No More PC-Only Games From Crytek?

[Philip_J_Fry]

http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/38372/No-More-PC-Only-Games-From-Crytek

In this interview with PC Play, Crytek boss Cevat Yerli drops the P-word:

PC Play: How do you estimate the current state of the PC gaming industry? Some say that it's only a matter of time when it's going to finally die-off, the others say that "the big one" is only getting its comeback pace.

Considering Crysis is a PC-exclusive title, what do you think of its market reception and its future? Skeptics would say that it's pretty risky going PC-exclusive with such a high-profile title.

Cevat Yerli: It is certainly. We are suffering currently from the huge piracy that is encompassing Crysis. We seem to lead the charts in piracy by a large margin, a chart leading that is not desirable. I believe that’s the core problem of PC Gaming, piracy. To the degree PC Gamers that pirate games inherently destroy the platform. Similar games on consoles sell factors of 4-5 more. It was a big lesson for us and I believe we wont have PC exclusives as we did with Crysis in future. We are going to support PC, but not exclusive anymore.

___

sad news :shakes:

[The0men]

I bought mine.

I knows theyre expensive. But it really is piracy killing the PC.

Sad because games are far better to play on PC than anything else.

[eric66]

as soon pc gaming dies all pirates will jump on consoles haha what do they think will happen to those pirates retirement ? i don't think so

[Warboy]

I bought mine, One of the many games I've bought. Halo 2 Vista, Crysis, All the need for speeds. and more.

[Calmatory]

Am I the only one who is really wanting that big companies move away from PC games? Sure there wouldn't be big titles as Crysis or Alan Wake, but more smaller and unique games with other approaches than graphics.

There are few types of games companies don't want to produce, since they take alot of time and are very risky. Games like Fallout-series won't sell nowadays, no matter how they are made. Games like NHL-series and NFS-series will sell, no matter how they are made. I'd personally take 10 years old Fallout II instead of ANY NHL-/NFS-series game.

[BulldogPO]

My Crysis came with GFX card.

[xlink]

i bought mine as well.

[Sr7]

as soon pc gaming dies all pirates will jump on consoles haha what do they think will happen to those pirates retirement ? i don't think so

True, but the bottom line is there is still the factor of losing your warranty when modding your console that many just plain aren't comfortable with.

The point is that console is so much more "user friendly" that the market is HUGE, and as a result, even if they ended up with the same percentage of piracy as in PC (very unlikely), it would *still* be a better money making venture for them than PC is. It's the sad truth.

[iddqd]

Their mistake was developing a game that can only be played by like 0.1% of all PC-owners. I honestly am not surprised that it's not selling well.

Besides that, why do we need the billionth uninspired generic sci-fi shooter?

[Sr7]

Their mistake was developing a game that can only be played by like 0.1% of all PC-owners. I honestly am not surprised that it's not selling well.

That's so ridiculous. Of the people who would be interested in playing Crysis, a good 90-95% could play it. They just don't get high settings.. boo hoo.

People have made forum posts about how they can put together a bargain $700 computer and play Crysis on high.

I don't get why everyone exaggerates so much.

[iddqd]

That's so ridiculous. Of the people who would be interested in playing Crysis, a good 90-95% could play it. They just don't get high settings.. boo hoo.

People have made forum posts about how they can put together a bargain $700 computer and play Crysis on high.

I don't get why everyone exaggerates so much.

You underestimate how many people have old/cheapass computers.

They can all play WoW, but not Crysis. Guess which developer is getting more money?

[TEDY]

lower the price and i'll buy an original.....not paying 40-50€ for a game, geeze.

[squilliam]

Prices are a bit too high for my tastes.

I don't usually buy my games right away anymore.
I will wait till I can get them for $30-40 on Amazon.
+I wasn't exactly interested in Crysis. Great game, no doubt, but it doesn't interest me (and I didn't pirate it).

If anything, I will download a game, try it out, and then buy it for around $30-40.

[Logos]

lower the price and i'll buy an original.....not paying 40-50€ for a game, geeze.

was that serious :confused: in case it was that means you are ready to play those games but not pay for them, and accept at the same time that developers spend their time and money just for you...you seem to be on this forum for a long time. I really hope your post was a joke, but you did not make it obvious. Piracy kills the industry, and we all know how gaming performs on PCs compared to bloody consoles. So the worse that could happen is that guys (like you?) keep praising piracy. The result would be a faster than expected disappearance of PC gaming, watercooling, overclocking, and finally the end for a forum like this one here. Good job!!!:mad: :mad: :mad:

[togaman5000]

You underestimate how many people have old/cheapass computers.

They can all play WoW, but not Crysis. Guess which developer is getting more money?

You can go ahead and pirate WoW, try to see how far that gets you. Blizzard makes the vast majority of their money off of subscriptions; comparing WoW to Crysis is apples/oranges kind of deal.

People dismiss their criminal activities by blaming it on the fact that a game is cutting edge. So what you're pretty much saying is that if it pushes the envelope and improves gaming, it's fine to pirate? That makes no sense, and is very destructive (as you can tell by the above interview) to the industry as a whole. Pirate games, take companies profits, and the company will not return to PC gaming.

So way to go, pirate your games, kill the industry, and screw us all over.

[Blauhung]

I bought mine, only games I really ever even think about getting the easy way:p: are old ones that have already made most their money. I know it's a lame excuse, but it works for me.

[iddqd]

You can go ahead and pirate WoW, try to see how far that gets you. Blizzard makes the vast majority of their money off of subscriptions; comparing WoW to Crysis is apples/oranges kind of deal.

People dismiss their criminal activities by blaming it on the fact that a game is cutting edge. So what you're pretty much saying is that if it pushes the envelope and improves gaming, it's fine to pirate? That makes no sense, and is very destructive (as you can tell by the above interview) to the industry as a whole. Pirate games, take companies profits, and the company will not return to PC gaming.

So way to go, pirate your games, kill the industry, and screw us all over.
1) There are a lot of "third-party" servers for WoW, you do realize that, right?

2) Besides, blaming piracy is retarded. If anything, piracy helps you gain more marketshare.

3) I knew someone was going to be a smartass and mention that WoW has a subscription model. Now that you've gone through the trouble of mentioning it, I'm going to mention Starcraft.

[Scubar]

You dont hear Valve complaining about it. Their HL series of games have sold extremely well on the PC because they have created a fun good looking game.

So long as Crytek do seperate development for Consoles and PCs. If they try to develop for console and port to the PC you can bet their games will receive a very cold reception.

[Logos]

if there's one thing piracy does, it's emulate more piracy, and leave your bloody wallet safe...oh god, spending money, what a shame!!! Discovering hackers and pirates are not hackers and pirates, but industry helpers!!! WOW :ROTF:

don't worry, more and more editors are selling their products through online companies like Steam (valve)...hope this at least will keep well intentioned people like you away from gaming once for all, even if that means the end of retail versions, doesn't matter.

[iddqd]

:clap: :clap: :clap: talking retarded...:D :D :D

if there's one thing piracy does, it's emulate more piracy, and leave your bloody wallet safe...oh god, spending money, what a shame!!! Discovering hackers and pirates are not hackers and pirates, but industry helpers!!! WOW :ROTF:

don't worry, more and more editors are selling their products through online companies like Steam (valve)...hope this at least will keep well intentioned people like you away from gaming once for all, even if that means the end of retail versions, doesn't matter.

I hope you realize that piracy is on of the biggest reasons behind Microsoft's success.

Also: Ahead (Nero), Adobe, Norton, etc.. all became massively popular because they were so easy to pirate.

But of course, you're the armchair market analyst here at XS, you certainly know more than everyone else, especially people who built their business around this.

[xlink]

I bought mine, only games I really ever even think about getting the easy way:p: are old ones that have already made most their money. I know it's a lame excuse, but it works for me.

only games I consider... well they aren't sold in stores anymore.

that's my excuse, I couldn't find them if I tried.

then again all the games I pirated I technically owned but had stolen from me when I was 9. I'm just reliving the SNES era...

[iddqd]

only games I consider... well they aren't sold in stores anymore.

that's my excuse, I couldn't find them if I tried.

then again all the games I pirated I technically owned but had stolen from me when I was 9. I'm just reliving the SNES era...

A lot of old stuff like that is abandonware in all but letter (or sometimes legally abandonware too). Either way, nobody's going to care that you're "stealing" a SNES rom.

[Logos]

I hope you realize that piracy is on of the biggest reasons behind Microsoft's success.
I don't think I will answer that, this is just too funny sorry, at least you're good at making this thread entertaining. You're just trying to conceal your lack of honesty behind pseudo marketshare considerations. WHEN THE ONLY THING THAT REALLY MATTERS TO YOU IS NOT TO SPEND YOUR MONEY...you're making yourself ridiculous.

