Catastrophic Problem...

[MaXXimus]

Well I finally got everything all hooked up about an hour ago and filled up my Res and powered on the pump for small bursts and then refilled the Res... and guess what happened next? I see a puddle on the powersupply... so I quickly soak it up and then start looking at the fittings... all good... I shove some paper towels into the area where the puddle was and power the pump on... freakin PA120.3 is leaking and not from a fitting. WTF :shakes:

So I called up Sidewinder where I got it from and they say wait for an RMA and they MIGHT be able to send a replacement out today but not sure... so here I sit waiting on a phone call and or email.


BOOOO HISSSSSSS

[NaeKuh]

oh bananas.

Did you puncture your radiator with a screw in too deep?

This is why you always test b4 you screw. :\

[MaXXimus]

How can you screw in too deep? The holes go all the way through. Now I just hooked up the second loop and thats leaking in 2 places.

[Waterlogged]

If you use screws that are too long, they will puncture the rad, this is what NaeKuh meant.

[MaXXimus]

I have no clue... I ordered a anodized grill and it came with long screws for mounting fan and rads and smaller ones for just fans and I used the longer ones... thats all I know.

[lennox]

why is it common to use long screws anyways? unless you have a fan with closed corners I just don't see the need. I use 1/4" on everything... or 3/8 to 1/2" for foam/shroud, or extra thick fans.

Just curious why everyone uses such huge screws :shrug:

[crackbag]

did you tighten down the drain plug? i forgot to the 1st time i used a thermochill rad

[NaeKuh]

why is it common to use long screws anyways? unless you have a fan with closed corners I just don't see the need. I use 1/4" on everything... or 3/8 to 1/2" for foam/shroud, or extra thick fans.

Just curious why everyone uses such huge screws :shrug:

using closed corners work better with faster rpm fans. They allow a more firm clamp which then translates to less vibration, and overall less noise.

[MaXXimus]

I just used what was given to me... if I damaged the rad with them then I guess thats my fault for not knowing. I just assumed they gave me screw for mounting so use them. I guess I should have just stuck to air... which I guess my next move is going to be draining and removing all this stuff and seeing about refund or selling it all. Really sucks after all this to be met with defeat.

[MaXXimus]

did you tighten down the drain plug? i forgot to the 1st time i used a thermochill rad


Its for sure not the drain plug... first rad is leakin (looking straight at barbs) somewhere in the right cornor area near the barbs. Second rad is leaking in the same cornor as well as the opposite cornor on the other end.

[NaeKuh]

I just used what was given to me... if I damaged the rad with them then I guess thats my fault for not knowing. I just assumed they gave me screw for mounting so use them. I guess I should have just stuck to air... which I guess my next move is going to be draining and removing all this stuff and seeing about refund or selling it all. Really sucks after all this to be met with defeat.

ummm

your giving up too easily. Also i dont think you did enough research.

The stickys on this section were made by max and other members to help people out.

They also list the proper screws to be used with each radiator. All you needed to do was visually inspect the length.

To do a drop test, you dont even need to screw the screw in. Just drop it in the fan hole and then put the fan down on your radiator and navigate so the screw goes down.

If the screw lifts up, its gonna touch a radiator tube. If not your good to screw. If the screw is too long, you can add spacers and such.

Dont give up to earily, the radiator could be bad, however you could of punctured it. Which is why i always tell people to take things slow, and if your lost, always ask.


Basically you will never get looked down on for asking noobie questions which arent on FAQ's.
We will teach and guide and then try to help you out as much as possible so it does work.

