*Need a suggestion please*

[n00bieNation]

Hi everyone,

As you can see this is my fist post at XtremeSystems Forums, and I would like to start it by saying that I am very happy to be part of the crew. Maybe down the road I will be a good part of the society, and hope that I will be a good help to those who are a new to the XtremeSystems Forums and those who are new to computers in general.

In addition, I would like to say that I am currently out of college and working for myself as an IT Professional. I have graduated as NAISS student (Network Administration and Internet Security Specialist) from Everest College (a.k.a. CDI College). As you can see I am not a complete n00b when comes to computers, but I always welcome suggestions and critics from other people (how else would you learn). :)

By this being said, I need ‘lil help from you guys. What I need is a suggestion on building a new computer. Before I ask you any questions I would like to explain what I want and what I am aiming for.

The system that I am going to build in focused on gaming mainly (when I have time of course), and I will be doing some web designs and what not (but not that important on this system anyways). I want to focus on DDR2 and Dual-Core CPUs. The reason I want to stick with DDR2 is because I think that DDR3 is just not worth enough to justify the price difference (I am talking about High-End stuff only). I have not tried http://www.chaintech.com.tw/a2111_product_spec.php?serno=407# so I cannot tell you if it is any good (or any other that if in same range), and I bet ya it will be just too expensive anyways.

As of Quad-Core, well the Quad-Core CPUs are mainly for multitasking like film editing and what not. Moreover, the prices of the Quad-Core CPUs are in $1000+ range here in Toronto (Canada), and the benchmarks that I saw are not any better than of those with Dual-Core. As I am going to be playing games and making Websites I do not need to go with Quad-Core just yet (at least that’s what I think).

As of the money, well there is no limit here because I really want good machine, but I am not 16 years old (no hard feelings towards younger crowds) that have a father that is willing to spend unlimited amount of $$$ on my new system. So yes, I would appreciate every penny saved (but I do want the best that I can get that can justify the price).

Finally, what I need from you guys is to give me the following suggestions:

1. Looking at the specs of my future PC (below) do you think I should go with DDR3 or not?

2. From the list of components do you know if there is a better motherboard (or ANY other component listed) that I should go with?

3. Are these components good for overclocking (I read a lot of reviews and it seems that they are good except the GPU I am going with)?

4. And if you do give me any suggestions like “This motherboard is better that this one!”, could you please include why it is better than the one I picked up originally (if possible please)?

5. I also need to know what would be the best product for cooling my GPU if I am going to overclock it. I was looking into that, but just could not find anything at all (sorry).

6. Is there a need to go beyond 4 GB of RAM (I was thinking to get 8 GIGs)?

7. I was also looking forward to get wireless router, but I am not sure what to get. I was thinking about DIR-655 or WRT600N-CA. What I am looking from a router is to be reliable and secure (I know CISCO switch would be great, but no need to spend money on that). I usually deal with cheap a$$ routers that I do not like anyways when comes to setting up a network for someone.

8. If any of the components are not compatible with each other or best compatible please let me know as it is possible to overlook things (I hope this is the finale thing I need to know). Thanx a lot on this one who ever lets me know!!


Here is the list of components I am after:

Chase and Cooling together:
VapoChill LS Black + Lian Li PC65B

HDD:
(x2) WD Caviar SE16 250GB

Motherboard:
Maximus Formula

RAM:
(x2) OCZ (OCZ2RPR10664GK) DDR2 PC2-8500 1066 MHz Reaper HPC Edition 4GB (2x2048) Dual Channel Kit

CPU:
Intel E8500

GPU:
(x2) RADEON HD3870x2

HD/BD/DVD Writer:
LG GGW-H20L

Keyboard:
Logitech G15

Mouse:
Logitech G9

Monitor:
L196W2Q-BF

PSU:
ULTRA X3 1600-Watt Energy Efficient Modular Power Supply

Sound Card:
Auzen X-Fi Prelude 7.1

Speakers:
Logitech G51

Router (Wireless):
DIR-655 or WRT600N-CA

The cooling components (such as HDD and Motherboard if needed):
ULT40010 and (x2) ZM-NBF47


Well that’s it for now. I hope you guys will be able to help. And thanx a lot in advance to all of you. I also apologize if this is the wrong section of the forum.

P.S. I will be overclocking the system components!

n00bieNation,
Cheers!

[Giacomo]

Hello and welcome onboard.

