm hardly an expert you are looking for ,but i will try to help out.

First can you tell us what system you had before you upgraded to M3A+Phenom combo?
1)It is probably due to SB600 chip on the motherboard.Did you try to install your Operating system in AHCI mode?If not,you'll have to re-install your OS again :(.I see you posted here (http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/724443/+0#entry18142670) (i searched the google for ASUS M3A AHCI :) ).I agree with their suggestions,you need to reinstall with the F6 option and try to get the SATA drivers for the AHCI mode(of course you need to set AHCI mode in BIOS prior to installation of the OS).

2)Don't worry about this,it's called CoolNQuiet technology and it lowers the CPU clock and voltage in WIndows so that it runs,err,cooler and more quiet :).The chip will go to 2.5Ghz as soon as you put some stress to your system.Please verify this by running some benchmark that loads all 4 cores and watch what CPU-z reports during this tests(should be 2500Mhz across all 4 cores).You can turn off CnQ in BIOS.All 4 cores will then work @2.5Ghz.

3)Unganged is a bit faster but ganged might get you higher overclock(if you OC tho).Also i think ganged is better for 1066Mhz compatibility with RAM modules that support this clock.Anyway,ganged Vs unganged is just a few %,which you will notice in singlethread apps where unganged is a bit faster,but nothing earth shattering.Clock your ram as high as possible and you'll get most of your system regardless which mode you use.

4)I would set:
CnQ off
Ram mode 800,ganged(if unganged doesn't work properly,if it does then unganged) cas 4-4-4-18-24
CPU you can left it at default but AFAIK you can get at least 2800Mhz on the cores and 2200Mhz on the Northbridge with near stock volts-you need to experiment on this.
HDD mode :AHCI ,but you'll need to re install your OS for this....
All spread spectrums OFF

Also please note that temperature readouts from this motherboard are wrong as it shows awfully high temps in BIOS and in some applications(speedfan etc.).Feel your CPU heatsink and if it is mildly warm under full load your temps are fine.Make sure your CPU cooler fits nicely on the CPU itself and that you have termal compound applied correctly.

Hope this helped a bit :).
Cheers

EDIT:
Here (http://www.wikihow.com/Install-Ahci-Support-for-Ati-Sb600-Sata-Controllers-on-Existing-Windows-Installations) you can see the procedure(a "hack" job) that might allow you to install OS with HDDs/controller in AHCI mod.Please try this if everything else fails.Good luck.

Thanks a lots for help and sorry for late reply, cause I only can manage to get back INTERNET today... T_T (Stupid Malaysia ISP)

1. I had tried to re-install the OS, but after I switch to AHCI mode in BIOS setting and boot from CDROM, for Vista I didn't see anything related to F6 keys and even I try to click on F6 continuously, nothing happen, and when after the black and white screen finish, its kept on "Loading..." for the last 1 hour... T_T, had been tried 2~3 times the same.... even cannot be re-install... How? By the way, I don't have any Floppy drive in my system, can I use my thumb drive with formated FAT32? (for the AHCI-RAID driver installation (F6)). In Asus mobo CD, I found there is serveral chipset drivers? which one shall I use if I wanted to re-install? [ AHCI_RAID / AHCI_SBSETUp / RAID_Driver / RD580_SB600_Drv ]?

2. Ok understand! ^^ Thanks for clearing the cloud for this ^^

3. Hmm... ok so its only few % diff, no big deal ^^, then for me, mine are just old DDR2800, I'll just change to un-ganged lol, thanks also.

4. But how to set the "cas 4-4-4-18-24"? I'm really noob in this case, sorry... T_T

Really thanks for above advise, for the temperature, I had ask a lot of people also, they says its quick normal in my open space environment here (hot hot Malaysia and no aircond room ^^) ^^ my mobo show avg (34~37 dgr), cpu show avg (45~55 dgr), and GPU show avg (57~65 dgr)... so I guess I cannot play OC a lot at this moment, until I get my aircond in my room fixed lol or I have to spend some money on liquid colling...( But I hear that the "motor" of the liquid cooler need to change every 3 months... T_T. )

I really appreciated your help and really sorry about my English and my knowledge on hardware are limited...

[informal]

Hi there,don't worry about your English,it's good :).

Anyhow did you try the solution i linked in my edit?It's here:
http://www.wikihow.com/Install-Ahci-Support-for-Ati-Sb600-Sata-Controllers-on-Existing-Windows-Installations

1) Yes you can use your thumb drive ,at least i think.As for the drivers to use,i'm not sure,it must be one of the two that contains AHCI in its name.Try to follow instructions from the upper link to try to get your current OS without re-installation to support AHCI.

2) no problem,glad to help :)

3)Yep, just a few %.Try unganged ,if it works it's great.If not ,you loose a small %,maybe 2-3% tops.

4)In BIOS,find the ADVANCED then Jumper Free Config.Now go to DRAM Configuration and set Dram mode(667 or 800) and Memory timings(Cas 5-5-5-18-24) manually.Also set the 2T Mode to ON.

