dont move cold tubing

[KennethChong]

Well got my cpu block unsulated for my 2.4, go to install it and im guessing you have an idea what happend next.

Get it installed just fine, then i turn the pump on letting the tubing fill, about 5 mins later i start to do some general cleaning up and move the mobo around a bit, and i hear this cracking sound, then i see water pooring out all around the base of the cpu block :/ this isnt my day. Gave it a wipe down and now im letting it sit for a while, hopefully nothing is dead.

[ellsworth]

man antifreeze takes years to evaporate good luck with that, if you used methanol it would be evaporated by now :D

[KennethChong]

huh? i dont use antifreeze, i use a 10/90 water/meth mix, antifreeze doesnt work well at -60c

[ellsworth]

ok good hehe, just keep open flames away from that area of your house for a while while it evaporates haha

[KennethChong]

lol yea, it doesnt smell that bad when its in the container, but as soon as you take something out of it, or spash any around, then it starts to evaporate and smell :/, i let a beer sit in it for a few minutes today, best beer ive had in a while :D

[ellsworth]

you could have a 90/10 vodka and water mix and just hook up a hose for casual use.

[KennethChong]

lol, would that really work? man, i can get that for cheap!

[ellsworth]

yea its ethanol, it gets really viscous however at low temps, almost like motor oil. everclear would work better since its more pure

[KennethChong]

lol, now that isnt cheap. that would be pretty fun though.

[ellsworth]

well vodka is alreay water and ethanol...

:toast:

[KennethChong]

the mixture im using right now has a bit of problems at lower temps, but it pulls threw, man, that would be pretty cool though. buddy comes over and gets a glass from the chiller.

[ellsworth]

ahha yea just make sure to keep your res stocked so your comp can have some too!

[KennethChong]

lol :D

[eva2000]

:eek: some scary stuff i'm reading

[KennethChong]

uh oh, i think its time for the crazy chinese guy to strike again, the more i think about it the more i like this idea, even if i have to turn the temp down a bit.

[sjohnson]

Use the strongest vodka you can find, and add some everclear to make the grade on the mix (bring up the alchohol) :D

Careful on the everclear, I've had to take more than one bud to the emergency room after drinking it - that stuff, as nasty as it goes down, goes down TOO easy and the BAC zooms. Lost carotid pulse on one friend, thank god he pulled through...

[KennethChong]

yea, that stuff kind of scares me sometimes, i wont be adding that much, cant get it for the same price as the vodka, i know someone that whole sales it, i can get it for pretty cheap. It will still be kind of weird asking for 8 gallons of vodka lol.

[afireinside]

Ouch I hope your board isint dead. At least I know not to do that now :D Hum vodka chilling sounds fun....

[Keeper]

I took a guy to the hospital after he chugged some everclear…………he got 6 or 7 swallows before he started to gag. He was blind and paralyzed before we got him to the hospital. He was in a coma for almost a week, he got his sight back and was able to walk after several weeks in the hospital…………..but he was never the same again.

That stuff is 190 proof and about $30U.S. a half gallon, I priced it for my chiller………..decided on isopropyl 91 percent alcohol instead.

[afireinside]

^^and why did he chug everclear?

[ellsworth]

i suggested everclear just because it is really pure not becasue it is fun to drink. the stuff is scary and i cant imagine why anyone would want to drink it straight. i would just get the cheapest vodka possible, but since its 80 proof i think thats around 50/50mix im not sure.

[SpicyHuevos]

rubbing alcohol.glycol.and h20 do wonders:slobber:

[Keeper]

Originally posted by afireinside
^^and why did he chug everclear?


We were prepping a party, and while making the punch (sprite, pineapple juice and
Everclear), this kid piped off a “why waste the Everclear”, someone said back to him “what are you talking about?” and he said “I drink it straight up all the time”. Well, the guy pouring the Everclear handed him the bottle and said something like “show us”, and the poor guy turned up the bottle up. It was really stupid; we were in high school so this guy was at the most 16, 17 years old. Everybody felt really bad about the whole thing, but this poor kid was never the same again.

[sjohnson]

The guys iI took to the hospital were also kind of young, 18 and 20. Even though warned that a 50/50 Everclear and Orange Juice mix was potent, even deadly, the lack of "kick" going down led them to think there wasn't much to warnings, that we were pulling their legs about some weak stuff. They both drank around 10 of those everclear "screwdrivers" before succumbing to the effect, all the time denying to various people that they'd had more than one or two...

[KennethChong]

yea, we had our share of everclear cases at my high school, mostly kids trying to prove themselves :/

[Radelon]

Forget everclear, get some Moonshine......... now that will definitely do the trick. Just be careful though, stuff I have burns through paper cups.

[KennethChong]

put in the order today, 8 gallons, for 24$ :D

[KennethChong]

oh and the board still works :D

[kromosto]

i drunk most of that thing in huge amounts and only one chome at my life (that can be a world record of drinking much as you can only the rule is not to die lol:)) now my liver is not good and cant drink anymore (have risk of toxic hepatit) maybe it is the best thing can happen to me

lord of drinks :) lol

[KennethChong]

i used to be bad back in hong kong, me and my freinds would go out till 4 in the morning almost everynight for a while there, calmed down sence then though.

[ellsworth]

any progress? are you still going to do the vodka? just curious

[KennethChong]

yea i am, just have to wait about 2 days for the shipment to get in :/

[KennethChong]

got it in tonight, 8 huge sacks of it, time to fill it up!

[FragMagnet]

To all you Alky users ( comps only, to thin the field down ;) ), do you do anything to keep it from deteriorating the hoses/rubber in the system ?

In my experience with race cars, at the end of the day they completely flush the systems out, otherwise it kills the rubber and corrodes the aluminum ??

[Keeper]

I used Isopropyl Alcohol for close to a year in one of my rigs without changing it. I recently went to another block and better cooling and found no hose deterioration or corrosion in the water block. All the seals were still good, even in the pump. I was using 70% alcohol; I am using 91% on the new rig, after two months of use, the alcohol is still clear. I use vinyl hose that can be purchased at any hardware store.

[FragMagnet]

Originally posted by Keeper
I used Isopropyl Alcohol for close to a year in one of my rigs without changing it. I recently went to another block and better cooling and found no hose deterioration or corrosion in the water block. All the seals were still good, even in the pump. I was using 70% alcohol; I am using 91% on the new rig, after two months of use, the alcohol is still clear. I use vinyl hose that can be purchased at any hardware store.

Interesting ! I find with distilled H2O and redline that vinyl gets brittle in a short time. I switched too the re-inforced double wall with the mesh , and same thing. Before that I was using the Opaque hard plastic lines with compression fittings, but recently found Tygon localy for my v.card, and will switch the rest of the system over later.

I guess the Iso is more forgiving than Methanol, or it is because it is diluted, or the majority of PC WC hardware is anodized ???

[Keeper]

My lines were in such good shape, I used them on the new rig. I need to look at how thick this vinyl is, it is heavier than the tube that came with my blocks(Tygon).

[KennethChong]

I used almost pure methonal in my old set up, 10% water, tubes are fine.

ps: got it all filled. Chilling it down now, at -10c and counting! Drinking time!

[FragMagnet]

Originally posted by KennethChong
I used almost pure methonal in my old set up, 10% water, tubes are fine.

ps: got it all filled. Chilling it down now, at -10c and counting! Drinking time!

10% water ! You can't be the bartender any more if you're going to water down the drinks :p:

[KennethChong]

lol, well it sure is good!

[uclajd]

Originally posted by KennethChong
Get it installed just fine, then i turn the pump on letting the tubing fill, about 5 mins later i start to do some general cleaning up and move the mobo around a bit, and i hear this cracking sound, then i see water pooring out all around the base of the cpu block Hey Kenneth, glad to hear your board still works.

But so much for your "ClearFLEX is just as good as Tygon" theory? :stick:

Tygon 3603 "Remains flexible at -45°F (-43°)" (http://www.tygon.com/Data/Element/Node/ProductLine/product_line_edit.asp?ele_ch_id=L00000000000000014 95)

Just got 10' worth of 3603 from Danger Den in the mail yesterday. ;) To think I was having buyer's remorse. :cool:

Oh, and if that isn't low enough for you, R-1000 (http://www.tygon.com/Data/Element/Node/ProductLine/product_line_edit.asp?ele_ch_id=L00000000000000015 03) stays flexible at -100°F (-73°C ). :thumbsup:

[TheDude]

Tygon must be tough stuff if it's Autoclavable! Glad I got it now...don't have an autoclave tho lol :D

[uclajd]

Originally posted by Keeper
I used Isopropyl Alcohol for close to a year in one of my rigs without changing it. I recently went to another block and better cooling and found no hose deterioration or corrosion in the water block. All the seals were still good, even in the pump. I was using 70% alcohol; I am using 91% on the new rig, after two months of use, the alcohol is still clear. I use vinyl hose that can be purchased at any hardware store. Keeper,

Thanks for the report. I was planning on using 70% isopropanol in my in-development chiller too. I'd go the Everclear route, but can't get it in Cali, and I don't feel like humping all the way to Tiajuana for it.

I think using Methanol is insane. As I have said before, if I want to risk my life for kicks, I'll go buy a GSX-R1000 (http://www.suzukicycles.com/sr_03/supersport/fs_gsxr1000.htm).

You might get lesser performance with 91% though. While your freezing point will lower, your thermal conductivity will lessen and your viscosity will increase. Have you compared the performance of both on identical rigs?

Glad to hear someone has used isopropyl with success. :toast:

[Keeper]

I chose isopropyl after messing with methanol; it is static resistant and less toxic. I am waiting for some cooler weather to add a pelt to my set up….when I opener up I plan on diluting my mix for better thermal conductivity. The increased viscosity from 70 to 91 is negligible.

[Penti]

Originally posted by KennethChong
I used almost pure methonal in my old set up, 10% water, tubes are fine.

ps: got it all filled. Chilling it down now, at -10c and counting! Drinking time!

Hehe, cant be good to breath in methanol fumes. BTW is that vodka you did bought really drinkable =)

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Originally posted by Penti
Hehe, cant be good to breath in methanol fumes. BTW is that vodka you did bought really drinkable =)
You don't have to breath in methanol fumes..

[uclajd]

Originally posted by IamAnoobieCheez
You don't have to breathe in methanol fumes.. Exactly. One reason to have UV die - other than aesthetics - is of course why it was first invented: leak testing.

Just filled my watercooling system yesterday with distilled H2O, Hy-perlube, UV dye, and some algaecide. Ran the UV cathode all over the circuit, my rig, the carpet. Not a drop spilled.

But, despite my best efforts, my fingers glowed like Monty Burns.

Sure, I'd be more careful with methanol, but why take the risk?

[charlie]

BTW, I don't think you used methanol...it's freakin rocket fuel and a major neuro toxin...Everclear is basically 95% ETHANOL.
C
BTW 100% Isopropyl freezes at -88C...still searching for fp on 70% Isopropyl

FP 70% Isopropyl alcohol is -90C...good enough!

[KennethChong]

yes i did use methonal, and yes it is very flamable, but i didnt have any source of heat near it and in a sealed res so it didnt really matter. Worked very well, i know many a person that have used it for there chillers.

Yes its drinkible :) Very tasty too, broke a glass when i got some at -20c, that was my favorate drinking glass too :/

[Keeper]

Originally posted by uclajd
Exactly. One reason to have UV die - other than aesthetics - is of course why it was first invented: leak testing.


Some of us use some rather large reservoirs, when pouring by the gallon, fumes are unavoidable. I have an airtight setup, but it is not a closed loop, and it took a couple of days of testing to put a final seal on the reservoir. Methanol is scary stuff when the opening on your reservoir is close to 12 inches wide and there is electrical equipment close by.