I don't know anything about that PSU, but if the 1600W spec is correct, you're gonna waste a lot of money on that. I've frankly understood that you're trying to pick the best in every aspect, but, even so, you can buy a 1kW PSU and be OK with that. I'm sure that even a 850W model would perfectly suit your needs.

The number of cores for the CPU really depends on a lot of factors. Yes, you should be OK with two cores for gaming and web developing, but they say that multi-core support is being taken into consideration for games too, so who knows what's up in the future with that... At the moment you're however OK with two cores, and they'll overclock like hell (especially these new 45nm models). I was about to suggest you to pick an E8400, way cheaper and with only a little multiplier difference, but... If you're gonna put it under phase change, you might actually need that multiplier to marginally justify the phase change cooling. Bear in mind that you're gonna be FSB limited surely before being cooling-limited, and I don't know if an E8500 is worth the VapoChill...

The two Radeons are simply the best out there, you might consider a little more "rationale" approach: I don't know your monitor and can't google it (sure of its spelling?), but four RV670 GPUs aren't really justified today, except for gaming at 2560*1600 with filters on, and even if it were your case, drivers aren't still that great for such a high GPU number. I would suggest you to buy a single, nice HD3870 X2 and save the money you would have spent on the other one for a future HD4870, which should be out in June. This approach would help you keeping your system current, with the same total expense.

The RAM is OK and you're right about DDR3, I have chosen a 2x2GB Mushkin Redline XP2-8000, but prices for memories are very different from market to market and place to place, and I live far from you, in Italy. Assuming that OCZ, Mushkin, G.Skill, Crucial, Geil top sticks are all good, I would simply suggest to pick the most convenient ones you can find.

The mainboard is well regarded, though if you like spending time studying the BIOS and tweakin' like mad I would suggest you a more interesting DFI LANparty LT X38-T2R. The ASUS is easier and very nice however.

For hard drives, I would suggest you to spend a little more (especially if you listen to some of my aforementioned thoughts and save lots on money on other stuff) and buy, for the OS only, a Western Digital Raptor drive. Don't be fooled by the "SATA" spec, even if it's not SATA-II, it sports 10.000rpm with half the seek time of a common 7.200 drive. Brilliant drives, available to you in 36GB, 74GB and 150GB flavors (I bought myself a 74GB one for my OS). Pay attention to the product number: it must report "ADFD" (i.e. "WD740ADFD" for the 74GB model). That's because this is the second revision, with 16MB of cache... The previous one was 8MB and maybe it lacked NCQ.

That's all, from me. Good luck.

Giacomo

[n00bieNation]

Hello and welcome onboard.

I don't know anything about that PSU, but if the 1600W spec is correct, you're gonna waste a lot of money on that. I've frankly understood that you're trying to pick the best in every aspect, but, even so, you can buy a 1kW PSU and be OK with that. I'm sure that even a 850W model would perfectly suit your needs.

The number of cores for the CPU really depends on a lot of factors. Yes, you should be OK with two cores for gaming and web developing, but they say that multi-core support is being taken into consideration for games too, so who knows what's up in the future with that... At the moment you're however OK with two cores, and they'll overclock like hell (especially these new 45nm models). I was about to suggest you to pick an E8400, way cheaper and with only a little multiplier difference, but... If you're gonna put it under phase change, you might actually need that multiplier to marginally justify the phase change cooling. Bear in mind that you're gonna be FSB limited surely before being cooling-limited, and I don't know if an E8500 is worth the VapoChill...

The two Radeons are simply the best out there, you might consider a little more "rationale" approach: I don't know your monitor and can't google it (sure of its spelling?), but four RV670 GPUs aren't really justified today, except for gaming at 2560*1600 with filters on, and even if it were your case, drivers aren't still that great for such a high GPU number. I would suggest you to buy a single, nice HD3870 X2 and save the money you would have spent on the other one for a future HD4870, which should be out in June. This approach would help you keeping your system current, with the same total expense.

The RAM is OK and you're right about DDR3, I have chosen a 2x2GB Mushkin Redline XP2-8000, but prices for memories are very different from market to market and place to place, and I live far from you, in Italy. Assuming that OCZ, Mushkin, G.Skill, Crucial, Geil top sticks are all good, I would simply suggest to pick the most convenient ones you can find.

The mainboard is well regarded, though if you like spending time studying the BIOS and tweakin' like mad I would suggest you a more interesting DFI LANparty LT X38-T2R. The ASUS is easier and very nice however.