[lennox]

You should post a picture...

depending how bad you punctured the radiator. You can solder it or try some sealant. i'm sure someone on this board could recommend something

[MaXXimus]

I dont really want to give up but wth... I been taken it slower then a 90 yr old man and this is what I end up with. I been without a comp for a week now and Im just aggravated with thinking about having to drain and dissassemble the whole damn works and sit and wait more time while the parts get RMAed and then new ones get to me, then its back to square one again. Enough is enough... I just want a workign freakin comp at this point

[NaeKuh]

I dont really want to give up but wth... I been taken it slower then a 90 yr old man and this is what I end up with. I been without a comp for a week now and Im just aggravated with thinking about having to drain and dissassemble the whole damn works and sit and wait more time while the parts get RMAed and then new ones get to me, then its back to square one again. Enough is enough... I just want a workign freakin comp at this point

puncturing your radiator is not what a 90yr old would do if that is what you did. :rofl:


Maxx, go outside take a deep breathe, go play some basketball, relax. Right now is not the time for you to touch your system. Your angry, fustrated, and your gonna explode.

:D

Cool down a bit, grab a ice coffee, and try it again after we tell you what you did wrong when you post pictures!

[MaXXimus]

I have to give up... I dont have any more time or patience for this at all. And sure its out of anger right now but I need my freakin computer to be working. I figured if anything one of the blocks would leak or one of the barbs which could be easily fixed... but draining the system and then removing the rads from the roof of my case is just not something I want to do AGAIN. Then also the fact that who is to say that a barb or block wont leak once I did get new rads and tested it for 24hrs? I seriously just dont have it in me to go though this whole process... I was prepared for anything BUT the rads to leak... hell... I would have stuck with the WC if it werent for now having to dismantle and drain BOTH loops.

[NaeKuh]

yeah but the rewards for a working system is worth all the effort put into it.

Thats what im trying to say. Your only seeing the low/bad aspect of it.

[DarthBeavis]

Dude I had the same issue once . . you can get two sets of foreceps and clamp off each tube to the rad so you do not have to drain it all.

[smee]

Lol, I ALWAYS cut my screws for my rad, so that they JUST go through all of the threads, I have about a 1/4" between the screw bottom and the rad fins/pipes.
Just for my peace of mind.. :rolleyes:

[Gunslinger]

Punctured my first rad also, so you're not alone. lol, only PA 120.3 I've ever owned, now I use MCR320's just because of that incident.

They're right though, take a break, and then complete the mission soldier.

[spoony]

Don't feel bad. I just got into the water cooling thing and I just had my first incident. I decided to use 7/16" tubing over 1/2" fittings with no clamps only to have a leak that spilled water onto my mb, graphics cards, and into my ps. My ps popped and started smoking, so now I have no comp either. I am getting a pc power and cooling ps to replace the enermax galaxy 1000w. It doesn't have a fan in the top, so if I have another leak at least it might make it through. I only hope the rest of the components are ok.

[Kilyin]

so you punctured two PA120.3s.. that's an expensive lesson to learn. If you decide not to give up, I recommend buying a set of bolt cutters for trimming your screws down.

[gojirasan]

I spilled water on my motherboard twice and I damaged my brand new unused PA120.3 by dropping it on something before I even finished setting up my computer. If you really did puncture it I doubt it will be covered by warranty. But I looked into it and brass can be soldered with just plain old solder. It doesn't really need to be brazed. All you need is a propane torch and some 60/40 solder. If the holes are from screws they should be small. I don't think it will effect the performance of the radiator too much. Some people also recommended JB Weld for me which seems like it would also work and would be cheaper and easier than soldering it. I was so pissed that I just immediately ordered a new rad. So now I have two.

[HaCKs]

How can you screw in too deep? The holes go all the way through. Now I just hooked up the second loop and thats leaking in 2 places.

You're not trying to say you put a screw ALL the way through your radiator?

[[XC] NetburstXE]

That really sucks. I'm sorry.

[CedricFP]

I've fried a mobo, gfx and ram over the course of my wc "career". It's not an uncommon thing to happen. You learn over time and learn to become more meticulous. After that initial stage, and you got it down, you then relax. I recently put together my loop without bothering to test it first. I knew everything was gonna work - after a while you develop an intuition like that.

