Creative Labs to sue a driver modder (Daniel_K) [Archive]

end3rkid

03-28-2008, 09:07 PM

Daniel_K:

We are aware that you have been assisting owners of our Creative sound cards for some time now, by providing unofficial driver packages for Vista that deliver more of the original functionality that was found in the equivalent XP packages for those sound cards. In principle we don't have a problem with you helping users in this way, so long as they understand that any driver packages you supply are not supported by Creative. Where we do have a problem is when technology and IP owned by Creative or other companies that Creative has licensed from, are made to run on other products for which they are not intended. We took action to remove your thread because, like you, Creative and its technology partners think it is only fair to be compensated for goods and services. The difference in this case is that we own the rights to the materials that you are distributing. By enabling our technology and IP to run on sound cards for which it was not originally offered or intended, you are in effect, stealing our goods. When you solicit donations for providing packages like this, you are profiting from something that you do not own. If we choose to develop and provide host-based processing features with certain sound cards and not others, that is a business decision that only we have the right to make.

Although you say you have discontinued your practice of distributing unauthorized software packages for Creative sound cards we have seen evidence of them elsewhere along with donation requests from you. We also note in a recent post of yours on these forums, that you appear to be contemplating the release of further packages. To be clear, we are asking you to respect our legal rights in this matter and cease all further unauthorized distribution of our technology and IP. In addition we request that you observe our forum rules and respect our right to enforce those rules. If you are in any doubt as to what we would consider unacceptable then please request clarification through one of our forum moderators before posting.

Phil O'Shaughnessy
VP Corporate Communications
Creative Labs Inc.

Source
http://forums.creative.com/creativelabs/board/message?board.id=soundblaster&thread.id=116332

Digg :yepp:
http://digg.com/hardware/Creative_threatens_community_modder

One_Hertz

03-28-2008, 09:35 PM

I am with creative on this one... He went too far.

iadstudio

03-28-2008, 09:39 PM

Doesnt seem right he is asking for donations.

Case closed. Pretty clear laws on this.

Nelly

03-28-2008, 09:39 PM

ThunderChunky

03-28-2008, 09:40 PM

They aren't suing him.

frupert

03-28-2008, 09:44 PM

I agree Creative should tackle this issue in a lot more friendlier way and at least attempt to hire him... Who knows, maybe they have tried... But yeah accepting donations aint right...

aiya_au

03-28-2008, 09:44 PM

They aren't suing him.

exactly what I was thinking..

003

03-28-2008, 09:45 PM

What did he do exactly?

rusty

03-28-2008, 09:50 PM

donations are optional in most cases so if you don't wanna pay just don't pay, creative sucks I had several cards including the expensive ones their support sucks a... they should stop outsourcing those lame "programmers"

Nelly

03-28-2008, 09:56 PM

exactly what I was thinking..Modified Creative software so it was compatable in Vista for one so it was fully fuctional just like it was in XP.

munim

03-28-2008, 10:01 PM

That's a pretty decent e-mail or letter, props.

TRF-Inferno

03-28-2008, 10:02 PM

This is more like a Cease & Desist letter.

Brother Esau

03-28-2008, 10:04 PM

They should employ the guy, he's obviously got more talent than the rubbish Creative software writers - 1 guy making improvements in which a company like Creative seem to struggle.

I dont think I'll buy products from Creative anymore, they just cannot deliver in terms of software support / compatability.

I agree with you whole heartedly on this one Nelly! Obviously if CREATIVE Driver team did not suck so bad at coding software for their Hardware people such as this fella wouldn't need to do such things to provide people with decent drivers for their Hardware products from CREATIVE:shakes:

Personally I went Auzentech about 9 months ago and I have not looked back since! Auzentech just makes a superior product PERIOD and no Bull Sh**t CREATIVE software to plague my system any longer.

imapwnu

03-28-2008, 10:14 PM

WTF Creative?

Hire him to do QA or development on your drivers

I thought you guys would know better?

fart_plume

03-28-2008, 10:21 PM

There is a creative labs facility about 30 miles from where I'm at in Stillwater, Ok. Knew a couple of guys who worked there and from them I could tell how lame they were years ago. The first indication was when i talked to one of these guys and He started bragging on their new video card(serval years ago). When I told him that it had already been reveiwed by Maximum PC and the the Nvidia and Amd cards at the time that it was compared to blew it out of the water, he wouldn't believe me. About a month later He comes up to me and tells me they stoppedallthe research on it and shut down their video card unit..........

bluehaze

03-28-2008, 10:28 PM

Seems like a typical politically correct letter from Creative. don't know all the details of the incident but if as was stated the guy was enabling full functionality in Vista that was previously available to owners of Creative sound cards using XP then Creative should rot in hell...if not and the guy is doing something illegal here and asking for donations in the process well then go Creative shut him down :cool:

Zytek_Fan

03-28-2008, 10:31 PM

Maybe Creative shouldn't make such rubbish drivers :rolleyes:

Omastar

03-28-2008, 10:33 PM

Uh oh, Joe Blow is making us look bad. Shut him down!

fart_plume

03-28-2008, 10:35 PM

I bought one of there sound blaster live cards, had to rma it and i have never had one of their live cards work right.

Brother Esau

03-28-2008, 11:05 PM

AUZENTECH......FTW!!!!!!!!:yepp:

zanzabar

03-28-2008, 11:07 PM

if it wasnt for that guy i know atleast 10 people personally who wouldent have gotten creative cards

AUZENTECH......FTW!!!!!!!!:yepp:

their cards even do better with his drivers (atleast the xfi based one)

003

03-28-2008, 11:23 PM

Nelly

03-28-2008, 11:25 PM

I think this about sums up the real truth behind it.
Where we do have a problem is when technology and IP owned by Creative or other companies that Creative has licensed from, are made to run on other products for which they are not intended. We purchased your products in good faith with said technology and intellectual property in a working state. It is Creative who chose of their own free will to use Vista as an excuse to purposefuly disable that technology and intellectual property effectively bricking hardware that people paid good money to Creative for. You have absolutely no moral right to complain becuase people are getting what they actualy paid for, albeit from a non Creative source. If you lot had pulled your finger out a year ago, this would not be a problem. Your statement only further proves that this was no more than a financial decision on Creatives part, and nothing to do with wether or not the hardware was capable, becuase it obviously was. I feel Creative saw this as an opertunity to con the consumer into believing that by adopting the Windows Vista operating system, they would be required the purchase new Creative hardware to once again be in a position to take advantage of Creatives technology and intellectual property, a blatent missuse of Creatives market position and extremely bad business practice. Creative has taken their customer base for idiots plain and simple, unfortunately for you, we're not, and incase you were any doubt of that, take a look at your finances. Its only going to get worse.

Brother Esau

03-28-2008, 11:34 PM

if it wasnt for that guy i know atleast 10 people personally who wouldent have gotten creative cards

their cards even do better with his drivers (atleast the xfi based one)

Worst choice they ever made was to get wrapped up with CREATIVE because EAX does Jack all :down: Many have brought that argument to the table with gaming and my card runs flawlessly with superb clarity in gaming without EAX and I had a XFI Platinum before this card and hands down CREATIVE Sucks next to Auzentech across the board and I was one of the lucky XFI owners that never had issue one with the card .

WeaponX

03-28-2008, 11:36 PM

Well, you're not forced install the software package that Creative provides, you can just install the drivers. Not defending Creative, just saying, if you don't like the software, don't install it.

STEvil

03-29-2008, 12:07 AM

still lacking features whether you install the software or not.

Either way I dont care, i've been boycotting Creative for years.

ziddey

03-29-2008, 01:53 AM

What's the big deal?

First off, he's not forcing everyone with xfi and vista to buy his drivers. Further, for people who want to try out his driver, he's not making them pay either, but rather accepting donations. Dude's trying to clean up after creative's shortcomings, to be polite. And if people are grateful, they'll donate a little. Hell, at this point, Creative has already made its money off you, since you already own the card. And further hell (;)), if the driver is really bomb, Creative could save money on their own driver dev team and just let him fix things up (sake of point, not accuracy). And then, people may be more inclined to buy xfi cards since they know there are bomb ass drivers available.

Good grief Creative. The only thing bad in your case is that dude is making you look bad. Beyond that, you suffer nothing.

zanzabar

03-29-2008, 01:55 AM

a big point is that he keeps the SBA1/2 up to date and keeps them running so u dont have to buy an xfi and they sound better

and he uses aniso with the sba1/2 were the xfi dosnt support it so it makes them much better

Peakr

03-29-2008, 02:14 AM

Sounds like his drivers kick ass. Anywhere you can still download these puppies?

C0ncrete

03-29-2008, 02:33 AM

Go die in a house fire Creative.

Syn.

03-29-2008, 02:50 AM

This letter was very nicley written, maybe they should get their communications team to write the code for their drivers.

Mortal

03-29-2008, 03:22 AM

It took whatever he did to get ASIO working correctly on my machine, as well as my volume slider to remember its place. I wish they would have just employed the guy so he could continue his good work.

Then again, they'd probably knee-cap most of his good ideas if he actually worked for them.

halo112358

03-29-2008, 03:22 AM

This letter was very nicley written, maybe they should get their communications team to write the code for their drivers.

And shortly after after the driver team takes over writing all of their communications would turn into multi-volume, out-dated, badly written garbage...

BrowncoatGR

03-29-2008, 04:16 AM

Well if i understood the issue correctly, it is that he enabled HW options for pre-XFI cards on Windows Vista, something Creative actually charges its users for. Imo its quite unethical to charge people for drivers for products that arent even that old (Audigy4) and that they have already developed because it was also needed for their newer cards. Regardless of that from a legal perspectve its probably within their rights to do this. A shame Asus forced Auzentech to work with Creative.

HellasVagabond

03-29-2008, 04:22 AM

The X-fi is the most advanced Audio chipset around at the moment ( At least for Gaming purposes ) so Auzentech really didnt have a choice but to team up with Creative.

