Mom needs a computer

[sQuirrelybaby]

I'm thinking of building my mom a new computer. Doesn't do much but surf and use excel. I need a whole rig for >$450. Basic case is all thats needed. No lights.

Thanks.

[keiths]

Hmm, cheap, but still fast for the task, and quiet:

e1200 dual core celeron http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0287950 $50

A board with integrated video: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813135066 $43 after rebate

4GB of generic memory http://www.pricewatch.com/system_memory/ddr2-800_pc2-6400_2gb.htm $48

or from newegg for $55 after rebate: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820211271

I don't know, pick whatever case and powersupply for ~$45.
That said, for the power supply alone, this is a good price for an efficient 80plus unit for $45 that will keep the electricity cost down: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817170021 Perhaps use an old case, or pick one up off of craigslist.

low power, fast, silent 16GB compact flash drive for $60: http://www.mydigitaldiscount.com/ProductDetail.jsp?LISTID=8000060B-1200514765

IDE CF adapter $11, though there are cheaper, but this is quickie newegg reference: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822998002

My mom has never used more than 10GB of space on either system she's had through the years, but you can go the traditional route with a hard drive if you don't feel comfortable doing CF. For $70 you should be able to get an older model 320GB.

The rest put towards the biggest LCD you can get.

Eh, possibly get a DVD burner and blanks if she would ever use such.
Cheap Keyboard and mouse if you need those as well.

[xytrius]

An alternative is to just tell her to pick up a good deal from a major brand.

Relatives and close friends tend to demand free tech support from us and can be demanding; I would rather they just deal with tech support from the vendor. Besides, those vendor provided tech support guys are trained to talk to non-tech people and we sometimes have problems talking tech to non-tech guys.:)

[WrigleyVillain]

Relatives and close friends tend to demand free tech support from us and can be demanding; I would rather they just deal with tech support from the vendor.

QFT!

[squilliam]

Looking for the cheapest (so dont flame me).

$54 shipped. AMD X2 4000+ 2.1Ghz(really cheap, and a dual-core). http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103774

$57 shipped. AMD mobo w/ on-board video (It seems you forgot a mobo).
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157125

$39 shipped. PQI 2GB mem (I know it's not as cheap, but it's PQI).
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820141099

$46.30 shipped. WD 80GB SATA drive (spend less money + SS memory becomes rather laggy in Windows [the damn registry]).
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136195

$50 or so for some case and PSU.

= $246.3

[keiths]

My config is cheaper and faster:)

[xytrius]

keiths, how fast are the read/write speeds when you use the CF adapter (for regular tasks like surfing and office apps)? I'm thinking of getting one for my work computer. Also, have you worked with a SATA CF adapter? If you have, do you notice a speed difference? Thanks.

[xytrius]

QFT!

:) Haven't we all heard this - "Hey, since you're off tommorrow, why don't you come over and fix my tech stuff?"

[Entity_Razer]

Don't use compactflash for this kind of stuff, honestly its fast, lowpower and nice, but is it needed? No, will she ever "feel" the speed or power of that thing? No.

Buy her a cheap 80 GB Drive so she can create some of her own content if she wants, store family photo's, and recieve them in decent quantities.

16 GB is peanuts tbh for a windows disk, when windows + driver + office takes a good 10-12GB alone

[squilliam]

And with SSD (such as CF) Windows becomes dog slow after a while (Windows constantly writes to the registry). CF isn't made to be continuously written to. More meant for storage.

It's the same problem that plagues the Asus EEE when you put windows on it.
I've witnessed it firsthand.

And the RAM is good stuff, not just bottom of the barrel.

And well shoot. I had thought the Celeron 1200 was a single core, guess not.
I would use your config, sans CF and crap memory.

Go with the 80GB drive and better memory.

[ZOMGVTEK]

Seriously, i would say buy one from dell or something.

I found it to be a EXTREME hassle to have to 'help' people when the computer isnt working exactly as it was when they got it... ugh...

If all she does is surf the web, excell... etc. Just get a cheapo like $350 computer somewhere and be done with it.