You can press F4 taster on your keyboard to get ADvanced Tuning options that are usually hidden from view in BIOS.This will allow you to chose from more advanced settings,when you decide to OC.

Good luck :)

[ganfye]

Hi there,don't worry about your English,it's good :).

Anyhow did you try the solution i linked in my edit?It's here:
http://www.wikihow.com/Install-Ahci-Support-for-Ati-Sb600-Sata-Controllers-on-Existing-Windows-Installations

1) Yes you can use your thumb drive ,at least i think.As for the drivers to use,i'm not sure,it must be one of the two that contains AHCI in its name.Try to follow instructions from the upper link to try to get your current OS without re-installation to support AHCI.

2) no problem,glad to help :)

3)Yep, just a few %.Try unganged ,if it works it's great.If not ,you loose a small %,maybe 2-3% tops.

4)In BIOS,find the ADVANCED then Jumper Free Config.Now go to DRAM Configuration and set Dram mode(667 or 800) and Memory timings(Cas 5-5-5-18-24) manually.Also set the 2T Mode to ON.

You can press F4 taster on your keyboard to get ADvanced Tuning options that are usually hidden from view in BIOS.This will allow you to chose from more advanced settings,when you decide to OC.

Good luck :)


Dear Informal;

Thanks and appreciated on your fast reply...

This whole morning ^^ (My time) I had tried for the point 1 (IDE - AHCI) with link
http://www.wikihow.com/Install-Ahci-Support-for-Ati-Sb600-Sata-Controllers-on-Existing-Windows-Installations
and others like enable the msahci.sys in vista, both does not apply to it, it come with BSOD very fast follow by the restart also very fast lol....
So I decided to give up one it at this moment and try with re-installation for the whole OS again... So this time I had tried to re-assemble the whole hardwares... change another clean and new 160GB S-ATA 2 HDD and load only one HDD, and change the BIOS to AHCI, first boot to CDROM... Vista Setup screen load... there are no F6 such stuff... its continue loading... and when reach the green progress bar "windows loading..." it doesn't go futher... (this had been hanged for more then 20Minutes+ for few times test... T_T
:shrug:Getting a bit desperate...:ROTF: final decision ^^ plug in back previous 160GB with installed OS and just run in IDE... lol

3. I had try to switch between Ganged and UnGanged mode with playing Crysis... nothing special / changes different, so now I just leave it UnGanged lol... changed with point 4, so far so good, much better now after configured Cas 5-5-5-18-24 in Memory Timing Crysis now play with more smoother :cool:

Since I don't have a good colling system and my room is just open space underground with surrounded temperature of 29~32 dgr, I only tried a bit of tuning on CPU with 14 Multiplier and 210 FSB, so far so good lol, only the temperature fly up to 60 dgr... :p: for the last half and hour so... hope it'll not burn off hahahaha:D

But for sure now my system are faster then previous old system now even without OC ^^, except for files copying, transfer, moving etc... But anyway, really thanks a lots again and really appreciated a lots on your guide, explanation and suggestion. I do learn something for this.

Additional question here, I plan to change a new graphic card soon and I had look at NViDia 9800 GTX since the price is start dropping ^^. Would it be best I change to a ATI GPU since my system mostly now are AMD? If so any nice graphic card you recommend? Because I'm not really a big fan with ATI GPU at this moment, for the pass few years I only chose NviDIa card...

[informal]

Hi again,ganfye :)

I'm glad i could help you a bit ;).

Anyhow,very nice clock you got on your CPU,some are trying to get to 2800Mhz and they fail,so congratulations for OCing it to 2.94Ghz :D.

AS for the IDE/AHCI thing,i think you should go for IDE (for the time being) and try later to install a new OS with AHCI drivers.Only file transfers will be slower,everything else(games,audio/video enc./decod. etc. will be faster).


Additional question here, I plan to change a new graphic card soon and I had look at NViDia 9800 GTX since the price is start dropping ^^. Would it be best I change to a ATI GPU since my system mostly now are AMD? If so any nice graphic card you recommend? Because I'm not really a big fan with ATI GPU at this moment, for the pass few years I only chose NviDIa card...
I think you wouldn't want to pass the AMD(ATi) latest Radeon 48xx series of cards :D.The Radeon 4850 is faster than NV 9800GTX(+) and takes so little performance drop once you crank up AA and AF that it is a pure shame if you chose NV over new Radeons.Also ,new Radeon 4850 cost around 190$(and the price is dropping) so it costs the same as Nv 9800GTX while being faster and quieter card!
If you decide to go NV 9800GTX,it is a god card too,but little obsolete now that Radeons are out on the market.I would buy Radeon 4850 over NV 9800GTX ,any time of the day or night :D.
Anyway,judge for yourself what new radeons can do in games.Here are 2 of the best reviews for both Radeons and NV 9800GTX:
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3341 (both Radeon 4870&4850 included)
http://techreport.com/articles.x/14990 (both Radeon 4870&4850 included)

Radeon 4850 competes and wins over 9800GTX(+)
Radeon 4870 competes and wins/ties with GTX260,even matching and beating 2x more expensive GTX280 in a number of games!!

Enjoy :D

[boogle]

Just a clarification on Ganged / Unchanged, you've got it the wrong way round. Phenom has 2 64bit memory controllers, allowing for dual-channel operation. There are two modes that the controllers can work in:

Ganged: The two controllers work in tandem to create a 128bit controller, theoretically doubling the peak bandwidth. However, all data is read in 128bit chunks, so therefore you can easily waste bandwidth and only 1 request can be handled at a time.

Unganged: The two controllers work seperately, the peak bandwidth will be lower, but not massively so. Unganged is very useful when running multiple applications / multiple threads since two requests can be handled at the same time (two 64bit requests, independent of each other).

As for ATI, don't forget that they optimise heavily for benchmark games, and other games tend to be somewhat ignored. Means Radeons look great in reviews, but may not work quite so well in lesser known games. CrossFire takes this over-optimisation to the extreme imho.

[ganfye]

Hi again,ganfye :)

I'm glad i could help you a bit ;).

Anyhow,very nice clock you got on your CPU,some are trying to get to 2800Mhz and they fail,so congratulations for OCing it to 2.94Ghz :D.

AS for the IDE/AHCI thing,i think you should go for IDE (for the time being) and try later to install a new OS with AHCI drivers.Only file transfers will be slower,everything else(games,audio/video enc./decod. etc. will be faster).


I think you wouldn't want to pass the AMD(ATi) latest Radeon 48xx series of cards :D.The Radeon 4850 is faster than NV 9800GTX(+) and takes so little performance drop once you crank up AA and AF that it is a pure shame if you chose NV over new Radeons.Also ,new Radeon 4850 cost around 190$(and the price is dropping) so it costs the same as Nv 9800GTX while being faster and quieter card!
If you decide to go NV 9800GTX,it is a god card too,but little obsolete now that Radeons are out on the market.I would buy Radeon 4850 over NV 9800GTX ,any time of the day or night :D.
Anyway,judge for yourself what new radeons can do in games.Here are 2 of the best reviews for both Radeons and NV 9800GTX:
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3341 (both Radeon 4870&4850 included)
http://techreport.com/articles.x/14990 (both Radeon 4870&4850 included)

Radeon 4850 competes and wins over 9800GTX(+)
Radeon 4870 competes and wins/ties with GTX260,even matching and beating 2x more expensive GTX280 in a number of games!!

Enjoy :D


Just a clarification on Ganged / Unchanged, you've got it the wrong way round. Phenom has 2 64bit memory controllers, allowing for dual-channel operation. There are two modes that the controllers can work in:

Ganged: The two controllers work in tandem to create a 128bit controller, theoretically doubling the peak bandwidth. However, all data is read in 128bit chunks, so therefore you can easily waste bandwidth and only 1 request can be handled at a time.

Unganged: The two controllers work seperately, the peak bandwidth will be lower, but not massively so. Unganged is very useful when running multiple applications / multiple threads since two requests can be handled at the same time (two 64bit requests, independent of each other).

As for ATI, don't forget that they optimise heavily for benchmark games, and other games tend to be somewhat ignored. Means Radeons look great in reviews, but may not work quite so well in lesser known games. CrossFire takes this over-optimisation to the extreme imho.

Dear informal;

Thanks for coming back on additional information on my additional question.
I just came back from work will my pc are still running on OC ^^ (but it no application running in front or in background even theme of my vista had set only to windows basic theme) lol, only things is when I came back I saw the temperature fly up to 70 dgr!!!:shocked: but no hanging yet lol until I open up 3 application (Photoshop, Acdsee, and Internet Explorer) then it give me bsod :clap::clap: lol... So now went back to default factory setting first as I'm not playing game yet lol... I wondering how long I still can use for this CPU lol...

Anyway I had looked at those review for the Radeon and NVidia, looks cheaper and performance statistic are higher... but boogle comments start to make me a bit doubtful... I just talk with my fren whom own a hardware shop, he'll get me a card to test at this Sunday, then I'll see how it perform and decide on it, but I still fell more safe on ATI where are under AMD, I believe it'll have same technology on it and will not create much conflict (estimate)...

Dear boogle,

Thanks for the additional Ganged and UN-Ganged setting, learn something again ^^...

And for gaming I'm not really good on gaming to be very honesty :p: so far I still only have 6 games installed in my pc (Crysis, Call 4 Duty 4, Las Vegas, Maple Story, Pangya and Silkroad online) so I'll test those 2 cards first (Radeon 4850 and NVidia 9800) on Sunday and see how they perfom with OC and my current hardware settings. Now I had tried OCed with this new system and play Crysis, its load faster and not much hanging but still a bit lagging with my current card (Asus EN8800GT) when video setting set all to "high". I don't believe its cause from CPU since new CPU had Quad core and OCed to 2.94 (now a bit scare I tweak back to 13x205=2665MHz wif 58 dgr as the temperature are really scary on 14x210 lol ...)... So its actually doesn't matter for me which card as I only played few games lol