[003]

I've never actually fried anything with a WC accident. I recently came close, though. Had water leak onto my video card, got underneath the unisink and started to what looked like corrode some small SMD parts. I was only alerted to the problem when my video all of a sudden turned to garbled mess and I could no longer boot into windows. Ironically, this happened right in the middle of stress testing a new overclock, which made things worse because I thought the problem was with the CPU or something.

I only discovered what had happened when I disassembled my PC and noticed a tiny bit of wetness by a barb, that was right above the video card.

Took it out, took all the sinks off, and cleaned it with contact cleaner very thoroughly and scrubbed off the corrosion with the contact cleaner and a toothbrush. Amazingly, it now works good as new.

The only other major accident I had was when I first got into watercooling. I punctured a PA120.3 with a screw that was too long. Quite an expensive accident :( Needless to say, that has not happened since :)

[NaeKuh]

Tell me this is not you and you did not mix those koolance blocks with that beautiful PA?

http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showthread.php?t=291519

okey as i was playing on Extreme, what i dont understand is...

You got help there..

http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showthread.php?t=291760

And your coming to rant here? OR you hit a problem which couldnt be solved there, so you come here?

[MaXXimus]

First off the pic I posted was not mine, only using it as a reference. now as for going there and coming here...well, I also belong to another and depending upon the senerio I will post the same question in all 3 forums and compare the replies... it has nothing to do with wanting to rant, I joined all 3 differant forums around the exact same time. Kinda like getting a 2nd and 3rd opinion... dont see any harm in that :shrug:


Tell me this is not you and you did not mix those koolance blocks with that beautiful PA?

http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showthread.php?t=291519

okey as i was playing on Extreme, what i dont understand is...

You got help there..

http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showthread.php?t=291760

And your coming to rant here? OR you hit a problem which couldnt be solved there, so you come here?

[MaXXimus]

And I spoke to the place I purchased the rads at and no they will not be covered... and Im way past the return for a refund. Anyway... told me what was posted earlier in here, that they can be fixed very easily... recommended taken them to an auto radiator shop.

I have removed everything from the case and have opted to stick with air, so I will be posting a little later the list of things I have for sale... pretty much selling the entire lot as a whole and not single items. But considering they are brand new and the price Im gonna drop everything... it will be a literal steal.

[rangerone7669]

sorry to hear about your troubles, :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana: happens i suppose. and yes leaky rads are very easy to fix for a radiator shop. repairs would most likely cost less than shipping them back.

are you positive you punctured the rad with long screws? if both rads are leaking, and both were shipped to you in the same shipment. it is possible shipping damage.

my pa120.3 got delivered to my today for my new setup. looking at the rad, you can see that the water tubes are directly under the fan screw holes on mine. i'll have to pay special attention when i mount my fans.

you would think that the engineer who designed that rad would have made it where if too long of a screw was used that it would just thread into the honeycomb louvres. but i guess thats why engineers get payed the big dollars.

if you do decide to sell your gear, and part any of it out. i'd be interested in a pump.

[MaXXimus]

Im actually looking to sell the entire contents... lock, stock and barrel... makes it easier on me to recover a portion of my losses and as mentioned the price will be an actual steal. Actually half price to be correct... so even if there are items you dont need, you shold easily be able to re-sell them and make a profit. Tomorrow I will sit down and do as needed to post in the Sales threads and take pics of everything.

[Martinm210]

You can repair the rads with a simple soldering iron and some flux paste. I poked a hole in one of my MCR320's a while back and just soldered the pin hole.

It happens to alot of us. My first loop I spilled from the res into the PSU and fried it.

We've all gone through some pain. I'm pretty darn careful with the fan bolts now..:D

[MaXXimus]

Ya know WC is really cool but I guess I needed to learn the hard way that it wasnt meant for me. After the leaking started I sat there thinking of the headache of getting everything right and then this happening, it then dawned on me that having to go through all this again within 6 months or so to put new tubing on and yadda yadda was just more work then what I was willing to cope with. Items are all removed from my case, cleaned with distilled water and repackaged.