BrowncoatGR

03-29-2008, 04:38 AM

The X-fi is the most advanced Audio chipset around at the moment ( At least for Gaming purposes ) so Auzentech really didnt have a choice but to team up with Creative.

Cept that Auzentech's focus isnt on gaming. Any creative card is good at that. Its Audio playback that they dont do that great(Although with pc speakers i dont think the difference would be audible). The issue is that Asus got itself an exclusive deal on the C-Media CMI8788( I think they might have bought the design) chip which was the chip used by Auzentech and quite a few other new audiophile soundcards. With not many alternatives around Auzentech had no choice but to make a deal with Creative. Not sure if VIA's latest audio chip could have been a viable alternative. Anyway creative really need to change their tactics or they re going to become irrelevant soon enough.

HellasVagabond

03-29-2008, 04:57 AM

The CMI8788 chip if it is the one found in the ASUS XONAR cards cannot compete with the X-Fi chip.

Syn.

03-29-2008, 05:29 AM

The CMI8788 chip if it is the one found in the ASUS XONAR cards cannot compete with the X-Fi chip.

X-Fi chip is good but if you cant use it then that makes it worthless. All cards that have X-Fi chip must use drivers made by Creative which is not the best thing in the world.

As far as i know AV200 is ASUS mod of CMI8788. I also find it funny how people have to "hand in their badges" in IT industry for jobs to be done right.

HellasVagabond

03-29-2008, 05:42 AM

So why do you own a Razer Barracuda card ? From what i hear they still havent released a full functioning VISTA driver..........

Syn.

03-29-2008, 05:51 AM

So why do you own a Razer Barracuda card ? From what i hear they still havent released a full functioning VISTA driver..........

Really? Damn, did you actually check the Razer website for drivers, maybe?

http://www.razersupport.com/index.php?_m=downloads&_a=viewdownload&downloaditemid=112

Supported Operating System
Windows Vista 32-bit
Windows Vista 64-bit

Driver v2.22c

English

12 Feb 2008 01:16 AM

Razer has had stable Vista drivers since March 2007. The latest 2.22c fixes minor annoying bugs and i never had any sound corruption or BSOD's with AC-1. I have had Dolby Digital and DTS support since the first driver. Oh and as a side note C-Media is yet to release Vista drivers for the chip used in AC-1, Razer driver team modded the XP one very well.

I should mention that i upgraded from X-Fi Fatal1ty, which is now called Sound Blaster® X-Fi Fatal1ty FPS (http://uk.europe.creative.com/products/product.asp?category=209&subcategory=669&product=14000).

RPGWiZaRD

03-29-2008, 05:59 AM

If anything Creative should hire this guy, Creative's driver team sucks major ass, right now I'm using a 3rd party driver "kX audio" for my Creative Audigy and it's only cuz of this driver that is superior to Creative ones in all possible way I'm not concidering an X-Fi (and other brands are too expensive for me and I want one that's good for gaming) as I think my Audigy with these drivers is probably just as good or better than having an X-Fi with Creative's crap drivers. Sound quality and 3D sound position is like perfect with these and I think right now the only way to get proper 3D sound postioning sound in even the consolized UT3 game for PC. (X-Fi users are complaining about it in the forums) :p:

If Creative could improve quality of their drivers, that would be a major lift for the company, the products are fine and price/performance is really good but their driver support is crap.

Pinacolada

03-29-2008, 06:09 AM

I own Creative Xi-Fi Gamer but it's the last sound card I bought ever next time I'm going to stick to mobo sound,they support is extremly poor (no new drivers no new utilities)

HellasVagabond

03-29-2008, 06:21 AM

Really? Damn, did you actually check the Razer website for drivers, maybe?

http://www.razersupport.com/index.php?_m=downloads&_a=viewdownload&downloaditemid=112

Razer has had stable Vista drivers since March 2007. The latest 2.22c fixes minor annoying bugs and i never had any sound corruption or BSOD's with AC-1. I have had Dolby Digital and DTS support since the first driver. Oh and as a side note C-Media is yet to release Vista drivers for the chip used in AC-1, Razer driver team modded the XP one very well.

I should mention that i upgraded from X-Fi Fatal1ty, which is now called Sound Blaster® X-Fi Fatal1ty FPS (http://uk.europe.creative.com/products/product.asp?category=209&subcategory=669&product=14000).

A guy that owns the Barracuda over at Creative forums said the driver is beta
and not fully functional. Are you sure the "moded" from xp to vista driver is fully functional ?

Syn.

03-29-2008, 06:34 AM

A guy that owns the Barracuda over at Creative forums said the driver is beta
and not fully functional. Are you sure the "moded" from xp to vista driver is fully functional ?

v2.22c is BETA the one before it, v2.22b, was not. To be honest it does not seem like a BETA i think they just stick that on because the driver is still being tested, it always works. Yes i am quite sure i can use all features that come with this card which is why i call it "fully functional".

Razer Fidelity™ gaming audio engine - works
Razer Enhanced Sonic Perception™ - works
Integrated 24-bit / 192KHz S/PDIF receiver/transmitter - works
Dolby® Prologic IIx surround processor - works
Dolby® Digital Live 5.1 encoder - works
Dolby® Headphone technology - works
Dolby® Virtual Speaker - works
DTS® NeoPC - works
DTS® Interactive real-time encoder - works
7.1-channel digital audio playback - works
Supports EAX™ 2.0, Aureal3D™ 1.0 and DirectSound - broken on Vista due to DX10

You dont think other XP drivers where modded to work on Vista? Not many companies have created new drivers from scratch because they dont really need to if it works it works.

SoulsCollective

03-29-2008, 06:44 AM

So, as far as I can tell, there's nothing wrong with his X-Fi drivers as there's no issues with enabling hardware locked by Creative?

Can anyone link to Vista x64 modded drivers?

NotFred

03-29-2008, 07:29 AM

I'm confused as to why people have a problem with this. They state quite clearly that they don't have any issues with him making XP x-fi drivers work on Vista, or enhancing the drivers.

What they have a problem with is making the software for the X-fi cards work with other cards (which I imagine would be 3rd party cards using the Xfi chips as well as older creative cards). When you buy an X-fi card you are paying for the software package as well. When you buy another card (be it an older creative card or a 3rd party card) you have not paid for the creative X-fi software and drivers. Hate to say it, but I agree with creative here...

XSAlliN

03-29-2008, 07:39 AM

I never underspend the preselection of software division (driver related) among the biggest companies (ATi, nVidia, Creative...). How could they be so stupid to hire an army of non talented people and do nothing about their situation.

I bet those guys spend 10 minutes per day for Drivers improving/fixing and the rest of the time ( 7 Hours and 50 minutes) it's used for playing WoW, CS or browsing the web and chatting. That's the only way I can explain their results...

RADCOM

03-29-2008, 07:45 AM

This letter was very nicley written, maybe they should get their communications team to write the code for their drivers.:rofl:
anyone have the readme for the drivers?

DFI pit bull

03-29-2008, 07:49 AM

Creative’s driver team are all morons, I often wonder what they actually do then they are in the office, they don’t do much work that’s for sure. At the very least their Manager should be sacked and replaced with someone that can get results, after all English football has had a few sackings recently.

I wish one day somebody with a good lawyer would sue Creative.

Borgod

03-29-2008, 08:33 AM

Goodbye Creative, hello Asus.

NotFred

03-29-2008, 08:35 AM

Isnt that exactly what this is about? Creative trying to stop people using thier software with Asus cards (and other obviously).

Sam666

03-29-2008, 08:37 AM

I'm happpy with my Razer Card and HP1 Headset,

Win :)

Eddie3dfx

03-29-2008, 09:50 AM

I was thinking of purchasing the card.
Forget about that now. I cannot stand by a company that does this to people.
They could of just hired this guy if they felt he was so much of a threat to them.

fireice2

03-29-2008, 10:05 AM

@brotha_esau

I agree with ya brotha! Auzen FTW!

Creative should really hire the guy if they want their asses back on track. Their drivers seems to cause users a lot of PITA that's why I stayed away from their product lineup even though the specs are great.

CERO

03-29-2008, 10:18 AM

arent auzentech drivers still comming from creative or they got nothing to do with creative except for the X-fi chips?

fireice2

03-29-2008, 10:31 AM

I believe they started out with creative drivers for the prelude and their driver team is slowly developing their own.I haven't had much info on the prelude cards.

As for the Xplosion, its teh best bang for buck card for me. :up:

NH|Delph1

03-29-2008, 10:36 AM

Please change the title. It's just a cease and desist, not a suit.

//Andreas

Zytek_Fan

03-29-2008, 12:51 PM

Goodbye Creative, hello Asus.

Creative is also pissed off at Asus now because Asus is adding EAX support :rofl:

HellasVagabond

03-29-2008, 01:22 PM

arent auzentech drivers still comming from creative or they got nothing to do with creative except for the X-fi chips?

The chips, the drivers and the apps are coming from Creative...Now if Auzentech is modifying them thats another story which i dont know.

Creative is also pissed off at Asus now because Asus is adding EAX support :rofl:

Asus cant add EAX support for 2 reasons. A) The CMI8788 chip does not support EAX 4,5 B) Shouldnt Asus buy the rights for EAX from Creative in the first place ?

halo112358

03-29-2008, 02:22 PM

The Audigy drivers by Daniel_K are available on bittorrent.

I use torrentscan.com and I found them under isoHunt

Creative.Soundblaster.Audigy.Series.Vista.Drivers[by.daniel_k]

Have you seen his XFi drivers anywhere? Supposedly they're pretty good for prelude users.

kiwi

03-29-2008, 02:44 PM

Guys, developing drivers is not that as easy as you think. You should be happy what you have now or go and buy PRO sound cards that are much more expensive than creative ones

halo112358

03-29-2008, 02:47 PM

Yeah you are right, drivers are so hard to make that 1 guy managed to do what an entire team hasnt. :rolleyes:

Eh, in their defense he did only customize their already existing drivers.

kiwi

03-29-2008, 02:51 PM

What issues do you have?