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Originally posted by uclajd
Sure, I'd be more careful with methanol, but why take the risk?
risk?.. using vodka or other types of alcohol is not risk then? :) alcohol is more flammable than the methanol. I wouldn't want to take a risk having a hydrogen bomb explosion in your bedroom do you..

for a low level sub zero liquid cooling(upto -30C), mixture of methanol and water is fine. You don't have to open up the reservoir lead and stick you nose in there and breath in all you could.. eww.. smell.

methanol is cheap to get. I already have them and it's easy to get.

Not that I worship methanol nor biased to death, but like I've said, it's easy to get, and cheap. I'll use alcohol if I need to. Don't get in the idea that I am an anti-alcohol user. I am the one who would want to use alcohol more, heh..... bigggggg mistake.


You want some serious low temp, use 99% pure alcohol at mixture ratio of 100 : 0 (99%pure alcohol : water).


Forget vodka.. nor any other types of wisky and whines or whatever.. ain't strong enough, sorry. ;)

[Penti]

Eh, i though hydrogen was hard to ignite. They need Tetra-Ethyl Borane to ignite it on the sr-71 spyplane, buts that in a mixture with something else too. But alcohol including methanol is ofcourse flamable.

I would wory more about using methanol becuse you will breath it in ween filling the reservoir and the system is probably not 100% sealed.

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Originally posted by Penti
Eh, i though hydrogen was hard to ignite. They need Tetra-Ethyl Borane to ignite it on the sr-71 spyplane, buts that in a mixture with something else too. But alcohol including methanol is ofcourse flamable.
When I said about "Hydrogen Bomb Explosion" was a figurative speech. I thought you would've figured it out.. ;) Can't believe you took it like that. But the point I was making is that alcohol is flammable. How would people not worry and take risk about being flammable? Alcohol is worse than methanol.



I would wory more about using methanol becuse you will breath it in ween filling the reservoir and the system is probably not 100% sealed.
no...

I would worry more about using alcohol because it is more flammable. It would blow up your room if used too much. Could catch sparks and boom..... could cost lives too not only the cost of your room and the entire house. ;)

and wrong again... I don't have a sealing problem.

;)

[IamAnoobieCheez]

I'm not the person who was trying to put down on using alcohol, but since you are keep pushing it, I'm gonna have to go against alcohol. ;) alcohol.. eww... too flammable. No thank you. ;)


what's more important... breathing in methanol deliberately Versus catch a spark and start a fire explosion and destroy the house and the lives?


The answer is: I would take methanol route.



But get this through your head, if the person is willing to do this, attaining super low liquid temperatures, you would have to use alcohol. Highly concentrated alcohol. Even though it is dangerous, you still take the risk. You want to take the risk, do it. I would. So don't force me into thinking that I am a Methanol lover and hate alcohol. Alcohol action will be performed when I need it. That's the concept. ;)


If Chong wants to use methanol, let him use it. There is nothing wrong with that. If he wants to use alcohol, let him use it. He knows what he is doing with it. He can take care of stuff.

[Keeper]

Actually iso alcohol is not static sensitive, thus my choice, add the benefit of it not being anywhere near as toxic (fumes) as Methanol it becomes even more attractive. Ethanol just costs too much.

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Originally posted by Keeper
Actually iso alcohol is not static sensitive, thus my choice, add the benefit of it not being anywhere near as toxic (fumes) as Methanol it becomes even more attractive. Ethanol just costs too much.


so being static sensitve-free will not ignite fire?

LOL







oh yeah and what makes you think inhaling the isopropyl alcohol is safe? it's not safe. Don't favor the alcohol because it smells better than methanol. ;)

[Keeper]

Within limits, I wouldn’t be flipping my BIC just to test it. But not being static sensitive makes it a lot safer to work with around electrical equipment. I didn’t want something that you could put in a AA fuel dragster next to my compressor when the power failed, so flammability was something that I looked at in choosing the fluid I wanted. Iso had the safe tolerances at concentrated levels.

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Originally posted by Keeper
Within limits, I wouldn’t be flipping my BIC just to test it. But not being static sensitive makes it a lot safer to work with around electrical equipment. I didn’t want something that you could put in a AA fuel dragster next to my compressor when the power failed, so flammability was something that I looked at in choosing the fluid I wanted. Iso had the safe tolerances at concentrated levels.

You wouldn't test it because it will ignite. ;)

Isopropyl alcohol is highly flammable.

Why did you say just "not static sensitive". Why not say "not flammable". ;)





oh and don't forget to read my previous message. I added a little comment about the fumes.

[Keeper]

I said not static sensitive because it is still flammable, but not as prone to ignite as a result of a spark. I am not worried about somebody putting a match to it, but static sparks from electrical switching is something I do think about

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Originally posted by Keeper
I said not static sensitive because it is still flammable, but not as prone to ignite as a result of a spark. I am not worried about somebody putting a match to it, but static sparks from electrical switching is something I do think about
Didn't you say "Iso Alcohol"? That's a Isopropyl Alcohol. Are you using rubbing alcohol?

Back to square 1, read my previous message. Isopropyl alcohol is highly flammable.



I wasn't talking about electrical switching. If it has some sort of sparking that could be caused, it is dangerous. I was mainly talking about sparks such as ligher or any other type of source that could cause it to ignite fire. What you are doing is strongly favoring the alcohol and putting excuse on fumes on the methanol. What makes you think alcohol is safe? Alcohol is toxic too, you didn't know??

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Rule number 1:

Both Isopropyl Alcohol and Methanol are toxic, through absorbtion, inhalation, ingestion and exposed to flammability.

Methanol is part of the alcohol family and has some level of flammability. The Isopropyl alcohol is highly freaking flammable, not only the flammability but is also toxic in other areas I just have mentioned to you here. Just because it smells better than methanol doesn't mean it's safe. You might want to look it up in the information sources. ;)

[Keeper]

I use Alcohol because it doesn't freeze, I have used Methanol, but it difficult to find over 40% (at least here).

Here are some stats for anyone wanting to know "what is more likely to kill you".

Methanol wins hands down.


In the US: In some studies, alcohol ingestions account for 13-14 hospital admissions per 1000 people. Ethanol is the most common alcohol ingestion. Acute intoxication is seen commonly in the ED. Other studies have shown that up to a third of all patients have detectable ethanol levels at ED presentation, irrespective of the chief complaint. Up to 72% of trauma patients had positive toxicology screen results; ethanol accounted for 55% of these findings.

Methanol poisoning epidemics have occurred because of ingestion of contaminated moonshine. The most notable was in Atlanta in 1951, when 90 gallons of illicit whiskey containing 35-40% methanol produced 323 poisonings and 41 deaths.

In 1998, ethanol accounted for 33,269 exposures reported to US poison centers, of which 973 (2.9%) resulted in major toxicity and 42 (0.1%) resulted in death.

In 1998, isopropanol accounted for 19,301 exposures reported to US poison centers, of which 83 (0.4%) resulted in major toxicity and 3 (0.02%) resulted in death.

In 1998, methanol accounted for 1041 exposures reported to US poison centers, of which 24 (2.3%) resulted in major toxicity and 10 (1%) resulted in death.

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Originally posted by Keeper
I use Alcohol because it doesn't freeze, I have used Methanol, but it difficult to find over 40% (at least here).

Here are some stats for anyone wanting to know "what is more likely to kill you".

Methanol wins hands down.


In the US: In some studies, alcohol ingestions account for 13-14 hospital admissions per 1000 people. Ethanol is the most common alcohol ingestion. Acute intoxication is seen commonly in the ED. Other studies have shown that up to a third of all patients have detectable ethanol levels at ED presentation, irrespective of the chief complaint. Up to 72% of trauma patients had positive toxicology screen results; ethanol accounted for 55% of these findings.

Methanol poisoning epidemics have occurred because of ingestion of contaminated moonshine. The most notable was in Atlanta in 1951, when 90 gallons of illicit whiskey containing 35-40% methanol produced 323 poisonings and 41 deaths.

In 1998, ethanol accounted for 33,269 exposures reported to US poison centers, of which 973 (2.9%) resulted in major toxicity and 42 (0.1%) resulted in death.

In 1998, isopropanol accounted for 19,301 exposures reported to US poison centers, of which 83 (0.4%) resulted in major toxicity and 3 (0.02%) resulted in death.

In 1998, methanol accounted for 1041 exposures reported to US poison centers, of which 24 (2.3%) resulted in major toxicity and 10 (1%) resulted in death.
With methanol, you don't have to deliberately drink it. ;)

With alcohol, you take greater risk in catching fire. If used heavily at large volume, you are looking at bomb explosion generator. A bomb explosion not only destroys your house, but kills more than more person at a time.

Methanol is very toxic and can cause death by deliberately drinking it. Saying "Oh... I wanna die. I want to commit a suicide". ;) But the level of toxicity is depend on the volume and how it is used. Forget the wisky part where they did put the methanol in there. That was back then, this is now. You suppose to know these alcoholic fluids before you do any cooling for your computers. ;)


Bottome line, alcohol, too flammable. Use it the wrong way, or by accidents, you are screwed.

it is depends on how you look at the perspective. If we look at it this way, what you've said about "what is more likely to kill you".

Methanol wins hands down.??

would be

"Isopropyl alcohol wins hands down".


;)

[charlie]

If isopropyl alcohol is so bad...why do people "rub" it into sore muscles? Hmmm...? Or using it to disinfect cuts, hmmm? 99% of American households have a couple bottles of 70% isopropyl alcohol under the bathroom sink, you think it's that bad?
BTW, I stuck a bottle in the freezer and it DID thicken a little bit (at -25C) not much... but a bit.
C

[afireinside]

So wait a spark from my pump/window AC unit could make my chiller tank filled with anti freeze go boom?

[KennethChong]

dang, you all must have some really bad electronics in your rooms lol. If you have a sealed container, and no live fireworks in your room, there really isnt that much to worry about, you have to be carefull yes, but i say if you do ingnite it, you probly deserve it becuase youve done something dumb.

[afireinside]

My tank won't be exactly sealed for a few hours while I'm testing. Could turning my pump on ignite fumes in the room or am I being crazy and paranoied?

[KennethChong]

naw, with anti freeze it doesnt really matter. Hell my first chiller i still have sitting in the garadge, keep the water at around 10c for my beer.

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Originally posted by charlie
If isopropyl alcohol is so bad... why do people "rub" it into sore muscles? Hmmm...?
I don't know about that. Are you sure they use isoproprl alcohol for that purpose?

what about this?
"The symptoms of ingestion occur within 30 minutes, with GI complaints of pain, vomiting, and hematemesis being predominant. Central nervous system effects include headache, muscular incoordination, ataxia, confusion, and coma. Pupil size may vary, but it is not uncommon to have miotic pupils. Should the eyes have direct exposure to isopropyl alcohol corneal de-epithelialization has been reported."

Good for the Sore muscles huh??


"Symptoms from ingestion, inhalation or absorption of large quantities include flushing, headache, dizziness, mental depression, nausea, vomiting, anesthesia, and coma. Alcohol baths or sponges to soothe a fever can lead to acute poisoning through skin absorption or inhalation".

Good for the Sore muscles huh??



"Isopropyl alcohol ingestion is common among children and adults as both accidental and suicidal ingestions because it is an easily available product" being such widely available product and mis-used and you are screwed? LOL





Or using it to disinfect cuts, hmmm? 99% of American households have a couple bottles of 70% isopropyl alcohol under the bathroom sink, you think it's that bad?
BTW, I stuck a bottle in the freezer and it DID thicken a little bit (at -25C) not much... but a bit.
C
You use it properly like that sure you wouldn't get troubled. ;)



The bottom line is that Alcohol sucks. It is highly flammable and still toxic. and yeah keep trying enhaling that stuff too huh? See how that feels. Keep inhaling it. Just like few people here say enhale that methanol. :rolleyes:

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Originally posted by KennethChong
dang, you all must have some really bad electronics in your rooms lol.
:D


If you have a sealed container, and no live fireworks in your room, there really isnt that much to worry about, you have to be carefull yes, but i say if you do ingnite it, you probly deserve it becuase youve done something dumb.
exactly................ I couldn't have said it better. :)

[Keeper]

You really got my curiosity going in this discussion, so I did a little experiment.

Step 1. I half filled a bowl with the 91% Isopropyl Alcohol I use in my reservoir; put it on the ground in a 103F environment.

Step 2. I agitated the alcohol by shaking the bowl while covered, then removing the cover and agitating again.

Step 3. I lit a sulfur match (from an MRE) directly over the bowl (2”) and then waved it over the bowl, closer and closer till I extinguished the flame by putting it in the alcohol.

Total time the flame from the match was within 2” of the bowl of 91% Isopropyl Alcohol was at least 10 seconds……….no ignition.

Conclusion; though Isopropyl Alcohol is highly flammable, 91% Isopropyl Alcohol doesn’t quite qualify as stand alone bomb material.

[charlie]

Isopropyl alcohol
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Isopropyl alcohol or isopropanol is a common name for 2-propanol, an alcohol used primarily for application to the skin, and popularly referred to as rubbing alcohol. Its formula is:



The alcohol-based sterilizing swabs used to clean skin before injections contain a 30% solution of isopropanol in water.


Dunno??
C

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Oh here's some more for you Alcohol fantatics..


Isopropyl Alcohol

Carcinogenicity: A statistical increase in cancer was observed in workers exposed industrially to isopropyl alcohol manufacture by the strong acid process. The risk of laryngeal cancer may also be elevated. :eek


Oh you think handling methanol is only bad? Even for the Isopropyl alcohol, talk about large volume to fill the res.. This is what you still have to do. --->>


Eyes

- Wear safety glasses and faceshield.

Skin

- Wear gloves, boots, apron.

- A full impermeable suit is recommended if exposure is possible to large portion of body.


Respiratory

- Wear NIOSH/MSHA approved respirator if any exposure occurs. LOL!!!



Ventilation: Use explosion-proof local exhaust ventilation.

[KennethChong]

we had to deal with it gallons at a time at a chem lab i used to work at, yes when its used at home in normal aplications its not really any threat, but when you start grouping gallons at a time togeather, you have to worry about the vapors mostly, you dont really notice them as much when its in a bunch, becuase when its spread thinly over a surface it evaporates very quickly and leaves a very noticable odor, but when you have it in quanity, then you just start to raise the leven in the room, weather you know it or not. That can be a prob if you dont have a window open. no no im not saying that your guna get cancer, but is it good for you? no. Best advice is maybe do a test run if you want with your res to make sure its the way you want it, then seal it off. most youll really see short term if you get too much exposer is a lightheaded fealing, if that starts to happen, just step outside for a minute, and quicly get the room ventilated.

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Originally posted by Keeper
You really got my curiosity going in this discussion, so I did a little experiment.

Step 1. I half filled a bowl with the 91% Isopropyl Alcohol I use in my reservoir; put it on the ground in a 103F environment.

Step 2. I agitated the alcohol by shaking the bowl while covered, then removing the cover and agitating again.

Step 3. I lit a sulfur match (from an MRE) directly over the bowl (2”) and then waved it over the bowl, closer and closer till I extinguished the flame by putting it in the alcohol.

Total time the flame from the match was within 2” of the bowl of 91% Isopropyl Alcohol was at least 10 seconds……….no ignition.

Conclusion; though Isopropyl Alcohol is highly flammable, 91% Isopropyl Alcohol doesn’t quite qualify as stand alone bomb material.
91% Isopropyl?? What kind of product are you using?

You didn't get the fire ignited because you diluted it. How can we trust you what you did?? Maybe you used the wrong type of liquid. How much of water did you mix? Try your experiment again. Biased experimentations do not count.

This would make information resources about the alcohol fraud. Who should we trust... You? or them?

;)

[charlie]

OK......
So what else can we use as a sub-zero coolant?
Any ideas?
C

[Illicit Tweakin]

calcium hydroxide maybe but initial test show it might cause to much corrosion.

stuff like hfe and flourinert but its real expensive.

Iso is definatly safer than methanol but it is also more viscous which sucks for us.

And methanol burns with an invisible flame.

[KennethChong]

Yup, cant see it burning, well sometimes you can, but you have to be in a dark room. I remember one time a tub of it about 10 square feet across with a oil base cought on fire in the lab, it was pretty cool in a compleatly black room, looked like there was a small blue gloss over the whole top of the liquid.

[Niven]

Hmm... ok im scared now, maybe I should stick with air cooling :/

[uclajd]

Wow, there is some serious misinformation on this board. I sure hope nobody is relying on this thread.

risk?.. using vodka or other types of alcohol is not risk then? alcohol is more flammable than the methanol.

Wrong on both counts. 1) Vodka is 40% alcohol, and 60% water, so it is not flammable. 2) Methanol is alcohol just as much as iso or ethyl are, and it is very flammable, and has been used as an additive to gasoline (i.e., gasahol). Please stop comparing methanol to alcohol. Methanol is alcohol you ninconpoop.

Both Isopropyl Alcohol and Methanol are toxic, through absorbtion...

Wrong again. Isopropyl is intended and sold for skin contact. It is used by nurses all over the world in hospitals and doctors' offices. On the label it is sold for "rubbing and massaging." On the back it says "Use: first aid to help prevent the risk of infection in minor cuts, burns, scrapes."

Used properly (e.g., not bathing in it, not drinking it), isopropyl is complete safe.

Methanol, on the other hand, is toxic and can be absorbed through the skin. It can cause blindness or death.

Isopropyl Alcohol

Carcinogenicity: A statistical increase in cancer was observed in workers exposed industrially to isopropyl alcohol manufacture by the strong acid process. The risk of laryngeal cancer may also be elevated.

Do you even read this stuff before you post it? This talks about the manufacture of isopropyl, not isopropyl itself. Isopropyl is not a carcinogen for crissakes!

Exposure Pathways

Methanol is a clear, colorless, flammable liquid w/ a faintly pleasant odor
Popularly known as wood alcohol, referred to as wood spirit, wood naphtha, pyroligneous spirit, and carbinol
Methanol is also added for a variety of commercial and consumer products such as windshield washing, and deicing solutions, duplicating fluids, solid canned fuels, paint removers, model airplane fuels, and embalming fluids
Other uses are as a solvent for shellacs, lacquers, adhesives, and inks, and alternative motor fuel
Serious methanol toxicity has been mostly related to ingestions, but exposures can also occur via inhalation and skin absorption (occupational or household settings)

Who's At Risk?

Workers most likely to be exposed by inhalation or skin exposure to methanol are bookbinders, bronzers, dyers, foundry workers, gilders, hat makers, ink makers, lab technicians, painters, photoengravers, and chemical manufacturers, aides using mimeograph machines, workers at refineries, fuel distribution centers, and service stations
Others at risk are: householders, hobbyists, and motorists using methanol-containing products can be at risk for inhalation exposure
The largest number of methanol exposures has been by ingestion- methanol poisoning has mostly occurred from shellac thinner, duplicator fluid, denatured alcohol, and gasoline ingestion from fuel siphoning (35,000/ yr)
Folate deficient people may be more susceptible to methanol toxicity; alcoholics have a history of both methanol ingestion and folate deficiency so they may have a dual risk
Prolonged skin exposure can have sever systemic effects and ingesting adulterated alcohol beverages increases methanol toxicity risk

Biological Fate

Acute Exposure

Acute effects are similar to other organic solvents: reversible sensory irritation, headache, nausea, narcosis, resp.tract irritation, blurred vision, dizziness, and inebriation. These effects are usually from ingestion exposure
Metabolic products of methanol can produce a syndrome or delayed-onset acidosis, obtundation, visual disturbance, and death due formic acid or lactic acid
There are also ophthalmologic and neurologic effects such as partial or total blindness, dementia, or a Parkinson-like sequelae in survivors of acute methanol intoxication.

Clinical Evaluation

Signs and Symptoms

Acute Exposure

Whether exposure is via ingestion, inhalation, or extensive skin contact people may develop: severe metabolic, ocular, and neurologic toxicity
Initial effects include cognitive slowing, cloudy sensorium (impairs brain fxn), progressive visual disturbances, and impairment of consciousness I sure hope nobody is reading this thread an relying on it. It would be best if the moderator would just delete it.

[Illicit Tweakin]

Great post.
:toast:

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Originally posted by uclajd
Wow, there is some serious misinformation on this board. I sure hope nobody is relying on this thread.
no... You are the misinformation. :)


risk?.. using vodka or other types of alcohol is not risk then? alcohol is more flammable than the methanol.

Wrong on both counts. 1) Vodka is 40% alcohol, and 60% water
Wrong again...

It is still alcohol beverage and some of them can be more dangerous depending on how you mix things in there. Vodka itself isnt' bad, but 40% of alcohol would also make it so weak it's pointless to use it as anti-freeze. ;) Pretty stupid idea.. really.


2) Methanol is alcohol
Drop what you are doing, Step back, and Read one of the messages where I explain about the methanol. When did I say methanol is not alcohol? When I said about alcohol, I was refering to Isopropyl alcohol since it is long to type it all. ;) For methanol, I just type methanol. Doh ;)



is very flammable
of course i said methanol is flammable too. When did I say it is not flammable? Pay attention. ;)


and has been used as an additive to gasoline (i.e., gasahol). Please stop comparing methanol to alcohol. Methanol is alcohol you ninconpoop.
Of course the methanol is used in many of gasoline. Did I have to explain all that out to you???? Oh My Gosh.... Wow. I might as fill up the entire thread with explanations and terms huh? Doh..

Watch your mouth. Calling names is not acceptable here. ninconpoop?? You are a "troll".




Both Isopropyl Alcohol and Methanol are toxic, through absorbtion...

Wrong again. Isopropyl is intended and sold for skin contact. It is used by nurses all over the world in hospitals and doctors' offices. On the label it is sold for "rubbing and massaging." On the back it says "Use: first aid to help prevent the risk of infection in minor cuts, burns, scrapes."
No, You are wrong again... and again. :eek:
Read this, again --->>>

Skin:
Acute: Skin contact would be expected to cause an irritation consisting of transient redness. This irritant effect would not result in permanent damage.

Chronic: Repeated or prolonged contact may cause a defatting action on the skin leading to dermatitis. Repeated exposure may result in allergic skin sensitization in some individuals.

http://www.camd.lsu.edu/msds/i/isopropyl_alcohol.htm#Health Watch out what you say. ;)



Used properly (e.g., not bathing in it, not drinking it), isopropyl is complete safe.
You wish if you want it to happen that way. Easily be reached by kids, they drink it, and go poo poo? LOL Doh.. It is completely deadly.



Methanol, on the other hand, is toxic and can be absorbed through the skin. It can cause blindness or death.
Wronggggggg again. ;) and again.

Methanol isn't the only one there. Have you forgot about the other types of alcohols??? What... rubbing alcohol is drinkable?? ROFLMAO!!!!!



Isopropyl Alcohol

Carcinogenicity: A statistical increase in cancer was observed in workers exposed industrially to isopropyl alcohol manufacture by the strong acid process. The risk of laryngeal cancer may also be elevated.

Do you even read this stuff before you post it? This talks about the manufacture of isopropyl, not isopropyl itself. Isopropyl is not a carcinogen for crissakes!
Of course I've read it first. I find anything bad during the process or even AFTER the process, I Post it anyway.. to show you how unsafe Iso Alcohol is. ;)



Exposure Pathways

Methanol is a clear, colorless, flammable liquid w/ a faintly pleasant odor
Popularly known as [b]wood alcohol, referred to as wood spirit, wood naphtha, pyroligneous spirit, and carbinol
Methanol is also added for a variety of commercial and consumer products such as windshield washing, and deicing solutions, duplicating fluids, solid canned fuels, paint removers, model airplane fuels, and embalming fluids
Other uses are as a solvent for shellacs, lacquers, adhesives, and inks, and alternative motor fuel
Serious methanol toxicity has been mostly related to ingestions, but exposures can also occur via inhalation and skin absorption (occupational or household settings)

Who's At Risk?
Wow... Copy and Paste.. Nice Job. :eek:

Tell me something I don't know. This is old stuff. Why don't you go through the whole thing?

Risk??.. That's just the methanol part. Have you forgotten about the Isopropyl part???????? OMG.. Don't make me to repeat..



Workers most likely to be exposed by inhalation or skin exposure to methanol are bookbinders, bronzers, dyers, foundry workers, gilders, hat makers, ink makers, lab technicians, painters, photoengravers, and chemical manufacturers, aides using mimeograph machines, workers at refineries, fuel distribution centers, and service stations
Others at risk are: householders, hobbyists, and motorists using methanol-containing products can be at risk for inhalation exposure
What about the Isopropyl alcohol? You don't ever have to worry about inhalation????? or skin exposure????? You only think about one thing, but not the other??? What is this... Garbage?



The largest number of methanol exposures has been by ingestion- methanol poisoning has mostly occurred from shellac thinner, duplicator fluid, denatured alcohol, and gasoline ingestion from fuel siphoning (35,000/ yr)
Folate deficient people may be more susceptible to methanol toxicity; alcoholics have a history of both methanol ingestion and folate deficiency so they may have a dual risk
Prolonged skin exposure can have sever systemic effects and ingesting adulterated alcohol beverages increases methanol toxicity risk

Biological Fate

Acute Exposure

Acute effects are similar to other organic solvents: reversible sensory irritation, headache, nausea, narcosis, resp.tract irritation, blurred vision, dizziness, and inebriation. These effects are usually from ingestion exposure
Metabolic products of methanol can produce a syndrome or delayed-onset acidosis, obtundation, visual disturbance, and death due formic acid or lactic acid
There are also ophthalmologic and neurologic effects such as partial or total blindness, dementia, or a Parkinson-like sequelae in survivors of acute methanol intoxication.

Clinical Evaluation

Signs and Symptoms

Acute Exposure

Whether exposure is via ingestion, inhalation, or extensive skin contact people may develop: severe metabolic, ocular, and neurologic toxicity
Initial effects include cognitive slowing, cloudy sensorium (impairs brain fxn), progressive visual disturbances, and impairment of consciousness

Once again, same thing as previous one. You get problems with Isopropyl alcohol which is TOXIC and DEADLY. LOL



I sure hope nobody is reading this thread an relying on it. It would be best if the moderator would just delete it.
Actually..... no, it would be best if the moderators delete you for spamming such fraud information. ;) Watch out what you say next time and be a little more careful before you spew.

Nearly 1000 people have already read posts in this thread and shows how fool you are.

I hope you will learn.. ;)

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Isopropyl alcohol is the most stinkin garbage fluid you would NOT want to mess around with. It is flammable, explosive, highly toxic, unwanted fluid that I would never want to use it.

Isopropyl alcohol = sucks.


Methanol alcohol = the best stuff.


Stay the hell away from the Iso.


;)

[TheDude]

This thread is becoming childish. I suggest everyone cool off before things go too far. Just agree to disagree and let it go at that.

[ellsworth]

isopropyl is used in the medical field right? i guess since its rather poisonous it is used to kill bacteria, as long as its not in our blood stream it seems pretty safe. i wish glycol worked better for our purposes. i think once we reach below the threshold of water being a liquid is when we focus on different fluids changing phase :D .

[charlie]

OK I'm confused. We need a chemist to visit and spread the truth!
Do we have chemists here??
And about Calcium Hydroxide mixed with water...this "chalk" water has a uber-low freezing point????? I don't think so...
i'M INCLINED TO BELIEVE UCLAJD AS IT'S THE CLOSEST TO WHAT MY OWN READING SUGGESTS.
C

[lalPOOO]

I really hate to make this my 4th post, and get into this silly nonsene, but I find it hard to stand by and try to ignore this...

I really don't understand why you're so afraid of the iso catching on fire. In a sealed system, it should be no more seceptable(sp) to blowing up and killing all the children then the bottle most people keep around the house.

Another thing about the iso's flamability, I'm not excatly the most 'safety oriented' person, and from time to time have gotten the urge to light things on fire. I have in the past used Iso (99% is what it says on the bottle) on things like rolled up napkins and other stuff. Contrary to what you're saying the small sparks from a lighter, which was probalby less then 2 cm away, was not able to ignite the iso soaked napkin.

and lastly, I use iso on my skin for all my cuts and scrapes and so on, the worst its ever done to me, is give me a dry skin. The warning labels on the bottle are based in truth, but are usually worst case senarios to cover the companies from possible lawsuits.

I'm sorry everyone for adding another response to this pretty ridiculous argument. :rolleyes:

[uclajd]

Originally posted by TheDude
This thread is becoming childish. I suggest everyone cool off before things go too far. Just agree to disagree and let it go at that. Dude, I understand your call for civility, but this guy is just flat wrong about a toxic fluid, and he has made this into a "who is right" thing rather than what the truth is. Readers' safety is at issue, and he is misinforming readers with some patently absurd claims. Therefore, I respectfully do not agree to disagree. The toxicity of a substance is a matter of fact, not opinion.

I'll make you a deal. I'll apply isopropyl on my face as an astringent twice a day for a week.

Anyone want to try the same - despite it causing blindness and death - with methanol, go ahead. We'll both report our findings a the end of the week; or, in the case of the methanol user, you can have your opthamologist or the executor of your estate report your findings, since you will be unable to do so.

Seriously Dude, this isn't an AMD vs. Intel or nvidia vs. ATI debate. This is a safety issue. Can methanol be handled safely? Yes, of course. But it is toxic - even from skin contact - that is a fact. My opinion is that it is not worth the risk for hobbyists, especially amateurs who don't even understand its toxicity. And I quote, in a fair-use excerpt from Ice Cold Computing (http://www.icecoldcomputing.com):Up to a 35/65 mixture, water/methanol is inflammable and pretty cheap (EUR 7,00 for a 5 liter can) and not very agressive. However, methanol is a very toxic substance which can cause blindness and death. Because methanol molecules are very small, the liquid will diffuse right through the skin when you spill it over your fingers. Looks like a no-go? Well, further research showed that the MAC (Maximal Allowable Concentration) values for methanol in air and methanol per kg of body mass are quite high. Normal precautions such as working in a well ventilated area, using latex gloves and protective eyewear when working with the liquid are sufficient to keep you out of the danger zone.
The second disadvantage of methanol is that the pure liquid is extremely flammable. Even worse: it burns with an almost invisible flame. You can have a large fire without seeing a single flame.

If you consider using methanol in your own system:

YES! It is toxic.
YES! It CAN and WILL kill or at least harm you when not handled carefully.
YES! Pure methanol is extremely flammable, and burns with an invisible flame.
NEVER! work with the liquid without proper precautions.

Never say I did not warn you. If you feel uncomfortable, use ethanol (the alcohol found in alcoholic beverages) instead of methanol. You need to add more of it to water to reach the same freezing point, and it will reduce the efficiency of your coolant, but in case of a severe accident you only end up drunk instead of dead. My advice to anyone considering sub-zero coolants is to do a lot of research. Do not rely on this thread. Ask your pharmacist or doctor about the safety and toxicity of such fluids. Or, contact your poison control center (http://www.aapcc.org/director2.htm) local and ask them.

As for the efficacy of cooling, go to Ice Cold Computing (http://www.icecoldcomputing.com), look under "articles" and select "about secondary coolants" (sorry, no direct link - it is a framed article protected by a script).

And with that, I am out. Happy (and safe) cooling.

JD

[TheDude]

uclajd,

I agree with you 100%.
Your information on this is correct and your point about safety is well taken.
But this was starting to become a flame fest and that was the childish behavior I was speaking of.
This can be discussed in an adult and mature manner.
It is my job to enforce the forum rules. As long as everyone stays within those guide lines, I don't have a problem with it.

[KennethChong]

Originally posted by TheDude
This thread is becoming childish. I suggest everyone cool off before things go too far. Just agree to disagree and let it go at that.

agreed, when did my thread become a flaming center. How about you just take it to a pm if you want to do that.


Do we have chemists here??

Uh, i worked in a chem lab for almost 10 years. I know a bit about it. and i already made my point on this subject, i dont remember even starting this thread and saying anything about any of these other subjects, just kind of takes away from the thread if you ask me :stick:

[Jeff]

Thank goodness for Ignore Lists.

[uclajd]

Originally posted by KennethChong
Uh, i worked in a chem lab for almost 10 years. I know a bit about it. and i already made my point on this subject, i dont remember even starting this thread and saying anything about any of these other subjects Kenneth,

I believe the point of your thread was that you moved cold tubing, it cracked, and sent 90% methanol cascading all over your system? This is two days after you assured us - with the certainty that only someone with 10 years of lab experience could exhibit - that there is no difference between ClearFLEX and Tygon tubing. ;)

You also brought up methanol, not me. If you think it is childish to point out grave mistatements on safety, then I am guilty. Funny thing, but in America, we encourage debate; we don't disparage it. Debate is not inherently incivil or a flame. :argue:

This tube-cracking scenario is exactly why I would be concerned about using methanol, and I think the safety/toxicity of fluids is on-point in a "my tubing exploded" thread. And quite frankly, I don't care if it is off-topic. I'd rather be off-topic and warn someone of a danger, than remain quiet due to some nettiquette guideline, only to read about some guy who went blind trying to follow misinformed advice on this board.

FWIW,

JD

[TheDude]

Debate is not inherently incivil or a flame.

My point exactly...debate is fine....flaming will get you banned.
Please make your point without flaming.

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Originally posted by uclajd
Kenneth,

I believe the point of your thread was that you moved cold tubing, it cracked, and sent 90% methanol cascading all over your system? This is two days after you assured us - with the certainty that only someone with 10 years of lab experience could exhibit - that there is no difference between ClearFLEX and Tygon tubing. ;)
It didn't crack. what makes you think there has been a crack? Does it have to crack to get leaked???

no.. you are the one just found out about the ClearFLEX and Tygon in your thread asking about these few days ago Remember??? Now you know something about it and get all excited and gain confidence like this?????



You also brought up methanol, not me.
No, it's the other(s) who brought up with this liquid type debate. It is YOU who brought up and stated spamming.



If you think it is childish to point out grave mistatements on safety, then I am guilty. Funny thing, but in America, we encourage debate; we don't disparage it. Debate is not inherently incivil or a flame. :argue:
no..... you have completely crapped his thread slamming down on methanols. You started the sh#t.



This tube-cracking scenario is exactly why I would be concerned about using methanol,
It's not because of using methanol, boy. How many times do I need to get this though your head?

Using methanol is not why his tubing caused air gap to leak it(once again, not a crack). Try using regular water or any other liquid. With the type of tubing he's got, it will still cause to leak if he moves it around. That's NORMAL! All he has to do is don't move the tubing and that will be FINE. However his option is to get a better type of tubing to help reducing the leak. This is his option and it is UPTO him, none of your damn stinkin ass business.

This is also why I've been saying you are slamming on the methanol. :mad:



and I think the safety/toxicity of fluids is on-point in a "my tubing exploded" thread.
Now you are getting obessessed. You are out of the line. Explode?? Why not a nuclear bomb?




And quite frankly, I don't care if it is off-topic. I'd rather be off-topic and warn someone of a danger, than remain quiet due to some nettiquette guideline, only to read about some guy who went blind trying to follow misinformed advice on this board.

FWIW,

JD
You don't care because you are flamming spamming troll. Of course you wouldn't care. Makes sense to me. ;)



And with that, I am out. Happy (and safe) cooling
and you post it again??? You replied to Kenneth. Have you changed your mind?

You don't need to spam the fraud information anymore. Enough is enough.

[TheDude]

You don't care because you are flamming spamming troll.

IamAnoobieCheez....you are walking a very thin line with this name calling. Calling him a flaming spamming troll is FLAMING.
I warned that flaming will get people banned in here in my last post. I guess you did not take it seriously.
I have better things to do than babysit this thread.
STOP THE FLAMING NOW....EVERYONE....IS THAT CLEAR?:mad:

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Originally posted by TheDude
IamAnoobieCheez....you are walking a very thin line with this name calling. Calling him a flaming spamming troll is FLAMING.
I warned that flaming will get people banned in here in my last post. I guess you did not take it seriously.
I have better things to do than babysit this thread.
STOP THE FLAMING NOW....EVERYONE....IS THAT CLEAR?:mad:
and he name calling me makes it okay?? Who name called it first?


Originally posted by uclajd
Methanol is alcohol you ninconpoop.

Listen, I'm done name calling and not going to do it anymore. But just letting you know who name called it first. He called me ninconpoop. :mad:

[TheDude]

Who name called it first?

He did and was warned not to do it again as were you.
More important than who was first is who will be last?

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Kenneth's thread topic is about don't move cold tubing. Look what these Isopropyl fanatics have done.. Totally destroyed his thread. Why did they have to argue about the types of liquid? Liquid does not make the tubing crack in Kenneth's situation. Read again what I've said about leaking, not cracking.


and why does someone has to deliberately stick his nose on the methanol(or any other type of alcohol for that matter) and suck up all that smell? Saying that is really necessary??????? WHy do you have to inhale it for.. I just don't get it. Trust me... You DON'T have to deliberately inhale it. You should do the same for the Isopropyl alcohol anyway when handling large volume.

[charlie]

To return back to the point...what is a more appropriate coolant liquid, isopropyl alcohol OR methanol?
C

[Keeper]

I got the 91% Isopropyl I use at Sam's for $1.80 for a ½ gallon. They sell it two 32oz bottles packaged together. The 70% is considerably cheaper.

[charlie]

agreed

[IamAnoobieCheez]

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/images/smilies/SNEMOTICON13.gif
charlie

[KennethChong]

Well just about everything i wanted to say has been said by IamAnoobieCheez so im not going to say anything else, besides this.

I was using tygon, thats what sells at the local fish shop, i use it so i dont have to wait on an order. Ive used both tygon and some clearflex before, ive noticed no diffrence. Both WILL crack or split at lower temps.

[afireinside]

Both WILL crack or split at lower temps.

So what do you use than?

[KennethChong]

Im still using my tygon, but you just have to be carfull not to bump it, im just stearing clear right now. I can still move the tubing thats not next to the block, i just had a mishap and hit the lower part of the tubing, near the connection to the waterblock, that with the preasure of the clamp probly didnt help. Just have to remember to drain the lines before you start moving it around.

[afireinside]

How do you drain the lines? Can't vaccume it out because its flammable and you can't blow it out because its toxic.

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Kenneth, http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/images/smilies/hug.gif :)





Originally posted by afireinside
How do you drain the lines? Can't vaccume it out because its flammable and you can't blow it out because its toxic.
LOL! :D



draining method varies depending on the individual's setup.

mine gets drained in less than 10 sec.

gets filled & bleed in 2 sec. it is so fast that I can start my machine right at 2.79ghz with an empty tubing and blocks.

[afireinside]

Can I see a picture?

[IamAnoobieCheez]

no i don't have pics.

[afireinside]

Hum damn. Do you use some special contraption to empty it :D

[charlie]

OK,
HERE'S THE DEAL!!! THE REAL DEAL, NOT THE T-A-L-K!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
noobiecheez, uclajd, keeper, me and others are ALL correct!!!!!!
Methanol has a LOWER HMIS Health Danger rating than Ethanol or Isopropanol. H-O-W-E-V-E-R...noobiecheez, the alcohol referred to in these posts is 70%-91% "Isopropanol" a.k.a. "rubbing alcohol" which has a HMIS Health Danger rating of 1...minimal danger :D
It's ALL about the water...the water added to isopropyl alcohol changes the chemical properties SO drastically, it becomes a "near" harmless product unless someone does something STUPID, like drink a quart, swim in it for a few days, atomize it next to your BBQ..you know. Bottom line...rubbing alcohol is NOT ethanol. Now excuse me, I have to go apply rubbing alcohol to my wounds from LMAO.
C

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Originally posted by charlie
OK,
HERE'S THE DEAL!!! THE REAL DEAL, NOT THE T-A-L-K!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
noobiecheez, uclajd, keeper, me and others are ALL correct!!!!!!
Methanol has a LOWER HMIS Health Danger rating than Ethanol or Isopropanol. H-O-W-E-V-E-R...noobiecheez, the alcohol referred to in these posts is 70%-91% "Isopropanol" a.k.a. "rubbing alcohol" which has a HMIS Health Danger rating of 1...minimal danger :D
It's ALL about the water...the water added to isopropyl alcohol changes the chemical properties SO drastically, it becomes a "near" harmless product unless someone does something STUPID, like drink a quart, swim in it for a few days, atomize it next to your BBQ..you know. Bottom line...rubbing alcohol is NOT ethanol. Now excuse me, I have to go apply rubbing alcohol to my wounds from LMAO.
C Don't get too horny with the Iso alcohol..

Just a suggestion... not an attack.




yes, many of the rubbing alcohol has 70% or higher isopropyl in it. It is still dangerous, explosion.. B O O M..

You want to compare a methanol and Isopropyl, compare it fairly i.e. pure methanol vs. pure alcohol. mixture methanol vs. mixture alcohol. How many people do actually run pure methanol? .. not many. How many people actually run pure Iso?.. not many. Like you have said, as I knew before, methanol has a lower danger rating overall. It also depends how you use it, what volume you apply, what mixture you put, etc. and why would anybody wanna drink a methanol?.. no.



"rubbing alcohol" which has a HMIS Health Danger rating of 1...minimal danger :D
Why only the health part?

You forgot the Flammability rating of 4... maximal danger. :D

Isopropyl is still dangerous in health and is in the hazard class of Flammable liquid.

[Niven]

It would perhaps be better to discuss safe handling of these obviously dangerous products, it might be better for all to share tips rather than discussing which is more dangerous.

I for one would like to know what temps each of them achieves and how best to use them safely.

[IamAnoobieCheez]

When handling such liquid i.e. Isopropyl alcohol, handling with care is recommended due to toxicity and flammability.



http://portfolio.iu.edu/skrska/Isopropyl_safety_requirements_2.jpg

[TheDude]

Originally posted by Niven
It would perhaps be better to discuss safe handling of these obviously dangerous products, it might be better for all to share tips rather than discussing which is more dangerous.

I for one would like to know what temps each of them achieves and how best to use them safely.



Very well said Niven!

:toast: :D

[charlie]

Pretty difficult to apply rubbing alcohol when wearing full body suit, lol.
And btw, flammability on 70% iso is only "3"
Now ignore the "pure" iso vs. meth argument! We're taliking about rubbing alcohol for gosh sake!
C

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Originally posted by charlie
Pretty difficult to apply rubbing alcohol when wearing full body suit, lol.
And btw, flammability on 70% iso is only "3"
Now ignore the "pure" iso vs. meth argument! We're taliking about rubbing alcohol for gosh sake!
C
Then why do some of you guys make a big deal on the danger of the methanol so damn much then eh? They were refering to concentrate/ pure methanol how dangerous it is. Then don't pick on methanol and everybody is cool and get to go home no? ;)

and no.. "3" is not "only". That's bad enough, sorry.

Oh and wasn't the other guy using 91% Iso??


and also if you are keep diluting that thing, what's the point of being effective anti-freeze in such low operting liquid temps?? It would be come worthless.

[Penti]

Well all alcohol except glycerol is toxic and glycerol has a freezing point of 18°C so its pretty useless. Glycol, methanol, Isopropyl and ethanol is all toxic, but you methanol is much more danger then ethanol and isopropanol. Its dangerous to get isopropanol or methanol on the skin, specialy methanol. Etanol isn't dangerous to get on the skin. Methanol is the most dangerous one, its toxic to breath in, toxic to get on your skin. It's much harder to handle then ethanol, sure both are very flameable but that is not the biggest concern and it cant be so flameable and the flameable isue have already been debated.
It sounds to me like we need a smaller lab equipment and protecton to be safe with methanol. But ethanol we only have to think about the fire isue witch probably isnt an isue when its mixed with water (like 40:60)

But you can handle it the right and safe way who the h*** cares if your useing isopropanol, methanol or ethanol. This thread is just an isopropanol VS methanol thread. Maybe some of the more knowing guys can try answer the guy that did ask how to handle the stuff safetly.

[charlie]

I think anyone using PURE methanol or Isopropanol OR Ethanol are out of their freekin' mind in a closed loop system...
If someone wants to put 2 or 3 oz. of ethanol in a Dry Ice container for 30 minutes with his windows open and a fan turned on, I doubt it's harmful!
For all psycho's, 1 word
3M fluorinert

or
3M Nevco

Non toxic and pourable to -120C

BTW, water mixed with alcohol actually LOWERS the freezing point I believe.(to a point)

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Originally posted by Penti
Well all alcohol except glycerol is toxic and glycerol has a freezing point of 18°C so its pretty useless. Glycol, methanol, Isopropyl and ethanol is all toxic, but you methanol is much more danger then ethanol and isopropanol. Its dangerous to get isopropanol or methanol on the skin, specialy methanol. Etanol isn't dangerous to get on the skin. Methanol is the most dangerous one, its toxic to breath in, toxic to get on your skin. It's much harder to handle then ethanol, sure both are very flameable but that is not the biggest concern and it cant be so flameable and the flameable isue have already been debated.
It sounds to me like we need a smaller lab equipment and protecton to be safe with methanol. But ethanol we only have to think about the fire isue witch probably isnt an isue when its mixed with water (like 40:60)
Stop, Drop what you are doing, Step back, and read where few of us already mentioned that the Isopropyl is more dangerous than methanol also due to flammability. You don't need drag on this. These things have already been mentioned by me and few others.

and why the hell would you wanna use 40:60 Iso mixture? That becomes pointless when doing such low temps. Have you actually done waterchilling much? and have you actually done 40:60 Iso and maintain well below sub zero temps without turning solid? You keep mixing around, you gonna get NOTHING. ;)






This thread is just an isopropanol VS methanol thread.
Where have you been?

Read Kenneth's Topic Thread. What does it say in there??

[KennethChong]

Originally posted by afireinside
How do you drain the lines? Can't vaccume it out because its flammable and you can't blow it out because its toxic.

huh? All i ment by that is that my return tube isnt attatched, it just goes into a hole on the top of my res a little below the water line, then i just lift it up to drain all the water out of my lines.

[[SLC]Tachyon]

Originally posted by charlie
Pretty difficult to apply rubbing alcohol when wearing full body suit, lol.
And btw, flammability on 70% iso is only "3"
Now ignore the "pure" iso vs. meth argument! We're taliking about rubbing alcohol for gosh sake!
C

Hey Charlie, where are you located?

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Originally posted by charlie
I think anyone using PURE methanol or Isopropanol OR Ethanol are out of their freekin' mind in a closed loop system...
You would be stupid to do it that way. Of course you should not.

And wronggggg...... again. Oh yes you would need to use 99% pure alcohol for high class supercooling methods such as Dry Ice cooling either on direct CPU cooling or indirect CPU cooling such as running a large freezer res source with dry ice and pure alcohol contained. That's an open loop my friend. ;) You would have to be [h]ard enough to do it. I don't stop you. I don't have a problem with that. ;)




If someone wants to put 2 or 3 oz. of ethanol in a Dry Ice container for 30 minutes with his windows open and a fan turned on, I doubt it's harmful!
For all psycho's, 1 word
3M fluorinert

or
3M Nevco

Non toxic and pourable to -120C
1 word, TOO damn expensive. How are you gonna do large volume of liquid with that?? Your method is only good for a very temporary run with tinnnnnnie winnnnnie bitty amount of liquid. Sure would be not expensive then. Heh... Doh! ;)





BTW, water mixed with alcohol actually LOWERS the freezing point I believe.(to a point)
Give me proof. You believe... ok, is that a proof?

This is even more non-sense I'm hearing. The more you speak, the worse it gets. Be more careful before you speak.

[Illicit Tweakin]

Originally posted by charlie
And about Calcium Hydroxide mixed with water...this "chalk" water has a uber-low freezing point?????

Sorry I meant Calcium Chloride :doh:

[Niven]

What results do you guys get using these mixtures?

[Illicit Tweakin]

1 word, TOO damn expensive. How are you gonna do large volume of liquid with that?? Your method is only good for a very temporary run with tinnnnnnie winnnnnie bitty amount of liquid. Sure would be not expensive then. Heh... Doh! ;)




You can buy recycled stuff, it's way cheaper. It's still kinda expensive.

www.tmcindustries.com/reclaim.htm

[charlie]

BTW,
For the "brain surgeon's" out there, I can CONFIRM that 70%isopropyl alcohol does NOT freeze with a few lumps of dry ice boiling away! And noobiecheez, look at the MSDS under physical properties...70% Iso has a lower F.P. than pure methanol...wanna' bet? :D
C

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Originally posted by charlie
BTW,
For the "brain surgeon's" out there, I can CONFIRM that 70%isopropyl alcohol does NOT freeze with a few lumps of dry ice boiling away! Ans noobiecheez, look at the MSDS under physical properties...70% Iso has a lower F.P. than pure methanol...wanna' bet? :D
C

what volume of isopropyl alcohol with two lumps of dry ice are we talking about here?


and when did I say Iso has lower freezing point than the methanol? I don't think I have mentioned that anywhere in this entire thread. ;) I didn't want to get into the detail numbers..



oh yeah another thing, why don't you just say "rubbing alcohol"?
Contained 70% of Isopropyl is common for a rubbing alcohol. You seem to make a big deal on 70% iso... like this is something brand new talk, LOL....... Did you just find that out recently??? Please... stop it. Don't make me laugh please. :ROTF:

[charlie]

IANC,
I've been trying to get about 1 ounce of iso to freeze as I bought 1 pound of dry ice...I keep putting pieces in ...and it just keeps boiling! When I experimented with antifreeze/water it turned into green slush...
In your previous post you disagreed with me about how adding water (within reason) raised the f.p. of alcohol! Haven't you ever heard the old gearheads say don't use pure antifreeze in your car? It needs water to work properly.
Just to change the topic :D , what's the "operating" fluid in your 40g res?
C

[KennethChong]

yea hes right about adding water, well to a limit of cource, here are some stats for yall,
http://www.bandj.com/BJProduct/SolProperties/Freezing.html

adding some water will work, but theres also something else you have to take into consideration, witch is viscosity. Most people that use isopropyl find that with about -30c temps, sometimes higher, it starts to get pretty slushy.

[charlie]

OK,
IANC, I'm tired from this thread. Obviously 70% Isopropanol (rubbing alcohol) is quite happy at -80C (as witnessed by ME as I type this)
Now I will be careful and HOPE the thermostat in my office doesn't kick on and make my room ignite and explode with the force of 100 Daisy Cutters (BLU-82)
LOL, getting a lecture from a guy with 13K 3dmk points hehehehe...
C:explode:

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Originally posted by charlie
IANC,
I've been trying to get about 1 ounce of iso to freeze as I bought 1 pound of dry ice...I keep putting pieces in ...and it just keeps boiling! When I experimented with antifreeze/water it turned into green slush...
When did you test that out?

Did you really apply 1 ounce of iso on a pound of dry ice? Are you fooling me??



In your previous post you disagreed with me about how adding water (within reason) raised the f.p. of alcohol! Haven't you ever heard the old gearheads say don't use pure antifreeze in your car? It needs water to work properly.Are we talking about a car or computer?

Are we talking about a freezing point or boiling point?


Get it though your head straight before you type. LOL






and don't forget to answer my question and what I told you to do.

[KennethChong]

Originally posted by charlie
OK,
IANC, I'm tired from this thread. Obviously 70% Isopropanol (rubbing alcohol) is quite happy at -80C (as witnessed by ME as I type this)
Now I will be careful and HOPE the thermostat in my office doesn't kick on and make my room ignite and explode with the force of 100 Daisy Cutters (BLU-82)
LOL, getting a lecture from a guy with 13K 3dmk points hehehehe...
C

from what ive heard, keeper and sevral others have talked about how it got slushy at -30 or so, thats why i have never used it.

and man, i thought there was guna be a intelegent argument for a sec there, then you start poking fun at people, that last comment was uncalled for. how about we all stop the name calling?

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Originally posted by charlie
LOL, getting a lecture from a guy with 13K 3dmk points hehehehe...
C
actually.. 13,665, on a Gf3 ti200. next project is going to be at 14k+. ;) Now you're picking on me about my 3dmark and use sarcasm eh? lol....

[charlie]

Sorry, couldn't resist. I have 1 or 2 ounces of Rubbing alc in my LN2 CPU container and have been tossing in marble sized pieces of dry ice every few minutes. I try to keep the DI sticking out above the surface iceberg style...every once in a while it spits a drop of alc out the top...but you can hear and see it bubbling away nicely. I don't know how well it would PUMP but it cools a copper tube quite nicely
I just wish I had a thermistor to attach to the bottom!
C

[Keeper]

My 70% Iso never got cold enough to slush, it was the methanol based wiper fluid that started to slush on me at -28C. It was rated at -36C but started to slush at -28C. That is why I started looking at other fluids.

[Penti]

Originally posted by IamAnoobieCheez

Stop, Drop what you are doing, Step back, and read where few of us already mentioned that the Isopropyl is more dangerous than methanol also due to flammability. You don't need drag on this. These things have already been mentioned by me and few others.

and why the hell would you wanna use 40:60 Iso mixture? That becomes pointless when doing such low temps. Have you actually done waterchilling much? and have you actually done 40:60 Iso and maintain well below sub zero temps without turning solid? You keep mixing around, you gonna get NOTHING. ;)



I did say that flammablity has already been debated! and i didnt say anything about an 40:60 mixture with isopropyl alcohol. Stop twisting it around and only your avatar are saying that you will say methanol no mather what the facts are. If your saying that then come with some facts that show us that. Well some people may need something better then glycol but not an 99% iso propanol, methanol and so on.

I actually did talk about ethanol but u didnt bother reading that.
40:60 mix with water and ethanol should be enough in many cases.
If not then 99% Ethanol is better then iso propyl and methanol.


Originally posted by IamAnoobieCheez

Where have you been?

Read Kenneth's Topic Thread. What does it say in there??
Well what liquide you use in you chiller doesn't have anything to do with the threads name nothing at all.

[KennethChong]

Originally posted by Keeper
My 70% Iso never got cold enough to slush, it was the methanol based wiper fluid that started to slush on me at -28C. It was rated at -36C but started to slush at -28C. That is why I started looking at other fluids.

ahh ok, guess i got you mixed up with someone, sorry.

[charlie]

Still frosty....
there's a part of me, oh about .0000000000001% that wants to stick my tongue on the copper tube....strange.
C

[KennethChong]

lol, dont do it!! very painful, not that i would know...:D

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Thank you for the link, Kenneth..

Here's some numbers for ya.



http://portfolio.iu.edu/skrska/Freezing_Point.png

[FragMagnet]

Just looking at a 500ml bottle of ISO that I use to clean off thermal grease, brand name is Equate and it was bought at a grocery store.
On the front:
"isopropyl 99%
isopropyl alchohol USP"
Topical antiseptic
for the temporary relief of bruises, sprains, and muscle aches"

Now the safety label
For external use only, keep out of reach of children
Topical antiseptic for for temporary relief of bruises, sprains, and muscle aches.
Directions: Use full strength rubbing in only as needed. Also prevents bed sores; frequent applications tend to harden skin and thus prevent irritation.
Active Ingredient: 99% Isopropyl Alchohol
they obviously mention that you shouldn't drink it as well.
As for the warnings: (both printed and symbols)
-Poison
-Flammable
that's it
no mention of explosions, nor does it carry the explosion symbol.

[charlie]

IANC,
I'll repeat it again, when you add a bit of water to ISO, the FP drops below-90C
So guys, want me to go dump it in hte sink to see how viscious it is?
C

[Keeper]

I bet it will pour Charlie.

[KennethChong]

yup

[charlie]

OK,
I had several chips of DI in there, and it had almost stopped boiling, leading me to the conclusion that the ISO had reached a temp near the DI, maybe -70C...again wish I had a thermistor to measure copper.
I poured it in the sink, and the moment the alcohol hit the porcelain it started to boil...cool! But just for a second. How viscious? Hmm....I wanna say like "hot" olive oil...not quite waterlike but certainly not like olive oil from the pantry, either.
Any linkies for cheap thermistors?
Oh...all this reminds me, I'm picking up a 2.8C from Fry's tommorrow and putting it under the "copper god" :D
Stay tuned
C

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Viscosity

Methanol vs. Isopropyl


LOL

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Scroll..... down for the Isopropyl's viscosity...

[IamAnoobieCheez]

charlie, is that the dry ice cooling you're doing right now? How much of water did you add to lower the freezing point from your 70% Isopropyl alcohol in your copper cup noodle bowl? You don't have to give me detail number/calcuation here, just a rough figure is fine... assuming your cooling power is enough to maintain low temp.

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Flash Point boys


Read the text noted in the top part of the page for details.

[Keeper]

Now all we need is know is which one performs best in thermal conductivity. It would seem that would be the only thing at this point that could tip the scales in favor of Methanol.

[charlie]

Yeah, that's useful :rolleyes:
I'll remember that when I put my rubbing alcohol into a closed container and light it with a match, lol
Remember, IANC...rubbing alc is 70% ISO, and I'm sure THIS affects f.p., etc.
No I didn't add ANY water...my bottle of alc is Kroger 70% Isopropyl Alc. Fortunately my alc was -60C or so...not within it's f.p. yeah? OTOH, I'm not quite sure if 3 oz. of Rubbing Alc COULD do much explosive-wise.
Anyway, I forgot...whats this thread about? Lol...
Ahhh yes, don't move your hoses when cooling with Alcohol and their cold...and don't smoke cigarettes, light fireworks or roast weiners when overclocking...right?
Other than that I think just about everything has been said...
alcohol's don't freeze in the presence of dry ice, Keeper couldn't light his ISO with a match, we're ALL still here and it's all good.
Anyone who uses Flammable substances to cool electronics is a bit "off" and caution is certainly advised. Now go and grab a cold one!
:toast:
Keeper, good question...hmmmm maybe one of the thermal guru's will drop in and tell us...I do know that Macci uses Ethanol with his DI!
C

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Originally posted by charlie
Remember, IANC...rubbing alc is 70% ISO, and I'm sure THIS affects f.p., etc.
I knew about the rubbing alcohol has 70% Iso. you don't have to tell me. ;)



No I didn't add ANY water...my bottle of alc is Kroger 70% Isopropyl Alc. Fortunately my alc was -60C or so...not within it's f.p. yeah?
Didn't you say that adding some water to the rubbing alcohol will lower the freezing point? You've said it at least two times. How much of water does it need to be added to the rubbing alcohol to lower the freezing temperature further and by how much. That is what I want to know. Not that I am trying to stomp you, but for my information about the rubbing alcohol. I am still waiting for your answer about this.





OTOH, I'm not quite sure if 3 oz. of Rubbing Alc COULD do much explosive-wise.
yeah, but how can you run 3 oz. of Iso in your watercooling system? If you're doing the high level waterchilling, 3 oz of iso will not be able to fill your tubes and will cause severe bubbles and your cpu will not even run. That is what I am talking about. If you are talking about a small copper cup noodle on a CPU core, that's a little different story.. but still, 3 oz isn't that much to last any descent time.



Anyway, I forgot...whats this thread about? Lol...
Ahhh yes, don't move your hoses when cooling with Alcohol and their cold...and don't smoke cigarettes, light fireworks or roast weiners when overclocking...right?
yeah, exactly...

[IamAnoobieCheez]

so... have you done a lot of dry ice and ln2 cooling before?

I'm still waiting for your answer in the previous posts. I need to know.



As for calling the Copper bowl "Copper cup noodle bowl" is just my way of speaking. It is my style and like it.. not to offend you. I always say that when I talk to anybody. Just to let you know.

[charlie]

IANC,
As you know, Rubbing Alc ALREADY has the water in it...what I meant was if you take 100% Isopropanol, it will have a Freezing point of X...add 5% or 10% water (rubbing alc) and the FP is lower. Pure ALC freezes at a higher temp than when you add water (the mfg that is)
As for experience, I used DI once before with windshield wiper fluid and it didn't work worth a cr*p. I haven't tried LN2...yet. The methanol containing wiper stuff got slushy and when the liquid slushes up, the conductivity goes to sh*t...you could see the ice on the sides of tube start to melt when the cpu was under load and the coolant froze...with the ISO, this wouldn't happen. As I said before, the DI nearly stopped boiling which means the tube was "near" -70C
And yeah I would only use a few OZ. at a time...I have NO idea how to fill a system with it??
And NO, I said adding water to ISOpropanol lowers fp, of course adding water to RA would raise fp.
C

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Originally posted by charlie
IANC,
As you know, Rubbing Alc ALREADY has the water in it...what I meant was if you take 100% Isopropanol, it will have a Freezing point of X...add 5% or 10% water (rubbing alc) and the FP is lower. Pure ALC freezes at a higher temp than when you add water (the mfg that is)
You said adding water to the 70% Isopropyl alcohol(aka rubbing alcohol) will lower the freezing temperature. Don't twist the words around to try to get me confused.

Isn't Isopropanol similar to Isopropyl alcohol? Aren't they related?? Same thing?? Why keep switching liquid terms around?

If pure alcohol(i suppose you are talking 99% Iso)'s freezing temperature is higher than a added water of Iso alcohol(aka Rubbing alcohol), what is the freezing temperature of Rubbing alcohol?? How much colder temperature can it maintain liquid state than the pure alcohol? You are telling me that a rubbing alcohol has lower freezing point than the pure alcohol here. So, by how much? What is the freezing temperature of rubbing alcohol. Where is the spec data sheet/ online resources??




As for the methanol, of course you would have poor freezing temperature if you use windshield wipers fluid. It has a lot of mixtures in it and diluted therefore you would get much higher FP.

[ellsworth]

no offense to anyone, but give it up guys, this argument is futile...no matter how much is said you guys will never agree on anything. btw cheez your avatar still cracks me up, i was almost in tears when i first saw it :D.

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Originally posted by ellsworth
no offense to anyone, but give it up guys, this argument is futile...no matter how much is said you guys will never agree on anything.
no.. charlie wants to play so I'm just playing with him. it's okay. I have him under control.. :) but there is some important thing I need to discuss with him. I need to hear what he is gonna say about the question I'm asking... because I find this bull sh#t. what.. rubbing alcohol has lower freezing point than the pure alcohol?? yeah righttttttt.


btw cheez your avatar still cracks me up, i was almost in tears when i first saw it :D
:D Thanks. :D

[Penti]

Originally posted by IamAnoobieCheez

Isn't Isopropanol similar to Isopropyl alcohol? Aren't they related?? Same thing?? Why keep switching liquid terms around?
[/B]

Its the same alcohol!

[JeffPH]

hehehe guys i had fun reading this thread :)

can u guys take a pic of your chilled water setup so i could learn more ty :)

[Keeper]

Here is a link to mine,

http://www.nerdsforjesus.org/coolerpage.html

[KennethChong]

looks nice keeper. Mines nothing to look at right now, still designing things around, right now im trying out my air tight case idea, i HATE insulating and with -60 temps it becomes a big pain, hopefully i can get this worked out.

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Originally posted by Penti
Its the same alcohol!
I think you misunderstood the meaning when i asked him about it. I was questioning him, not that I didn't know. Pay more attention before you type garbage. What's with the exclamation mark???


Plus, if you wanted to respond to this, why didn't you answer the rest of the question I was asking charlie? Why so quiet about it? You don't know the answer? That's the only thing you could quote me?? :rolleyes:

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Originally posted by Penti
I did say that flammablity has already been debated!
So why repeat?? Take up extra bandwidth?



and i didnt say anything about an 40:60 mixture with isopropyl alcohol. Stop twisting it around and only your avatar are saying that you will say methanol no mather what the facts are.
Looks like You are the one twisting it around and being so one sided. You will protect Iso alcohol no matter what. Why did you mention 40:60 then? eh? You are the one is trying to twisting words around and make it more confusing it. Don't type sh#t if not necessary.



Well some people may need something better then glycol but not an 99% iso propanol, methanol and so on.
Read carefully before you type this garbage. When I said about using 99% iso alcohol I was saying for those who are in the extreme class of cooling such as dry ice cooling, not for normal waterchilling use. That's what we were saying. Pay more attention before you let it out. ;)



I actually did talk about ethanol but u didnt bother reading that.
40:60 mix with water and ethanol should be enough in many cases.
If not then 99% Ethanol is better then iso propyl and methanol.
charlie states that the freezing point on the 70% Iso alcohol(rubbing alcohol) is lower than the 99% pure alcohol. Why don't you tell me the answer on this then? eh? How much of water does it need to be added to the rubbing alcohol to make the freezing point lower?




Well what liquide you use in you chiller doesn't have anything to do with the threads name nothing at all.
What is this sh#t?

What's my waterchilling rig spec got to do with Kenneth's thread topic? I can't even come in here??? What you are saying here doesn't make any sense at all. Are you running out of words? Is that why you are telling me these weird things? You are the one said stick your nose in the methanol container and breath all in deliberately and you tell me this sh#t?



YOU and ulcajd are the ones started this flamming festival in Kenneth's thread, Remember??? YOU messed it up. YOu started the alcohol debate. YOU are the one was talking sh#t that is irrelevant to Kenneth's thread topic. YOU are the one changed the subject and crapped his thread. Nice going.




oh yeah, and be sure to answer my question in my previous post. Waiting for your answer.

[Keeper]

Thanks Kenneth, I have it in my office at work (no smoking), so I wanted it to look presentable. I have a pelt I plan on testing on it in September.

[charlie]

Isopropanol is not rubbing alcohol...
Isopropanol is the main ingredient in rubbing alcohol, along with water. Rubbing alcohol always has water. Isopropanol does not.
Now stop inciting me, Cheez. ;) Look on the net for physical properties of Ethanol vs. Rubbing Alcohol and you'll find what you desire. L8
C

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Originally posted by charlie
Isopropanol is not rubbing alcohol...
Ouch..
Originally posted by Penti
Its the same alcohol!



Isopropanol is the main ingredient in rubbing alcohol, along with water. Rubbing alcohol always has water. Isopropanol does not.
Like I've said before, it is still related with Iso alcohol (aka rubbing alcohol (aka 70% Isopropyl)) ;)



Now stop inciting me, Cheez. ;) Look on the net for physical properties of Ethanol vs. Rubbing Alcohol and you'll find what you desire. L8
C
Inciting? no.

Once again, you responded to the easy one. Why did you leave out all the rest? Why aren't you answering my question?

You have not answered my question. Why are you hiding it? Answer my question about the freezing point temperature. I asked at least 3 times or so. It should be clear by now what I've been asking you. I'm waiting for your answer. ;)

[charlie]

It's not my desire to further embarass NoobieCheez so I will make this my FINAL (I promise) post on this thread:
ENJOY!

[Master Chief]

OUCH! And he pulls the sharpie pen out of his sock as the defensive back lies on the field writhing in pain.
I think the clock just ran out in the 4th quarter, cheeze and yer' down a touch!
:owned:

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Originally posted by charlie
It's not my desire to further embarass NoobieCheez so I will make this my FINAL (I promise) post on this thread:
ENJOY!
On that MSDS, is that a 99% Isopropyl alcohol or Rubbing alcohol? It didn't say what product liquid. Which one is it?
I know the spec on the bottom you pasted is for the pure isopropyl alcohol which is -88c FP.

I need various sources and/or screenshots that show which product has FP of X and which product has FP of Y. Your pic doesn't show which product.

Oh and no, I'm not being embarassed. Why should I be? Asking questions about the alcohol types makes me embarassing?.. If you are deliberately trying to embarasse me, then you are personally attacking me. Which violates the rule here. ;)




and of course, -89c is colder than -88c, don't be playing games with me. How could -89c be warmer than -88c? Didn't I tell you? Not to type on too much? More you type, more you could make mistake?

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Originally posted by Master Chief
OUCH! And he pulls the sharpie pen out of his sock as the defensive back lies on the field writhing in pain.
I think the clock just ran out in the 4th quarter, cheeze and yer' down a touch!
:owned:
I was taking a shower. Do you ever go take a sh#t, eat, take care of something else, take shower, etc? Do you really stick your face on the monitor non-stop 24/7?


;)

[IamAnoobieCheez]

I wait for your answer, charlie.. ;)

and don't go run away from me. I'm not done yet. You posted that pic without the labeling is incomplete. Looks like you just posed that pic and make it look like that is the answer. Not to me it ain't. ;) what makes you think you can get away with this? C'mon charlie... come back here. No need to be shy.

[Keeper]

Give it up Cheeze; you have provided more evidence to prove your bias is without merit, than I have ever seen in an argument.

I can admit I was biased by exercise of use, so I do appreciate all this evidence you have provided to assure me I made the right choice.

But since the argument seems to continue, the thermal conductivity should be the obvious direction it should take.

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Your excuse don't work here. I'm afraid, I won. ;) What makes you think you could get away with that.. Not enough data you provided im sorry to say. It's incomplete.


You also have not provided anything about rubbing alcohol beating methanol in FP, it is already hopeless to go with the Iso. Your backup is very poor.


Methanol wins overall. Methanol gets the award.

I would take Methanol over Isopropyl any day.


The decision has been made for continue using methanol.


;)

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Originally posted by Keeper
Give it up Cheeze; you have provided more evidence to prove your bias is without merit, than I have ever seen in an argument.

I can admit I was biased by exercise of use, so I do appreciate all this evidence you have provided to assure me I made the right choice.

But since the argument seems to continue, the thermal conductivity should be the obvious direction it should take.

Give it up?? are you crazy. I have already made my decision and what is better. Too late bro. Read the last two posts in this page.



and no... I was about to end it last night but.. charlie wanted to play.. wanted to continue on. Look at his post the way said. -->>
Originally posted by charlie
Yeah, that's useful :rolleyes:
I'll remember that when I put my rubbing alcohol into a closed container and light it with a match, lol
Remember, IANC...rubbing alc is 70% ISO, and I'm sure THIS affects f.p., etc.
No I didn't add ANY water...my bottle of alc is Kroger 70% Isopropyl Alc. Fortunately my alc was -60C or so...not within it's f.p. yeah? OTOH, I'm not quite sure if 3 oz. of Rubbing Alc COULD do much explosive-wise.


;) ;)

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Don't forget.... Methanol all the way. ;)



oh btw, Keeper, you said you are running -30~ -35C liquid temperature didn't you.. You are using a xp1700 jiuhb. I've been wondering(in a suspicious way) why you are getting such high CPU temperature and no so great of overclock with that Iso powered cooling. If you are really feeding -30C or so liquid temperature though your cpu block, you should be getting far higher overclock and lower cpu temperature. I remember what temperature you posted at the TEC Cooling section in your thread. Something doesn't add up here. Also, having some trouble with the thermal transference?(not conductivity, use a better term such as heat transference). I saw your screenshots and running sandra@ 2.61ghz??? you've got to be joking. I used to run a couple year old tbred chip aiucb stepping at 2.65ghz with a 1C liquid temperature few years ago. Something tells me you are having cooling problem.


It would be some serous shame if you can't even beat my overclock(my current sig) with your pelt combined for september. Ouch..

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Keeper, hit "refresh" so you can read my updated message right above. Don't forget.... Methanol all the way. ;)

[Penti]

Well there is no point to countinue really but i will answer this and then hoppfully leave YOU and Charlie alone to discuss this, you too can keep it on forever if you like.




Originally posted by IamAnoobieCheez
I think you misunderstood the meaning when i asked him about it. I was questioning him, not that I didn't know. Pay more attention before you type garbage. What's with the exclamation mark???


Plus, if you wanted to respond to this, why didn't you answer the rest of the question I was asking charlie? Why so quiet about it? You don't know the answer? That's the only thing you could quote me?? :rolleyes:

No you asked if isopropyl alcohol was a differnece substance then isopropanol! I answer that question. I dont realy care or have energy to care about your dicussion with charlie.


Originally posted by IamAnoobieCheez

So why repeat?? Take up extra bandwidth?



I didn't.


Originally posted by IamAnoobieCheez
Looks like You are the one twisting it around and being so one sided. You will protect Iso alcohol no matter what. Why did you mention 40:60 then? eh? You are the one is trying to twisting words around and make it more confusing it. Don't type sh#t if not necessary.


I still didn't talk about iso propanol. Your the one twisting around also.


Originally posted by IamAnoobieCheez

Read carefully before you type this garbage. When I said about using 99% iso alcohol I was saying for those who are in the extreme class of cooling such as dry ice cooling, not for normal waterchilling use. That's what we were saying. Pay more attention before you let it out. ;)


If a "mix" it's not "extreme" enough then 99% Ethanol would be better then Methanol and iso propanol. Atleast if your looking on Freezing Point and wich one thats least toxic.


Originally posted by IamAnoobieCheez
What is this sh#t?

What's my waterchilling rig spec got to do with Kenneth's thread topic? I can't even come in here??? What you are saying here doesn't make any sense at all. Are you running out of words? Is that why you are telling me these weird things? You are the one said stick your nose in the methanol container and breath all in deliberately and you tell me this sh#t?

YOU and ulcajd are the ones started this flamming festival in Kenneth's thread, Remember??? YOU messed it up. YOu started the alcohol debate. YOU are the one was talking sh#t that is irrelevant to Kenneth's thread topic. YOU are the one changed the subject and crapped his thread. Nice going.

oh yeah, and be sure to answer my question in my previous post. Waiting for your answer.

I didnt say i deliberately inhale methanol if i did i would probably be dead or damage by it, probably beeing blind. What i meant from the begining was that it could be better to use something that arent lethal and toxic to breath in (NOT DELIBERATLY) or to get on your skin. Like Ethanol. I didnt take the iso propanol side becuse its also has toxic fumes and are not good to get on the skin.

Well why should i answer a claim i didnt make (about the iso propanol and water), i havn't any intrest in the claim YOU obviously have then you or the person that made the claim should answer that.

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Originally posted by Penti
No you asked if isopropyl alcohol was a differnece substance then isopropanol! I answer that question. I dont realy care or have energy to care about your dicussion with charlie.

Well why should i answer a claim i didnt make (about the iso propanol and water), i havn't any intrest in the claim YOU obviously have then you or the person that made the claim should answer that.


Don't you fool me. Don't forget the word "questioning". Maybe because you're from sweden but it's okay.. sometimes you can misunderstand things..

Take a good look at the screenshot. I think screenshot will better do.
;)

[IamAnoobieCheez]

and for you single sided Iso alcohol fanatics, take a good look at this diagram. I think I need to point this out to refresh.. ;)

[Penti]

Well i know what you meant with it..
Who the hell cares if Charlie writes two different names for the same substance! None of the names are wrong. I just enforce that it wasnt wrong saying isopropanol. Why do you get caught up with this, its not wrong calling C3H8O for isopropanol or isopropyl alcohol both names are right.

Please don't comment me anymore and i'm not an isopropanol fanatics nor Methanol fanatics. Please use a smaller size avatar it destroyes the forums look.

Edit:
"This is why I told you, you don't need to be joining here"
And if i do can't you accept that i dont want to quite sometime, that i want to stop discussing it and its pretty difficullt if you still asking me questions thats why i did ask you to dont comment me anymore.
BTW please lookover the size of the avatar.
Edit2:
I said i dont want too be apart of this thread anymore. I know how it started i want to leave you alone with the rest. I dont wanna spamm the thread at all. Just leave this behind.

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Originally posted by Penti
Please don't comment me anymore and i'm not an isopropanol fanatics nor Methanol fanatics. Please use a smaller size avatar it destroyes the forums look.
Don't comment you?? Then why did you post it in this thread? What are you doing here? Ethanol users, Outside. This is why I told you, you don't need to be joining here. Just looking for more arguments is what you are doing. ;)


Oh wait, YOU are the one slammed on Methanol. and you are telling me you have nothing to do with this? Hiding on me??? You are just as bad as uclajd. COuld be worse!! :eek: Don't make me post the screeny of what you have stared in this thread.

I suggest you don't go over the edge. It could lead to flamming trolling. I wouldn't want to see you doing it.

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Originally posted by Penti
Please don't comment me anymore and i'm not an isopropanol fanatics nor Methanol fanatics. Please use a smaller size avatar it destroyes the forums look.
The avatar stay as is.

The avatar's size will not be changed.

That avatar will be removed when the Iso fanatics die out. After the Methanol Vs. Iso talk dies out, then I will resume back to my lovely original girl avatar. ;)

The current avatar will stay ONLY for you Iso alcohol fanatics.


Be sure to hit "refresh" so you can read my updated message right above. ;) You need it. ;)

[Keeper]

Come on Cheeze, look at what you provided

You proved the danger of using Methanol is greater (flash point by 1 degree).

You proved the fumes are more toxic and resulted in far more deaths per exposure than either of the other two alcohols.

You proved the viscosity of Methanol almost stops flow at subzero temps without a mass of water.

You showed that the freezing point of both fluids is within 10 degrees of each other, and although Methanol wins that contest by almost 10 degrees at -60C neither will freeze.

Now I know I am on the bottom end of the learning scale in this field, and I visit here to make sure that I am scaling in a upward direction, but this horse is beat up pretty bad, and unless the thermal issue is coming up………..this horse is dead.

That 2610 was my 2500+ Barton. Right now I am using a 1700+ @ 2710 it folds 24/7 while I visit this fine site. Grant it, I do want cooler temps and better stable overclocks (and adjusting my fluid is where I will probably find it, I think I have too much Iso in the mix)……..but that’s not too bad for my first stab at extreme cooling.

How many WU has that killer you got put out by the way, I can prove mine work http://folding.stanford.edu/cgi-bin/userpage?name=Keeper all of them.

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Originally posted by Keeper
You proved the viscosity of Methanol almost stops flow at subzero temps without a mass of water.
What??.. when did anyone say about that? Where did you get that info from? Who said the methanol stops flow at subzero temps??? are you making this up and making fool out of me?

Vicosity of methanol? Have you looked at the comparison???

It is the viscosity of Isopropyl alcohol gets worse at subzero temps which gets all slushy and highly inefficient.


Only thing I can hear from you here is biased and making things up.




You showed that the freezing point of both fluids is within 10 degrees of each other, and although Methanol wins that contest by almost 10 degrees at -60C neither will freeze.
10C difference is critical. ;)




That 2610 was my 2500+ Barton. Right now I am using a 1700+ @ 2710 it folds 24/7 while I visit this fine site. Grant it, I do want cooler temps and better stable overclocks (and adjusting my fluid is where I will probably find it, I think I have too much Iso in the mix)……..but that’s not too bad for my first stab at extreme cooling.
2710mhz is weak overclock for a liquid temperature of -30~ -35C you are doing. That is aweful overclock actually. I really think it is. Something is serious wrong. Either your alcohol fluid is messed up or not installed the block right, or your pumping setup is messed up. Some thing is seriously holding back.




how many WU has that killer you got put out by the way, I can prove mine work http://folding.stanford.edu/cgi-bin/userpage?name=Keeper all of them.
i don't run folding nor any seti. I don't do that stuff. ;)

Why don't you run the real stuff.

- I want you to run Prime95 for hours at 2.71ghz. Post the screenshot. Running 15 minutes is not acceptable and no biased.


- Run piFast v4.1 or the hexus version. I'm sure you have done that haven't you? Post your result. No Biased setup.


- Run SuperPi@ 1mil. Post your screenie.



by looking at it, yours looks weak. but anyways.. like to see how far you can go in these apps including prime95. Folding is too easy, forget that.

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Get it though your head, both methanol and Isopropyl alcohol are highly flammable so you are taking a risk anyway. Of course you would have to take the risk otherwise why are you using it, doh.

Methanol has the lower FP than the Isopropyl.

They both have toxicity and you damn know it.

Methanol wins the match, overall.


Like I have said, Read this ---->
Originally posted by IamAnoobieCheez
Your excuse don't work here. I'm afraid, I won. ;) What makes you think you could get away with that.. Not enough data you provided im sorry to say. It's incomplete.


You also have not provided anything about rubbing alcohol beating methanol in FP, it is already hopeless to go with the Iso. Your backup is very poor.


Methanol wins overall. Methanol gets the award.

I would take Methanol over Isopropyl any day.


The decision has been made for continue using methanol.


Don't make me to repost.

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Don't forget... I've already made a decision that Methanol wins the match and that is what should be used. I am going to continuously use it. I take Methanol over Isopropyl any day.

;)


oh and don't forget to run those stability program and the benches I've told you to do. I want to see what you got. ;)

[Keeper]

Cheeze, my machines are providing a benefit to society, “all of them”…..this thread has been great entertainment, but what is the point of having a killer PC if it just sits idle and only serves as a mantle piece for bragging rights. Ya, I got mine into windows @2800 but it wouldn’t benefit my fellowman at that speed @2700 it is of use, it’s the best I can do at this point…….and others will reap benefits from my stewardship over the work cycles it will produce.

And when I master the skills to get stable clocks higher than I have now, my machines will still have purpose.

Can yours even produce one WU at any speed?

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Originally posted by Keeper
Cheeze, my machines are providing a benefit to society, “all of them”…..this thread has been great entertainment, but what is the point of having a killer PC if it just sits idle and only serves as a mantle piece for bragging rights. Ya, I got mine into windows @2800 but it wouldn’t benefit my fellowman at that speed @2700 it is of use, it’s the best I can do at this point…….and others will reap benefits from my stewardship over the work cycles it will produce.

And when I master the skills to get stable clocks higher than I have now, my machines will still have purpose.

Can yours even produce one WU at any speed?
Stop giving excuses and hiding.

Run Prime95. Run it for hours and post the screenie while it is running. Post the screeny.

Run piFast v4.1 as mentioned before. Post the screenie.

Run superPi as mentioned before. Post the screenie.


I think you're hiding something. You want to really measure the stability of the system, run Prime95, not Folding.

;)

[IamAnoobieCheez]

I'm sure you can stop the Folding for a *little while* and run some benches ha? If you don't have the time to run Prime95, run it later when you have time with your current setup. Run the benches I have told you to do. Don't worry, nobody is gonna kill you for stoping running the Folding for a very short period of time. ;) C'mon.... I'm waiting. ;)

[Keeper]

Cheeze, don’t hold your breath, that would be even more dangerous than using Iso. My setup will not stop folding till I put the pelt on it, and by that time I will have three more machines to take up the slack for my down time.

I use Mathmark by the way……………and I really would have a hard time justifying a 24hour down time to fail to satiate you anyway.

[JCviggen]

IamAnoobieCheez ,

I'm going to have to give you a warning on this.... i dont care if you're right or not about what's better, you're taking this too far. I dont see this having to do anything with the original topic anymore. If you want to talk to Keeper about stuff then use PM's or email please. And I think we all liked your old avatar better. Lets not act like kids here... just look at this page for crying out loud. Topic closed gentlemen.