What's the point of a phase change unit?

[Shift]

I asked a question on another board about a phase change unit. Guys says this particular Vapochill can handle a quad stocked and not overclocked. I found that proposterous and then another guys says you have to mod the watts or whatever for it to be able to handle a quad...

what the hell a Vapochill sounds useless. If a $30 heatsink can handle a quad overclocked, then why would anyone get one of these for everyday use? Thing eats a ton of watts, plus it's gianormous, expensive, noisy and then you have to put insulation and worry condensation doesn't screw up your board.

I don't understand why anyone would get one

[Eldonko]

Phase = more mhz = why people buy them.

[Shift]

Phase = more mhz = why people buy them.

yeah but unless you mod them then they can't even handle an overclocked quad :confused:

and I'm not talking about getting-your-epeen-bigger-because-you-got-the-WR on a chip phase change unit; I'm talking about everyday usage; it doesn't seem practical in my book.

[ZenEffect]

try running 1.7 volts through a quad and see what your load temps are :)

[n00b 0f l337]

Basically phase allows you to do more, the Vapo is an older unit without a new revision and yes cannot handle the high load of a current quad with 1.6vcore or so like we like to run with phase. Other then that, at the same voltage you might run your air cooled setup, a phase will get you alot more.

[star882]

The real point of phase change is to decrease Johnson-Nyquist noise and electrical resistance.

[[XC] gomeler]

You are also talking about a unit that was designed in the era of single-core chips. Without a revision for these heavier loads, the VapoLS has a lot of trouble going above 4GHz with a 65nm chip. With just a few tweaks though and that unit screams. Direct die phase change really unleashes that final 20% of performance that you cannot get with ambient cooling.

[hecktic]

Basically phase allows you to do more, the Vapo is an older unit without a new revision and yes cannot handle the high load of a current quad with 1.6vcore or so like we like to run with phase. Other then that, at the same voltage you might run your air cooled setup, a phase will get you alot more.

n00b 0f l337 FTW :yepp: :yepp: :yepp: :yepp:

[4X_FTL]

gomeler;2910020']You are also talking about a unit that was designed in the era of single-core chips. Without a revision for these heavier loads, the VapoLS has a lot of trouble going above 4GHz with a 65nm chip. With just a few tweaks though and that unit screams. Direct die phase change really unleashes that final 20% of performance that you cannot get with ambient cooling.

That almost precisely exactly mirrors my experience.

My stock VapoLS can push my B3 stepping QX6700 to 4GHz at 1.55V and hold it at 100% load 24/7 without instability (small FFT) but if I push the GHz any higher then I do overload my VapoLS and the temps skyrocket and she crashes.

Still though, what could put out more heat than a B3 stepping 65nm quad? I can't imagine how high of a clock I'd have to put a yorkfield to in order to overload my VapoLS.

[harvshark]

LOL......it's one of those trick questions......
If you have to ask, you wouldn't understand.......

Hiya n00b 0f l337.......

The phase unit ya built me quite awhile ago is still churnin' out them -30c temps or so on a Penryn QX9650 oc'd at 1.66v to 4.58ghz......

Was kindy funny....somebody on the Seti Number Crunching forums was asking how much it cost me to phase cool, and I linked them to this forum.....had not been here in a coon's age......
Glad to see you are still active here.....this thing may burn up some day and I'll need a replacement....LOL.

BTW.....are temps getting any lower on SS units, or is the -30c I am getting still about the norm?

Best regards,
Mark.

[n00b 0f l337]

About the norm, yours was tuned for much higher capacity, now adays we don't need as much it would seem and lately I've only really pushed for 250W max, yours was holding and laughing.

[harvshark]

About the norm, yours was tuned for much higher capacity, now adays we don't need as much it would seem and lately I've only really pushed for 250W max, yours was holding and laughing.

It's still laughing, my friend......a real cold hard laugh.....LOL...

Yeah, I think you were tuning mine for 300 watts or so, if I recall correctly.....
But you did a good job, I dunno what blend you finally ended up with for refrig, but the thing is just perfect......handles the load.......and the wonderful thing is....and I know I was concerned about it at the time....is if the rig crashes.....it is still OK......
In fact, I have awaken in the middle of the night once or twice to the little percolating sounds.....and knew I had to reboot the rig.....just teeeeeeeeeny little perks.......but enough to hear....
Every day when I get home from work, I can tell if the Penny has a problem just by dropping my palm on the top of the compressor.......I know by the temp of the shell whether the cpu is loading it or not......funny stuff......
But I must go now......see ya in another couple of months or so......or ya can PM me over on the Seti boards.....

And just so's y'all don't think this or the last post was totally off topic, I think n00b can refresh you on the fact that I had him build me a unit after I toasted a Vapochill......

That was then, this is now......quads don't consume (or dissipate) as much power in heat as they used to.......it was quite an issue at the time, and the stock VP's were tossing their cookies on a regular basis......may not be the same story now.....I have not kept up with it 'cuz my n00b unit is still running strong.....crunching Seti 24/7.....for months...guess I musta used enough silicone grease, eh?

[n00b 0f l337]

Definitly :)
Good to see its still pumping harv, great compressor in that unit too. Should pump for years to come ;)

[AliG]

yeah but unless you mod them then they can't even handle an overclocked quad :confused:

and I'm not talking about getting-your-epeen-bigger-because-you-got-the-WR on a chip phase change unit; I'm talking about everyday usage; it doesn't seem practical in my book.

that's why hardly any serious ocers here buy vapochills etc, instead they either build their own or buy them from builders here. You can get a phase change tailored to your exact needs, only problem for 24/7 is the high power consumption, other than that as long as you insulate its just as practical as water (more expensive, but your cpu will be able to handle voltage better and have far lower temps)

[harvshark]

that's why hardly any serious ocers here buy vapochills etc, instead they either build their own or buy them from builders here. You can get a phase change tailored to your exact needs, only problem for 24/7 is the high power consumption, other than that as long as you insulate its just as practical as water (more expensive, but your cpu will be able to handle voltage better and have far lower temps)
Yup.....I can vouch for the high power bills......but that's part of the game, I guess......
And the Penny has been running at max voltage on my P5K Deluxe for months now.....1.7v in bios, 1.66 measured by Asus Probe.......24/7 for months now........