DeathReborn

03-29-2008, 02:56 PM

Guys, developing drivers is not that as easy as you think. You should be happy what you have now or go and buy PRO sound cards that are much more expensive than creative ones

Comsistently releasing crippled drivers & intentionally shortchanging customers to earn more sales is too easy it seems. Creative should be in court for crapping on its customers from a great height.

The long and the short of it is that they created themselves a monopoly & are now abusing it to the detriment of both the industry & most importantly, its customers.

As of 2 months ago I am Creative free. Not a single chip, speaker or mp3 player remains.

halo112358

03-29-2008, 02:59 PM

True, but the comment still stand. He was able to fix problems and bring functionality far faster than Creative did.

I am not sure why anyone would defend Creative. Its not like this is anything new, they have pulled this :banana::banana::banana::banana: for DECADES!

There is nothing wrong with the hardware, its their :banana::banana::banana::banana:ty software.

I'm not defending them, they chose not to make fully functional drivers as business decision, not an engineering decision, they're a :banana::banana::banana::banana:ty company that doesn't take care of their customers after they have the money.

Having :banana::banana::banana::banana:ty drivers doesn't mean they aren't capable of making good ones, it means either they aren't capable or they don't want to spend the money to do it - I'm betting on option 2.

fart_plume

03-29-2008, 03:16 PM

i'm for creative trying to sue him, Why you say? Well because if they do he can counter sue that they intentionally giving sub-par drivers and quality of service their customers are paying for, and it could potentially turn in to a class action suit, giving all the customers who feel short changed a voice.

zanzabar

03-29-2008, 03:16 PM

Comsistently releasing crippled drivers & intentionally shortchanging customers to earn more sales is too easy it seems. Creative should be in court for crapping on its customers from a great height.

The long and the short of it is that they created themselves a monopoly & are now abusing it to the detriment of both the industry & most importantly, its customers.

As of 2 months ago I am Creative free. Not a single chip, speaker or mp3 player remains.

what kind of mp3 player do u have now, archos??

SKYMTL

03-29-2008, 03:17 PM

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/7049/creativexi2.jpg

'NUFF SAID.

Peakr

03-29-2008, 03:25 PM

What issues do you have?

You can go into almost any forum and find people complaining about some issue with creative drivers all the way back to there first sound cards. Their own forum is littered by people with grips. Seems like they only test out their drivers with a few sets of hardware and release them. Meanwhile if you own a different motherboard like say a DFI 965-S and are having crackling, hissing, and popping issues with certain games the bottom line is they just don't give a :banana::banana::banana::banana:. New drivers just came out last week and still the same problems persist. If a guy wants to unlock features for all of creatives sound cards do you think I care? They screwed me. Seems turn about is only fair play. More power to ya Daniel_K!

zanzabar

03-29-2008, 03:34 PM

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/7049/creativexi2.jpg

'NUFF SAID.

that follows their driver support, amazing

Peakr

03-29-2008, 03:34 PM

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/7049/creativexi2.jpg

'NUFF SAID.

Seems I read somewhere recently they're definitely close to bankruptcy.

SKYMTL

03-29-2008, 03:38 PM

Hence why they want to enforce their IP rights so much. They will need something to sell once the lenders come a-callin.

And yes, they just sold off their HQ building I believe.

mascaras

03-29-2008, 04:25 PM

daniel_k wrote:

Dale removed everything I posted, including the Audigy Support Pack, that does not enable any "new" feature, except those present in XP drivers. I think you went too far.
Now Audigy owners are left in the dark, no Equalizer, no CMSS, no DVD Audio, no Hardware MIDI, no Dolby/DTS decoding.

I checked with management, and it was decided we would bring back the Audigy Support Pack thread and allow you to continue in that endeavor. As long as no intellectual property of Creative is distributed, we will have no problem with it. I will get the thread reposted shortly.

Dale
Forum Moderator
Creative Labs

PeterJvM wrote:

Does this mean that if we want to make a donation to him for his efforts, read carefully, FOR HIS EFFORTS not for the drivers, that we can do this freely without getting him into trouble?

PeterJvM,

We are checking into that particular matter, and will get back to you guys on it probably Monday.

Dale
Forum Moderator
Creative Labs

.......
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SparkyJJO

03-29-2008, 04:33 PM

I got my vista x64 drivers from him for my Audigy 2 ZS since creative's drivers blow. Horrific crackling, popping, stuttering, and 4.1 wouldn't work. Installed his driver package... ahh nice and clear and 4.1 works again, just like in XP. Come on creative, your drivers worked fine in XP, why can't you figure out vista??

Making creative's drivers run on other hardware besides creative hardware is going too far though.

halo112358

03-29-2008, 04:40 PM

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/650/creativexi2tc8.jpg

'NUFF SAID.

Funny, that graph follows onboard sound chipset improvement pretty well...

As for creative: maybe if they supported their products then people would buy them instead of just using onboard sound. I spent an extra $100 to buy an auzentech card with a creative chip instead of buying a x-fi xtreme gamer just because creative are a bunch of dicks. Lean realtek drivers are a lot more useful to me than a whole crap-ton of creative bloatware just for 1-3 more fps while using EAX.

Zytek_Fan

03-29-2008, 04:43 PM

That graph follows onboard sound chipset improvement pretty well...

As for creative: maybe if they supported their products then people would buy them instead of just using onboard sound. I spent an extra $100 to buy an auzentech card with a creative chip instead of buying a x-fi xtreme gamer just because creative are a bunch of dicks. Lean realtek drivers are a lot more useful to me than a whole crap-ton of creative bloatware just for 1-3 more fps while using EAX.

Indeed.
If I get a gaming PC for my new computer, I'm going with Auzentech or Asus. :yepp:

Syn.

03-29-2008, 04:53 PM

Funny, that graph follows onboard sound chipset improvement pretty well...

As for creative: maybe if they supported their products then people would buy them instead of just using onboard sound. I spent an extra $100 to buy an auzentech card with a creative chip instead of buying a x-fi xtreme gamer just because creative are a bunch of dicks. Lean realtek drivers are a lot more useful to me than a whole crap-ton of creative bloatware just for 1-3 more fps while using EAX.

With Prelude all you get is higher quality hardware. The drivers them self still come from Creative.

day187

03-29-2008, 05:08 PM

Asus cant add EAX support for 2 reasons. A) The CMI8788 chip does not support EAX 4,5 B) Shouldnt Asus buy the rights for EAX from Creative in the first place ?

The Asus Xonar D2X as EAX support

- PCI EXPRESS interface
- VISTA Gaming with DirectSound & EAX support
- Hi-Fi class audio quality with SNR up to 118dB
- Dolby HomeTheater Technologies & DTS Connect
- Valuable Cakewalk and Ableton Live music production software bundled

And the drivers work very well in vista :D

Link (http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=25&l2=150&l3=0&l4=0&model=1989&modelmenu=1)

Syn.

03-29-2008, 05:11 PM

Asus cant add EAX support for 2 reasons. A) The CMI8788 chip does not support EAX 4,5 B) Shouldnt Asus buy the rights for EAX from Creative in the first place ?

All third party companies can support EAX 1 & 2 through OpenAL, however EAX HD is off limits.

If Creative keeps going down hill ASUS can buy the whole company not just its IP.

safan80

03-29-2008, 05:14 PM

have you seen how big the thread on creative's web site has gotten? very nice! my next sound card will be an asus one.

zanzabar

03-29-2008, 05:16 PM

i hope that asus or NV dosnt buy creative they just need to get an integrated sound chip and get some oem support like they once had with descreat cards

im hoping that via can get creatives ip, the make the best sound chips right now but they dont make cards so it would make for better allround products

Nelly

03-29-2008, 06:05 PM

I hope Creative go out of business I hate them now.

On March 5th, 1998[1], Creative Labs sued Aureal for patent infringement. Aureal countersued because they believed Creative was guilty of patent infringement. After numerous lawsuits Aureal won a favorable ruling in December 1999, which vindicated Aureal from these patent infringement claims, but the legal costs were too high and Aureal filed for bankruptcy. On September 21st, 2000, Creative acquired Aureal's assets from its bankruptcy trustee for US$ 32 million. The purchase included patents, trademarks, other property, as well as a release to Creative from any infringement by Creative of Aureal's intellectual property including A3D. The purchase effectively eliminated Creative's only competition in the gaming audio market. It also eliminated any requirements for Creative to pay past or future royalties as well as damages for products which incorporated Aureal's technology.

Source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aureal)

safan80

03-29-2008, 06:17 PM

What messed up is the first time I switched away from creative labs, I brought a hercules Game Theater Xp 7.1 and Then had to by an creative labs X-fi because hercules did not want to support any of the 64bit MS OSes. I checked out Asus' audio cards yesterday and they have 64bit xp/vista support.

http://www.asus.com.tw/products.aspx?l1=25

[XC] Lead Head

03-29-2008, 06:17 PM

i have an old Aureal Vortex down in the basement, basic card, but the sound quality was actually quite good for what it was.

Here is a a fun fact: Most on board sound chips, the chip it self is actually quite good, its usually the craptastic DACs and op-amps motherboard manufacturers use that make on board sound so bad.

Zytek_Fan

03-29-2008, 06:23 PM

Lead Head;2878937']i have an old Aureal Vortex down in the basement, basic card, but the sound quality was actually quite good for what it was.

Here is a a fun fact: Most on board sound chips, the chip it self is actually quite good, its usually the craptastic DACs and op-amps motherboard manufacturers use that make on board sound so bad.

That's exactly why the Asus Xonar works so good :)

Nelly

03-29-2008, 06:47 PM

The news is spreading fast on the net.

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/03/29/creative-driver-debacle

http://blog.wired.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/03/29/picture1.jpgCreative: Fixing Our Crippled Sound Card Drivers Is "Stealing our Goods"

Creative Labs, makers of sound cards that still don't work properly with Windows Vista, doesn't want fixed versions of its broken drivers on the net.

In a message to "Daniel_K," who repaired their broken software, Creative Labs' Phil O'Shaughnessy claims that by restoring functionality to Vista drivers that's offered in Windows XP versions, he is a thief:

"By enabling our technology and IP to run on sound cards for which it was not originally offered or intended, you are in effect, stealing our goods," writes O'Shaughnessy at Creative's forums.

Granted, Daniel_K is soliciting donations. Furthermore, the gear's EULA specifies, as is usual, that you can't tamper with its software. But why would a company set out to prevent people from helping one another fix problems in hardware it's already sold them?

The answer is the sad one you've probably learned to expect: O'Shaughnessy admits that Creative Labs intentionally crippled its Vista drivers as a business strategy:

"If we choose to develop and provide host-based processing features with certain sound cards and not others, that is a business decision that only we have the right to make."

Baffling, yes, but also its prerogative. You can easily find the fixed drivers.

Thread [Creative Forums via BBG. Fixed drivers via Gizmodo]

Source (http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/03/creative-fixing.html?cid=108729048#comment-108729048)

conzymaher

03-29-2008, 07:08 PM

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/5229/xfi2xa8.jpg

My effort :)

RPGWiZaRD

03-29-2008, 07:14 PM

LOL, priceless! :rofl:

That pic is actually pretty accurately describing Creative's scenario at the moment, a sinking POS! :p:

B.E.E.F.

03-29-2008, 07:32 PM

'NUFF SAID.

Dibbs! On the office chairs and coffee filters when they go out of business.

mascaras

03-29-2008, 07:49 PM

The news is spreading fast on the net.

thats was predictable

http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=1913839

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1032290128

http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/03/29/046201

http://forums.amd.com/game/messageview.cfm?catid=263&threadid=93737

http://www.moonbuggy.org/archive/2008/03/30/creative-labs-message-to-daniel_k/

http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/03/29/046201&from=rss

http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/29/creative-halts-unauthorized-distribution-of-homegrown-vista-driv/

http://www.driverheaven.net/audio-general-technical-discussion/156665-creative-goes-after-danielk-over-his-modded-drivers.html#post1135220

http://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=628428&st=0&p=589299807&#entry589299807

http://www.toc-gaming.co.uk/blog/PermaLink,guid,71b76cb2-79f8-4084-8090-66ac0056a0bd.aspx

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=2810860

and so on ......

regards

x keo21

03-29-2008, 08:03 PM

thats was predictable

http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=1913839

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1032290128

http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/03/29/046201

http://forums.amd.com/game/messageview.cfm?catid=263&threadid=93737

http://www.moonbuggy.org/archive/2008/03/30/creative-labs-message-to-daniel_k/

http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/03/29/046201&from=rss

http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/29/creative-halts-unauthorized-distribution-of-homegrown-vista-driv/

http://www.driverheaven.net/audio-general-technical-discussion/156665-creative-goes-after-danielk-over-his-modded-drivers.html#post1135220

http://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=628428&st=0&p=589299807&#entry589299807

http://www.toc-gaming.co.uk/blog/PermaLink,guid,71b76cb2-79f8-4084-8090-66ac0056a0bd.aspx

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=2810860

and so on ......

regards

dont forget

http://forums.overclockersclub.com/index.php?showtopic=79214
:)

64dragon

03-29-2008, 08:04 PM

thats pathetic, what a bunch of idiots

safan80

03-29-2008, 09:14 PM

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/5483/creativesz3.jpg

from user artfuldodga45 in the same creative thread Trashed.

here's another from artfuldodga45

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/6990/zenstonere6.jpg

B.E.E.F.

03-29-2008, 09:25 PM

Good. I bought the Creative Zen (one with screen). It felt like a toy, and the features advertised on the box were not included!

Piece of :banana::banana::banana::banana:! Returned it to the store.

I bought a Cowon iAudio D2 instead. Awesome player!

BTW. I am loving the :banana::banana::banana::banana:ing bananas instead of the standard censoring. :clap: :up:

Bo_Fox

03-29-2008, 09:51 PM

False, misleading title. Please change it! *grins*

Bo_Fox

03-29-2008, 09:54 PM

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/5483/creativesz3.jpg

from user artfuldodga45 in the same creative thread

here's another from artfuldodga45

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/6990/zenstonere6.jpg

That card in the garbage was still clean and untouched. It did not even touch the cigarette ash, as it is resting atop a CD-R container, upwards at an angle.

Come on, a geniuine picture! I always hated Creative Labs drivers/software, and have stuck to onboard audio ever since Nvidia's wonderful Soundstorm.

Zytek_Fan

03-29-2008, 10:29 PM

Oh man, Creative is definitely going to have hell to pay for this one :rofl:

flopper

03-30-2008, 02:39 AM

Obviously its wrong to ask for donation for a property yourself didnt develop.
Obviously its wrong to alter drivers that a company put out since no one knows if that will break your OS or card.

Obviously Creative cant support the hardware they produced.
Obviously again they have a really bad update for drivers and support to the hardware are slow and nonexistent.

If you put out hardware I expect as a coustomer to be provided with drivers regulary that makes the hardware run better and fix bugs continiously.

But the software are often neglected, DICE the swedish company relased BF2 which still have so many bugs and still sucks more than 2 years after release where the support have been left out.

I am sure there can be a long list of companies who obviously dont know what is important for people who buy the hardware or software they sell.

Some blame pirates, well if the software makers as Unreal would make games that actually did something fun for a change then i guess piracy wouldnt be an issue.
I read Tim Sweeneys comments and he still makes the same game 10 years later just with enhance visual qualites which are impressing for a minute, then its the same old fps shooter.
If its their flagship I guess they are sinking deeply with the creative thinking software companies use today.

I am simple, I buy something and expect things to work out of the box. I am updating drivers regulrary since I wont stand stuff that dont work.
I am also thinking about the people who dont update stuff often, who often run into BSOD and other inferior software for products they bought but never got a manual in how to update the software in a simple way.

Its a coustomer market not a sellers one.
AMD might finnaly got around to find that out.

DeathReborn

03-30-2008, 03:03 AM

what kind of mp3 player do u have now, archos??

Motorola RAZR2 V8.

JohnZS

03-30-2008, 05:27 AM

I've been trying to calm things down on that forum, it's been complete madness. Basically people are ignoring everything that has been said and are jumping to conclusions.

I agree that Creative were wrong publicly issuing a cease and desist to Daniel_K however, there was also other stuff said which NONE of the News sites have bothered to report.

For example, they are not having a go at Daniel_K for his tremendous Audigy Support Pack which enabled Audigy users to user their cards on Vista.

They are getting their knickers in a twist over his Dolby Digital Live unlocker for X-Fi, which basically hacked exclusive an Auzentech Prelude feature. Auzentech paid a lot of money for an exclusive licence with Dolby to have their cards support the encoder. Now thanks to Daniel_K's hack people who purchased bare basic X-Fi cards could also use this feature. No doubt contracts and money was exchanged between Auzentech and Creative to ensure it was a Prelude feature. So Daniel_K's drivers (being advertised on the Creative Forum), could get Creative into trouble if they allow the distribution of that driver to continue.

I must reiterate that the AUDIGY SUPPORT PACK is still allowed so people CAN use their Audigy cards on Vista.

John

STEvil

03-30-2008, 05:31 AM

Auzen should be mad then, not Creative.

Peakr

03-30-2008, 05:38 AM

They are getting their knickers in a twist over his Dolby Digital Live unlocker for X-Fi, which basically hacked exclusive an Auzentech Prelude feature.

Awesome! Where can I get this unlocker?

JohnZS

03-30-2008, 05:40 AM

Auzen should be mad then, not Creative.

They probably are and got onto Creative Labs.
By the way this is a good read on the story and I agree with Hilbert.
Guru3d report that door is slammed on Driver modder (http://www.guru3d.com/newsitem.php?id=6722)
John

BigKriss

03-30-2008, 08:09 AM

The title of this thread is totally misleading !!

NotFred

03-30-2008, 08:21 AM

Nobody sued anybody, title should be changed.

I really hate the hysteria this is causing. It says very clearly in the letter that they were perfectly ok with him adding vista support to cards.

keiths

03-30-2008, 08:23 AM

JohnZS

03-30-2008, 08:23 AM

The title of this thread is totally misleading !!

I agree :up:

Should read Creative get their panties in a twist over driver modder?

Not meaning to sound like I am taking sides, but did anyone remember when nVidia did the same to OMEGA for his drivers?

There was nowhere near as much web attention... I just think Creative are being picked on, as nVidia said exactly the same to OMEGA and UGO. They even theattened UGO with legal action because of their SLi Unified drivers (Drivers which allowed SLi on non-nForce chipsets).

John

lapdog

03-30-2008, 08:58 AM

Users have been unlocking video cards forever and I think it has proved good for video card sales. If Creative really does not want features enabled they need to physically disable them.

hollo

03-30-2008, 09:05 AM

89 pages http://forums.creative.com/creativelabs/board/message?board.id=soundblaster&thread.id=116332&view=by_date_ascending&page=89 :ROTF:

RaZz!

03-30-2008, 09:33 AM

89 pages http://forums.creative.com/creativelabs/board/message?board.id=soundblaster&thread.id=116332&view=by_date_ascending&page=89 :ROTF:

awesome!

i'm happy with my audigy2 (with winxp) for ages, but the vista support of all their products is the worst thing i've ever seen.

it's about time the customers realize how creative threats them.

creative has 2 options now: to actually READ what their customers have to say and drastically change their business, or ignore the customers and drive the last missing nail into their own coffin.

i found nemo

03-30-2008, 09:35 AM

i'm never buying creative again. if my onboard audio worked i'd destroy this sound card, wich does not work in x64 xp or server x64 2003.

edit -

here's all the drivers i tried to make it work in the x64 environment last year

http://img30.picoodle.com/img/img30/4/3/30/f_listm_e3928a9.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/3/30/f_listm_e3928a9.jpg&srv=img30)

Donnie27

03-30-2008, 10:50 AM

Creative is also pissed off at Asus now because Asus is adding EAX support :rofl:

No they're not. Asus will have to pay Creative use its tech=P I too wish they'd hire DK and all YouP_Pax folks as well.

Personally, I'd take an Audigy 2/ZS or 4 over the XPlosion any day:up: It's not in the same class as the X-Fi and dewd that wasn't upgrade, it was downgrade LOL!

Please also note, there are legal issues here. Vista was created to implement DRM via Protected Multimedia paths. Breaking it is like stealing Cable TV or using you neighbors wireless. MS, RIAA and everyone else can easily say since Creative allowed Daniel K to help folks they must be backing him. So MAYBE Creative has to at least appear to Give a D@mned!

Donnie27

03-30-2008, 10:57 AM

Donnie27

03-30-2008, 10:59 AM

Users have been unlocking video cards forever and I think it has proved good for video card sales. If Creative really does not want features enabled they need to physically disable them.

Got one for MS's HDCP?

JohnZS

03-30-2008, 11:57 AM

Everybody's favourite news site The Inquirer also has it's own take on Creative and their drivers.
Creative's Drivers Ate my Porn (http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/03/28/creative-drivers-ate-porn)
Hah nice to see the Inquirer is still true to form.
John

kryptobs2000

03-30-2008, 01:26 PM

I agree :up:

Should read Creative get their panties in a twist over driver modder?

Not meaning to sound like I am taking sides, but did anyone remember when nVidia did the same to OMEGA for his drivers?

There was nowhere near as much web attention... I just think Creative are being picked on, as nVidia said exactly the same to OMEGA and UGO. They even theattened UGO with legal action because of their SLi Unified drivers (Drivers which allowed SLi on non-nForce chipsets).

John

Can't defend them lately, but at least nvidia has actually made some good products over the years. Maybe people weren't bitter towards nvidia to begin with?

Peakr

03-30-2008, 03:19 PM

Daniel_K's Dolby Digital unlocker for X-FI. And Creative Alchemy for Audigy Cards 1.00.8 Universal.

Linky (http://fightingagainstsuppression.blogspot.com/)

STEvil

03-30-2008, 04:20 PM

124 pages now...

511 signatures on the online petition: http://www.petitiononline.com/crtvlabs/petition.html

It was 503 as I was signing it...

keiths

03-30-2008, 04:28 PM

You don't do a petition where a lawsuit is warranted. A petition is naive.

B.E.E.F.

03-30-2008, 04:42 PM

89 pages http://forums.creative.com/creativelabs/board/message?board.id=soundblaster&thread.id=116332&view=by_date_ascending&page=89 :ROTF:

There's some funny comments too.

PG 94:
HAHAHAHHA HOLY **bleep** CREATIVE

look what you just did.... 93 pages of HATE, absolute pure hate for your products. You just tied your own ropes baby. The only thing that is left is for you to kick the chair out from under yourselves (which may be easier than waiting for us to do it by never buying a single creative product ever again).

Donnie27

03-30-2008, 06:59 PM

Daniel_K's Dolby Digital unlocker for X-FI. And Creative Alchemy for Audigy Cards 1.00.8 Universal.

Linky (http://fightingagainstsuppression.blogspot.com/)

Got links to other places where I don't have to download $hit managers?

SoulsCollective

03-30-2008, 07:09 PM

Newegg has spoken (http://forums.creative.com/creativelabs/board/message?board.id=soundblaster&view=by_date_ascending&message.id=117948#M117948)?
To Whom it May Concern:

While it is not our place to condemn the decisions of Creative regarding this issue, our customers come first. That being said, it has come to our attention that many of our customers are not happy with the products Creative has released nor the support for those products. To wit, we have processed nearly 5,000 return orders within the past 48 hours. While it is not normally in our best interest to publically comment in a manufacturer's forum, the overwhelming concensus has left us little choice. As such, effective tommorow morning newegg.com will suspend sales of the sound cards in question, particularly those indicated as "Vista compatible", pending an investigation into the matter. Those of you whom recently ordered such a card will still recieve your product as indicated in any relevant conversations. While we regret this abrupt decision, it has been deemed neccessary to protect the interest of our consumers. We welcome contact from Creative as soon as is possible so that we may resolve this issue.

Thank you,

Newegg.com

GripS

03-30-2008, 07:15 PM

Newegg has spoken (http://forums.creative.com/creativelabs/board/message?board.id=soundblaster&view=by_date_ascending&message.id=117948#M117948)?

That....is.....awesome. Think Creative will listen now? :D

shiznit93

03-30-2008, 07:59 PM

Peakr

03-30-2008, 08:51 PM

Got links to other places where I don't down $hit managers?

Don't think you need the manager just put in the 3 digit code and click the download button.

Peakr

03-30-2008, 08:56 PM

I think this whole Daniel_K thing was the straw that broke the camel's back and unleashed the floodgate of hate for Creative. It's a bold move by newegg to boycott their products. Perhaps they will see the light and mend their ways. But judging by their history it seems unlikely.

keiths

03-30-2008, 09:03 PM

It's an unusual spectacle, but 5000 returns in 48 hours makes it a necessity to boycott their products. Returns cost Newegg money.

SparkyJJO

03-30-2008, 09:05 PM

some on the creative forum are saying the newegg post is probably fake... Don't know if it is or not, and it got hard to read later because the site wasn't loading properly (text would run off the center part behind the side borders).

safan80

03-30-2008, 09:26 PM

I think it could be fake because the three link on the bottom of their sig are wrong.

SoulsCollective

03-30-2008, 09:30 PM

I think it could be fake because the three link on the bottom of their sig are wrong.
The links are right, they're just somehow prefaced with this "wlmailhtml:{803ED5BC-E8D2-439A-BE8D-119C35FD9F19}mid://00000081/!x-usc:" crap. Now, I'm not a web genius so I have no idea what's going on there, but this is probably a function of the general messed-up nature of the Creative forums.

The fact that the e-mail address is webmaster@newegg.com and that the forums require you to activate with a link sent to your e-mail is pretty damn compelling.

shiznit93

03-30-2008, 10:23 PM

5000 returns for soundcards seems high to me?

Also, wouldnt newegg have other channels to speak with Creative through, instead of a post on a public forum?
that's exactly what I thought, so I checked the poster's profile and the registered email address is webmaster@newegg.com. Is it possible someone not officially posting for Newegg is using that address?

Zytek_Fan

03-30-2008, 10:36 PM

5000 returns for soundcards seems high to me?

Also, wouldnt newegg have other channels to speak with Creative through, instead of a post on a public forum?

They're speaking to their customers though to let them know what they're doing.

I applaud newegg if it's true :clap:

DeathReborn

03-31-2008, 02:58 AM

Got links to other places where I don't down $hit managers?

http://tinyurl.com/35qda6

Just look at the comments...

naokaji

03-31-2008, 04:10 AM

Newegg has spoken (http://forums.creative.com/creativelabs/board/message?board.id=soundblaster&view=by_date_ascending&message.id=117948#M117948)?

5k returns of creative soundcards in 48 hours, ouch thats going to hurt.

I can fully understand the egg's decision to not sell anymore of those cards and I hope more people will return their creative cards due to that.
I should have done the same back then, but I trashed mine.

Should we start taking bets on how long until creative goes the way of the dodo? personally I don't know anyone who would miss them.

Cybercat

03-31-2008, 04:19 AM

Holy **** @ NewEgg!

I already knew they were the best hardware purchasing site on the net, but I just fell in love with them over again!

Syn.

03-31-2008, 05:15 AM

Good idea but not true. Try ordering Sound Blaster cards of Newegg and you will know what i mean.

Donnie27

03-31-2008, 06:17 AM

http://tinyurl.com/35qda6

Just look at the comments...

I may have missed it but I'm not a Torrent user but I'll try when I get home, thanks!

RaZz!

03-31-2008, 07:13 AM

The registered email of the newegg poster is webmaster@newegg.com and that forum requires email confirmation and activation so I'm thinking it's legit, unless someone else has access to webmaster@newegg.com

i don't know about the creative forums but commonly a user can change his email address. so maybe the person regged with another emailaddress, clicked the activation link and then changed his email-address in his profile.

lapdog

03-31-2008, 07:16 AM

Got one for MS's HDCP?

AnyDVD HD

Donnie27

03-31-2008, 07:32 AM

The registered email of the newegg poster is webmaster@newegg.com and that forum requires email confirmation and activation so I'm thinking it's legit, unless someone else has access to webmaster@newegg.com.

I'm content my x-fi (which i got used for $40) now that I replaced the crappy stock opamps, but Creative's had it coming ever since they maliciously sued Aureal out of business and bought the Ip for dirt cheap after Aureal was forced to file for bankruptcy due to litigation costs (even though it won the lawsuit). I still have my Diamond MX300 somewhere, and A3D 2.0 pwned anything EAX. They also killed Soundstorm (I miss my Nforce 2), the best on-board sound ever made, with hardware acceleration and real-time DD Live encoding, with a malicious lawsuit against Senasura (Soundstorm was based on licensed Senasura tech), forcing the company to shut down due to litigation costs and sell their IP to Creative. Nvidia was forced to abandon Soundstorm development.

Now we find out they intentionally cripple their Audigy series Vista drivers to disable key features which work just fine in XP and are listed all over the shiny box and their website, in an effort to force obsolescence and make their loyal customers buy X-FIs, all while telling people that the features don't work due to incompatibility issues with Vista. That my friends, is called fraud. If Creative manages to survive this mess, you can bet there will be a class-action lawsuit coming.

Good riddance and :banana::banana::banana::banana: you Creative.

It is amazing how mis-information can cloud folks' judgment. A3D wasn't sued out of Business, they just like 3dfx took the money and ran. I was an Aureal Fan and was disappointed after cheering them on. They jumped at the offer Creative made them when they bought them out, Frakkin sellouts:mad:

The second one, you're wayyyyy off on as well. Creative didn't kill SoundStorm, from what I understood nVidia did that themselves. In FACT Creative and nVidia are two of the main Partners and Forces behind OpenAL.