[adamsleath]

wot stops dudes burning dvd's for consoles?
surely piracy is in consoles aswell :rolleyes:
i've noticed the nerd boys at blockbuster renting console games.
probly harder to copy ps3/xbox360's but where there's a pirate there is a way.
not that i would know; the only 'console' i ever had was an atari in the 80's.

better keep some pc games, or else pirates will totally flog consoles aswell :lol:

[iddqd]

I don't think I will answer that, this is just too funny sorry, at least you're good at making this thread entertaining. You're just trying to conceal your lack of honesty behind pseudo marketshare considerations. WHEN THE ONLY THING THAT REALLY MATTERS TO YOU IS NOT TO SPEND YOUR MONEY

Why are you attacking me personally? I'm a model citizen that pays for all his software and content legitimately. You should aspire to be as righteous as I am.

[Logos]

Why are you attacking me personally? I'm a model citizen that pays for all his software and content legitimately. You should aspire to be as righteous as I am.


cry me a river...:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: I'm leaving this thread now. You're shooting yourself in the foot in every other post that you send here :rolleyes:

[awdrifter]

This is no big deal, it's not like they are not developing games for PC anymore. If a company makes a game for the Xbox 360, it's probably going to be ported to the PC later on.

[stocius]

This is no big deal, it's not like they are not developing games for PC anymore. If a company makes a game for the Xbox 360, it's probably going to be ported to the PC later on.
Only too true.

[Periander6]

This is no big deal, it's not like they are not developing games for PC anymore. If a company makes a game for the Xbox 360, it's probably going to be ported to the PC later on.

Soon they won't even bother with that. Except for MMOs, the funding has dried up for PC gaming. No one likes having their hard work stolen by thieves.

[LexDiamonds]

Also, who the hell wants a PC port? I remember after playing Oblivion for about an hour, my biggest gripe was OMG, they XBoxed my game!!11!. I am not a fan of this trend, but piracy has left developers no choice. Crysis could very well be the last "blockbuster" pc only title.

I used to be the worlds biggest pirate.. then about 4 years ago, I just started ponying up the 40-50$ for games I really wanted to play. No hassle with cracks, future updates work well, and it helps the deleloper stay afloat. When I concider I spend 600$ on graphics upgrades about every year, buying 3 or 4 nice titles doesnt seem so bad.

[iddqd]

Blockbuster? More like Lackluster, amirite?

[JamesBong420]

all i know is if PC gaming dies... i will start to pirate console and teach everyone and there mothers how to mod them as well. :cool: :p: :yepp: :rofl:

[stocius]

all i know is if PC gaming dies... i will start to pirate console and teach everyone and there mothers how to mod them as well. :cool: :p: :yepp: :rofl:
I'm with you. I modded an Xbox with a hard drive (not too hard) just kept saving games after renting or borrowing, voila thousands of dollars saved

[awdrifter]

Soon they won't even bother with that. Except for MMOs, the funding has dried up for PC gaming. No one likes having their hard work stolen by thieves.

Most company still make money from PC ports, as long as they do, we'll keep getting ports.

[Syn.]

That's so ridiculous. Of the people who would be interested in playing Crysis, a good 90-95% could play it. They just don't get high settings.. boo hoo.

People have made forum posts about how they can put together a bargain $700 computer and play Crysis on high.

I don't get why everyone exaggerates so much.

Same way that people exaggerate about Vista. Sheep will follow other sheep even if that means jumping off a cliff.

Crysis can be played perfectly fine on most systems, especially all systems here in XS community. However when the only selling point of a game is super-duper graphics that can only run on a small margin of computers then the sales are going to suffer. If you dont deliver on your main selling point none will buy what you are selling. If they hyped up the storyline and gameplay more then graphics that would make people accept lower settings for sake of gameplay. Just look at GTAIV its gameplay/storyline is one of the best which makes people turn a blind eye to lower frame rate and low resolution textures.

[Logos]

as long as Linux is not ported to consoles...hey, it's one of my favorite PC games, hope Shuttleworth and co keep developing for the PC :D hey btw heard the latest Ubuntu thing could be launched from inside Windows, that's good news for the PC gaming industry, well as long as Compiz hasn't been ported to Windows, there's a future!:D or may be an XBox version, in a near future...wow. Then the most motivated will most likely pirate Compiz/XBox ...oh no that would be too great...

[XS2K]

was that serious :confused: in case it was that means you are ready to play those games but not pay for them, and accept at the same time that developers spend their time and money just for you...you seem to be on this forum for a long time. I really hope your post was a joke, but you did not make it obvious. Piracy kills the industry, and we all know how gaming performs on PCs compared to bloody consoles. So the worse that could happen is that guys (like you?) keep praising piracy. The result would be a faster than expected disappearance of PC gaming, watercooling, overclocking, and finally the end for a forum like this one here. Good job!!!:mad: :mad: :mad:


40-50 euros is ALOT in poor,developing countries where the piracy rate is at the highest level and now honestly why should I pay that much for a ported lackluster repetitive game?Developers of a good game get 10x the money they spend on production ATLEAST....
I have a few original games bought by me (not boundled) and I bought them because they excel at the multiplayer or they are groundbraking in some way...

[zerazax]

Crysis can be played by a good chunk of computers out there, but lets not forget this: the majority of people out there do not play on computers that are like those on XS. The majority out there want games that can be run even on latest notebooks, and Crysis will be hard to run on that at settings people find acceptable.

That, and the fact that the game was mostly a graphics/engine demo and was very lacking in gameplay. I bet a lot of pirates tried it out and found things they didnt like and never bought it anyways.

Plus, Crysis will not be the last PC blockbuster. Starcraft 2 is guaranteed to be a blockbuster, and guess what, so long as Valve and Blizzard keep making great PC titles, they will continue to be blockbusters. But what do they both have in common? *Gasp* Great gameplay with tech requirements that the average consumer can get a ton out of!

[Logos]

40-50 euros is ALOT in poor,developing countries where the piracy rate is at the highest level and now honestly why should I pay that much for a ported lackluster repetitive game?Developers of a good game get 10x the money they spend on production ATLEAST....
I have a few original games bought by me (not boundled) and I bought them because they excel at the multiplayer or they are groundbraking in some way...

gimme a good reason why any developer (a developer is a person ok???) would work for you, for free...oh god I forgot, developing countries...a good reason to pirate games when you live in the States or in Europe...You're probably copying to help the poor people down there in the third world...oh thank you!!!:up:

a better way to help would be to buy a couple of games + hardware, and send them to the kids down there who can't afford them...or would that still be too expensive for you?

[GAR]

as soon pc gaming dies all pirates will jump on consoles haha what do they think will happen to those pirates retirement ? i don't think so

True, Games should not cost more than $29.99 on any platform, thats what happens when games cost too much, people dont wanna pay for it, lower the prices and more people will buy them, simple as that.

[Logos]

True, Games should not cost more than $29.99 on any platform, thats what happens when games cost too much, people dont wanna pay for it, lower the prices and more people will buy them, simple as that.

console games are probably already pirated; hoping game developers for the PC will realize that. Actually the main reason why console games sell better then PC games is that consoles are much cheaper to buy than pcs.

Game prices have always been too expensive, I agree on that. You're talking 50 bucks in the States...we pay 50 euros (75 usd) here in Europe; worse, console games in Europe sell for 60 euros, and unlike PC games, console game prices never go down, even after two years. I saw a console version of SC2 sold for 60 euros 2 years after its date of release. I know all of that.

The only issue that remains is that I'm damned sure that as long as games will be copyable, even when they would cost 1 euro or 1 dollar, people will keep pirating them. it's purely a matter for those who pirate, of thinking that paying is not right, no matter what the price is. This has always existed, at all times, the gaming or pc industry has got nothing to do with this.

[Frank M]

lower the price and i'll buy an original.....not paying 40-50€ for a game, geeze.

I agree. Here, games are released for ~€50, sometimes even over €60.
I think they'd sell much more if they started at half price.


was that serious

:clap: :clap: :clap: talking retarded...:D :D :D

you're making yourself ridiculous.

I'm leaving this thread now. You're shooting yourself in the foot in every other post that you send here :rolleyes:

Are you trolling, flamebaiting, or just a moron by nature? :rolleyes:

The first post you attacked was about pricing. I think that's a pretty
valid point; and it isn't about piracy. I think it's ridiculous that a single
game costs about the same as my cpu; and my gpu was just 1.5× the
local release price of Crysis. Game prices are high. If they were priced
lower, I'm sure they'd sell a lot more and piracy would be much lower.