[AliG]

Hmm, even for phase I wouldn't recommend running 24/7 1.7v, that's definitely going to affect your processor's lifespan

[[XC] riptide]

I asked a question on another board about a phase change unit. Guys says this particular Vapochill can handle a quad stocked and not overclocked. I found that proposterous and then another guys says you have to mod the watts or whatever for it to be able to handle a quad...

what the hell a Vapochill sounds useless. If a $30 heatsink can handle a quad overclocked, then why would anyone get one of these for everyday use? Thing eats a ton of watts, plus it's gianormous, expensive, noisy and then you have to put insulation and worry condensation doesn't screw up your board.

I don't understand why anyone would get one

Shift. I got a Vapochill LS. And as Gomeler can testify from our msn's on the matter it is close to useless for an overclocked quad. I could get somewhere around >4Ghz for a 0% load screenshot. Great:rolleyes: . But for 24/7 100% load, where I run my machines, it is useless. And is no better than water. That is becasue I reackon the heat moving ability of a LS is about 170-180Ws MAX. My water setup exceeds that. So although at ~150W I could keep the quad at maybe -40. Once you go beyond the 170-180W mark the temps slowly crawl up and just keep going until they breach 0C.

it was interesting at one point, I had it on the very limit of its ability. Once I closed the window near to it, the overall sytem crossed the line and the temps slowly crawl up over 30mins.

Now for teh dual cores? Yep. Sure it'll do it justice.

[deadman'sclick]

i always thought as i hav no experince, that if u cooled a cpu enough it would just o/c without the need for extra voltage?

e.g. a cpu @ say 1.7v for its given Ghz o/c, would need only say 1.35v for the same Ghz speed when cooled well below room temps with phase, LN2 or a tec?

also in the same throw, a stock speed cpu could run without the need for its stock voltage under phase?

[Stigma]

yeah but unless you mod them then they can't even handle an overclocked quad :confused:

and I'm not talking about getting-your-epeen-bigger-because-you-got-the-WR on a chip phase change unit; I'm talking about everyday usage; it doesn't seem practical in my book.

I think your missing the point...

Phasechange in general rocks! Commercially availiable units like vapochill sucks!
Basically its like you say - the units are underpowered and (very) overpriced.

If you want to get into phasechange, look no further than this forum. The masters here will make you that is more than twice as powerful for under half the price. I really can't fathom why anyone would buy a commercial unit unless they just didn't know any better.

My own unit most assuredly handles a quad hehe... how does a Q6600 @ 4,275Ghz sound? ;) That thing produces way more than twice the normal amount of heat as it is, and my unit still keeps it at -40'ish when playing heavy games like Crysis or whatnot. Its all about getting a unit that can handle the load you want it to handle thats all. Unfortunately even the most expensive (and they ARE damn expensive) vapochills are still weak or mediocre at best when it comes to capacity, so I can definitely believe they will struggle to keep up with an OC'ed quad.

-Stigma

[[XC] riptide]

Crysis isn't heavy. Try Quad Folding, or WCG, or 'S. or Bust'! THATS loaded. :D

deadman'sclick >>> Yes you are correct about the voltage. That cooled down, a CPU doesn't need the same voltage at a given clock. But still, once you try to go up with clocks, you will at some point need the higher voltage. And both clock increase and voltage incresae on their own, start giving off more heat.

[Polizei]

rip, I knew you would come in here and derail this thread, haha. You WCG guys...

It's either sheep or WCG/DC with you, isn't it? ;)

[[XC] riptide]

rip, I knew you would come in here and derail this thread, haha. You WCG guys...

It's either sheep or WCG/DC with you, isn't it? ;)

:up: STFU Ohio man. This thread is serious business. :lol:

[Jon Boy Deluxe]

Phase it totally viable for 24/7 if you insulate well and are prepared for the electricity bills and noise!

The point of phase is you can OC your chip higher than you possibly could on air/water if you are not fsb limited...

I plan to get one toward the end of the year but I don't want one building if it needs the head and mounting changing for nehalem.

[Section8]

I think your missing the point...

Phasechange in general rocks! Commercially availiable units like vapochill sucks!
Basically its like you say - the units are underpowered and (very) overpriced.

If you want to get into phasechange, look no further than this forum. The masters here will make you that is more than twice as powerful for under half the price. I really can't fathom why anyone would buy a commercial unit unless they just didn't know any better.

My own unit most assuredly handles a quad hehe... how does a Q6600 @ 4,275Ghz sound? ;) That thing produces way more than twice the normal amount of heat as it is, and my unit still keeps it at -40'ish when playing heavy games like Crysis or whatnot. Its all about getting a unit that can handle the load you want it to handle thats all. Unfortunately even the most expensive (and they ARE damn expensive) vapochills are still weak or mediocre at best when it comes to capacity, so I can definitely believe they will struggle to keep up with an OC'ed quad.

-Stigma

Well in my defense for owning a Vapo I purchased it like 6 years ago and it is now being modded by Jin :) Back then I am not even sure this forum was here? Maybe it was but yeah if I had to do it again I would for sure have one custom built.