Then some of Creative's problem is all of the DRM Vista brings to the table. For Protected Multimedia Path to work, everything had to be moved from Hardware Mode, to User Mode.

Donnie27

03-31-2008, 07:58 AM

5000 returns for soundcards seems high to me?

Also, wouldnt newegg have other channels to speak with Creative through, instead of a post on a public forum?

Question, have 5000 customers purchased the Card with-in the return period? Something seems fishy here. Their return period is only 30 days. Or do they mean over a certain time period?

shiznit93

03-31-2008, 11:30 AM

phelan1777

03-31-2008, 11:38 AM

I signed.

We endorse the Creative Labs Driver Quality Petition to Creative Labs.

Read the Creative Labs Driver Quality Petition

Name Comments
1943. Donald my signature here is comment enough.

1943 Signatures Total

View Current Signatures

Donnie27

03-31-2008, 11:50 AM

It turns out the Newegg thing was probably fake, Audigy cards are still on sale on their site.

Donnie, my judgment is just fine. I remember those days very well, Creative destroyed Aureal with lawsuits and shady business practices (bullying devs to use only eax and such) so chill out. Soundstorm and Nvidia's Xbox sound hardware were based on Sensaura tech, which Nvidia couldn't use after Creative bought the company, the fact that they are partners on something else is irrelevant.

Did you think I was trying to jump you? No, you chillout! Aureal won the court case after filing Chapter 11. They did prove Creative was in the wrong. They settled out of Court for 28 Million and Creative stock. So, yes, until the stock decline, Aureal was still making money from Creative's stock. That's not how Donnie27 feels, but the facts.

Creative Buys Aureal Assets
by Maarten Goldstein Sep 22, 2000 6:25am CST tags: Creative
Yup, it's happened. After a lot of speculation, Aureal announced that Creative will be buying the company's assets for $28 million in cash and additional Creative stock as well. The sale will also settle the lawsuit between the two companies. Aureal filed for chapter 11 around March of this year. Guillemot was also in running of purchasing the Aureal assets.

nVidia tried to use OpenAL before they'd partnered with Creative:) id pulled the same stunt, twice LOL! NOTHING is stopping nVidia from doing another Soundstorm=P

Donnie27

03-31-2008, 12:11 PM

You don't do a petition where a lawsuit is warranted. A petition is naive.

Not always. I quickly signed the petition for Creative lying about 24bit.

NH|Delph1

03-31-2008, 12:51 PM

Is there an online petition against online petitions I can sign?

//Andreas

shiznit93

03-31-2008, 12:56 PM

Donnie27

03-31-2008, 02:25 PM

The only goal of Creative's suit agains Aureal was to bankrupt the company with high litigation costs. Yes Aureal won the suit but they spent so much money on lawyers and didn't have enough coming in, so investors pulled the plug. If Creative hadn't maliciously sued things might be different.

Cool, I wasn't trying to be a jerk or anything:) Prior to filing Chapter 11 Aureal was loosing about 5 million a Quarter without counting Legal fees.

http://gamedevelopment.com/newswire/news/index20000327.htm
Near the bottom of the page:

Aureal Turmoil
Poor fourth quarter financials are only the beginning for Aureal, as the company now faces the mass resignation of all executive officers and senior staff members. Aureal's fourth quarter operations generated a net loss of $9.5 million, a large increase from last year's fourth quarter loss of $3.5. Loss for the year as whole reached $26.9 million, compared to losses of $18.5 million in 1998. Aureal attributes some of this to $6.4 million in legal fees related to it patent suit with Creative Labs. Resignations followed the financials by a day, with President and CEO, Kip Kokinakis, Chief Technical Officer Scott Foster, Chief Financial Officer David Domeier, Chief Operating Officer and General Counsel Brendan O'Flaherty, and the senior staff of Aureal announcing their departure. The Aureal Board of Director has announced that it is considering all options, including new management, a sale of assets, or the cessation of operations.

Back on Topic. I can't believe users of the DRM ladened Vista are complaining about Blocked features!

It is impossible for Creative or any company to condone features they have agreed to block, unlocked.

There are such things as Regulations and Laws. What if Creative Labs said. "Nice work Daniel K! We couldn't legally circumvent Protected Audio Path. We didn't want pay the Extra costs of DDL and DTS to keep costs down. Now we can sell for the same price, you can add the feature and this will equal more sales to at least the Enthusiast market." The whole DRM World would be on their @$$es in a Nano second. Conversely In or No Action taken is seen as approval.

Even if Creative Labs LIKED what Daniel K did, they COULDN'T appear to approve it. Come on folks, surely you guys understand Laws better than that, right?

i found nemo

03-31-2008, 02:33 PM

hmm, you have a point ....

shiznit93

03-31-2008, 02:49 PM

LoneWolf

03-31-2008, 03:10 PM

Based on what I've read from Ars Technica's (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080331-creative-irate-after-modder-spruces-up-vista-x-fi-drivers.html) blurb on this, if this situation doesn't change, I'll never buy a Creative card again.

So far, I've owned the following:

SoundBlaster 1.5 (back in 1992)
SoundBlaster Pro
SoundBlaster 16
SoundBlaster AWE32
SoundBlaster Live!
SoundBlaster Audigy
SoundBlaster Audigy2
SoundBlaster Audigy 2ZS
SoundBlaster X-Fi XtremeGamer

This isn't counting the cards people bought due to my recommendations.

I've not always been happy with some of Creative's decisions, and they've made some dumb marketing moves and stretched their advertising farther than it ought to have gone. Still, I felt they made decent cards, and EAX was important to me among other things. At this point, though, they've got the gun pointed straight at their feet, and the safety is off.

I don't believe this is about protecting intellectual property --fact is, driver-hacking would sell more of their cards, not less in this case, due to the additional features, and Creative wouldn't even have to provide support for them, and could disclaim responsibility. I think it's more about exerting control. And what with EAX no longer being in an option in Vista, and Vista breaking making many features of the X-Fi (assuming it isn't just an excuse on Creative's part), Creative isn't in a good financial position to use the heavy hand. Their profits are down, and a move like this is going to do them more harm than good.

safan80

03-31-2008, 06:46 PM

here's a stock price update

Nelly

04-01-2008, 04:58 AM

Donnie27

04-01-2008, 07:35 AM

I wasn't offended or anything, no worries man. I don't mind being corrected on things, especially if I don't take the time to properly research something.

So Aureal's losses amounted to more than legal fees, how much of that was because of Creative pressuring developers to go with EAX only?

Back on the Daniel_K topic, there seems to be a lot of confusion. Yes what he did was not entirely legal, and I have never said that Creative doesn't have the right to stop him, especially after he made DD Live work on X-FI w/o a license.

But his work has also exposed Creative's illegal fraud of loyal customers, who bought "Vista Ready" Audigy cards, only to find out the driver was intentionally blocking key features, and Creative was telling these people "those features don't work in Vista, nothing we can do, buy X-FI". This is the problem.

No Problem Bro! I'd much rather talk than yell or try to belittle anyone. Sure Creative didn't help Aureal any and I hoped Aureal would survive. I was wrong the other day about Intel IGP in all of their Chipsets and thanked the guy for the correction.

I agree Creative made some claims they couldn't back, but name me a clean company who hasn't? If I purchased computer parts based on how honest any company is, I'd not have a computer=P

I'd bet they thought they'd have all of their issues worked out quickly. I missed that about the Audigy Cards. Creative even admitted they're appreciative of Daniel K's assisting its customers, work in fixing the Drivers and etc... They are the ones who should have sent him a check for that. But clearly that is NOT what the dispute is about unless I totally missed it.

My point is there should be a petition to "Pay Daniel K for helping Creative Customers" then they could call it a goodwill gesture, Donation or whatever else. It seems that would be more productive. I signed the petition on the 24bit lie that was truly fraud, I'm just not so sure about the current stuff since I don't have Vista installed. I have very little experience with it. EVERYTHING worked as advertised in XP.

Last but not least, Vista is the main vehicle for DRM. To be certified, all hardware makers have to comply and work with that DRM. OEM's still buy the majority of products sold and many will NOT use uncertified products=P
Do you think it would be cool if a 3rd party reintroduced an HAL to Vista? How about totally crippling HDCP so an HD signal can be sent to any target device? Sorry for length of the post!

Donnie27

04-01-2008, 07:43 AM

What alternatives have we got for gaming?

Asus Xonar D2X 7.1 PCI-Express Sound Card, I've read this can use Eax 3, 4, 5 via emulation.

Anyone got any other gaming reccomendations, I dont want to buy the Auzentech Prelude as thats still using X-Fi chipset - I refuse to put anymore money in Creatives pockets.

Asus said it would have support via software in a later Emu software pack or something. It doesn't have support right now. All indications are that it is a great sounding card. I'd love to have one for my HTPC I'm 4/5 finished with. But Sorry, I'm sticking with my Prelude and Platinum Pro For gaming, I'm not having problems with either card.

Donnie27

04-01-2008, 07:44 AM

hmm, you have a point ....

Thanks!:D

JohnZS

04-01-2008, 02:58 PM

An official statement has now been made by Creative, which backs up excatly what I said earlier in this thread (and on their forum), that the whole "thing" was caused by Daniel_K's Dolby Digital Live "hack" which belongs to Azuerntech (or however you spell them).

Here is a quote

We have read the strong feedback about Creative's forum post regarding driver development by Daniel_k and other outside parties. Creative's message posted on our behalf by our Company spokesperson tried to address our concern about the improper distribution of certain software which is the property of other companies. However, we did not make it as clear as we would have liked that we do support driver development by independent third parties. The huge task of developing driver updates to accommodate the many changes in the Vista operating system and the extensive testing required, including the lengthy Vista certification requirements for audio, makes it very difficult for Creative to develop updates for all past products. Outside developers have been very helpful to Creative and our customers by developing updates for many of our Sound Blaster products, and we do support and appreciate these efforts. This however does not extend to the unauthorized distribution of other companies' property. We hope to work out a mutually agreeable method for working with Daniel_k in supporting his efforts in driver development. Going forward, we are committed to doing a better job of working more closely with third parties to support their development for our products and our customers.

Dale-CL issues statement (http://forums.creative.com/creativelabs/board/message?board.id=soundblaster&thread.id=120975)

John

RPGWiZaRD

04-01-2008, 03:31 PM

Ahh so that explains it, ok I was a bit confused.

Syn.

04-01-2008, 03:46 PM

Nelly

04-01-2008, 04:51 PM

I have been buying Creative Soundcards for around 10 years, if you cannot support your current soundcards for support with operating systems but one person can modify your drivers so their are no problems in Vista, I suggest that you recruit new software engineers capable of doing so because obviously the ones you have do not deserve to gave a job or maybe they are intentionally told not to make them fully compatable, either way you have brought down your own downfall.

Having read the Microsoft pages which show certified drivers in XP & Vista for a X-FI II, it just goes to show that Creative's only concern is giving campatability to future products & not what people use at present.

I for one will NOT be buying anymore products from Creative - EAX or no EAX I have past caring to be honest, I hope you go bankrupt / insolvent - would be better if your technology as well as that you have scavenged from putting other companys out of business be developed by other companys willing to give full support for soundcards.

Well looks like Creative not bothered with X-FI or prior models anymore because they are going to Release a SB X-Fi 2.

http://winqual.microsoft.com/HCL/ProductDetails.aspx?m=v&g=d&cid=110&sv=&f=&pn=SB%20X-Fi%202&oid=24

http://winqual.microsoft.com/HCL/ProductDetails.aspx?m=v&g=d&cid=110&sv=&f=&pn=SB%20X-Fi%20Surround%205.1&oid=24

As taken from a post in the Creative forums it looks like they will be Windows XP & Vista certified.

I for one will NOT be buying an X-FI 2, I suggest that everyone else does not as well, the silly thing is if they had given support for current soundcards I would of been interested in X-FI 2.

Donnie27

04-01-2008, 08:52 PM

So why the hell didnt they just talk with Daniel on a personal level and let him know the issue, then solve that issue.

What did they do? Over reacted and shot themselves in the foot. Looks as though they are back-pedaling and trying to recover. Not that it will do much good now, too much bad PR.

QFT!

For their own drivers and apps, offering incentives wouldn't hurt either, look at all of the support savings(money)?

Donnie27

04-01-2008, 09:00 PM

zanzabar

04-01-2008, 09:01 PM

What alternatives have we got for gaming?

Asus Xonar D2X 7.1 PCI-Express Sound Card, I've read this can use Eax 3, 4, 5 via emulation.

Anyone got any other gaming reccomendations, I dont want to buy the Auzentech Prelude as thats still using X-Fi chipset - I refuse to put anymore money in Creatives pockets.

u can get an maudio revolution 5.1 or 7.1 with the via envy chipset, u dont need eax, open al is becoming prevalent and asio with open al is better than eax even with my sba2plat pro its better than eax especially with vista its better than xp with the custom dk drivers

Syn.

04-02-2008, 02:15 AM

What alternatives have we got for gaming?

Asus Xonar D2X 7.1 PCI-Express Sound Card, I've read this can use Eax 3, 4, 5 via emulation.

Anyone got any other gaming reccomendations, I dont want to buy the Auzentech Prelude as thats still using X-Fi chipset - I refuse to put anymore money in Creatives pockets.

I am getting D2X as its PCIe card and it seems to have good driver support. ASUS has managed to create ALchamey of their own that seems to work much better as it isnt game specific. The only down side of D2X is that it does only support EAX1&2 due to EAX3/4/5 being Creative cards only.

shiznit93

04-02-2008, 02:25 AM

zanzabar

04-02-2008, 02:41 AM

Syn, might wanna take a look at the Zonar DX $90 card, it seems to be on par with the D2X except the fancy shield.

tehy dont look the same
http://usa.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=25

but they may have the same spu, IMO ur better of with the via envy chipset i havnt gamed on one but they sound great and their virtual surround is better than creatives for dvds, and via updates drivers regularly (ive used both consumer grade m-audio)

Syn.

04-02-2008, 04:31 AM

And according to the Asus forum their DS3D wrapper doesnt work right in the Source engine yet, so I'm forced to wait. I'm not the biggest Creative fan, but Alchemy and CMSS work really well for me. Now if only I can get Daniel_K's modded driver running for DD Live...

Syn, might wanna take a look at the Zonar DX $90 card, it seems to be on par with the D2X except the fancy shield.

I cant get Source based games to use higher then 2.1 setting with my AC1, its due to Vista and Valve not really being that good with sound technology. At least ASUS is trying to create their own way to make everything work.

DX is the budget card so everything about it is cut down. I already spent around £150 on my last two sound cards (X-Fi Fatality/Razer AC1) i dont really mind doing it again.

Now i just found something interesting. It seems like that Xonar cards do support up to EAX5 but as its through the DS3D GX2.0 it is missing the EAX AdvancedHD option. But seriously thats nothing due to such low use of that tech.

http://usa.asus.com/999/images/products/2015/directsound3d.jpg

Source: ASUS (http://usa.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=25&l2=150&l3=0&l4=0&model=2015&modelmenu=1)

Donnie27

04-02-2008, 07:24 AM

I cant get Source based games to use higher then 2.1 setting with my AC1, its due to Vista and Valve not really being that good with sound technology. At least ASUS is trying to create their own way to make everything work.

DX is the budget card so everything about it is cut down. I already spent around £150 on my last two sound cards (X-Fi Fatality/Razer AC1) i dont really mind doing it again.

Now i just found something interesting. It seems like that Xonar cards do support up to EAX5 but as its through the DS3D GX2.0 it is missing the EAX AdvancedHD option. But seriously thats nothing due to such low use of that tech.

http://usa.asus.com/999/images/products/2015/directsound3d.jpg

Source: ASUS (http://usa.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=25&l2=150&l3=0&l4=0&model=2015&modelmenu=1)

The GX-2.0 software will have to be license by Creative. There is a question about just how much EAX 5.0 can be done this way but they can't do any of it without Creative's approval=P I'm hoping they can pull it off because more than just picking Creative for Games is a VERY GOOD THING:up:

I also read that Xonar DX2 has better hardware than both the old D2 and the new PCI-E cards. Yet, at 116db puts in at least the Creative X-Fi Elite Pro class. Finally something for those unused PCI-E slots:up: The price point is also a move in the right direction. Oh, this is the leading card for my HTPC I'm building. I don't care about its game performance.

NH|Delph1

04-02-2008, 11:27 AM

Newegg has spoken (http://forums.creative.com/creativelabs/board/message?board.id=soundblaster&view=by_date_ascending&message.id=117948#M117948)?

Fake.

In the whole driver modder debacle, posts made by someone who claimed to be from Newegg, said that Newegg had received return orders for as many as 5000 cards. The poster used an e-mail address which looked authentic and put a lot of work into making it look real, but it is not. It's nothing but pure slander. Newegg has not cut Creative from its partner list, it has not made any comment on the quality of Creative products, nor will it. After talking to Newegg, we got an official response;

"It has come to our attention that a recent post on the site claimed Newegg had severed its relationship with Creative. This is a false statement and was not issued by an entity authorized to speak on behalf of newegg.com. Newegg does not and will not comment on product quality or provide product reviews. For this we count on you, our customers, and our online forums like EggXpert."

While we do agree that Creative executed this very poorly, someone is putting a lot of effort into making it a lot worse. Newegg is still working with Creative and have no plans on cutting ties.

http://www.nordichardware.com/news,7594.html

//Andreas

Nelly

04-02-2008, 12:00 PM

Daniel_K, the Creative Labs fan who fixed the company's broken Vista sound card drivers only to be threatened by the corporate brass, just e-mailed with his side of the story.

"My name is Daniel Kawakami and I'm Brazilian," he writes. "I'm NOT a cracker, a hacker, just an enthusiast modder with basic assembly knowledge and very persistent."

Kawakami's expertise allowed him to enable advanced features in sound cards that Creative advertised as Vista-compatible, but which did not perform as well under that operating system as they do under Windows XP. After tolerating the distribution of his unofficial drivers for a time, Creative's vice president of corporate communications, Phil O'Shaughnessy, ultimately asked him to stop, and accused him of "stealing their goods." O'Shaughnessy also wrote that whether or not it cripples its Vista drivers is a "business decision that only we have the right to make."

The rest of Kawakami's e-mail follows, verbatim, after the jump.ALchemy

It all started when Creative released the first beta of ALchemy for X-Fi cards, saying it used X-Fi's advanced capabilities (EAX5).

After some investigation, I've found an EAX5.0 check and patched it... and it worked!

Sometime later, they released the final version of ALchemy X-Fi and the paid version of ALchemy Audigy.

I was realy mad at them, they didn't release a new Audigy driver and were charging Audigy owners for a software that runs on top of bugged drivers? What is the point of that?

Then I modified the X-Fi "free" version of ALchemy, not the paid version.

I did the same with the later versions, but when they released the 1.00.11, I couldn't patch it anymore.

So I bought it, just for the sake of it.

Well, I did manage to patch the latest version of ALchemy X-Fi to run on any card, without even removing Safecast, but I'm done with that.

The Audigy drivers

They took several days, countless Vista reinstalls.

Creative purposedly modified the Audigy drivers to disable some features when Vista is detected and also purposedly introduced some bugs to prevent some XP utilities from running.

I did a complete analysis of the driver to determine where all the checks and bugs were introduced and started modding.
Features that I've successfully enabled:

- Dolby/DTS decoding (originally discovered by another Creative forum member, but I've explained how to use it)
- CMSS, CMSS2 and Stereo Surround (originally only "CMSS" was available, this setting also affects ALchemy/OpenAL, so it is really useful)
- Advanced EQ and Special FX presets
- DVD Audio
- Hardware MIDI synthetizer (I wrote a small utility that automatically detects and changes the default Vista MIDI Synth during driver install or can change it later using its GUI. Some media players lets you choose the MIDI synthesizer)
- Equalizer (with preset saving, very hard to accomplish, had to deal with bugs in Creative software and use my creativity to find a workaround).
- WaveRT (a Microsoft replacement for ASIO, however I don't know if it really works or not)

The Live!/Live! 5.1 drivers

Creative have always released UDA (Unified Driver Architeture) drivers.

They purposedly ruined the Live! support in Vista: 2.1 speakers setting resulted in distorted sound.

After some investigation, I discovered the culprit module and replaced it with one from the last XP version and the problem was fixed.

In the later releases, Bass Management, Equalizer and EAX effects using software processing and Hardware MIDI support were added.

There was also an ALchemy for Live! cards.

The X-Fi drivers

I've added the following improvements: Hardware MIDI and WaveRT.

I didn't have a X-Fi to test, so modding was then limited to these features.

The Audigy LS/SE/Value/Live! 24-bit drivers

Officially, they lack Bass Management, Equalizer and EAx effects, once available in XP drivers.

I've found that the Audio Center utility (originally from the Vista Audigy Advanced MB drivers) worked just fine with these cards, so I made it available.

Also fixed an annoying bug present in the official drivers that cause the speaker type changing to Full Range speakers on reboot (disabling Bass Management).

The X-Fi Xtreme Audio drivers
Have the same speaker type bug. I fixed it.

Gameport support pack for Vista
Allows a limited number of gameport controllers to work on the x86 version of Windows Vista.

What Creative didn't like

I've learned how Creative enables or disables a feature for a specific model.

Alchemy:
My last ALchemy release (1.00.08) was complately unlocked and could be used with any sound device from any vendor.

Audigy cards:
Successfully enabled the software-based X-Fi Crystalizer for use with Audigy cards.

X-Fi:
Got Dolby Digital Live enabled on any X-Fi card. To clarify, I still didn't manage to enable DDL on Audigy cards.
A friend of mine bought a X-Fi, so I could test it, it really works.
The only current X-Fi based card that supports DDL is the Auzentech Prelude.

The P17 to Xtreme Audio mod
P17 is the codiname for a simple PCI audio controller that powers the Audigy LS/SE/Value, Live! 24-bit and X-Fi Xtreme Audio host-based soundcards.

Completely modded the P17 drivers to transform any Audigy LS/SE/Value and Live! 24-bit into a X-Fi Xtreme Audio (enabling Crystalizer).

Modding is OK

I don't think there was something wrong with mods themselves.

Modding is a common practice among enthusiasts and I don't recall some company threatning a modder, unless you allow an exclusive feature to be used with competitor products (ie: SLI on non-NVIDIA chipsers or ALchemy on competitor products, as I've said before).

Remember the Promise Ultra to Fasttrak mod? It was even published on a well known review site.
There was also the GeForce to Quadro mod, the NVIDIA nForce 4 to SLI mod, also published on review sites.

What I did wrong

I've asked for donations.

Do I really need the money? No, thank God I don't.

I thought it would be ok to ask for donations so I could buy new hardware to support.

I did buy some hardware: an used Live! 5.1 for ~$15 and a new Audigy SE for $60.

Computer hardware is really expensive here in Brazil.

An X-Fi Xtreme Gamer costs about $240 here, with taxes and shipping, The same card can be bought for ~$80 in the US.

I just can't spend my money buying new hardware that I won't even use.

Even the features I've enabled, I don't use.

Later I tried to encourage donations to release the DDL feature for X-Fi and Crystalizer for Audigy.

I said something like "the more people donate, the faster I'll release".

This was even worse, but I was so eager to modding that I didn't think straight. I was hoping to get a X-Fi asap.

While I did ask for donations, once released, the downloads would be public.

I do recognize that I deserve some criticism for that.

To date, I've got $146, with amounts ranging from $1 to $50 (this value is still uncleared).

Reversing ALchemy was also wrong, I know. But I reiterate, what is the point of improving ALchemy and changing for it, when it requires an improved driver? It was my protest against Creative.

What Creative did wrong

- They publicly threatened me, just to show their arrogance.
If they had contacted me by e-mail or private message I would do the same thing (remove everything) and no one would know about their insatisfaction.

- Removed everything I posted in the forums, even if unrelated to the "forbidden" stuff.
If they can't provide better drivers, let people make their own choice.

- They did not recognize my hard work.
I've been supporting about every Creative PCI soundcard, would even support USB devices if I had one of them.

To date, the Audigy Vista Support Pack was downloaded about 20,000 times.

The current situation

DDL encoder and Crystalizer were not publicly released.

I've deleted the P17 to Xtreme Audio mod and ALchemy from FileFront (where I store the files).

I've been told they will allow me to continue with my mods, except the "forbidden" ones.
I'm also allowed to receive donations.

Download of my mods
http://hosted.filefront.com/braziliantech/

Source (http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/04/daniel_k-who-fi.html)

Donnie27

04-02-2008, 01:24 PM

Fake.

http://www.nordichardware.com/news,7594.html

//Andreas

How deep is the Creative Labs Hate, let me not count the ways, it would take too long:up:

The current situation

DDL encoder and Crystalizer were not publicly released.

I've deleted the P17 to Xtreme Audio mod and ALchemy from FileFront (where I store the files).

I've been told they will allow me to continue with my mods, except the "forbidden" ones.
I'm also allowed to receive donations.

Download of my mods
http://hosted.filefront.com/braziliantech/

Just like the cheap @$$es, here's what stuck out to me.

While I did ask for donations, once released, the downloads would be public.

I do recognize that I deserve some criticism for that.

To date, I've got $146, with amounts ranging from $1 to $50 (this value is still uncleared).

To date, the Audigy Vista Support Pack was downloaded about 20,000 times.

I've not downloaded any of this but damned if those most folks are cheap @$$es:rolleyes: I only blame Creative for not contacting DK in private and NOT donating to him themselves, yes they're a bunch of Cheap bast@rd$ as well:down: So if there are 20K Audigy downloads, I'm sure there are at least 25 to 30K X-Fi downloads. Any of these folks swearing to like DK are FOS! Except the folks who donated the $146!:rolleyes:

NH|Delph1

04-02-2008, 01:47 PM

How deep is the Creative Labs Hate, let me not count the ways, it would take too long:up:

Probably, which makes these fake Newegg posts just plain unnecessary.

Creative's own actions is enough to make them look bad, but when people do these kind of things, it has more of a counter-effect.

//Andreas

Donnie27

04-02-2008, 03:02 PM

Probably, which makes these fake Newegg posts just plain unnecessary.

Creative's own actions is enough to make them look bad, but when people do these kind of things, it has more of a counter-effect.

//Andreas

QFT! As a Goodwill gesture, Creative should offer him something.

I'd love to see a Hardware site test out these unlocked features. I've seen unlocks that appear to work, but either partially worked or didn't at all. Example. Can you really make a 32 hardware Voice card magically increase to 128?

Nano2k

04-02-2008, 03:23 PM

QFT! As a Goodwill gesture, Creative should offer him something.

I'd love to see a Hardware site test out these unlocked features. I've seen unlocks that appear to work, but either partially worked or didn't at all. Example. Can you really make a 32 hardware Voice card magically increase to 128?

I think the deal is that creative cards are like X86 processors they all interpret software the same way (basically...). So even if the silicon evolves, pretty much any of them can run any functiion.
The hacked drivers were there before Daniel K and they enabled Audigy functions on SB Live cards etc. He's been good at making Creative cards work properly and at 100% in Vista.

I'm 100% convinced that what he says is true, it's been known for a long time that Creative purposely locked certain functions from certain cards through the drivers so that customers would buy more expensive ones...

i found nemo

04-02-2008, 05:35 PM

so my driver is p17 .... so i could have had x-fi sound quality? ..... shyit.

Donnie27

04-02-2008, 07:06 PM

I think the deal is that creative cards are like X86 processors they all interpret software the same way (basically...). So even if the silicon evolves, pretty much any of them can run any functiion.
The hacked drivers were there before Daniel K and they enabled Audigy functions on SB Live cards etc. He's been good at making Creative cards work properly and at 100% in Vista.

I'm 100% convinced that what he says is true, it's been known for a long time that Creative purposely locked certain functions from certain cards through the drivers so that customers would buy more expensive ones...

Installed WinXP on a Pentium 100MHz and 32MB of RAM. Would you say that really running XP? Hint, it took about 52 mins to install.

Those old cards had to do Software SRC. That's why folks did crazy crap like kill most of their features with Craptacular KXDrivers:rolleyes: I do get it even if we think Creative is lying and the X-fi has only a 1GHz Processor's processing power, (they say processes like a 3+GHz) I have doubts. I could be wrong. Hell, I'd rather be wrong. I don't see Audigy pulling off the same feats. If Creative did, I'm on that Petition just like I was on the 24bit lie Petition. I still have an Audigy 2 ZS, I refuse to use Vista though.

I have ZERO doubt DDL from my Auzentech X-Fi 7.1 will work my Creative X-Fi, hell, other AC3 hacks have been out there forever. I still ask, how does the weak SBLive (32 voice), the Audigy (64 voice) pull off EAX 5.0, I mean 128 voice, Game Voice and all. Unless they're using the C-MEDIA Software 128 voice hack? Then I'd like to see CPU usage if that's the case.

I'd love to see Tech-Report, FUGGER, MaximumPC, Anand, Kyle, Tom's, PC Perspective and etc.. do just a 5 page review to confirm some guy playing an EAX 5 game and getting full EAX 5.0 effects with an Audigy 2.

The legit argument has more to do with Audigy not having its stated features under Vista. I didn't know, they didn't have Time Scaling (something I use a lot to mix music), Karaoke (I don't use) and etc.... But here again, Vista's protected Path crap sucks as well. I wonder how much of this was done to satisfy Microsoft and how was purposely broken to get folks to upgrade.:rolleyes: