Hideo Kojima - Metal Gear Solid 4 Creator - 50 gig blu ray discs too small.

[Kunaak]

man, this kinda cracks me up.
I know that the guys making MGS4 are going insane with the graphics and story, but heres the main guy behing the whole thing, saying blu ray discs arent big enough.

1 game - over 50 gigs.
incredible.

(this isnt a Anti Blu Ray thing, so dont start on that)

just amazed to see one game, get that big.
time will tell how true this statement is.
but still, pretty crazy to think 1 game, can be already over 50 gigs.

took them years before they pushed the limits of DVD.
now they are doing it in months.

http://www.n4g.com/tech/News-117932.aspx

Kojima : I am not satisfied with the quality yet, however...there isn't enough space.

Interviewer: Not enough space..on..Blu-ray..?

Kojima: Yes.(laughs). Not enough space.

[ownage]

That sucks, i only have a 74gb raptor in my gaming pc LOL! :p:

Sometimes you see games taking 10gb hardisk space, and those games dont even have a big world or long gamestory.
Oblivion is big, but takes only 4,5gb harddisk space. If MGS4 takes 50gb, they dont use good compression.

[GrimReaperGuy]

It's no longer cost-effective to do things efficiently; why take the time to write things properly when we have so much processing power/storage to throw around? :shakes:

[alfaunits]

We still don't have enough HD read/write capacity to throw around, but we do CPU power - compress!

[GripS]

It's no longer cost-effective to do things efficiently; why take the time to write things properly when we have so much processing power/storage to throw around? :shakes:

Ding ding ding ding ding ding...... Tell him what he's won Bob.

[grimREEFER]

no complaints about the 256mb video ram? no complaints about the 256mb system ram?
the 50 gig disk is the limitation hes mad at lol?

[D4rkn3ss]

probaly most than half of this it's stupid cutscene HD videos..

[xoqolatl]

Procedural materials, when? WHEN?

[Systemcepe]

probaly most than half of this it's stupid cutscene HD videos..

Yeah I read somewhere that MGS4 will include over 4hourse of ingame cutscenes :shocked:

[Frank M]

WTF


but still, pretty crazy to think 1 game, can be already over 50 gigs.

took them years before they pushed the limits of DVD.
now they are doing it in months.

Sure is crazy.
I remember back when I had to make space on the hdd for Starcraft, which
took up ~150MB. (Yet how much I played with it...). I also remember when
I was first shocked that AoE2 took ~190MB typical and >300MB for full
installation - and thought that with the 4GB hdd then, how will future games
fit?
Then as drives' sizes exploded, game sizes started following. But now, this
looks like game sizes will soon be exploding, too...

/Gee, I'm feeling old :D


Oblivion is big, but takes only 4,5gb harddisk space.

:hehe: add QTP3 which is 1.8GB IIRC in itself, then some more mods and
enhancements, and it will be a lot more :D

It's no longer cost-effective to do things efficiently; why take the time to write things properly when we have so much processing power/storage to throw around? :shakes:

Yep, unfortunately this is the world we are living in..

probaly most than half of this it's stupid cutscene HD videos..

Hmm... that would mean a lot of cutscene videos, longer than the actual
game playtime :D

[jimmyz]

They should just sell the game on an external hdd. the added cost may spur him into looking at some trimming of the fat.

[[XC] gomeler]

Wow 50GB? That has got to be HD cutscenes for 75% of that, there is no way he can be using up more than 10-15GB for textures and maps.

[RaZz!]

It's no longer cost-effective to do things efficiently; why take the time to write things properly when we have so much processing power/storage to throw around? :shakes:

QFT.

those guys are just idiots, seriously. there's so much computing power wasted nowadays that it already hurts.

i can programme a crap application with 239765923756 uncompressed textures too. there's nothing special about it. the developers should really rethink their doing and start to focus on efficiency again.
they're all getting lazy....

reading such statements makes me angry.

@Frank M: ye, remember these days when we had the possibility to choose whether to install the full game or just some parts of it :D
back then when i had my 800mb (yep, eighthundred megabytes! ;)) it was a pain to play games as i always had to install and uninstall them in order to play different games ;D

[G80]

Hope we can skip the cutscenes then.

[deathman20]

Whew 50gigs... That better be some nice pre-rendered cut-scenes on the disk otherwise wow.

I know what was it Resistance was a large game as well taking like 20-23Gigs.

[GAR]

man, PS3 is going to kick some ARSE in the coming year, i think 2008 and 2009 will be a big year for sony.

[MaxxxRacer]

That has to be uncompressed. Slap some compression on that game and it will fit just fine i bet.

[Yukon Trooper]

Just poor compiling and compression. I'm sure they'll be making things more efficient before release.

[KoHaN69]

MGS never used prerendered cutscenes!

Who the hell needs prerendered cut-scenes?

I'm betting it's the audio - every location has its music and the codec conversations are probably at least 20,000 hours :p:

Procedural texturing doesn't pay off.
Programmers cost much more than artists ;)

[v_rr]

man, PS3 is going to kick some ARSE in the coming year, i think 2008 and 2009 will be a big year for sony.

Your astrological powers seem very impressive :eek:

[n-sanity]

I saw a live interview a few months back on the issue; this has been said before.

As stated by the project manager, they use uncompressed hd audio in actual surround for every voice, every sound, every shell casing :)

This i bet is 35-40 of that 50 gigs. Game better be good, and the PC better see it come.

[GAR]

Your astrological powers seem very impressive :eek:

I dont get it, are you trying to be smart?

[sjohnson]

It's no longer cost-effective to do things efficiently; why take the time to write things properly when we have so much processing power/storage to throw around? :shakes:This is the same old stuff IT has been saying for almost 20 years now.

Hardware costs go down while performance goes up.

Software costs remain a relative constant.

So managers drive all development toward inefficient code generation because software development is expensive and "hardware will make up for it."

A side effect of this is that talented coders don't want to waste their talent on mass-production. So, the industry loses many of its best and brightest, replaced by lessor coders driven by money, not desire.

[KoHaN69]

Game better be good, and the PC better see it come.

MGS3 wasn't even released yet.

Probably because MGS2 was a very poor-selling, and poor port. (No AA, impossible to play with keyboard+mouse)

[Warship]

I find it amazing that I'm the only one reacting to the "procedural textures" comment.

[Gen]

All the more content they can squeeze in the better :)

Game better be good, and the PC better see it come.

I won't be buying a BR drive until media prices come down. That being said maybe they will release it on dual dvd?

Maybe with 30+gb games it will thwart pirating?

[Yukon Trooper]

Maybe with 30+gb games it will thwart pirating?
:rofl:

Definitely not. Especially as bandwidth becomes cheaper and cheaper.

[Frank M]

back then when i had my 800mb (yep, eighthundred megabytes! ;)) it was a pain to play games as i always had to install and uninstall them in order to play different games ;D

Yeah, good old days... erm wait, that wasn't good. That sucked. :D
Been there, done that. Looks like we'll be doing it again soon :D (:down: )

Your astrological powers seem very impressive :eek:

:D They won this format war, though, so it might be a good year for them..

I find it amazing that I'm the only one reacting to the "procedural textures" comment.

It clearly isn't utilised here. Would be much better if they implemented it
in games - but that costs the coders time, which is money, etc :rolleyes:


As stated by the project manager, they use uncompressed hd audio in actual surround for every voice, every sound, every shell casing :)


*slams head into keyboard*
This is a game, dammit, not an audiophile-quality orchestra recording!
People wouldn't notice the difference if it was just 256kbps mp3.
Bah idiots :shakes:

[Gen]

:rofl:

Definitely not. Especially as bandwidth becomes cheaper and cheaper.

Depends on where you live. Here in central Canada prices have been stagnant for 5years+ with the best provider being provincially owned.

I suppose it wouldn't in the end anyways, all you would need to do is compress the audio/video.

[3lfk1ng]

I heard that Age of Conan will use 32gb. No confirmation from Funcom and still no competition to Hideo Kojima's article.

AoC is the first mmo to utilize all 4 cores and use Dx10.
Also supports full 7.1 surround sound.

[XS Janus]

I really hope they aren't stupid enough to try and convince people this is needed and believe their game will not be pirated.
LOL, 5$ BD DL FTW!

And on another note, a game this stupid in size will have to be played with a buzzing BD in the drive, driving us insane.

It better offer more gameplay than the duration of cutscenes. Although by the looks of it we will just fill in some short blanks within the story line and be don with the whole thing in 3h :D

[Origin_Unknown]

Oblivion is big, but takes only 4,5gb harddisk space.

my oblivion folder is about 12gb without the quarl's texture pack :D

[Frank M]

I heard that Age of Conan will use 32gb.

If this is the shape of things to come... uh-oh...

I really hope they aren't stupid enough to try and convince people this is needed and believe their game will not be pirated.
LOL, 5$ BD DL FTW!

Nah, that'll need an expensive BR-drive.
Cheap HDDs FTW!

[xoqolatl]

I find it amazing that I'm the only one reacting to the "procedural textures" comment.

I find it amazing too :D

Source engine had procedural materials in early stages but support was scrapped in final version that shipped with H-L2.
And about games taking much space: my Steam folder takes 46 GB... it's on a partition of it's own :eek:

[Hornet331]

I saw a live interview a few months back on the issue; this has been said before.

As stated by the project manager, they use uncompressed hd audio in actual surround for every voice, every sound, every shell casing :)

This i bet is 35-40 of that 50 gigs. Game better be good, and the PC better see it come.

if its really only the sound and the sound is 35-40 gb, they should use some compression for it... like Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD.

[kiwi]

my oblivion folder is about 12gb without the quarl's texture pack :D

My UT2k4 folder was 20GB, no joke :) I had 100s of custom maps installed :D Still it is 2k4, very old game actually

[Polizei]

Yeah I read somewhere that MGS4 will include over 4hourse of ingame cutscenes :shocked:

Man, those dumb intro videos for BF2 are bad enough. I deleted those so it sends me straight to the log in screen.

I hate cut scene videos... just let me shoot people already.

[boqonx]

Well, i say make them 2-3 BD that should be the easiest workaround. We've seen some 360 games fit into multiple DVDs as well so i don't see any reason why they can't do that on PS3.

[Kunaak]

whys everyone getting down on the game being uncompressed?

isnt one of the best points of having so much space, that you can finally play games faster, since they arent always having to stall due to decompressing?

[Metroid]

whys everyone getting down on the game being uncompressed?

isnt one of the best points of having so much space, that you can finally play games faster, since they arent always having to stall due to decompressing?

Well it depends. Cell is just a too strong CPU power decoding.

Source (http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20050425/104149/?ST=english)

It makes easier to developers. So more space helps them to add heavy uncompressed contents and leaves it to the CPU to do its job.

Metroid.

[Envydia007]

why cant they make it like COD4 , that looks good, runs good and plays good without too much of a disc requirement.

[Metroid]

why cant they make it like COD4 , that looks good, runs good and plays good without too much of a disc requirement.

Copyrights!!

Other than that is Activision after all. Play fair the game.

COD4 is a AAA game != MGS4 AAA+

Kojima has a great responsability of doing a good job as this has had a great impact last year when he said MGS4 would be a PS3 exclusive title. They would never do something that would look like like any other game.

Metroid.

[Soulburner]

Man, those dumb intro videos for BF2 are bad enough. I deleted those so it sends me straight to the log in screen.

I hate cut scene videos... just let me shoot people already.
So you don't like movies then? You don't have much control during those.

I'm all for it. I'm sure there will be plenty of balance between cinema and action ;)

[bf2142lol]

I dont get it, are you trying to be smart?

I get It, your a egotystical jealous loser that gets offended/threatened when someone says something even remotley smart. There are too many of you scum on this forum, all you bring is negativity. Your the kind of person who will abuse a newbie just for asking questions. You think your better than everyone else, dont attempt to defend yourself, Ive seen your posts. This rant is a little out-of-place but I had to say It, It's been building up for months.

[GAR]

I get It, your a egotystical jealous loser that gets offended/threatened when someone says something even remotley smart. There are too many of you scum on this forum, all you bring is negativity. Your the kind of person who will abuse a newbie just for asking questions. You think your better than everyone else, dont attempt to defend yourself, Ive seen your posts. This rant is a little out-of-place but I had to say It, It's been building up for months.

I see i have a fan, very nice to know you follow my posts. You know what, if you have a problem with me, my AIM is very visable, contact me an we can talk about it. Im not going to get banned for losers like you.

Are you trying to act sophisticated with a picture of eazy-e?

[CBONE]

whys everyone getting down on the game being uncompressed?

I think people are ragging on them because it's the newest lame badge of PS3 honor to claim that your game needs more than 50GB to be fully realized. I figure that if it comes within 20GB of that it's due to duplication of uncompressed data across the disk to make up for the slow 2X drive. There's no reason that lossless compression algorithms couldn't be used. Metal Gear has never been groundbreaking in terms of textures or graphical complexity and I doubt that it's going to be a super intensely complex sonic tour de force either.

isnt one of the best points of having so much space, that you can finally play games faster, since they arent always having to stall due to decompressing?

Nope. The games are still slow to load. Developers are still needing to gin up reasons to waste so much space.

[Polizei]

So you don't like movies then? You don't have much control during those.

I'm all for it. I'm sure there will be plenty of balance between cinema and action ;)

I watch a movie to watch a movie.

I play a video game to play a video game. Not watch a movie.

[[XC] leviathan18]

i bet is cut scene and HD audio what take the most of the space

[Kingcarcas]

This is old, this has been used by 360 fanboys on gamespot:p:
I watch a movie to watch a movie.

I play a video game to play a video game. Not watch a movie.
Problem with that is MGS is heavy on the storyline unlike most games.

[Morais]

Well I prefer the gamer using more HD than other resources of my machine (no mention to a certain game :rolleyes: )

[Polizei]

This is old, this has been used by 360 fanboys on gamespot:p:

Problem with that is MGS is heavy on the storyline unlike most games.

I'll be honest and say I've never played an MGS game before, so I wouldn't know.

[Soulburner]

slow 2X drive
See my post here (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=175353) about this. While it isn't going to match the newest DVD drives, it isn't that slow. Plus those are only maximum speeds. A 20x DVD drive rarely, if ever runs at 20x. Average speed comes into play much more often and it's funny how you don't see those numbers...

[Hazaro]

I'll be honest and say I've never played an MGS game before, so I wouldn't know.

Way way way, heavy on the story. They will be having a booklet to explain everything that is going on in MGS4 when you buy the game.

See my post here (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=175353) about this. While it isn't going to match the newest DVD drives, it isn't that slow. Plus those are only maximum speeds. A 20x DVD drive rarely, if ever runs at 20x. Average speed comes into play much more often and it's funny how you don't see those numbers...

Thanks.

[SafeFire]

Sometimes you see games taking 10gb hardisk space, and those games dont even have a big world or long gamestory.
Oblivion is big, but takes only 4,5gb harddisk space. If MGS4 takes 50gb, they dont use good compression.
That's MGS for you right there, no compression at all!
Twas what made the previous games what they are.

Hope we can skip the cutscenes then.
I will personally sit right behind you when you play it, and slap you very hard if you skip the cutscenes.
Metal gear is 90% story, don't take away 90% of a game, ok?

[Decami]

personally, I dont think he knows what he is talking about. That, or they are not being very smart in game design. Even if most of the game were cutscenes theres no way the game is 50gig, and MSG4 of all games to boot. He is either confused or high. I know something about game design, and at the current moment, complaining that 50gig is too little space, is just down right lazyness in design or a stupid comment that spurred from confusion.

But to be honest, when you have 50gig discs you can afford to be lazy I guess, time is money. But complaining that you cant be lazy as much as you want to, is just downright ignorant.

[mashakos]

I find it amazing that I'm the only one reacting to the "procedural textures" comment.
well, not a lot of ppl here know about programming...

Yeah, Spore FTW

[Metroid]

personally, I dont think he knows what he is talking about. That, or they are not being very smart in game design. Even if most of the game were cutscenes theres no way the game is 50gig, and MSG4 of all games to boot. He is either confused or high. I know something about game design, and at the current moment, complaining that 50gig is too little space, is just down right lazyness in design or a stupid comment that spurred from confusion.

But to be honest, when you have 50gig discs you can afford to be lazy I guess, time is money. But complaining that you cant be lazy as much as you want to, is just downright ignorant.

50 GB is not much for it. Probably they will fit into 2 dual discs, that means 100GB. He is the creator and Producer.

well, not a lot of ppl here know about programming...

Yeah, Spore FTW

He is too technical, not even me know about that.

Metroid.

[G80]

That's MGS for you right there, no compression at all!
Twas what made the previous games what they are.


I will personally sit right behind you when you play it, and slap you very hard if you skip the cutscenes.
Metal gear is 90% story, don't take away 90% of a game, ok?


I allways follow the story the first time i play, but do you really want to watch it the third or fourth time you play?

[Kingcarcas]

^ They aren't all the same...........:confused: Really MGS heads into the direction of film.
That's MGS for you right there, no compression at all!
Twas what made the previous games what they are.


I will personally sit right behind you when you play it, and slap you very hard if you skip the cutscenes.
Metal gear is 90% story, don't take away 90% of a game, ok?
I literally LOL :rofl: I just read a thread where a guy was saying he hated Portal and someone said "If i could i would punch you in the face through the computer screen right now" and now this :ROTF: thank you.

[Origin_Unknown]

I get It, your a egotystical jealous loser that gets offended/threatened when someone says something even remotley smart. There are too many of you scum on this forum, all you bring is negativity. Your the kind of person who will abuse a newbie just for asking questions. You think your better than everyone else, dont attempt to defend yourself, Ive seen your posts. This rant is a little out-of-place but I had to say It, It's been building up for months.

that is an absolute shocking scathing attack on GAR and anyother random person on this forum.

[CBONE]

See my post here (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=175353) about this. While it isn't going to match the newest DVD drives, it isn't that slow. Plus those are only maximum speeds. A 20x DVD drive rarely, if ever runs at 20x. Average speed comes into play much more often and it's funny how you don't see those numbers...

I didn't say it was "that slow". It's slow enough that load times and trying to minimize them are still major concerns on the system.

[nemrod]

http://www.dailytech.com/Metal+Gear+Solid+4+Worldwide+Launch+on+June+12/article10891.htm

While the extra storage afforded by Blu-ray Disc often helps transitions between territories, as multiple localizations can exist on the same pressing, the 50GB disc won’t help Metal Gear Solid 4. In fact, the developers may have hit the storage wall, as there will be insufficient storage to fit both the English and Japanese voice tracks on the same disc.

[largon]

Then make 2 different discs? Who cares about jap tracks outside Japan?

[Morais]

Japanese living outside JP?:shrug:

[largon]

Ah, silly me...
:P

[vitaminc]

since when is it hard to fill up extra capacities with junk?

[XS Janus]

^True.
They could allways encode scenes in 30000 bitrate to prevent piracy.
:D

[G80]

^ They aren't all the same...........:confused: Really MGS heads into the direction of film.

I literally LOL :rofl: I just read a thread where a guy was saying he hated Portal and someone said "If i could i would punch you in the face through the computer screen right now" and now this :ROTF: thank you.




What?, the cutsenes are different each time you play :rolleyes:


And MGS isnt 10% gameplay if you havent noticed. Thats an arrogant statement and an insult to hideo.

[deathman20]

Then make 2 different discs? Who cares about jap tracks outside Japan?

Because its much cheaper to stamp just 1 disk than 2 seperate ones. Besides then if theres a shortage they can ship 1 countries supply to the country that needs it. Much easier to do it that way.

[largon]

I'd imagine the sales of a japanese version are tiny compared to the rest of the world using english audio and shipping english discs to Japan makes as much sense as japanese discs to the rest of the world.

[Ub3r-L33ch]

Don't worry Xbox fans, blu-ray storage capacity isn't necessary for next-gen games! :rolleyes:

[Shift]

Wow talk about being late.. this is already known and I believe he said he wants to put the game on 100gb.

[deathman20]

Don't worry Xbox fans, blu-ray storage capacity isn't necessary for next-gen games! :rolleyes:

Could you make your sig any larger? Please shrink it, it takes up nearly a full screen.

[Yukon Trooper]

Don't worry Xbox fans, blu-ray storage capacity isn't necessary for next-gen games! :rolleyes:
Haha, like clockwork.

Perhaps dual disc releases? With removable hard drives we might see more flexibilty that way as well.

[nemrod]

Haha, like clockwork.

Perhaps dual disc releases? With removable hard drives we might see more flexibilty that way as well.

Or perhaps with a disposable console. Some have big advance in that field :D

[[XC] Lead Head]

This is old, this has been used by 360 fanboys on gamespot:p:

Problem with that is MGS is heavy on the storyline unlike most games.

Make the game tell the story then, not a bunch of annoying cut scenes. Take a look at the half life series, they manage to tell the story without the need of tons of cutscense

[tiro_uspsss]

that is an absolute shocking scathing attack on GAR and anyother random person on this forum.

:yepp: :down:

I dont get it, are you trying to be smart?

no, GAR, he's not trying to be smart - v_rr is just upset that ur opinion conflicts with his opinion - should see the :banana::banana::banana::banana: that happens between him & OBR :rolleyes: - dont say anything negative about AMD/ATi - that'll *really* set him off! :rofl: :up:

[zerotol]

like console games have good stories : that one is just epic hahaahahhaah :rofl: :ROTF:

[Syn.]

He is too technical, not even me know about that.

Metroid.

The only game i know with procedural textures is RoboBlitz, nice fun game. Basically creates textures using maths the first time you load the game.

http://www.steampowered.com/v/index.php?area=game&AppId=4300&cc=GB

[Papu]

the Mgs series are the best things on consoles apart from the final fantasy series
cut scenes are epic and can be skipped
HD METAL GEAR OMG SPOOGESAUCE
i honestly cant wait :D

[OzJustin]

To be honest I'm not that disappointed on the huge game size. Ever since the first MGS game I've always enjoyed just sitting back and watching the cut-scene story develop as my little brother plays the game. I think the whole MGS concept as a series of movies would be fantastic so 50gig worth of HD game videos has me all excited haha. Now I just wish it were a PC title...:(