[Clue69Less]

What pump and res wil you have to sell?

[MaXXimus]

Im not parting anything out... complete package only, but the pumps are MCP655's and the res's are XSPC Dual Bay

[IanY]

Just for the benefit of everyone else. Before you screw any screws into a Thermochill (actually any radiator but especially a Thermochill because the channels are below the screw hole), get an expired credit card and use it as a shield. If the screws hit the credit card, the length is no good.

[MaXXimus]

Its funny though because I called up where I ordered from and he asks if I used the included screws. I said yes but then dawned on me that I didnt, actually used the ones that came with the rad grill... but anyway, the screws that come with the PA120.3 arent even long enough to go all the way through my Yate Loons LOL.

[IanY]

Here's the difference. The Yate Loons that you have are closed corner fans. You need 1-1/4 inch screws to go through the fan, into the gasket, then into the radiator.

Thermochill included 6/32 1/4 inch screws. They are meant for open corner fans into the gasket then into the radiator. If you don't use a gasket, there would also be a high likelihood that you would have punctured the radiator.

Thermochill's tolerances are tight, and they use self-tapping screws, which have sharp pointy ends, which punctures radiators doubly easy.

[gojirasan]

I really think you should give yourself a bit of time to cool off before just selling all your gear. I was treating my insanely expensive 120.3 like it was my baby or something and putting a huge dent into those beautiful fins and tubes hurt me almost physically. Like someone stabbing a knife into my belly. It took me at least a week before I could think clearly and rationally about things. I realize you need to use your computer. So go to air for a while then. But my advice is to keep your gear. It won't be worth any less in a month or two when you will have a better perspective on things.

[MaXXimus]

Its all good man, as mentioned earlier... the thought of having to go through the whole draining, retubing and all every 6 - 8 months is just not what Im looking for. Yes, I was already aware of this procedure before I started but until I actually went through the whole tubing and routing process for the first time, it became evident that this was a pain in the pooper and wasnt going to be my cup of tea. I gracefully bow down and tip my hat to all you guys who have sweet kick ass rigs and had the patience to push through the little speed bumps and get 'er done.

[Waterlogged]

Yes, never make a decision when your angry or upset, odds are 95% of the time you'll end up regretting it. Go air for now, think it over and have the rads fixed if you feel you'd like to give it another shot. Once you get bit by the WC bug, changing things doesn't seem like such a chore.

Hmm you've been without a rig for a week you say?... pfft, mere child's play for me, I've been without a gaming rig for over 2 years now, I think I should be the one upset. :( :mad:

[lennox]

it's not for everyone... I think most of the Xtreme addicts around here just love to build, and rebuild. Just like I do :cool:

[003]

Its all good man, as mentioned earlier... the thought of having to go through the whole draining, retubing and all every 6 - 8 months is just not what Im looking for. Yes, I was already aware of this procedure before I started but until I actually went through the whole tubing and routing process for the first time, it became evident that this was a pain in the pooper and wasnt going to be my cup of tea. I gracefully bow down and tip my hat to all you guys who have sweet kick ass rigs and had the patience to push through the little speed bumps and get 'er done.

You don't need to get new tubing if you start out with very good tubing, such as Tygon B-44-4X, 2075, 2275, etc... Also, if you stick with plain distilled water and the only additive you use is for pH balancing, corrosion inhibiting and surface tension lowering, and contains no dissolved solids, you likely won't need to flush and replace your coolant either. At least not for a very long time.

Water is worth it, trust me.

[MaXXimus]

Honestly Waterlogged this was not out of anger or frustration, it just took this to open my eyes that on a personal level I just dont have the patience it take to go through the retubing and all every so many months. When I had everything together I was more like "THANK GOD THATS OVER" and not "wow this is sweet".

I actually expeced to see one of the blocks leak considering I pulled them all apart to clean them and had some minor issues with some of the gaskets reseating properly... never did I once think that there would be a problem with the darned screws for the rads. I just assumed that since they came with the freakin grill an was meant for the PA then all was good. Hell... I thought the holes went all the way through, if I had known (or paid more attention) I would have been more careful...

[MaXXimus]

You don't need to get new tubing if you start out with very good tubing, such as Tygon B-44-4X, 2075, 2275, etc... Also, if you stick with plain distilled water and the only additive you use is for pH balancing, corrosion inhibiting and surface tension lowering, and contains no dissolved solids, you likely won't need to flush and replace your coolant either. At least not for a very long time.

Water is worth it, trust me.


I was using the Feser One coolant but figured on the first change I would go ahead and get that nice lookin Feser One UV tubing and go with distilled... ah well.

[NaeKuh]

First off the pic I posted was not mine, only using it as a reference. now as for going there and coming here...well, I also belong to another and depending upon the senerio I will post the same question in all 3 forums and compare the replies... it has nothing to do with wanting to rant, I joined all 3 differant forums around the exact same time. Kinda like getting a 2nd and 3rd opinion... dont see any harm in that :shrug:


:P

Well it just seemed kinda funny.

Anyhow, i think you punctured your radiator. Visually inspect where its leaking.

[MaXXimus]

Each rad has a single pinhole in the same spot.

Maybe someone in here can help me... what kind of paste is it that under the stock NB and SB? It wasnt a pad and wasnt regular paste. This stuff was as hard as a rock and took a hairdryer to pry it loose and took like an hour of rubbing it with acetal to get rid of it.

[Soulwind]

Sorry you had issues with your first build Maxximus.

Go back to air for now, but hang onto your stuff for awhile
(clean it good and just pack it up for now).

Give it a couple of weeks once you've got your machine running on air again. You just might surprise yourself and decide to give WC another go. I mean, there was a reason you decided to go WC in the first place, no?

If after a few weeks or so, you still decide to sell everything, then come back and do so. Those couple of weeks aren't going to affect the prices you'll be able to get and might just save you in the long run if you do change your mind again.

As far as horror stories, I don't have any yet from my first build. A few minor glitches, as I ran some tubing backwards and I ended up re-doing my loops last weekend to seperate my cpu/gpu onto different loops, but that's it.

(I'm using a fan shroud on my rads so I'm going -> Case -> Fans -> Shroud > Radiator, so I was able to use really small screws just to hook the shroud to the rad)

[shazza]

I hope you don't give up MaXXimus. You've done so much work already, it would be a shame not to get a chance to enjoy it.

You bit off a very EXTREME project for your first water cooling attempt, and you picked parts that took a while to get to you (343B), so I can see why you're frustrated and tired of the time it has taken. BUT ... you're going to end up with a beautiful system when it's done. HANG IN THERE!!!


EDIT: posted before reading page 2 ... looks like it is a done deal that MaXXimus is out of the water cooling business. I can understand ... if you don't enjoy the actual building process, and the tinkering, then it probably isn't worth it.

[MaXXimus]

Given up is an understatement... about 80% of my parts are already sold and flying out the door. I would say that maybe once Im back on my feet and working again, I will probably look at maybe trying again... but thats probably a good year down the road. I have a good system minus the water cooling right now and am very satisified. Yes I took a good hit on $$ with reselling but at this point between the frustration of what happened and needing the $$... was better to see some of that back in my pocket verus seeing parts collecting dust on a shelf and reminding me of the failure every time I see them.

I can say this much though... outside of the leaks my experience was fairly pleasant. I gained a ton of knowledge now on water cooling and of course also learned some valuable lessons after this attempt... but all in all, next time (if there is one) I will be able to tackle it like a professional football player. I was quite impressed with myself that I was able to get it all installed and loops looked awesome IMHO and that no leaks came from any of the fittings or the blocks... next time... SHORTER FREAKIN SCREWS for the rads LMAO... actually maybe even play it safe and go with a bracket system to hold them up and compleatly avoid screws near the rads... we shall see though.

[itznfb]

i've given up on watercooling, but for different reasons. i've found that with these new 45nm chips it doesn't matter what i use to cool it, whether it be a $5 hsf or a $400 watercooled system i get the same temps. there's about a 20c difference between my arctic cooler and my water system when using my Q6600, when using a Q9450 or E8400 there is about 1-2c difference. consistently, after about 50 mounts, the only thing i can do to get temps lower is use LN2 or phase. so i just went back to my TRUE's that give me better OC than the water system anyway

[Xilikon]

While it's always sad to see someone toss the towel on watercooling, I can understand this. It's not for everyone and if you look at building as a chore instead of a fun experience, it's not really a good idea.

I hope that in the future, you come back to WC when the pain of damaging the radiator will be gone. In the meanwhile, good luke with the air cooling venture ;)

[phelan1777]

Maxx,

my .000000000002

I killed my first PA, to long of a screw............it sucks...........so I took a torch to it, completely dissasembled it, and have a good idea of how they look inside :p.

I was frustrated, went through all the trouble, and............ended up screwing up the rad!.

But I still have my loop, and have parts for a second loop (waiting to buy block for GX2)

Just give it some time.

[IanY]

Second observation. Never watercool your only computer.

A person's got to at least have two computers, even if one is a notebook. Waiting for RMAs and shipments to arrive can be brutally painful.

[Clue69Less]

itznfb;2957998']i've given up on watercooling, but for different reasons. i've found that with these new 45nm chips it doesn't matter what i use to cool it, whether it be a $5 hsf or a $400 watercooled system i get the same temps. there's about a 20c difference between my arctic cooler and my water system when using my Q6600, when using a Q9450 or E8400 there is about 1-2c difference. consistently, after about 50 mounts, the only thing i can do to get temps lower is use LN2 or phase. so i just went back to my TRUE's that give me better OC than the water system anyway

My experience is different. I've got a 45nm CPU that idles (stock clock) right around ambient (19 to 20C last night) and loads all four cores in the high 30s to low 40s on water. On air with great airflow and excellents heat sinks, it idles a few degrees higher and loads in the low 50C range. If I overclock it, the OC is significantly limited on air even with a TRUE or IFX - I have both and have tried. On water, I can bench in the 4.6 to 4.7GHz range and have run Prime at 4.2 with very reasonable temps. On air, 3.6 is the limit for Prime and 4.0 for benches. Granted, I only have the CPU in its own loop, GPUs in their own loops and only have the NB/SB/VRMs in their own loop so I get excellent water flow. But I don't ask my IFX to cool my GPUs either...

[madmaxx]

Second observation. Never watercool your only computer.

A person's got to at least have two computers, even if one is a notebook. Waiting for RMAs and shipments to arrive can be brutally painful.

not always possible but definately helps

preparation is KEY

[IanY]

not always possible but definately helps

preparation is KEY


Even if the second computer is a Celeron 600... Pentium II 300. Its a computer that gets you on the internet to check your e-mail and order whatever computer parts you need to restore your main machine. Windows 3.11 has an internet browser lol

[MaXXimus]

LOL, on the Windows 3.11... talk about bringing back memories, boy those were the days loading Windows off diskettes.

[TheSilence]

It took me 4 weeks to get my first WC setup working, mostly due to the fact that I work a 9-6ish job and try and took a few vacations that severely limited my weekend time. Didn't clock the hours but it probably was about 25-35 hours of work. Most of the four weeks was spent ordering parts I missed and getting an RMA for a dead mobo. Right after the mobo turned up dead I really started to regret my decision, but stuck with it and now I have a very nice WC PC that gets great compliments and I'm proud of.

It's definitely not a cheap hobby, but that's why I went to school, got a good paying job, and now can afford whatever I want :)

[phelan1777]

Second observation. Never watercool your only computer.

A person's got to at least have two computers, even if one is a notebook. Waiting for RMAs and shipments to arrive can be brutally painful.

Don't remind me............I learned my lesson........:down: