NoL's Benching Cascade, Project Boa

[n00b 0f l337]

Having some new inventory to work with, that being too much, and basically wanting to get back into benching I've decided to build myself a new cascade.
I decided on two Hitachi 11.5k Btu rotaries, a rather large condenser I've had sitting, four 180cfm 120mm 110vac fans, a Temprite 900 (oh yes), a little blue for desuperheating, a 12 plate HX, a CPEV on the second stage, a hot gas bypass with electric solenoid valve, a small expansion tank, and some normal filter driers, oh and a high pressure cutoff from Danfoss.

After shrouding the big condenser, and putting on the fans, I decided to do a little display, so enjoy, I'll be away this weekend, but expect some more updates early next week!
Oh and a 5ft braided stainless steel flex, with an ancient 1.25" Runmc Stepper on the end!

http://www.thewiltedrose.net/adam/Phase%20Projects%2008/Project%20Boa/DSC03146.JPG
http://www.thewiltedrose.net/adam/Phase%20Projects%2008/Project%20Boa/DSC03147.JPG
http://www.thewiltedrose.net/adam/Phase%20Projects%2008/Project%20Boa/DSC03148.JPG
http://www.thewiltedrose.net/adam/Phase%20Projects%2008/Project%20Boa/DSC03149.JPG

[[XC] gomeler]

Looks like a good start, now you just need some hardware. An E6300 doesn't count ;)

[Polizei]

CPEV on the second stage, but you have a captupe running to the evap? Or is that for the hot gas bypass?

[n00b 0f l337]

Captubes coming off, going to replace with 1/8" OD copper tube, that will head to CPEV and have a branch off to hot gas bypass as well.

[before]

Good luck mate :toast:

[mytekcontrols]

Another one already! Nol you simply amaze me, how do you ever do it?

Between school, the girl friend, and I assume a job of some kind (other than building phase change units for everybody), where do you find time?

Ohh to be young again :rolleyes:

Good luck! looks to be a great project, and off to a good start.

[tiborrr]

Seems like a great start. I would use non-floated oil separator with manual oil-return directly as a hot gas bypas. Great for fighting coldbug on the yorkfields. Cheap, but if you already have solenoid, great! :D

Something similair to this:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=0TURqnM3kLw

Awaiting progress pictures! :yepp:

[n00b 0f l337]

Another one already! Nol you simply amaze me, how do you ever do it?

Between school, the girl friend, and I assume a job of some kind (other than building phase change units for everybody), where do you find time?

Ohh to be young again

Good luck! looks to be a great project, and off to a good start.
Simple trick, don't sleep ;)
Seems like a great start. I would use non-floated oil separator with manual oil-return directly as a hot gas bypas. Great for fighting coldbug on the yorkfields. Cheap, but if you already have solenoid, great!
Works but can also send some oil into a -100C evap ;)

[n00b 0f l337]

Built a nice base yesterday out of some 2x3 pine, and a plywood top for it. Really quite solid when every piece has three 4 inch screws ;) (And actually the top went on with eighteen 2.5" screws).
Started mounting things down, then decided on just drilling holes for the momento.
So after that began plumbing, did up the gauge assemblies (leaklock is drying), and braze n bend a few pipes. I'm going to do as much of the cascade in 45% silver pre-fluxed rods as I can (Thanks again Gomeler! They're awesome). Doing the suction return in hard drawn 5/8" OD pipe. Lots of volume in there ;)

Pics a bit later.

Total size for the moment is 18" x 26ish". Not very big.

EDIT: Oh and did up some capillarys for gauges and first stage, going with dual 6' .031" on first stage. Then the CPEV on second with hot gas bypass.

[killermiller]

Those fans are going to be painful

[n00b 0f l337]

LoL Yes.
Pics in a little bit of brazed up first stage. I honestly had a hard time brazing to the accumulator. Just couldnt get her hot enough. I think I'll pick up a second MAPP torch.

[[XC] gomeler]

LoL Yes.
Pics in a little bit of brazed up first stage. I honestly had a hard time brazing to the accumulator. Just couldnt get her hot enough. I think I'll pick up a second MAPP torch.

Highly suggest getting that 2nd torch. You do learn all sorts of new tricks in brazing though like manipulation a torch with your bottom 3 fingers and a rod with your thumb and index finger. That's fun to do on evaps :ROTF:

[n00b 0f l337]

I only need one for evaps ;)

[[XC] gomeler]

I only need one for evaps ;)

Everything goes faster with two :cool:

[n00b 0f l337]

http://www.thewiltedrose.net/adam/Phase%20Projects%2008/Project%20Boa/DSC03150.JPG
Some wanted a shot of my workspace. This one is a few weeks old but still does well. Yes its a huge space.
And heres a brazed up first stage, gotta put on some rubber feet if I have any that'll fit, and clean that sucker.
http://www.thewiltedrose.net/adam/Phase%20Projects%2008/Project%20Boa/DSC03152.JPG
http://www.thewiltedrose.net/adam/Phase%20Projects%2008/Project%20Boa/DSC03151.JPG

[[XC] gomeler]

Looking good. You'll have a few days headstart, but the Cold Enough Cascade shall prevail :D

[systemviper]

sweet,. look forward to watching the build and better even understanding what is going on.

keep up the good work,

[n00b 0f l337]

Have a q? Ask :)

[killermiller]

How much are those Temprite 900's?

[n00b 0f l337]

Close to $200 ish.

[gosmeyer]

Go Adam Go, Is that the man cave?

[n00b 0f l337]

Hahaha yes :)

[Polizei]

I love the "Crap" label on the table and "More Crap" on the monitor.

:ROTF:

[killermiller]

How much R14 did you use on NCE? Are you going to use it for Boa?

[{.bLanK} GoD]

gomeler;2901989']Highly suggest getting that 2nd torch. You do learn all sorts of new tricks in brazing though like manipulation a torch with your bottom 3 fingers and a rod with your thumb and index finger. That's fun to do on evaps :ROTF:

Bugger that!
You must be able to justify buying an oxy/acet buy now Adam.
Nice size work space, good to see it's fairly tidy too.:up:

[wdrzal]

Built a nice base yesterday out of some 2x3 pine, and a plywood top for it.


Top looks like MDf (mediun denisity fiberboard), not plywood,Mdf is a poor choice for this application (screws & Bolts don't tend to hold well) . IMO

[n00b 0f l337]

Composite plywood ;) Trust me this stuff holds just fine, doesn't look to great but it doesn't flex, can be drilled and bolted to easily, and happens to look okay.

[runmc]

MGF is a poor choice for a cascade base :shakes: Trust me and Walt. You need 3/4" plywood with a piece of sheet metal on top of that. It is your choice as to what you prefer, but I want new builders to be informed on what is best as far as material you can get at Home Depot. Obviously a metal base would be the best choice.

What you are using is not plywood Adam. If it is layered composition board, it would be my first time to every see that.

[n00b 0f l337]

Hmmm receipt called it "composite plywood". I understand the need for true plywood, I just don't like it. Won't be really moving or shipping this either, and the under frame is quite strong. (Got two cross beams).

So everyone, use plywood! (even if its fugly :P)

[mytekcontrols]

I've got a suggestion: Use plywood for strength, but add a piece of MDF to the top (w/liquid nails in-between) for beauty. Basically a custom laminate.

[n00b 0f l337]

I mean sure you can do that, but this stuff will do just fine with the frame its bolted to to hold up the cascade. For shipping though I'd probably swap to something stiffer or add another cross member inside.

[wdrzal]

I mean sure you can do that, but this stuff will do just fine with the frame its bolted to to hold up the cascade. For shipping though I'd probably swap to something stiffer or add another cross member inside.

Until you decide to sell or ship it,just Ask Luke how well it holds up in shipping.

You guys always blame the shipper,I usually blame the manufacturer/builder or the persons who improperly packed it.

Ps: All the packing in the world won't help a system survive that's not built to sustain the rigors of shipping .