For hard drives, I would suggest you to spend a little more (especially if you listen to some of my aforementioned thoughts and save lots on money on other stuff) and buy, for the OS only, a Western Digital Raptor drive. Don't be fooled by the "SATA" spec, even if it's not SATA-II, it sports 10.000rpm with half the seek time of a common 7.200 drive. Brilliant drives, available to you in 36GB, 74GB and 150GB flavors (I bought myself a 74GB one for my OS). Pay attention to the product number: it must report "ADFD" (i.e. "WD740ADFD" for the 74GB model). That's because this is the second revision, with 16MB of cache... The previous one was 8MB and maybe it lacked NCQ.

That's all, from me. Good luck.

Giacomo

Hi Giacomo,

I would like to thank you for the warm welcome to the forums, and for the tips. As of the HD I just went through the WD website and look at their stats and under the High Performance section. I heard that NCQ is not that good as WD programming team did a poor job (I am not sure if that is true). I even had a link of a guy writing about it, but I forgot what it was. If I find it I will post it.

For now, I will stick with D-C CPU cuz it is only like $300, and when gaming and applications do move to the Q-C “full time usage” I will get myself latest Q-C CPU that will be available at that time.

And you are right about the GPU. I think that I will stick to your suggestion and just use my old gfx card (GeForce 6800) until HD4870 comes out and then get two of the (x2 version if it comes out). But, in all that the “waiting game” will never end. :(

Also the PSU suggestion is right, but I am not sure what the new HD4870 will require.
Finally, I would like to thank you for the tip on the motherboard. I will look into it and see what it is offering.

P.S. The monitor that I was talking about can be found here (the correct spelling was L196WTQ-BF) : http://ca.lge.com/en/products/model/detail/lcdmonitors_l196wtqbf.jhtml

But I think I will get something else. I am not sure what to get. Do you have any suggestions? Also I cannot go bigger than 19’. I may be able to fit somehow 20’, but not sure. What do you think about L206WTY-BF. I want something that can support high resolution (it does not have to be full 1080p, but 1680 x 1050 or something like that would be ideal), it must have high Contrast Ratio, and as low Reponse Time as possible.

n00bieNation,
Cheers!

[Giacomo]

Hi Giacomo,

I would like to thank you for the warm welcome to the forums, and for the tips. As of the HD I just went through the WD website and look at their stats and under the High Performance section. I heard that NCQ is not that good as WD programming team did a poor job (I am not sure if that is true). I even had a link of a guy writing about it, but I forgot what it was. If I find it I will post it.

For now, I will stick with D-C CPU cuz it is only like $300, and when gaming and applications do move to the Q-C “full time usage” I will get myself latest Q-C CPU that will be available at that time.

And you are right about the GPU. I think that I will stick to your suggestion and just use my old gfx card (GeForce 6800) until HD4870 comes out and then get two of the (x2 version if it comes out). But, in all that the “waiting game” will never end. :(

Also the PSU suggestion is right, but I am not sure what the new HD4870 will require.
Finally, I would like to thank you for the tip on the motherboard. I will look into it and see what it is offering.

P.S. The monitor that I was talking about can be found here (the correct spelling was L196WTQ-BF) : http://ca.lge.com/en/products/model/detail/lcdmonitors_l196wtqbf.jhtml

But I think I will get something else. I am not sure what to get. Do you have any suggestions? Also I cannot go bigger than 19’. I may be able to fit somehow 20’, but not sure. What do you think about L206WTY-BF. I want something that can support high resolution (it does not have to be full 1080p, but 1680 x 1050 or something like that would be ideal), it must have high Contrast Ratio, and as low Reponse Time as possible.

n00bieNation,
Cheers!

Hi again, let's see if I can help you a little.

Western Digital / NCQ: don't know anything about that, but I can assure that the fastest mainstream HDD is still the "ADFD" Raptor. There are little areas in which the latest and biggest drives from WD and Hitachi do a nice competition, but in general, if those sizes satisfact you, and you're willing to spend the required money (could be not that much, actually), you're surely gonna have the fastest drive you can reasonably buy. And pair it with a common 500GB or so nice and cheap drive to store your media.

GPU: you're right about the neverending "waiting game", in fact I don't suggest you to keep the 6800: buy the 3870X2 you desired, I only told you to buy one instead of two. So that, saving those 450$, you can spend them this summer and pair a single 3870X2 with a single 4870X2 (or even not X2). One of the great points by ATI is that you can mix up different cards in CrossFire, so that you don't necessarily have to play the waiting game. I mean that you can do and mix everything from 3800 on.

PSU: don't worry, the only system I saw, which was draining 700W from the wall plug, was a Tri-SLI setup in an Anandtech review. Let's just skip comments about that ;) with a couple of big ATI cards, plus a dual core CPU, plus some drives, you're gonna stay well below that 700W figure. Buy a good, real 850W, you'll be happy for a long time.

Monitor: if you're stuck with 19", that's an another reason why you shouldn't buy two HD3870X2 now. To be honest, even one would be overkill for today apps at that resolution... I think that maybe you could simply buy a nice HD3870, you can play everything maxed out at 1440*900 with that (except for Crysis or other games that wouldn't behave nicely with an X2 either, because of drivers). Let me tell you: it's a little sad that you're assembling such a machine for a poor 19" monitor... I strongly suggest you a 20", with a 1680*1050 resolution. You just add one inch, but you get a far nicer resolution. Mine is Samsung 2032BW, very very nice. Ehm... Sorry, I just noticed that you already realized all this by yourself. I leave it written to encourage you: that's my suggestion, go with 20", google the Samsung model I mentioned.

Regards,
Giacomo

[n00bieNation]

Hi again, let's see if I can help you a little.

Western Digital / NCQ: don't know anything about that, but I can assure that the fastest mainstream HDD is still the "ADFD" Raptor. There are little areas in which the latest and biggest drives from WD and Hitachi do a nice competition, but in general, if those sizes satisfact you, and you're willing to spend the required money (could be not that much, actually), you're surely gonna have the fastest drive you can reasonably buy. And pair it with a common 500GB or so nice and cheap drive to store your media.

GPU: you're right about the neverending "waiting game", in fact I don't suggest you to keep the 6800: buy the 3870X2 you desired, I only told you to buy one instead of two. So that, saving those 450$, you can spend them this summer and pair a single 3870X2 with a single 4870X2 (or even not X2). One of the great points by ATI is that you can mix up different cards in CrossFire, so that you don't necessarily have to play the waiting game. I mean that you can do and mix everything from 3800 on.

PSU: don't worry, the only system I saw, which was draining 700W from the wall plug, was a Tri-SLI setup in an Anandtech review. Let's just skip comments about that ;) with a couple of big ATI cards, plus a dual core CPU, plus some drives, you're gonna stay well below that 700W figure. Buy a good, real 850W, you'll be happy for a long time.

Monitor: if you're stuck with 19", that's an another reason why you shouldn't buy two HD3870X2 now. To be honest, even one would be overkill for today apps at that resolution... I think that maybe you could simply buy a nice HD3870, you can play everything maxed out at 1440*900 with that (except for Crysis or other games that wouldn't behave nicely with an X2 either, because of drivers). Let me tell you: it's a little sad that you're assembling such a machine for a poor 19" monitor... I strongly suggest you a 20", with a 1680*1050 resolution. You just add one inch, but you get a far nicer resolution. Mine is Samsung 2032BW, very very nice. Ehm... Sorry, I just noticed that you already realized all this by yourself. I leave it written to encourage you: that's my suggestion, go with 20", google the Samsung model I mentioned.

Regards,
Giacomo

Hi,

Yeah I will stick with 22`. I just measured the thing and it can fit. I will have to cut a bit of the desk, but who cares. :)

Regards,
n00bieNation

[n00bieNation]

Does anyone have any other suggestions?

[Kondik]

Yes, wait for 45 nm's quads ... really i had an 8400 now i have q6600 both OCed even if there is less MHz on the quad it makes my day a lot better because vista can handle proces - core affiniy well so i never wait for anything. 1600 PSU is too much , useless.

Get 2 - 3 10 K RPM Raptors you will be astonished
Mouse - I love my Lachesis ... i game a bit and still work in Photoshop and that needs precise low DPI sensor [ 250 DPI in photoshop but high bandwith there the 16bit/1000Hz comes handy ] and the rubber finishing = it sits in hand like nailed

G15 is great but the old one the new one is useless byt the older G11 instead of newer G15

VGA - the only ATI i had was Radeon 9800 so i can;t help i'd wait for 9800GX2
RAM - The more the better (: