Help choosing best cooling system (newbie) [Archive]

_MD_

03-06-2008, 12:40 PM

Coming from advance air cooling, it's time for me to hit the extreme voltages and thus extreme cooling. Today the tendency is of course water cooling... But for me, money is not an issue and I want the best OC possible. I have my eye on either prometeia mach II or vapochill LS... But I saw many many problems on this forum with phase change in general. So what would you advise the best option is? OR since I'm not that experienced with sub zero temps, maybe I should just get a high quality water cooler?!

Fujimitsu

03-06-2008, 12:46 PM

Get a custom built unit. Vapo & mach will not handle your CPU.

If money is not an option, you can skip watercooling completely.

Phase isn't that difficult to use, as many posts may lead you to believe. Insulation is relatively easy, and as long as you have a relatively long-term setup you don't have to re-do it too often.

You trying to cool just the CPU, or the gpu too? Prices will depend a lot on what you want to cool, what features you want, and how cold you expect to go.

Do a bit of reading as to how phase works, and what it can and cannot do. Then PM a builder near you (emphasis on near, they're heavy so shipping is mucho $$) to work out the details.

killermiller

03-06-2008, 12:48 PM

Go custom. You will get more for your money. If you bought a manufactured unit you probably won't be satisfied with the performance and then will have to pay to have it modded.

Hey Fuji, I like the Bush McCain pic... :rofl:

_MD_

03-06-2008, 12:57 PM

Fujimitsu

03-06-2008, 01:16 PM

Custom eh? Where can I have a custom cooling built for me? Because since I'm a novice, I'm not going to do it myself... plus once again, financing someone to do it for me is not a problem. :D I'm planning on chilling both, the cpu and gpu... But I'm afraid that because of improper (careless) installation from my side, the condensation might kill my components... :confused:

And as a matter of fact, I saw some pretty well priced water systems ($1000+) so was wondering how they justify it compared to the samely priced mach II ($900)???

You'd be an idiot to pay anywhere near that much for water man.

Same goes with phase, a unit can be had cheaper than a mach, and if you do want to pay that much.. the unit you can get is going to be a lot more powerful.

Are you constrained to containing the unit within a case? If so this will limit your options considerably, but it's not totally impossible.

Ideally you would want a unit for the CPU and a unit for the GPU (or a dual head unit, if you have 2). But this would depend on budget & space.

You can spend as much or as little as you want, it all depends on your requirements. I wouldn't worry about killing hardware, insulation isn't particularly hard.

[XC] gomeler

03-06-2008, 01:26 PM

Chop about $150 off the price-tag of the Mach II and you are in the range of a well-built single-stage. Slash it another $300 and you are looking at a bare-bones 1/3HP unit. You can keep dropping in price but performance is a function of price and size. $1,000+ for watercooling also is nuts, that had better have a chiller in the loop also :eek:

DagoDuck

03-06-2008, 01:31 PM

Sneil comes from Canada. Ask him once if he can build you something.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=169688

ruffus

03-06-2008, 06:32 PM

so i was looking at this thread and i seen that you are looking those values that XC gomeler gave you about right don't go with a mach get some one to builds one or build one your self you can get all the parts from undertheice.com then just ether find some one to put it togeather for you are try it your self the hardest parts are charging the cap tube sizeing but the best part is doing it all your self

QuantumZero

03-06-2008, 09:49 PM

hmm you can get some really nice Vapochill LS units from ebay for under $400. As I got mine too but as you see i cant assemble mine properly due to problems with condensation and I am running a fairly much more expensive setup than yours which will get much more expensive in a week or few. Building your own phase cooling system is fairly easy as well and I am pretty sure you or I or anyone can do it with parts from a non working refrigerator. My VapoChill cools the qx6850 down to -55C at 0 overclock, at maximum load it still remains at -55C, also you should know that QX9650 and QX6850 are a very little different being in 8MB and 12MB Cache and Wattage required, meaning that QX6850 emits more heat unless I am proven wrong.

Now closing off all matters you can go beyond phase cooling, LN2 and dry ice. Which may be cheaper to setup, better cooling and so forth. You can look at a few pictures on extremeoverclocking forums and how people run with LN2 for long time use. Obiously there could be a chance you may fry out your processor or motherboard like i fried two of my P5E3 series luckily they will be replaced or repaired by Asus 3 year warranty. Processors will be replaced too if they are retail and not OEM, depending on also if you tried to overclock it.

killermiller

03-06-2008, 09:56 PM

I think there is a problem with the temp sensor if it read -55 and stays there under load with a quad.

killermiller

03-06-2008, 10:06 PM

You may like this (http://www.under-the-ice.com/index.php?cPath=41) or this (http://www.under-the-ice.com/index.php?cPath=42&osCsid=cde851a6345438b05451d2ebeac84967)

teyber

03-06-2008, 10:09 PM

yeah talk to sneil. Don't get a prebuilt, you will definately regret it. I advise against phase on your GPu for everyday use. You can get a dual head built but keep in mind this will be quite a bit more expensive.

Regards

_MD_

03-07-2008, 08:41 AM

QuantumZero

03-07-2008, 09:02 AM

I am running on water and phase at the moment. Replace coolant every year/check pressure in compressor every 2-3 years. Also make sure not to use copper radiator/aluminum waterblock combo causing corossion. Also never use FluidXP+ that stuff spoils the radiator and waterblocks and tubing.
I suggest to go with all copper stuff from asetek, thermaltake, dangerden, blackice. Make a custom built you wont be disappointed. I am running huge on water cooling.

Fujimitsu

03-07-2008, 10:43 AM

Thanks a lot guys... I'm looking into custom phase changers...
As for the water cooling... what do you think about Boreas from coolit? If you get the complete system (with chassis) it would, with shipping turn out to be under $1000...

Also another question for you: how long can you run on water and phase? What kind kind of maintenance is involved in each?

Water will be considerably more maintenance. Dodge the boreas IMO. Either use radiators, or get a custom chiller built (they work like a phase unit, except they chill coolant). It's not bad, but it's just way too much coin.

Do not buy ANY case with the watercooling preinstalled. They're 99% of the time garbage, unless they're done BY HAND by a respectable modder. They usually use a bunch of garbage parts. If you really don't want to mod a case there are some custom cases available that are simply superb. You could get a great watercooling loop for one GPU and 1 CPU for around $400, which would leave quite a bit for a quality case in your budget.

That -55 number isn't something I would run with, probably a faulty temperature sensor (or should I say more faulty? most of them suck).

_MD_

03-07-2008, 12:02 PM

So you think Boreas isn't worth it, eh? even with custom parts?

You could get a great watercooling loop for one GPU and 1 CPU for around $400

Where??

Fujimitsu

03-07-2008, 12:18 PM

The boreas works OK, but it's just too much $$ IMO. Either go with a radiator, or a phase chiller...

As far as a good WC loop for $400:

D-tek Fuzion with nozzles - $75
Swiftech MCR320 - $55
EK Fullcover GPU block - $100
Laing D5 or DDC pump - $90
Tubing/Additives/fittings - you've got $80 left to play with.

You could spend more on the rad and pump if you wanted, but what I listed would do just fine.

If you are going to go water, pop over to the watercooling forum and ask there... there's a lot of routes you could go.

If you want to use the boreas, it would replace the radiator. It's just too expensive IMO, it'll double the cost of your loop.

killermiller

03-07-2008, 12:19 PM

If you are into overclocking and such then just skip water. It will just end up in a box in the closet when you go phase anyway.

Fujimitsu

03-07-2008, 12:24 PM

If you are into overclocking and such then just skip water. It will just end up in a box in the closet when you go phase anyway.

:up:

That's why I would advise against spending an incredible amount on it. It is useful, and effective compared to air, but it can get pretty expensive for minimal gains as you go into the "top end".

With the budget you're talking about, as long as you have the space to effectively mount the units I'd go phase.

_MD_

03-07-2008, 12:41 PM

I am ready to go phase... The only problem is I want it to be compatible with my case (cooler master stacker) and don't really have space for a humongous monster on my office table. So for that, either mach II or vapochill?

You may like this (http://www.under-the-ice.com/index.php?cPath=41) or this (http://www.under-the-ice.com/index.php?cPath=42&osCsid=cde851a6345438b05451d2ebeac84967)

So we all agree that the prebuilt case is good?

Fujimitsu

03-07-2008, 12:46 PM

I am ready to go phase... The only problem is I want it to be compatible with my case (cooler master stacker) and don't really have space for a humongous monster on my office table. So for that, either mach II or vapochill?

So we all agree that the prebuilt case is good?

If you want it to fit inside the stacker, you're pretty much out of luck. There's just not enough room for it (that i've seen).

You can get a unit to go under the case, cut a hole in the bottom and run the flex line up if you'd like.

Just to remind you: there's no reason to get the mach or vapo, they will perform worse and are the same size as anything you will get custom built.

Jinu sells the vapoli case with the single stage pre-installed as killermiller linked, and that might be a good buy for you. A custom built unit in a pre-fab case is fine, I was referring to watercooling when I said to stay away from prefab units.

A unit like this will only cool the CPU however, so keep that in mind.

_MD_

03-07-2008, 12:54 PM

You can get a unit to go under the case, cut a hole in the bottom and run the flex line up if you'd like.

Yes, sorry, that's what I meant. So alright, you're saying I can get a custom built phase (full system just plug and play) that will fit nicely under the case? And it will be better than commercial mach II or vapo?! hmm... and how much you think that'll cost me?

Fujimitsu

03-07-2008, 12:59 PM

Yes, sorry, that's what I meant. So alright, you're saying I can get a custom built phase (full system just plug and play) that will fit nicely under the case? And it will be better than commercial mach II or vapo?! hmm... and how much you think that'll cost me?

Talk to a builder.

Jinu117 is the builder for the units that were linked earlier by killermiller. I would reccomend finding someone a bit closer though, as shipping these things is very costly.

Sneil is a great builder, and is located in Canada... so I would PM him for prices.

Price will vary A TON depending on what you want, so you'll need to work it out with him.

_MD_

03-07-2008, 01:07 PM

Thanks alot guys! :D :D :D

ruffus

03-07-2008, 05:02 PM

this is stuff like you could make your self all you have to do is get the parts from here www.undertheice.com and find some one with the tools are if money is no big deal you could buy the tools to that is what i did and i built one that can go under my case i just have to cut the hole in the bottom of my case then they will stack nice and neatly

Yes, sorry, that's what I meant. So alright, you're saying I can get a custom built phase (full system just plug and play) that will fit nicely under the case? And it will be better than commercial mach II or vapo?! hmm... and how much you think that'll cost me?

killermiller

03-07-2008, 05:17 PM

Its www.under-the-ice.com

n00b 0f l337

03-07-2008, 07:37 PM

Sent ya a PM or two, since your looking for vapoli, there are people selling brand new or once used phase systems on ebay and such and some links.

Fujimitsu

03-08-2008, 07:05 AM

this is stuff like you could make your self all you have to do is get the parts from here www.undertheice.com and find some one with the tools are if money is no big deal you could buy the tools to that is what i did and i built one that can go under my case i just have to cut the hole in the bottom of my case then they will stack nice and neatly

I wouldn't reccomend someone buy tools if they're only going to build one unit. Unless you plan on making quite a few it's much cheaper to have one built, and it will most likely look & perform much better.

BTW as NoL said there's a vapoli case on ebay right now, for relatively cheap.

ruffus

03-08-2008, 04:31 PM

yes i under stand that what i ment was it was better to find some one around you with the tools it is fun and you get a better sense accomplishment if you do it your self as well if you follow by the stickys then you can almost not go wrong i have found and the only resson i said this was because i had already offered up my tools as i only live like 1 hour and a half from him