[ZOMGVTEK]

:) Haven't we all heard this - "Hey, since you're off tommorrow, why don't you come over and fix my tech stuff?"

Yes, and then im forced into spending my day off working on a computer that isnt mine and is INSANELY slow.

[keiths]

keiths, how fast are the read/write speeds when you use the CF adapter (for regular tasks like surfing and office apps)? I'm thinking of getting one for my work computer. Also, have you worked with a SATA CF adapter? If you have, do you notice a speed difference? Thanks.

It's a 300x/150x CF; 45/22.5MB/s R/W. I don't have this CF yet, but I'm interested in getting it to replace a 30GB laptop drive that only does 28MB/s that has a hearing killing balling bearing high pitched whine.

[keiths]

And with SSD (such as CF) Windows becomes dog slow after a while (Windows constantly writes to the registry). CF isn't made to be continuously written to. More meant for storage.

It's the same problem that plagues the Asus EEE when you put windows on it.
I've witnessed it firsthand.

And the RAM is good stuff, not just bottom of the barrel.

And well shoot. I had thought the Celeron 1200 was a single core, guess not.
I would use your config, sans CF and crap memory.

Go with the 80GB drive and better memory.

You'll have to do better than that to shoe me away from CF. This isn't for overclocking, the memory just needs to work as is, which generic does fine at, and the newegg link I gave for $7 more is to 4GB of adata, a well known brand, for people who would be more comfortable with that. Either way, better result than going with 2GB.

[keiths]

Don't use compactflash for this kind of stuff, honestly its fast, lowpower and nice, but is it needed? No, will she ever "feel" the speed or power of that thing? No.

Buy her a cheap 80 GB Drive so she can create some of her own content if she wants, store family photo's, and recieve them in decent quantities.

16 GB is peanuts tbh for a windows disk, when windows + driver + office takes a good 10-12GB alone

Anyone will feel it from everyday usage. If he thinks his mom would use more storage, fine, but what he described is how my mom uses her computer, which she never uses more than 10GB. That's XP, office, surfing, email.

[xytrius]

It's a 300x/150x CF; 45/22.5MB/s R/W. I don't have this CF yet, but I'm interested in getting it to replace a 30GB laptop drive that only does 28MB/s that has a hearing killing balling bearing high pitched whine.

Thank you, keiths. Any ideas/suggestions on SATA/CF?

[keiths]

Yes! There are CF to SATA adapters, but cost more, or you can get the same result by chaining a cheap CF to IDE with a cheap IDE to SATA adapter. Compact Flash is just IDE with a different pinout, which the CF to IDE adapters merely do simple pin rerouting. The CF to SATA adapters add an IDE to SATA chip, which is what the IDE to SATA adapters are doing, so chaining gives you the same thing, but cheaper, and albeit, an uglier solution:)

[LagunaX]

I would just go to ubid.com and bid on a refurbished hp desktop.
You can find e6550/e6750 systems for about $300ish sometimes and definitely an amd dual core for less than $300. Q6600 systems are even $500ish...

[MentholMoose]

Buy them a Dell, or something, with a warranty and good tech support. I've built a computer for a relative before, and so every time there was a problem, I had to fix it. Any problem is urgent and needs to be fixed NOW NOW NOW. If any component failed, I ended up replacing it with one of my spares.

I replaced that PC with a Thinkpad laptop with docking station, with 4-year warranty and accidental damage protection. I underestimated the learning curve for using a laptop, but after that it has been smooth sailing. If anything breaks (either defective or accidental), Lenovo will either overnight replacement parts (for me to install), or send a tech out and install the parts (in case I'm busy or don't want to do it). Thinkpad tech support is US-based (in Atlanta), and the RMA process is no-hassle.

As for preventing problems, the best thing you can do is NOT give their normal user account admin privileges. This will help prevent them from getting spyware and such when they instinctively click "OK" on random dialogs. Other important things are to setup auto-updates for everything possible (software, Windows, etc.), especially anti-virus; make sure it's all automatic, because average people literally won't do ANY maintenance on their computer whatsoever (I originally set Windows Automatic Updates to require clicking the balloon and clicking "OK", and my relative wouldn't even do that much).

[Kingcarcas]

Buy them a Dell, or something, with a warranty and good tech support. I've built a computer for a relative before, and so every time there was a problem, I had to fix it. Any problem is urgent and needs to be fixed NOW NOW NOW. If any component failed, I ended up replacing it with one of my spares.

I replaced that PC with a Thinkpad laptop with docking station, with 4-year warranty and accidental damage protection. I underestimated the learning curve for using a laptop, but after that it has been smooth sailing. If anything breaks (either defective or accidental), Lenovo will either overnight replacement parts (for me to install), or send a tech out and install the parts (in case I'm busy or don't want to do it). Thinkpad tech support is US-based (in Atlanta), and the RMA process is no-hassle.

As for preventing problems, the best thing you can do is NOT give their normal user account admin privileges. This will help prevent them from getting spyware and such when they instinctively click "OK" on random dialogs. Other important things are to setup auto-updates for everything possible (software, Windows, etc.), especially anti-virus; make sure it's all automatic, because average people literally won't do ANY maintenance on their computer whatsoever (I originally set Windows Automatic Updates to require clicking the balloon and clicking "OK", and my relative wouldn't even do that much).
ROFL, it's all true man, find a deal on a $300 Dell and be done with it. :clap:

[Entity_Razer]

Anyone will feel it from everyday usage. If he thinks his mom would use more storage, fine, but what he described is how my mom uses her computer, which she never uses more than 10GB. That's XP, office, surfing, email.


No they won't tbh...

No way are you going to "feel the speed" while surfing, sending mails, or hell even doing some office crap. In a raid environment they ROCK, absolutely the best to get, but for a desktop they are to expensive/mb and also, as i said, its not noticeable....

And again, 16 GB is like.... 4 party's or family meets worth of foto's? thats nothing tbh.

[keiths]

Yeah they will, tbh...

[xytrius]

Yes! There are CF to SATA adapters, but cost more, or you can get the same result by chaining a cheap CF to IDE with a cheap IDE to SATA adapter. Compact Flash is just IDE with a different pinout, which the CF to IDE adapters merely do simple pin rerouting. The CF to SATA adapters add an IDE to SATA chip, which is what the IDE to SATA adapters are doing, so chaining gives you the same thing, but cheaper, and albeit, an uglier solution:)

Thanks man!:) In that case, I'll just go with CF/IDE.

Can you recommend any brand for the adapter? I found an insanely cheap adapter and am afraid of getting what I paid for!:)

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.711

EDIT: sorry for the threadjack

[keiths]

Looks fine. Being that is just pin rerouting, it's hard to screw up:)

[RAW-Raptor22]

An alternative is to just tell her to pick up a good deal from a major brand.

Relatives and close friends tend to demand free tech support from us and can be demanding; I would rather they just deal with tech support from the vendor. Besides, those vendor provided tech support guys are trained to talk to non-tech people and we sometimes have problems talking tech to non-tech guys.:)

The difference though is that for all of the systems I have built for friends and family, the components I use are much better quality and do not die like the traditional Dell would...;)

[RAW-Raptor22]

Don't use compactflash for this kind of stuff, honestly its fast, lowpower and nice, but is it needed? No, will she ever "feel" the speed or power of that thing? No.

Buy her a cheap 80 GB Drive so she can create some of her own content if she wants, store family photo's, and recieve them in decent quantities.

16 GB is peanuts tbh for a windows disk, when windows + driver + office takes a good 10-12GB alone

I know right...

Up until I built this rig I used a Celeron1200 with a 10GB maxtor 7200RPM in it. I hated uninstalling and reinstalling games every time I got bored of something... :rolleyes:

[xytrius]

Looks fine. Being that is just pin rerouting, it's hard to screw up:)

Thanks, and point taken! You had said earlier that it was just rerouting!:D

[xytrius]

Raptor22;2932018']The difference though is that for all of the systems I have built for friends and family, the components I use are much better quality and do not die like the traditional Dell would...;)

Agreed, and discrete parts also tend to have a better warranty - usually 3 years for board/proc and upto 5 years for HDD, compared to 1 year std for a box computer.

I guess my point was more selfish!:D

[MentholMoose]

Agreed, and discrete parts also tend to have a better warranty - usually 3 years for board/proc and upto 5 years for HDD, compared to 1 year std for a box computer.
That was part of my reasoning for building a PC for a relative (see my previous post). In practice, most component manufacturer warranties are insufficient, for two main reasons.

1) The time it takes for the RMA process is usually ridiculous. Almost nobody cross ships; a few places will do it, but only if you give them your credit card number. There will usually be some turnaround time, while they verify that they've received the defective part, test it, and who knows what else. If you want your replacement part shipped faster than ground shipping, they either won't do it, or they will charge you for the cost. And almost nobody will reimburse your shipping costs.

Maybe your relatives don't mind waiting two to four weeks (maybe more, depending on the manufacturer) for an RMA replacement part to arrive before you can fix their PC, but mine would freak out after just a few days. I ended up having to use my own spare parts to replace anything that failed. Of course I did build their PC using higher-end parts, so this was rare, but it still happened, and I would never assume that there is zero chance of hardware failure, even with the very best hardware.

In comparison, a good warranty from a system builder has 24/7/365 support. So for example, if something dies on Friday at 11PM, you can get someone on the phone and get the RMA process going. It's possible, if not likely (depending on the system builder and warranty level), that you will have the part before noon on Saturday, for no charge (at worst, Monday morning). If they require you to send the defective part back to them, they will provide a prepaid shipping label and a phone number to schedule a pick up.

Furthermore, some system builder warranties include next-business day on-site service, so if you are unavailable to visit your relative to fix their computer, the system builder will send a tech out to do it, again for no charge. I don't think any component manufacturer does this.

2) Component manufacturers almost never have a no-hassle RMA process. You always have to fill out a form of some sort. Many places require you to fax the form to them with your signature, which sucks if you don't own a fax machine. A few places even require that you also send a copy of the receipt to prove the warranty is not expired.

With a good warranty from a system builder, it's done entirely over the phone, and is almost certain to be much easier.

I always build my own PCs (except laptops), and I don't mind working around these hassles. But for the average person who can't fix their own PC, it is very reasonable to buy a PC from a system builder. If I have to provide support for someone else's PC (e.g. a relative), I would much rather it be from a good system builder, as long as it has good warranty support.

[Entity_Razer]

Yeah they will, tbh...

Sorry to sound like an ass, but here at school we have a server sizing lab where we pit SCSI (SAS) iSCSI, infiniband, CF and whatnot against eachother, and if your telling me your REALLY going to feel those 100miliseconds more it takes you to open up outlook....


Seriusly, unless your going to do a lot of read/Writes in fast sequence its not worth it. a Normal 80GB SATA disk will perform just as good, as long as you don't bloatware it, but hey even a CF disk has problems with that.

The Hardware only goes that far, windows is still windows and a screwed up registry will still :banana::banana::banana::banana: over your performance.

agreed the degradation curve is less steep on a CF but seriusly, we have defragmentation for that

[keiths]

Strawman argument. It's not the negligible situations where the improvement matters. There's plenty of moments in run of the mill activity where things stick/pause/chug from accessing a hard drive, which CF makes go away.

[Entity_Razer]

Examples please?

I'll gladly admit its usefull for aps like Photoshop or 3DSMax or a whole variaity of other things. But none of those things is what your mother will be doing...;

[nn_step]

just a thought but http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834280009
$349.99 + shipping and should be good enough for her needs

[RAW-Raptor22]

just a thought but http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834280009
$349.99 + shipping and should be good enough for her needs

Too bad that has a VIA CPU, my Tualatin PIII-s would walk all over that... :p:

[nn_step]

Raptor22;2937797']Too bad that has a VIA CPU, my Tualatin PIII-s would walk all over that... :p:

so?
it has sufficient performance for excel and web browsing....