[Logos]

Are you trolling, flamebaiting, or just a moron by nature? :rolleyes:


are you born deaf or blind, or just extremely stupid by nature, or just faking to misunderstand my posts, and justify your love for piracy ? hey dude, are you also stealing cars when you can't afford one? Or are you too clumsy for that? Just playing mouse and click, hiding behind your desk?:D

[XS2K]

gimme a good reason why any developer (a developer is a person ok???) would work for you, for free...oh god I forgot, developing countries...a good reason to pirate games when you live in the States or in Europe...You're probably copying to help the poor people down there in the third world...oh thank you!!!:up:

a better way to help would be to buy a couple of games + hardware, and send them to the kids down there who can't afford them...or would that still be too expensive for you?

So Europe is a place where everything is all peechy from an economic point of view and there are no poor developing countries in it?hmm...
For example in the country where I live in with the average income (that is AVERAGE not minimum) a game represents ~15-20% of it and there aren't many working for the average income most of us are working for the minimum in which a game represents ~35% and there are other places where it's much worse,if they want to diminish the piracy they should start with this kind of countries.
Why should a developer work for me?Because I am me and I am adorable how about that?:shrug: :rolleyes:
Stealing cars?That's far from using pirated content.Why?
A:You don't find stolen cars in very large numbers on trackers and other places.
B:In most countries you can't be punished from using (not distributing) a pirated game, as opposed to stealing someone's car.
C:People stealing a car are faaaar less than the ones who use a pirated copy.
D:You don't need a driver's license for a game :)

Easy with the language.

[MikalCarbine]

I don't know why PC game developers complain about piracy so much, there are so many other creative ways to get by it, for example: Company of Heroes (the new patches at least) requires you to log in online before playing the game at all, which means registering an account with a legit cd-key. Sure this kills sales to the market of people who don't have internet access, but it'd be minuscule in comparison to those who do and to the figures of pirated copies

[Logos]

Easy with the language.

I'd say easy with the thinking...thinking that the rich are responsible for the poor to be poor; easy with jealousy, easy with not being able to produce or create anything...that's a whole, and that's a hole. That's the masses. Bye for good this time!

[deathman20]

That's so ridiculous. Of the people who would be interested in playing Crysis, a good 90-95% could play it. They just don't get high settings.. boo hoo.

People have made forum posts about how they can put together a bargain $700 computer and play Crysis on high.

I don't get why everyone exaggerates so much.

More like 75% could play it. The fact that alot of home systems are purchased PC'es with little to no dedicated GPU which makes it impossible.

I've had relatives come to me asking if they could play this on there system or if I could speed it up. Told them I can't, running at the lowest of resolutions, on the lowest of settings and it crawls. Felt bad for most of them because they play alot of other things nicely but couldn't with that game.

[3NZ0]

Games are very expensive, I'll give you that. This obviously translates into piracy of the said games.

However as a legitimate, fully paying user of console and pc hardware it makes me really angry to see so much pirating going on. This is then followed up by statements such as the one in the OP and the slow death of the pc gaming industry which I don't want to see.

The overall lower cost and ease of use of a console also means that the most computer illiterate user can pick one up and get playing. No hardware expenses (high end hardware), no driver or stability problems. It really is pick up and play.

An enormous amount is stacked up against the pc games industry, the console division is such a more profitable easier to programme for platform with a massive user base.

[DilTech]

Console developers have been feeling the sting of piracy as well. Only system not plagued with it presently is the PS3.

Every single xbox360 title has leaked on the net a week before release, and modding the 360 is childs play. Ontop of that, people just swap out the insides with a new console at walmart and return it so every time they get banned it costs MICROSOFT money! The wii had a modchip not even 3 months after launch as well.

[Frank M]

[...]

b&plzkthxby :)

reminds me of the rule:
"Don't argue with trolls - it means that they win."
So have fun, I'm not responding to that.

[Vryada]

are you born deaf or blind, or just extremely stupid by nature, or just faking to misunderstand my posts, and justify your love for piracy ? hey dude, are you also stealing cars when you can't afford one? Or are you too clumsy for that? Just playing mouse and click, hiding behind your desk?:D

Chill out dude. Not only you are taking this too personally, you also misunderstood almost all the comments you quoted, implying that they were pro-piracy (when they actually meant to be a balanced opinion of this matter).

[SturmoV]

Go back to $30 games and I'll be buying them on release but until then I'll keep waiting till they hit that price level before I make a purchase.

[Movieman]

I'd say easy with the thinking...thinking that the rich are responsible for the poor to be poor; easy with jealousy, easy with not being able to produce or create anything...that's a whole, and that's a hole. That's the masses. Bye for good this time!

Hello:
Seeing that your reasonably new here I'll be the nice polite friendly mod.
Please write a in a more friendly manner as we do try to be friends here.
Thank you for reading and understanding this well meant friendly message.;)

[agor]

pc gaming isnt dying
single player gaming is dying due to the fact that its 20+ years old
people like games where they can interact with each other, just look at WoW with more than 12mil subscribers paying 12$/month

the idea of singleplayer gaming is outdated

[Movieman]

pc gaming isnt dying
single player gaming is dying due to the fact that its 20+ years old
people like games where they can interact with each other, just look at WoW with more than 12mil subscribers paying 12$/month

the idea of singleplayer gaming is outdated

I don't know. I used to enjoy taking an hour with MS CFS and just blowing away planes.. Good stress releiver..
Especially when you modify the config files so that a WW2 P51 will do 750MPH and the 8-50 cal are hitting like they are 20mm...:rofl:

[jbartlett323]

pc gaming isnt dying
single player gaming is dying due to the fact that its 20+ years old
people like games where they can interact with each other, just look at WoW with more than 12mil subscribers paying 12$/month

the idea of singleplayer gaming is outdated

i don't buy that completly... maybe some only like multiplayer but personally i don't like em at all... always someone 2million times better than me who, no matter how much i practice, will undoubtedly stomp a mud hole is my ass every time i play... needless to say that is absolutly no fun whatsoever therefore i very rarely play multiplayer... now give me a good single player with decent AI and a compelling story line and i am immersed!! :yepp:

[xenolith]

Piracy leads to tight development budgets, which leads to high prices and low quality games, which leads to more piracy.

And until these hackers of the entitlement class find a new code of ethics, this downward spiral may eventually lead to the extinction of this great hobby as we know it today. :mad:

[Savuti]

It was inevitable that Crytek would eventually tap into the console market. Instead of blaming piracy, perhaps they can take cues from makers of games, Sims, WoW, Diablo, Starcraft, HL, ect, that not only been commercial success but have thrived in the PC gaming market.

[Syn.]

It was inevitable that Crytek would eventually tap into the console market. Instead of blaming piracy, perhaps they can take cues from makers of games, Sims, WoW, Diablo, Starcraft, HL, ect, that not only been commercial success but have thrived in the PC gaming market.

Why do people always dismiss everything that came before WOW, to be honest i like W3 better than WOW.

[Logos]

Piracy leads to tight development budgets, which leads to high prices and low quality games, which leads to more piracy.

And until these hackers of the entitlement class find a new code of ethics, this downward spiral may eventually lead to the extinction of this great hobby as we know it today. :mad:

at last; thanks for this post. Not to mention that I support it 100%.

[3NZ0]

Piracy leads to tight development budgets, which leads to high prices and low quality games, which leads to more piracy.

And until these hackers of the entitlement class find a new code of ethics, this downward spiral may eventually lead to the extinction of this great hobby as we know it today. :mad:nail head hammer

[Solus Corvus]

I think that all this worrying over the "death" of pc gaming is nothing more then unfounded alarmism. PC gaming isn't going away anytime soon.

Piracy has been common since the first PC games and yet PC games are still being made. I remember the days of copying floppies and 2400 baud BBS connections, or FTPs later. I personally don't think it took any more effort or knowledge (compared to that required for simply using the computer) to pirate software then it does now.

Despite piracy PC gaming has survived and I can think of a few reasons why it will continue to survive:

1. PCs will always be more powerful then consoles. As such there will always be a developer that wants to develop something cutting edge and realizes that will only be possible with hardware more powerful then is available in a console.

2. Unexploited niches are profits waiting to happen. If one company steps out of a profitable market (say, PC oriented first person shooters) it doesn't make all the potential customers go away, it just makes room for another company.

3. There are some market segments that simply aren't available when developing for consoles only. Including but not limited to:
a. Casual gamers that wouldn't spend the money to own hardware specifically dedicated to gaming (a console) but own a PC out of necessity or for other purposes (work or entertainment). Lots of adults fall into this category.
b. Hardcore gamers that demand the control, flexibility, and customization that a PC offers.
c. Gamers that wouldn't touch a console with a 10 foot pole.
e. Pirates, yarr.

Lastly, I would like to say that profits may indeed be declining. But profits are simply what you have left after you have used revenue to pay for your expenses. Piracy has always been there, eating away at revenue, but expenses have grown greatly over the years. Some of that has come from the increased manpower needed to produce all the content in a modern game. But some of it has also come from the expenses of packaging, shipping, advertising, and so on. The publishers are eating a large portion of the profits that I feel rightly belongs to the developers. We are now in an internet age where direct distribution from the developer to the end user is easier then it ever was before - and it wasn't very hard even back in the day when it was called shareware.

[HotGore]

Real problem is that the game was just OK, and nobody really saw value in buying it. The thing is piracy is easy, much easier then going down to the store. They should have released it on Steam or Gametap where it would have been easy, and for many faster then a torrent.

[Kingcarcas]

Prices are a bit too high for my tastes.

I don't usually buy my games right away anymore.
I will wait till I can get them for $30-40 on Amazon.
+I wasn't exactly interested in Crysis. Great game, no doubt, but it doesn't interest me (and I didn't pirate it).
If anything, I will download a game, try it out, and then buy it for around $30-40.
$20 for me, with Crysis, a new video card first.

Piracy leads to tight development budgets, which leads to high prices and low quality games, which leads to more piracy.

And until these hackers of the entitlement class find a new code of ethics, this downward spiral may eventually lead to the extinction of this great hobby as we know it today. :mad:
So we're pretty much heading for another gaming crash :confused:

[Blacky]

As for me I see crysis more like a benchmark rather than a game lol

[Donnie27]

Piracy leads to tight development budgets, which leads to high prices and low quality games, which leads to more piracy.

And until these hackers of the entitlement class find a new code of ethics, this downward spiral may eventually lead to the extinction of this great hobby as we know it today. :mad:

Well said and QFT!

[Donnie27]

Real problem is that the game was just OK, and nobody really saw value in buying it. The thing is piracy is easy, much easier then going down to the store. They should have released it on Steam or Gametap where it would have been easy, and for many faster then a torrent.

Come on guys, if the game was $10 there would be less Piracy. But there would still be folks sealing it and giving lame excuses to justify their thievery IMHO. People are not about to make this stuff for free LOL! Radiohead any one? illegal downloads of Free Music LOL! Their site was faster than Torrents:rofl:

Folks will keep stealing while they hope enough honest folks will pay for products to Keep companies afloat.:rolleyes:

[[XC] riptide]

I got mine as an Xmas present. :)

[ZOMGVTEK]

If the game was $20, i would think most people would just buy it. Even at $30 its acceptable. But, $50... $60? Come on now.

Came with my VGA though...

And yes, I paid for almost all the software i use. Yet not all.

[RAW-Raptor22]

As for me I see crysis more like a benchmark rather than a game lol

Crysis was a good game, I just wish it was longer. Maybe the whole thing (all three chapters) in one game... not the HL2 episodic content model.

[gojirasan]

Yup. No piracy (http://thepiratebay.org/tor/4152993/Grand_Theft_Auto_IV_NTSC_XBOX360-101) on consoles. I haven't actually bought a game for years. I stopped buying them when I realized that the pirated/cracked versions were much better. In fact the last game I bought (NeverWinter Nights) I never even opened the shrink wrap on the CDs. I downloaded the CDs and kept the pretty box in storage. Why use an inferior version of the game? I also stopped buying games at around the same time that copyright protection started to become unbeatable. To me, not ever being able to make a backup copy of my game CD is totally unacceptable.

[TEDY]

Logos4: you from US? If so, there's a big difference from your 40-50$ per game then here 40-50€.

1€ = 1.5$...so i'm paying 50% more then you for same game! No to mention salary/pay I get here.

And you US citizens still whining how expensive they're, why can't i complain about the price, hey I'm paying 50% more then you US are.

Ironic, right?

Lower the price to max 30€, I'll consider buying some of games.

[fireice2]

@gojirasan

really? Piracy is rampant even in console games. not as rampant in PC's though.

[Logos]

Logos4: you from US? If so, there's a big difference from your 40-50$ per game then here 40-50€.

1€ = 1.5$...so i'm paying 50% more then you for same game! No to mention salary/pay I get here.

And you US citizens still whining how expensive they're, why can't i complain about the price, hey I'm paying 50% more then you US are.

Ironic, right?

Lower the price to max 30€, I'll consider buying some of games.

no Tedy I'm not from the States; I already spoke about the price issue in another post in this thread, comparing US prices to European prices. Games cost between 50 and 60 euros, and not usd, where I live. I know that's expensive, and probably too expensive especially for very young gamers. It's always been like this with games, Doom II and Duke Nukem were already sold the equivalent of 50 euros back in 1995. A good reason not to buy them for those who can't afford it, but not a good reason to copy them illegally.

Oh btw, most PC games prices here in France always go down to 30 euros one year after their date of release, and to 15 euros a few months later. So there are tens of games, not older than one or two years, available in this range of prices.

[The0men]

Been reading the thread.

Theres alot of baiting and flaming at who buys games and who does not. Really there is no point.

Another thing I'd like to add, is I have played crysis on my AMD 3200+ with only 1GB of DDR1 RAM, with most settings on medium, and it played like a dream, and the graphics were still amazing, especially compared to games that came out the same year as the hardware I was playing on.

I have also played in on an old barton core 2800+ with only 768mb of RAM, and a dirty old 9600pro (Radeon) and the game at low settings was still perfectly playable.

Don't tell me that only 0.1% of the worlds population have computers as fast or faster than this.

And then to say that 0.1% of the people who would be interested in playing the game have machines slower than an old barton??? I find this very hard to beleive.


It really comes as no surprise to me, that PC gaming will die of pirates.

The problem may lay in the price. About $99 for a new release in Aus.

The problem of the price being so high may have several reason's, one being the fact that sames are down because there are so many pirates.

I also beleive the middle man, producers and distributers are far too greedy for their own good.

[togaman5000]

People in this thread have brought up some good points, but in the end it's increasingly obvious that the pirates are hurting the entire business with their 'justified' actions. Say what you will, whether you think you're pushing the business with your piracy, or that you're pirating a better version (that made no sense to me), in the end all you have to do is look around. Where are the triple A titles going now? What industry is growing the fastest? Which is most profitable? Well, ignore WoW for that last one, that thing is a juggernaut.

Pirates will always pirate, and will always think of some lame ass excuse to cover themselves. They're unstoppable, unless one thing happens: developers no longer make PC games worth pirating. Kinda looks like thats where we're heading, eh?

[Logos]

People in this thread have brought up some good points, but in the end it's increasingly obvious that the pirates are hurting the entire business with their 'justified' actions. Say what you will, whether you think you're pushing the business with your piracy, or that you're pirating a better version (that made no sense to me), in the end all you have to do is look around. Where are the triple A titles going now? What industry is growing the fastest? Which is most profitable? Well, ignore WoW for that last one, that thing is a juggernaut.

Pirates will always pirate, and will always think of some lame ass excuse to cover themselves. They're unstoppable, unless one thing happens: developers no longer make PC games worth pirating. Kinda looks like thats where we're heading, eh?

pirates will always pirate, no matter what the price is. I already said it myself in another post in this thread. Just because the price is not the main issue, the main issue is the way pirates think, hiding their goal,get stuff for free, behind any reason. The only way out for the PC gaming industry is to come out with things like Steam. No external media anymore (backed up CDs with Steam are only used for quick reinstall, again when connected to Steam. I hated the idea of forcing people to have an internet connection in the beginning, when HL2 came out, so even in single player mode, but I have to admit now that it was a brilliant idea. Tens of other titles from other editors are joining Steam now, which means they realized how safe it is. People protect their business, that's normal. And that guy from Crytek should, instead of praising a move to console versions, consider selling games the way Valve does.

[BullGod]

Been reading the thread.

Theres alot of baiting and flaming at who buys games and who does not. Really there is no point.

Another thing I'd like to add, is I have played crysis on my AMD 3200+ with only 1GB of DDR1 RAM, with most settings on medium, and it played like a dream, and the graphics were still amazing, especially compared to games that came out the same year as the hardware I was playing on.

I have also played in on an old barton core 2800+ with only 768mb of RAM, and a dirty old 9600pro (Radeon) and the game at low settings was still perfectly playable.

Don't tell me that only 0.1% of the worlds population have computers as fast or faster than this.

And then to say that 0.1% of the people who would be interested in playing the game have machines slower than an old barton??? I find this very hard to beleive.


It really comes as no surprise to me, that PC gaming will die of pirates.

The problem may lay in the price. About $99 for a new release in Aus.

The problem of the price being so high may have several reason's, one being the fact that sames are down because there are so many pirates.

I also beleive the middle man, producers and distributers are far too greedy for their own good.



I know what you're saying dude. When the demo came out I was in Spain so I had just a crappy Athlon to play on. It worked BUT when more than 2 enemies came out the game was not playable anymore. Just hiding behind bushes is not good gameplay imo. There's a big difference in being able to run a game and being able to play it...

[Metroid]

Crytek depends on Electronics Arts to make things like sales to work and EA is worthless with its EA Store online Program. I used to hate Steam but when I found out EA program and tried it, I have to admit that is a trash program. Why do I have to pay for the game that I already have and why the games that I already have are not available to download online if I want to? With Steam I do everything I want and much more. So EA is light years behind Valve on this kind of business.

Well like Logos4 said pirate or hackers will always pirate no matter what it is, the reason is simple "free world" do whatever you like. So why blame hackers for this as the only thing they do is to make it available free of charge, if you are the one downloading it the blame has to be on you. I have a copy of Crysis(came with my 8800GT) but never played it, not much free time these days. The game life cycle is minimal, it sells quite well only on the launch day, after that it goes drastically down.

So that is the reason they want to go to consoles, sell it more, they do not need to give support all the time as they do with the PC version, the requirements will be adaptive to the coded system and so on.

There are many factors around the PC industry and what is worth the money spent, PC gamers like things like Massively Multiplayer online role-playing game like Wow, Warcraft, Diablo, Final Fantasy etc..

Did Crytek make something worthwhile while playing a multiplayer game, like championships, tournaments, levelling up and alike?

Answer: No.

The only FPS game that made a huge success was Half Life and after that it included a modification called Counter Strike that kept FPS players happy till they had launched Half Life 2 and consequently CS:Source.

Crysis is beautiful and worth every penny and I'm sure many enthusiastic gamers have already bought it and liked it, but normal users are just not interested on it because they prefer buying games like Wow where the requirements are not that high and has a great online support.

Metroid.

[madcho]

There is 3 big problem with Crysis :

-> This is not a game but a benchmark
-> Expensive
-> No gameplay; i tryed the demo, i was so bored didn't finish it ...

=> I know they worked hard on this title, i see it. The engine is great, and let do easy build on it.

But it's heavy load for the gamer communauty. A game should be fast on a mid range 3D videocard.

You need a tri-sli of 8800ultra or a Quad 4870 to play in 1600*1200*AA4x*AF16x in high !!!

That's a benchmark ... it's not fun to play with a game below 10fps ...

The storyboard need to be more important, see HL2 success. HL2 is playable on most hardware, the storyboard is not the best but good, the game play is fun ...

This is what people want to ... change or die ...

[iddqd]

People in this thread have brought up some good points, but in the end it's increasingly obvious that the pirates are hurting the entire business with their 'justified' actions. Say what you will, whether you think you're pushing the business with your piracy, or that you're pirating a better version (that made no sense to me), in the end all you have to do is look around. Where are the triple A titles going now? What industry is growing the fastest? Which is most profitable? Well, ignore WoW for that last one, that thing is a juggernaut.

Pirates will always pirate, and will always think of some lame ass excuse to cover themselves. They're unstoppable, unless one thing happens: developers no longer make PC games worth pirating. Kinda looks like thats where we're heading, eh?

The way I see it, is there will always be people that pirate everything they can - they're the 12 year olds, or people in regions with weak economy, or, well I could go on describing why people pirate. The point is, it's a fact of life and there's no way of getting around it.

There will also, always be some people who pay for their software. You could either try to come up with schemes that require people to buy a legitimate version (e.g. a cdkey that lets you play online), but with that scheme, you as a developer are also forced to do a lot of multiplayer support. A lot of developers (especially EA's subsidiaries) do the first, but not the 2nd part, making the multiplayer a completely moot point.

Anyway, given the first two points, there will always be people pirating and there will always be people paying for your software. You could try to make more incentives to own a legitimate copy and increase the customer:pirate ratio, but that will ultimately require money and resources on your part as the developer, and at the end of the day, you can do financial analysis and determine whether you'd like to grab those extra sales at the cost of maintaining your software, or let them go and sell it basically as-is.

You could of course, treat piracy as a mass-market exposure tool, the whole "the first dose is free" mentality. First of all, the copies that were "pirated" do not necessarily translate directly into a loss - that is, they would probably not be purchased anyway if piracy was impossible, so you can't just write it off as a "loss", or at least not as direct (number_of_copies_pirated * retail_price) product. Second of all, the more copies are pirated, the more market exposure you're getting. If the number gets really high, and nearly everybody is using your software (such as Microsoft Office, for example), they're basically setting your software as the industry-standard. I would be more than happy if everybody wanted to pirate my software. Bill Gates seems to agree with me, in his 1993 keynote, he said: "They'll get addicted, and then we'll collect" about pirates. Similarly, music piracy has been known to increase concert interest/record sales for little-known artists who would, without piracy, get little to no airtime.

So I maintain that the main reason why Crysis is unsuccessful is that it's designed for the ultra-high-end; it simply will not run (or run, but with such low settings that make it pointless) on the vast majority of PCs out there. The 2nd reason is that it sucks.

Don't blame piracy for your failures and stupid business decisions, Crytek.

[Logos]

I wanted to confirm yesterday: yes piracy helps MS, and yes that leads to addiction to Windows, especially in developing countries, and yes that keeps people away from Linux. And that's unfortunate. But there's one reason why I didn't comment on that yesterday: the MS case can't be associated with the gaming piracy phenomenon. The MS case leads to monopole, OS dictatorship, whatever you wanna call it, while gaming piracy leads to more gaming piracy, and doesn't help anybody but the pirates themselves. No objective association, in the context of piracy at least, between MS and the gaming industry.

off topic: DirectX...might be better or worse than OpenGL, depending which dev speaks about it or does with it but one thing is sure, bloody DX keeps gamers like hostages on the Windows platform. If there's one thing the gaming industry together with MS are to blame for, it's this.

[iddqd]

If it helps such companies as Microsoft, Adobe, Symantec, Ahead, Autosys, etc.. why can't it help companies that develop games?

And of course only in developed nations. Others just can't afford to spend $40 on software when that's more than they make in an entire month. It's just common sense that most of China isn't going to pony up that much for software or content.

[Donnie27]

If it helps such companies as Microsoft, Adobe, Symantec, Ahead, Autosys, etc.. why can't it help companies that develop games?

And of course only in developed nations. Others just can't afford to spend $40 on software when that's more than they make in an entire month. It's just common sense that most of China isn't going to pony up that much for software or content.

Why, because large companies buy Millions of copies/licenses of the software you just mentioned. Now let's see, what in the hell does G.E., GM, Ford, Honda or Toyota need with Crysis?:D You've been brainwashed by Thieves, Rouges, Hackers and Pirates for wayyy too long, please come back to reality?

Games already have a limited market and a small window to squeeze Profits through. When many of their game/s or any other company's games are stolen, they loose profits=P All any one has to do is look at the companies who died from the lost sales and some had decent games.:mad:

The argument "Games cost too much so I steal them". That has the be the lamest ^$%#&*@ thing I've ever heard. Let's see, I can't afford a million dollar home so I should just go steal one? Sounds like some of the folks in jail for stealing cable TV LOL! Oh right, I can't afford a Viper or a Vette so I should rent on then steal one them too uh? Man ethics are way down in the world:rolleyes:

[Logos]

Why, because large companies buy Millions of copies/licenses of the software you just mentioned. Now let's see, what in the hell does G.E., GM, Ford, Honda or Toyota need with Crysis?:D You've been brainwashed by Thieves, Rouges, Hackers and Pirates for wayyy too long, please come back to reality?

Games already have a limited market and a small window to squeeze Profits through. When of their game/s or any other company's games are stolen, they loose profits=P All any one has to do is look at the companies who died from the lost sales and some had decent games.:mad:

The argument "Games cost too much so I steal them". That has the be the lamest ^$%#&*@ thing I've ever heard. Let's see, I can't afford a million dollar home so I should just go steal one? Sounds like some of the folks in jail for stealing cable TV LOL! Oh right, I can't afford a Viper or a Vette so I should rent on then steal one them too uh? Man ethics are way down in the world:rolleyes:

:clap: :clap: :clap: again, I couldn't agree more

[motopen1s]

I would say that high prices is one of the biggest factors that make pc games piracy so big. Granted, console games are not cheap too, but many are likely to spend all they can for the pc, so that they simply do not have like 50Euro+ for a PC game.

It is really crazy to pay such amount of money for a game which will last you 12 hours top! In Europe, pretty much any new release will set you back $70+ !!!

Stop being so damn greedy and people will start buying your games. Cut with all the fancy boxes and all that stuff (cut useless expences) - give us more online options (STEAM ftw; love autoupdates there and overall ease and comfort of use) and lower prices!

I am sure if lets say Crisys would cost like 10-20 Euro ($15 - $30) for online download and 15-25 Euro ($25 - $40) boxed version - they would sell millions of them.


Now, if I want to buy english version of Crysis here in Germany, it will cost me $95 (I could find german version in stores for $80). Anybody who thinks this price is justified please be my guest (source: http://geizhals.at/eu/a294013.html).

[jbartlett323]

so i say that the video game industry, much like the oil industry is makeing way to much profits... and i had this to say in the past:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2829985#post2829985


(no stats provided just a edjumacated guess)
theory: If you pay 100 game developers $50/hr for approximatly 100 hours you will have spent $500,000 producing this game... no media costs... no packaging costs... lets add another $200,000 in over blown marketing... were up too $700,000 right?

Now put that game on a bittorrent tracker with a 4 hour trial at wich point it stops the game and prompts for a credit card...
The price of the affor mentioned game is $5...
1 million people download it... cause it looks free and cool as hell...
800,000 buy it for $5 cause they downloaded it and it was fun...
ending balance= $4,000,000
i think that would solve everyones problems :up:


Until it gets cracked and no fee required. Honestly, I would require on-line play with a credit card (even if no fee is charged) and a unique account. Single player anything: your game will be stolen.


who would bother to crack it? its 5 bucks! if you are so broke you can't pay five bucks then save your games go to a new computer and start your four hours from where you left off... the point is that a lot more people would be inclined to buy it therefore piracy would drop... it will never stop! never! its an impossible fight! but there are ways to make it not matter so much! i would buy just about any game for 5 bucks! but i will not pay $50 for a game i haven't played... and no demos don't count and alot of time the review will say its good and its not or the review will say its crap and its the best game i have ever played!

now i would like to see some negation to my edjumacated numbers and also why this wouldn't work... oh yeah i answered the last part on my own: they are greedy bastards that need to deal with what the make not what they can make by not bothering with the vasiline while butt raping us!!

[LudLud]

Piracy is only a problem for pc games when it comes to single player games, and let's face it, who plays single player games??? Less than 5% of all pc gamers(not an actual statistic but it's probably close or even less than that)?

How is it games like counter strike,diablo II, starcraft are still selling on the shelves of best buy, circuit city and what not, 8 years after they were released?? Because their developers were smart enough to come up with an authentication system that is hard to bypass.

Sure counter strike and diablo II have cracked servers, but if you play in those, you play with like 100 people or less, and not to mention that pirated counter strike is a joke, because you can't even get a scrim in a non legit server.

So many of you have got it wrong!

[Seraphiel]

This is good news. PC gaming can learn alot from console gaming, just as console gaming can learn alot from PC gaming. Each have their individual advantages and expectations.

Both are not perfect or anywhere near that (unless you have unlimited resources). A common ground will eventually be found where most are more satisfied than now.

[Donnie27]

I would say that high prices is one of the biggest factors that make pc games piracy so big. Granted, console games are not cheap too, but many are likely to spend all they can for the pc, so that they simply do not have like 50Euro+ for a PC game.

It is really crazy to pay such amount of money for a game which will last you 12 hours top! In Europe, pretty much any new release will set you back $70+ !!!

Stop being so damn greedy and people will start buying your games. Cut with all the fancy boxes and all that stuff (cut useless expences) - give us more online options (STEAM ftw; love autoupdates there and overall ease and comfort of use) and lower prices!

I am sure if lets say Crisys would cost like 10-20 Euro ($15 - $30) for online download and 15-25 Euro ($25 - $40) boxed version - they would sell millions of them.

Now, if I want to buy english version of Crysis here in Germany, it will cost me $95 (I could find german version in stores for $80). Anybody who thinks this price is justified please be my guest (source: http://geizhals.at/eu/a294013.html).

I think you're missing the point. If it costs too much and many most surely do, then not only don't buy it, don't steal it either. Stealing the games assures higher prices for those who aren't stealing. It's like stealing food from Aldi or Kroger causes them to raise their Food prices, nothing new. People download and steal old games and $5 DVD's that are in the bargain bin at Walmart LOL!

[Donnie27]

now i would like to see some negation to my edjumacated numbers and also why this wouldn't work... oh yeah i answered the last part on my own: they are greedy bastards that need to deal with what the make not what they can make by not bothering with the vasiline while butt raping us!!


You shouldn't call anyone names! What if one of their Reps came here and called you a Cheap Greedy bastard for stealing products? Their greed doesn't give anyone the right to steal from them=P This isn't happening to only Crysis BTW.

Video game industry
Activities Jobs Types of video games Companies
Game design
Game development
Game programming
Game testing
Journalism
Level design Game producer
Game designer
Game programmer
Game artist
Game tester
Level designer Arcade game
Computer game
Console game
Handheld game Video game developer
Video game publisher
List of video game companies
List of publishers

500K does NOTHING to pay all the folks behind almost any Game launch.

[Donnie27]

Piracy is only a problem for pc games when it comes to single player games, and let's face it, who plays single player games??? Less than 5% of all pc gamers(not an actual statistic but it's probably close or even less than that)?

How is it games like counter strike,diablo II, starcraft are still selling on the shelves of best buy, circuit city and what not, 8 years after they were released?? Because their developers were smart enough to come up with an authentication system that is hard to bypass.

Sure counter strike and diablo II have cracked servers, but if you play in those, you play with like 100 people or less, and not to mention that pirated counter strike is a joke, because you can't even get a scrim in a non legit server.

So many of you have got it wrong!

Absolutely! First Person Shooters are the most pirated. FPS is the segement that can't stand to be pirated because of its small overall size. This form/line of Game could die leaving stuff like "The Sims" untouched.:rolleyes:

[Loque]

think instead of blaming it on piracy they should realize releasing a game that can only be run properly on a small percentage of hardware would lead to low sales... console games are pirated as much as pc ones but sell more since there's a lot more consoles than high end pcs.

pc manufactures should just include mid to high end graphic cards in their systems and screw the useless low end crap, but for that nvidia/ati need to get :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:slapped to push the pc hardware beyond console level at reasonable prices..

[iddqd]

Why, because large companies buy Millions of copies/licenses of the software you just mentioned. Now let's see, what in the hell does G.E., GM, Ford, Honda or Toyota need with Crysis?:D You've been brainwashed by Thieves, Rouges, Hackers and Pirates for wayyy too long, please come back to reality?
Admittedly, no, you won't have any corporate clients for games. But they're not the only customers that actually pay for their content legitimately. There's a pretty big bracket in developed countries that can afford paying $50/title with no problems.


Games already have a limited market and a small window to squeeze Profits through. When many of their game/s or any other company's games are stolen, they loose profits=P All any one has to do is look at the companies who died from the lost sales and some had decent games.:mad:
I think that's actually the main reason. It doesn't help when you limit your market even more.


The argument "Games cost too much so I steal them". That has the be the lamest ^$%#&*@ thing I've ever heard. Let's see, I can't afford a million dollar home so I should just go steal one? Sounds like some of the folks in jail for stealing cable TV LOL! Oh right, I can't afford a Viper or a Vette so I should rent on then steal one them too uh? Man ethics are way down in the world:rolleyes:
Roll your eyes as much as you want, but if you happen to live in a nation with a weak economy, you probably won't even see legitimate copies of software in stores, they'll all be pirated copies. It's not like you'd be able to afford a real copy of windows on your $30/month salary.

Let's blame China for "killing" video game developers because they're "stealing" everything. As if there was any money in distributing software to China... :rolleyes:

[Frank M]

€60+ ($100) for a game?
You've got to be kidding. I find $30-40 acceptable, but hate that 3 months-
2 years waiting game for them to drop to that price region; well, with all the
work and studies I rarely have time to play anyway. Yes, you read that righ,
I do buy my games if they are priced right - but their launch price is too high.



The argument "Games cost too much so I steal them". That has the be the lamest ^$%#&*@ thing I've ever heard.

The piracy = stealing argument is also lame.
This is not a physical good that is stolen; the producer doesn't incur an
actual loss if it is copied. It's just a hypothetical loss, the "how much would
we get if all users bought it" clause. That is fundamentally flawed, however:
if they'd have to pay for it, I'm sure most pirateers (buccaneers? Harr)
wouldn't buy it. This industry-loss-this, industry-loss-that, piracy-loss is
just blown up propaganda, whose sole aim is to hide the fact that piracy
thrives mostly because games are overpriced.

[Logos]

You're still not banned and your name-calling still not edited? Gee, mods are
getting lazy nowadays...

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
yeah right, one should ban people like me, and encourage piracy militants to post more often :ROTF: :ROTF: :ROTF: , hey Franky, report my post again will you? and keep dreaming. Someone called me a moron in this thread, could be that it was you, not even sure... does it matter? Can hardly make the difference between some of you guys. I don't expect anyone to be banned, you don't matter that much.

[Frank M]

report my post again will you?

Only if you ask nicely :p:

Good that you can't counter my arguments though....

[Logos]

Only if you ask nicely :p:

Good that you can't counter my arguments though....

arguments :confused:

[Donnie27]

Admittedly, no, you won't have any corporate clients for games. But they're not the only customers that actually pay for their content legitimately. There's a pretty big bracket in developed countries that can afford paying $50/title with no problems.

The point was there are markets several thousand times the size of the gaming market. The software you meantioned is bought by the General market and not the tiny Gaming market.



I think that's actually the main reason. It doesn't help when you limit your market even more.

I don't, we're NOT just talking about Crytec in that case though. Just as you meantioned other software, I'm talking about gamers in general.



Roll your eyes as much as you want, but if you happen to live in a nation with a weak economy, you probably won't even see legitimate copies of software in stores, they'll all be pirated copies. It's not like you'd be able to afford a real copy of windows on your $30/month salary.

Dewd, I live the US were the Dollar is taking a beating wages is stagnant, Insurace just jumpped for Med, Home and Car and etc.., so spare me?


Let's blame China for "killing" video game developers because they're "stealing" everything. As if there was any money in distributing software to China... :rolleyes:

Now that one I agree with. But you might as well say everything and not just tech stuff.

[voltaire2030]

So futile ... Just look at the torrent sections of any sites for consoles.. Games are everywhere... And god knows how many times, we heard somebody annoncing the death of PC games ... and it's still there ... With the price of computers going down each year, I cannot see how it will disapear.. I still remember, I'm kind of ''old'', how few people had a computer or internet in my time ... And now ! Even my grandfather have one !

[Donnie27]

The piracy = stealing argument is also lame.
This is not a physical good that is stolen; the producer doesn't incur an
actual loss if it is copied. It's just a hypothetical loss, the "how much would
we get if all users bought it" clause. That is fundamentally flawed, however:
if they'd have to pay for it, I'm sure most pirateers (buccaneers? Harr)
wouldn't buy it. This industry-loss-this, industry-loss-that, piracy-loss is
just blown up propaganda, whose sole aim is to hide the fact that piracy
thrives mostly because games are overpriced.


Stealing content is stealing Frank=P It has Zero to do with how you feel about anything, it's the LAW LOL! DRM is that law, like it or not (I think 99% of it sucks). A sale not made is not hypothetical at all. There is an exception. If someone steals it, doesn't like it and then removes it from their system. Meaning, that person at least, even if they bought it legally would return it anyway = no sale. Any one continuing to use ill-gotten products = a sale not made.

Piracy thrives because folks want $#it free and that's a Fact LOL! Again, what happened to Radiohead (another Fact) drove that point home plain and clear. Many Artist in the market were watching and waiting for the results. Most backed off afterward.
So, is $5 too much to pay for Bargain Bin DVD movie?
How about $9.99 Games.:rofl:

So let's see, in todays world it's, "if you can't afford it steal it?"

One guy who made a living off Warez products was complaining about how Torrents was hurting him LOL! Sure why buy his copies while you can download your own ISO and burn? If it is hurting his sales, then sure it is hurting the originator's sales.

[Logos]

So futile ... Just look at the torrent sections of any sites for consoles.. Games are everywhere... And god knows how many times, we heard somebody annoncing the death of PC games ... and it's still there ... With the price of computers going down each year, I cannot see how it will disapear.. I still remember, I'm kind of ''old'', how few people had a computer or internet in my time ... And now ! Even my grandfather have one !

makes me think of something I read yesterday: half of the French population has an internet access now. So they must have a PC at home or did I miss something...Can't understand why they spend their money in consoles instead of buying a better graphic card and play on the PC. I guess the answer could be that the average user goes to the FNAC (equivalent of Walmart) to buy a plug and surf machine: so the use is mostly restricted to surfing and emails for a majority, this same majority thinking it's too hard (oh god:rolleyes: ) to launch a setup executable; they want to use the PC like the TV. Oh yeah, they watch video too, but they buy consoles to be able to play as soon as the disc is inserted. No config, no tweaking, boooooooooooring. Look how ridiculous this is: these guys and girls own PCs, and they buy consoles :shrug:

[jbartlett323]

You shouldn't call anyone names! What if one of their Reps came here and called you a Cheap Greedy bastard for stealing products? Their greed doesn't give anyone the right to steal from them=P This isn't happening to only Crysis BTW.

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500K does NOTHING to pay all the folks behind almost any Game launch.

I know 500K does nothing... thats why my numbers where in the millions... and i know my numbers are probably a third to a fifth of what the numbers are actually the point is still the same... if it takes 2 million to create the game and you make 5 million from selling it you still make 3 million PROFIT!
and those numbers are still very low.
and did you know the average salary for game developer (who do all the work and should get most of the money) is only around $75k a year?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18406129/
http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Software_Engineer_%2f_Developer_%2f_Programmer/Salary
i was therorizing closer to $100k a year so even if they use more than 100 game developers my numbers still stand...
but i guess in the end like all things that purely make sense (in my mind at least ;) ) it will never happen because as long as they are raking in the big dough why would they ever want a system that makes sense.
and i can call anyone i want a greedy bastard just as much as the next person!! i will admit i am a greedy bastard but the difference is i don't have any money and they do!!! :D

and just to clarify i am not trying to condone pirating just trying to bash the way large corporations continue to make hugh sums of money! :up:

[Donnie27]

So futile ... Just look at the torrent sections of any sites for consoles.. Games are everywhere... And god knows how many times, we heard somebody annoncing the death of PC games ... and it's still there ... With the price of computers going down each year, I cannot see how it will disapear.. I still remember, I'm kind of ''old'', how few people had a computer or internet in my time ... And now ! Even my grandfather have one !

But that's just it! I didn't say I thought PC Gaming would die. I did say a certain segment or form of Gaming would. Look at all the BS going on with Cheats and online Gaming? I loved Call Of Duty 4 online, was about average playing it Had a blast! Then the cheaters came and screwed it up. So how popular is that now? I haven't booted it up in 2 months LOL! These are probaly the same lame folks playing against the computer in God Mode LOL!

[DilTech]

I know 500K does nothing... thats why my numbers where in the millions... and i know my numbers are probably a third to a fifth of what the numbers are actually the point is still the same... if it takes 2 million to create the game and you make 5 million from selling it you still make 3 million PROFIT!
and those numbers are still very low.
and did you know the average salary for game developer (who do all the work and should get most of the money) is only around $75k a year?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18406129/
http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Software_Engineer_%2f_Developer_%2f_Programmer/Salary
i was therorizing closer to $100k a year so even if they use more than 100 game developers my numbers still stand...
but i guess in the end like all things that purely make sense (in my mind at least ;) ) it will never happen because as long as they are raking in the big dough why would they ever want a system that makes sense.
and i can call anyone i want a greedy bastard just as much as the next person!! i will admit i am a greedy bastard but the difference is i don't have any money and they do!!! :D

It costs more than 2 million to make a game... a LOT more for a high-profile title.

http://arstechnica.com/journals/thumbs.ars/2006/10/5/5516

Gears of war costed 10 million to make, and that was considered BRAGGING RIGHTS low budget! :( When you consider that, the going price is NOT too much!

Due to the increasing complexity of video games, from graphics to physics to ai(not even counting multi-threading), it takes a lot longer to create video-games. It also takes much more talented developers, who in turn cost more money. ;)

That's the same reason most developers are all going multi-platform, even in the console biz. It's because making games just costs too much for a single platform to presently pay the bills.

[jbartlett323]

It costs more than 2 million to make a game... a LOT more for a high-profile title.

http://arstechnica.com/journals/thumbs.ars/2006/10/5/5516

Gears of war costed 10 million to make, and that was considered BRAGGING RIGHTS low budget! :( When you consider that, the going price is NOT too much!

Due to the increasing complexity of video games, from graphics to physics to ai(not even counting multi-threading), it takes a lot longer to create video-games. It also takes much more talented developers, who in turn cost more money. ;)

That's the same reason most developers are all going multi-platform, even in the console biz. It's because making games just costs too much for a single platform to presently pay the bills.

thank you for putting me straight on the numbers but they were all theoretical... :up:
now lets look at reported sales: over three million copies in just ten weeks!! and more i'm sure since
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gears_of_War
so lets see at $50 a copy... eh thats only $150 Million... so thats what? $140 Million profit :eek: ? so lets just say for they hell of it that $20 Million is extra expenses not listed or claimed... ya see where i am goin here?? :rolleyes:

[Logos]

could be that they need the extra money to develop the next game hey? could be that they enjoy life, and hmm...also need the money to feed their kids, and guess what...buy a car, a house...all deeply criminal capitalistic activities.

I remember when I bought Unreal1 back in 1998; a couple of days after that I read that the guys at Epic had spent 4 years to develop it, and outperform the graphics of Quake2. I lost 50 euros :confused: Didn't see it that way sorry. They make profit ? :clap:

[Donnie27]

I know 500K does nothing... thats why my numbers where in the millions... and i know my numbers are probably a third to a fifth of what the numbers are actually the point is still the same... if it takes 2 million to create the game and you make 5 million from selling it you still make 3 million PROFIT!
and those numbers are still very low.
and did you know the average salary for game developer (who do all the work and should get most of the money) is only around $75k a year?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18406129/
http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Software_Engineer_%2f_Developer_%2f_Programmer/Salary
i was therorizing closer to $100k a year so even if they use more than 100 game developers my numbers still stand...
but i guess in the end like all things that purely make sense (in my mind at least ;) ) it will never happen because as long as they are raking in the big dough why would they ever want a system that makes sense.
and i can call anyone i want a greedy bastard just as much as the next person!! i will admit i am a greedy bastard but the difference is i don't have any money and they do!!! :D

OK! I was just asking you to please don't call folks names and even made the what if bold. It's not like a disagree with you. No biggie on the other stuff! We can't estimate ROI or COB on salaries along. There's too many factors left out. Crytech said they would not do PC-Only games meaning they'd do PC and Console ports. I'm a Capitalist and know it is what genuinely makes the world go round.

Folks wanting to make money isn't a bad thing and thats what drives inovation.

[jbartlett323]

could be that they need the extra money to develop the next game hey? could be that they enjoy life, and hmm...also need the money to feed their kids, and guess what...buy a car, a house...all deeply criminal capitalistic activities.

I remember when I bought Unreal1 back in 1998; a couple of days after that I read that the guys at Epic had spent 4 years to develop it, and outperform the graphics of Quake2. I lost 50 euros :confused: Didn't see it that way sorry. They make profit ? :clap:

ok but paying the developers is part of cost right? and last i checked $75K- $100k a year is still a healthy sum... and if it goes toward the next game ok but lets say that game cost $20 Million you still have $100 Million to play with... well lets give everyone a refresh on hardware and software... well there goes $30 Million... still have $70 Million from the last game and a game in production or released that will make still more money!

[jbartlett323]

OK! I was just asking you to please don't call folks names and even made the what if bold. It's not like a disagree with you. No biggie on the other stuff! We can't estimate ROI or COB on salaries along. There's too many factors left out. Crytech said they would not do PC-Only games meaning they'd do PC and Console ports. I'm a Capitalist and know it is what genuinely makes the world go round.

Folks wanting to make money isn't a bad thing and thats what drives inovation.

sorry man wasn't trying to attack your comment just trying to make a little jest...:up:

Money is indeed what makes the world go round and there is absolutly nothing wrong with people wanting it... the problem is when people want more than is truely necassary in their lives... but that isn't quite what i'm trying to say either ya know?

well again i am done trying to make the point... it will do no good... game companies will do as big corporations do until a very influential and charasmatic person decides to try to change it... but at the time (and bring on the foil hats!!) the government will step in and stop it by any means necassary...
but it does suck... seems like good PC games are getting fewer and fewer...

[Donnie27]

thank you for putting me straight on the numbers but they were all theoretical... :up:
now lets look at reported sales: over three million copies in just ten weeks!! and more i'm sure since
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gears_of_War
so lets see at $50 a copy... eh thats only $150 Million... so thats what? $140 Million profit :eek: ? so lets just say for they hell of it that $20 Million is extra expenses not listed or claimed... ya see where i am goin here?? :rolleyes:

Here we go again. Gears of War was an "Also Ran" game by the time it reached the PC or have you forgotten? This is one of the reasons Cry is now saying they'll do the same, there's much less money in PC-Only titles.

On another note, it doesn't matter if they made 1 Billion, stealing from them is not justified. Mariah just went past Elivs on the records sold list. So, now does that mean stealing her Music is OK?

[Donnie27]

sorry man wasn't trying to attack your comment just trying to make a little jest...:up:

well again i am done trying to make the point... it will do no good... game companies will do as big corporations do until a very influential and charasmatic person decides to try to change it... but at the time (and bring on the foil hats!!) the government will step in and stop it by any means necassary...
but it does suck... seems like good PC games are getting fewer and fewer...

No biggie and I wasn't trying to attack you, sure I think they're at least slimy in many cases!:up:

[Logos]

i will admit i am a greedy bastard but the difference is i don't have any money and they do!!! :D


yep, but they make the games and you don't. These words that you use are just it, they summarize your issue, your only issue: they have something that you don't have, and you hate them for that. Again, they make the games, they work, and you're watching them with greed and anger. this is so common.

[jbartlett323]

yep, but they make the games and you don't. These words that you use are just it, they summarize your issue, your only issue: they have something that you don't have, and you hate them for that. Again, they make the games, they work, and you're watching them with greed and anger. this is so common.

ok so i was gonna rant a little but figured it had absolutly no baring on the actual topic so: i don't hate anyone... i am envious... they have items i dont that i want... so i work my ass off to get them... i'm not even really angry at them... it does no good... i'm disappointed... and did you ever think that the reason it was common was because its a problem... or just because those of us who are angry are just poor slobs with nothing better to do with our lives? :shrug:
Logos4 i was trying to make a point please dont belittle me for it! :up:

[Logos]

ok so i was gonna rant a little but figured it had absolutly no baring on the actual topic so: i don't hate anyone... i am envious... they have items i dont that i want... so i work my ass off to get them... i'm not even really angry at them... it does no good... i'm disappointed... and did you ever think that the reason it was common was because its a problem... or just because those of us who are angry are just poor slobs with nothing better to do with our lives? :shrug:
Logos4 i was trying to make a point please dont belittle me for it! :up:

OK np. There's a community issue that goes far beyond our debate here. Sorry if I hurt you, that was not my purpose, or to be honest, that is not my purpose anymore. I like your last post :up:

[gojirasan]

It is too bad that the publishers in their never ending war against piracy have reduced the value of game ownership instead of increasing it. If one of my game discs, like maybe the one that I am forced to keep in my DVD drive at all times, gets scratched I am forced to buy a new one. No nicely printed paper manuals anymore. All kinds of problems starting the game and delays in playing the game due to the copyright protection program doing its thing in the background. The same copyright protection program that probably will not run on future operating systems. Game publishers have lost sight of everything that used to make actually owning the real game worthwhile. Now they must rely solely on people who consider pirating the game to be stealing or at least unethical. I wish them luck, but I will not be buying anything from them. Ever. Until they back down from their tough guy anti-copying stance. And if there is no pirated version I will not play it. Yes it is in fact a matter of principle. I have more than enough money to buy the games. If I buy it then I own it. Own, not just the physical disc but the content inside of it. At least for my personal use. Until they respect that I have no sympathy for them. I wish them luck selling to the console kiddies. They can spend all of their fancy graphics talent making a Donkey Kong remake.

[iddqd]

I see that my sentiments are falling of deaf ears.

Let me be crass, if someone were to offer me a free copy of Crysis, I would say, "No, go have intercourse with yourself".

That is why it failed. Blaming piracy is silly, since that's something all developers have to live with and it sidesteps the real issues.

Edit: Think of the children!

[kingzl3y]

Yeah, it's a foocking shame, you can't beat a good ol' PC game..
Just got Assassins Creed, it's amazing - I was told it's CRAP on the xbox/ps3.. but i don't see what's not to like about it..
The graphics are amazing!
But..
I just read something on the first page..
something like.. "what happens when pc games die.. crackers will move on to consoles.."
well, dude, they already have..
go to any torrrent site, search for PS3, 360 or even WII and you get 100s of results..

Surely companies like Crytek should 'try' to improve game protection and not just stop at the first hurdle..
:(

[Lunchbox21984]

i bought my Crysis CE and loved the game. have bought alot of other games over the years and have downloaded a few only to try them too see if i would like them, then if i do like them i buy the real deal. but sense the old days of WinMX days of downloads, i dont download like i used too, just demo's when they come out.