Nothing better than metal, thats includes for thermodynamic reasons also

[n00b 0f l337]

Yeah I wish I had a benchbreak :(
Luke also was just on a sheet, he didnt have 2x3's under neath :)

[Duh]

semi OT: really envy you that workplace ( not being ironic).. would like to have a place were no one would break my...:D

on topic: looks good.. continue showing us your knowledge :)

[Xeon th MG Pony]

Pink couch? and no disco ball? tsk tsk.

Buy aluminium sheet, I get a 10 by 20 sheet of 1/8 or better for less then 20 bucks, and then some aluminium 1" square stock for the base is dirt cheap, 316SS Bolts with nylock nuts costs less then a dollar! shop around my friend!

[Polizei]

Pink couch? and no disco ball? tsk tsk.


:ROTF:

[n00b 0f l337]

Hahaha just stored from an old life. Shouldnt have put up that pic! ;) :lol:
As for metal basing, I just don't seem to have someone close or a place thats not rediculously overcharged. Plus I have really no tools for working with metal. Eventually I will.

[runmc]

No flexibility in that hard copper and lots of joints. Joints may start coming loose on ya. :)

[[XC] gomeler]

Pick up the yellow pages and search for a sheetmetal or machine shop. Even my home of Augusta has two dozen or so and the population is a 200,000. Damn near every town will have somebody that can work on sheetmetal.

No flexibility in that hard copper and lots of joints. Joints may start coming loose on ya. :)

That's what I said. The response was "let it vibrate" :p:

[wdrzal]

And look at many people who don't even advertise,but will do a small Job for ya.There a lot of people close noob,you just got to seek them out.

I purchased a 8' brake when I was 22 (Pexto16 GA.)to bend Quarter panels for a race car....


Guys who do forced air heating & AC also are goods places to look.Big shops don't usually want to mess with a one off job so find the guys who have nice shops ,but you need to get out and ask. There not going to be looking for you.....

[n00b 0f l337]

After seeing cold ice and a few other euros work there magic with hard joints i'm willing to try, however I think I'm going to install a "snake" one of those vibration reducers.

[n00b 0f l337]

http://www.thewiltedrose.net/adam/Phase%20Projects%2008/Project%20Boa/DSC03166.JPG

http://www.thewiltedrose.net/adam/Phase%20Projects%2008/Project%20Boa/DSC03167.JPG

http://www.thewiltedrose.net/adam/Phase%20Projects%2008/Project%20Boa/DSC03168.JPG

Updates! First is done and slightly charged, now second is in piping. Working to finish the lineset up for CPEV and such with feeder line and hot gas bypass assembly :)

[teyber]

lol@ harddrawn tubing? I hate when you get hard drawn that hot how it turns that red color. Looks great appreciate the update :D

[n00b 0f l337]

Bit of a lol yes, however thats how I decided to do this thing. After running a few times theres really no problem in vibration across the hard drawn.

[killermiller]

Did you use flux on those joints?

[n00b 0f l337]

Prefluxed/phosphorous rods.

[mytekcontrols]

Wow that's a lot of Couplings :eek:

Adam --- I know it's not cheap, but you really got to get yourself set-up with a 1/2" and 5/8" tubing bender. It makes life so much easier, and cuts down on the amount of soldering (and possible leaks). You could have eliminated at least 10 solder joints, and 5 copper ells on that one line alone.

Other than that; the project is looking good :)

I might have missed it, but what temp and load are you shooting for?

[n00b 0f l337]

So figured I should get some more on this done ;)
So I did.
All brazed up now, begin pressure testing each stage, and then tune tune away ;)
So you can see CPEV and Hot gas bypass solenoid on 2nd stage, as well as sa small inline expansion volume. And of course everything all piped up. Super long flex line though ;) Gotta love it.
http://www.thewiltedrose.net/adam/Phase%20Projects%2008/Project%20Boa/DSC03172.JPG
http://www.thewiltedrose.net/adam/Phase%20Projects%2008/Project%20Boa/DSC03173.JPG
http://www.thewiltedrose.net/adam/Phase%20Projects%2008/Project%20Boa/DSC03174.JPG
http://www.thewiltedrose.net/adam/Phase%20Projects%2008/Project%20Boa/DSC03175.JPG

[QuantumZero]

Looks beautiful. hope we see what this thing can do soon

[n00b 0f l337]

Oh she is, very tight and compact for this sorta power, and the pipes all sorta parallel up and such to be sexy. The insulation should actually fit in just right and make it look sweeter!

[teyber]

beaut! you know my thoughts from msn. How much did you pay for that oil sep?

i hate the look of brazed hard drawn copper but it'll be insulated anyways

peace

[n00b 0f l337]

Ya I dunno what I was thinking with the hard drawn, didn't do the second stage in it. Might end up replacing it on the first stage, but will probably just leave it.
Looks great though don't it. How much I pay? Alot too much :( But should work amazingly.

[teyber]

You could prolly just grind down some of the brazing rod, and paint her up... would problably be less work then tearing down and would look better imo :D

idk if you make a case for it problably no need to change, depends if your a perfectionist or not.

regards

[n00b 0f l337]

Anyone else ever work with a CPEV on the second stage? I put in a 6ft 1/8" feeder line. The hot gas bypass I have a feeling is going to get rather cold ;)

[DagoDuck]

Why did you use a liquid accumulator despite the fact that it is a rotary compressor and where do you get those? Which diameter and which length does it have? Thank you. :)

[n00b 0f l337]

Simple expansion volume. They were $2 for a long time on ebay, till I told Jinu whom bought them all I beleive, ask him if he's willing to sell them :)

[teyber]

i think jinu sold them to runmc whos now selling em for 21$ i believe...

now i understand why you are stingy with links nol :P

regards

[before]

Anyone else ever work with a CPEV on the second stage? I put in a 6ft 1/8" feeder line. The hot gas bypass I have a feeling is going to get rather cold ;)

Liquid reciever is a must have (didn't have one, and I guess it would have been better to have one). I'm gonna install one before the CPEV of my 3-stager lowest stage... Without reciever, depending of CPEV adjustment, 'unused liquid' is stuck into the HX. I mean 'unused' instead of 'useless' cause that particular amount of refrigerant is needed or not relativily to CPEV tuning.

I've used 1.5m of 2mm captube; BTW, you may wish to use a 2mm captube of equivalent lenght than your flex succion line. I've finally removed the CPEV from my 2-stager lowest stage lol but I'm still sure it can be properly used here; reciever is the key... That's why I'm still looking for the way to use it in my biggest cascade.

[n00b 0f l337]

No, the inlines runmc has were custom ordered, they are straight, these have those 90's in the bottom already.
Was a hell of a deal, and yes I am stingy now with my links.
Before: A liquid receiver on the 2nd stage? I don't see that as being a good idea, static would go wayyyyyy up!

[DagoDuck]

THX, guys. :) Are we talking about these? http://www.under-the-ice.com/product_info.php?products_id=121

[n00b 0f l337]

Yes, the one I have fitted is not the same.

[teyber]

nol-

your temprite 900 has a inlet, a outlet, and a oil. all three of my temprite (i thought 900's) have a inlet, a outlet, a oil, and a DO NOT USE (access) on them. does this mean mine or yours are a 901?

[mytekcontrols]

The 900's, 902's, and 905's that I have used, only have the 3 connections. Never used a 901 so I am not sure on these, although it would seem odd if they were any different.

[teyber]

mytek- i got them out of a commercial cascade... and on the side they say temprite 900f... so :)

sorry for thread jack nol

[mytekcontrols]

Hmm... Interesting. Went to Temprite's website and didn't see any 900's with an "F" suffix. maybe it was custom made, or an obsolete item.

This is all I found:

[n00b 0f l337]

Odd, well I'd follow what it says, DO NOT USE, means DO NOT USE. ;)

This projects sitting anyway, no need for a cascade like this for myself, so sit it shall, maybe next year.