My Poorly Prommie :(

[Scott]

Ok

Today i drove the 180 mile round trip to go see if Marci could fix the Prometeia... I expected it to take a while so didnt think id see it til next weekend.

Dropped the System off, and went to get some lunch, hour later was just about to set off home, when he calls me and says its working...

A bemused me, goes back to the shop and there it is, powered up and working fine. All he did was disable the On board CPU temp, cos it goes wonky once it gets below -15 apperantly, and plugged a fan into the CPU Header on the mobo.

BOom, worked fine first time, and he rebooted it turned it off, back on again worked no probs...

So, off we go back to my house with working prommie in the back seat.

Get home, take it up stairs, plug the prommie in, the power supply in, and then the pc in.

Turn the prommie cooler on, waits til -33 and then turn the PC on. Turns on ok, gets past bios, and then 3 seconds into the XP startup screen, it reboots.

Try again, it reboots into an endless cycle of it.

Has anyone got any idea what this could be? If i cant get it to work, it's for sale. As it seems to only want to work in Wakefield!

[TheDude]

Try entering the bios before it reboots and set it to boot from CD 1st. Then reboot with OS CD in and repair windows.
You still have temp turned off and a fan plugged in I assume?
Do you get any error messages on the screen before it reboots or any beeps?
Have you talked to Marci about it?

[Scott]

Yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss sssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss im now using my super cooled prommie to type this message!!!!

Currently showing at god knows what, it was 7c and now its 23c..... Not good :(

Anyway, its the AT power supply that is causing the problem. I tried using an ATX one, that was powering my other computer but that brought the same problems.

So i thought for the hell of it, id try the 550w Enermax that is powering the Computer itself.

I left the prommie on for 20 mins, to make sure it was really cold, then turned it off, unplugged it really quickly pluged the 12v into the molex on my P4, turned it on and hey presto, works like a charm!

So i guess im going to have to cool the prommie using the AT, then unplug it all, plug the 12v from the prommie into the Spare molex in the computer (cant use this as standard, cos its the Asus P4p800, and it DOESNT hold the reset signal, hence the need for a seperate power supply) and turn it on.

Til i get a different Power Supply :) I'll order one from Marci's shop, and ask him to do what he did this afternoon to get an ATX to start without it being plugged in to a mobo!

So im NEARLY there :)

Thanks all for your help, and i'll be placing an order with marci soon!

[Scott]

Soon as i posted that message. The machine rebooted, and now wont boot up, just back into the same cycle! lol

Bios Is untouched, i left it as marci set it up as. I can leave it in bios sitting there for two hours, and it doesnt reboot. Seems when it loads into windows (load on CPU) it fails, and reboots.

No messages before reboot, just does one turn of the progress bar then reboots.

[TheDude]

Seems when it loads into windows (load on CPU) it fails, and reboots

That's why I suggested repairing windows. Did you set it to run chkdsk or anything like that on next reboot before it started this looping reboot cycle?

[Scott]

It always falls over at excatly the same place. It wasnt changed from when Marci got it to boot. Nor the only time i got it to boot here :/

Might run chkdisk tomorrow, just to make sure. It cant hurt!

[Popcicle]

Sure sounds like a memory problem.

What are you running for DDR? Voltage? Timings?

Try one single stick and see what happens.

To get an ATX style PSU to start up without

being plugged into a Mboard..... look at the 20

pin power plug and use a jumper wire between

a green wire (center of plug) and any black wire

on the plug. There will be a black wire close by.


Luck.


Pops.

[Scott]

Ta for the advice Popsicle..

The memory works, its brand new Twinmoss Winbond, 1 gb of it. 2 x 512meg running in Dual Channel. Im 100% sure that works fine :)

I have 2 x 256meg pc3200 twinx Corsair laying about, i'll try that tho just to be sure :)

Im gonna nip out today and buy a ATX power supply, i was going to ask which pins i needed to short, so i'll try that soon as i get one.

[JCviggen]

sounds like you're barely making CPU contact m8

[Scott]

CPU Contact is excellent, i put the head on then took it off, and the evap was nearly spot on the CPU.

I think the reason it was getting hot, was because i turned it off then straight back on again, not waiting 2 mins :/

[Scott]

Well i've just bought a 400w ATX power supply, shorted the green and black pins.

Prommie powered up fine, but STILL reboots at the same place.

I have also bought a Surge Protector and plugged all 3 into that. :(

[Scott]

Originally posted by TheDude
That's why I suggested repairing windows. Did you set it to run chkdsk or anything like that on next reboot before it started this looping reboot cycle?

Chkdsk wont work, drive is formatted in NTFS :(

[Scott]

Ok, here's what i've tried so far...

550w Enermax Power Computer
300w AT Power Supply Powering Prommie
Mains Lead Powering Prometeia Base Unit

All plugged in via mains through Belkin Surge Protector.

Result: Reboot after 3 seconds of Windows XP Startup.

550w Enermax Power Computer
Brand New 400w Power Supply Powering Prommie
Mains Lead Powering Prometeia Base Unit

All plugged in via mains through Belkin Surge Protector.

Result: Reboot after 3 seconds of Windows XP Startup.

Brand New 400w Enermax Powering Computer
550w Enermax Powering Supply Powering Prommie
Mains Lead Powering Prometeia Base Unit

All plugged in via mains through Belkin Surge Protector.

Result: Reboot after 3 seconds of Windows XP Startup.

I've also tried different RAM in the Computer, in there at the mo is 1gb Twinmoss Winbond, i tried 1 x 256meg Corsair PC3200 and i then tried the Other 256meg Module, for matched pair.

Same result as before.

:(

Im stumped :(

[JCviggen]

i still think you have bad CPU contact. You can see a perfect print on the evap but that doesnt mean its actually on well when you're running it, only that at some point (like when you push it down) you made contact... often when everything is running it will have less good contact (or no pressure at all on the core)

try underclocking it with low voltage... if it reboots more if you use higher voltage, then contact is your prob

[TheDude]

Originally posted by Scott
Chkdsk wont work, drive is formatted in NTFS :(

Sorry, I didn't mean for you to run chkdsk...I was asking if you had tried to run it at next reboot because I had a problem with a looping reboot like that when I set it to run at next reboot...ended up having to repair windows. But ignore that...doesn't apply to your problem.
I think JC might have something there, I didn't think of that because your imprint was good, but as he said, you only have to push it down once to get an imprint. ;)

[serialkiller]

hmm im a noob aat phase change, but i had the excact same problem and this was solved by checking the evap head and making real sure it made good contact with the cpu...

You might have already tried that but still, id doublecheck because as JC said, you can have an imprint without the evap making good contact aswell...

Hope this noob advice does you any good :)

[Scott]

All good advice this, and damn do i need it :(

Im taking it to my parents house to try the last thing that is different when Marci got it running. And that's the electricity supply, its the only other thing that has change since running it at Marci's place, or here that i havent been able to change.

So im going to try run it at there place. If still the same prob. I'll check the Evap head on the core.

Underclocking, now there's a first! :eek: lol

[Scott]

Ok, took the Evap off... here's what it looks like.

http://www.users.totalise.co.uk/~scott.holmes/Lian Li/Mobo.jpg

http://www.users.totalise.co.uk/~scott.holmes/Lian Li/Evap.jpg

Any thoughts?

[berkut]

looks likeit almost doesent touch the cpu

try usng less seal string, only minimal ammounts

[Scott]

Ok, tried that.

Put on a really thing layer of Seal String, and made sure i pressed it down hard as i dared. Just waiting for it to cool, then we'll see what happens.

[Scott]

Same Problem :(

:cussing: :shrug:

[Scott]

Is it working?

I reboot, go into BIOS. Load Setup Defaults. Change the Boot Sequence From Floppy>HDD>CD to CD>HDD>Floppy... reboot, and it fires up the XP setup.

Normally when i do this, when it finishes loading the files, before it gets to "Hit F8 to agree" it gives me the Stop: C0000221 Error. This time it didnt... so it carries on. Loads all teh files.

I reboot and remove the CD. Finds the hard drive and carries on with the XP Setup.

Now it just gave me a BSOD error, ntfs.sys.... reboot remove the CD, finds the Hdd and then restarts the XP install...

Its still installing now.

has anyone got a clue whats going on?

http://www.users.totalise.co.uk/~scott.holmes/Lian Li/BSOD.jpg

[Scott]

Hrmm, how frustrating!!

I decided to format the drive again, and start from scratch. So formatted it in Fat32.

Used a different windows XP disk, and it installed fine :) No reboots. Until i logged in.

Soon as i went to change some settings in windows, it rebooted.

So i looked in the Computer, and noticed that on the left had side of the Evap, there is condensation???? :( Not good.

Took the sides off the Prometeia itself, and noticed this:

http://www.users.totalise.co.uk/~scott.holmes/Lian Li/Leak.jpg

Help :(

[Gary Lloyd]

Are you in a very humid area? Wrap a little wet toilet paper around the sensor of a thermometer and wave it around in the air. The lowest temperature it gets to is the wetbulb temperature. Roughly, this is the temperature at which condensate will form given the present conditions in the room. Any surfaces which are below this temperature will form condensation.

[Scott]

It doesnt feel very humid here today, nice and cool to be honest.

The leak in the Prommie i can deal with, it only drips onto metal nowhere near any electrics. I can just place a sponge there.

What worries me is the condensation on the Evap, its directly above everything as you know, need to stop that or i cant leave it running for longer than half an hour!

[Gary Lloyd]

How it "feels" is subjective and therefore irrelevant.

If condensate is forming, the surface needs to be insulated or heated, preferably insulated. Or, the room needs to be dehumidified.

[Scott]

Dehumidifed... too darn expensive :/

Insulated i can do, but how do i insualate a square evap head?

[Gary Lloyd]

Foam tape (armaflex or equivalent).

[Scott]

B and Q sell that do you know? Ie a hardware store.. or best going to a plumbers?

http://www.armacell.com/www/armacell/armacell.nsf/ansHTMLSeitenLookUp/UK_Frame?OpenDocument

Class 0 Armaflex - Tape <-- That Stuff?

[Gary Lloyd]

Yep, that's the stuff. Hardware store, plumbers supply. I don't know what a B and Q is, but they probably have it, too.

[Popcicle]

The evap doesn't look to be making contact with
the CPU core-die at all.

May have to add more washers or trim the four
legs on the stand-off.

Here is a thread that may help you

out:http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17446


Luck.



Pops.

[Scott]

Hrmm Interesting....

How is it, that when you add more you get better contact? That would take it further away from the core wouldnt it?

I know have only one on each side, and it works better now that it did. Still cant stay in windows for long, but least im getting into it!

[Scott]

Ps - Do they have to be metal washers?

I cant find any more of those yet, found some card/paper ones tho...

[Holst]

Your definately getting a bad contact.

next time you fit the evap only but paste on the CPU, and leavethe evap clean then you will get a much better idea of the contact area.

All your problems sound like bad contact to me.

PSU on the prommy shuldnt make any difference, im using a £5 12v 3amp PSU from maplins to run my prommy and that works fine for me.

Id also try running the system with the prommy reset and power leads unplugged, turn the prommy on and wait till its cold then just turn on your PC.

But you need to sort out your CPU contact first before you run it aain or you might break something :)

[Scott]

Ta for the advice.

Im just formatting the drive again, then im going to put some more washers on, see if i can get better contact.

Also, i have neitehr the power nor the reset leads plugged into the mobo, as you say all i do is turn the Prommie on with the seperate power supply, wait and then turn the PC on.

[Marci]

Half the problem is with the case not being bolted properly to the Promi Base, so every time the rig is moved it's gonna put strain on the mounting and at the wrong angle will prise the Head away from the CPU...

First thing I'd do would be at all costs to get the top case bolted securely to the bottom unit to stop it moving away from ya when you're getting it all together. Part of your condensation problem will be due to the gaffataped portion of the hose... I'll guess condensation is forming there and then running down the hosing, dripping out the other end...

But as said, we just built it up in the shop in the normal fashion... and it worked here perfectly. Dismantled and redid it, worked fine again. Shut down power up round n round we go... all behaved exactly as it should fer us...

[Scott]

The only reason its not mounted to the base with all for bolts, is because i didnt feel confident enough that once i'd drilled the rivots out of the HDD Cage holder, id be able to fix it securly again..

Someone else may be, but im just not :(

[WxChaser]

Scott - Turbo is working on a tutorial/thread that will show how to assemble the kit and attach the 2 case pieces properly and it should be up and available here on xtreme in a few more days.

[NyCUndaGrounD]

Originally posted by Scott
Ok, took the Evap off... here's what it looks like.

http://www.users.totalise.co.uk/~scott.holmes/Lian Li/Mobo.jpg

http://www.users.totalise.co.uk/~scott.holmes/Lian Li/Evap.jpg

Any thoughts?

Well looking at the weird shape outline of the thermal paste on your compressor head, it looks like either you cpu shell or that copper block on the compressor has uneven surfaces. It might be you compressor head that is uneven, so i recommend sanding it.

[Popcicle]

look closely at the TM on the evaperator head.......

I see a line across the top of it from left to right. This
looks to be where you initially sat the evap to the CPU
mount (and at an angle while doing so).

The top/right hand one-third of the evap has tried to
make contact as you can tell by looks of the TM after
seperation of the evap head and its mounting plate.

The remainder of the TM hasn't made contact with
anything.

The trick for me in mounting is to hold the evap down
firmly with one hand and never letting go. At the
same time bolt the evap down with the other hand.

Don't be afraid to add more washers as this will
allow you to exert a little more spring pressure
when you bolt the evap down.

[TheDude]

I agree with Pops, Only contact was that one thin line and a little less paste would be better. ;)