Broken Prommie Mach II? Opinions please

[Demonic]

Right,

I've had a MachII for a whole week now and today I noticed some liquid lurking on a piece of insulation. The attached picture will give an idea of exactly where.

My question, to those in the know about such things (Bowman, Dude etc.), is whether you think my Prommie has a fault or not?

I did also notice that the evap temperature was only showing as -26C. Apart from that (and the rather poor Windows Control software that doesn't seem to work without a firmware reload) all is well.


So, opinions please. I don't really want to send this thing back to Denmark and will be e-mailing the the same picture (SoBig virus permitting).


Thanks in advance.


PS. Apologies to Dude and Bowman for mentioning them in person when they don't know me, but you seem the most qualified. Hope I haven't overstepped the mark.

[Demonic]

Doh, guess what I forgot.

:rolleyes:

[TheDude]

Hi Demonic,

I'm honored to be mentioned in the same breath as Bowman. He is Master Poe, I am a lowly grasshopper. :D
Bowman will be better at this but let me ask a couple of questions.
Does the liquid look like it's condensation? Looks kind of oily in pic?
Does it run at -26c with a load or at idle?
Does it make any odd noises?
Do you get any error codes?

Thanks

[Demonic]

Thanks for replying.

The liquid looks and tastes (yes, I did taste it :slobber: ) like water.

It wasn't especially slippery and it didn't smell of anything.

As for the Prommie, it's now back at -37C with the fans on Turbo.

I thought that the coolant would be a gas if it had escaped from the system due to it not being under pressure? Then again, what I know about refrigeration could be summed up in the sentence "It makes stuff cold".

I also found it a little strange that the liquid should be coming from where it is. It seems to be coming from the highest point in that pipe. I don't know if there is a join in the pipe there and I don't want to remove the insulation on the pipe until Chip-Con say it's OK to do so. Surely condensation would have flowed down the pipe and come out of the bottom of the insulation?

There doesn't seem to be any more coming out but the area does feel cold to the touch and a little damp. But that could just be from the previous leak?

As for the PC, it's running fine. For what it's worth, MBM shows a CPU temp of 11C but that is with almost 2v running thru it so I can live with that.


Once again, thanks for the reply.

[TheDude]

Is the hose pressing against the housing behind it? If the housing is hot and the hose is cold, you could be getting condensation there.

[Demonic]

The hose doesn't seem to be touching anything behind. It does run around the top of the compressor so there is heat close by, but not touching from what I can see.

The insulation around the hose is flattened where it has been pressing against the side panel and at one point (about 5mm long) the insulation appears to be stuck to the pipe. I can "spin" the insulation elsewhere along the tube but not at this point. Also, the insulation feels very thin at this point, as if highly compressed. This is where the fluid is coming from.

I have wiped the area clean and more liquid does appear. If this were a coolant leak would it be showing as a liquid or would it become a gas?


So many questions, so little time, so much worry.
:confused:

[TheDude]

It contains liquid and gas. You may be able to fix it by wrapping some insulation around the spot that is compressed. I buy a foam insulation tape at my local ac and heat shop for $12 a 30 foot roll.

When you wipe it clean and it comes back....does it come back right when you clean it or after you run it for a while?

If it's an actual leak, the insulation won't help, but if it's condensation it will.

[TheDude]

Here's a pic of what it looks like:

[Demonic]

I may have some thick foam insulation in the garage, left over from where I insulated some heating pipes. I would put some on but I may just hide the problem doing that.

I am itching to cut the insulation off the tube so that I can see the full extent of the problem. However, I don't want to risk invalidating my warranty so I'd best wait until Chip-Con get back to me. :(

Have you come across cases of condensation forming on these tubes before btw?

[TheDude]

Have you come across cases of condensation forming on these tubes before btw?

Yes, but not in my prommie and usually it has been compressed by something pressing against it. Bowman will be in here later, he may have some suggestions, he's the master of phasechange.

[Demonic]

What would the R134a do if dropped in water?

I'm thinking of leaving it until I can get a decent droplet of whatever it is. Then I'm gonna drop it in a glass of water and see if it mixes with the water or not.

Alternatively, if I were to switch the Prommie off, would there still be coolant in that area of the tube? If there is and it still leaks, it would disprove the condensation theory.

[bowman1964]

well i doubt it is leaking refrigerant,because it would lose its cooling very fast.and yes a oily leak is a sure fire sign of a leak,the oil is the ester oil leaking out with the gas.
but lucky for you i dont think it is.
if it is oil thou you have a problem,the pic looks like oil but oil will stay oily looking and condensation will dry off and you wont be able to tell its there in a hour or 2.

now the new mach II use a differant approch to keeping condensation down.which i am not in complete agreance with, although it does a good job.they have the normal heating elements in the head (which i have never seen one so hot as the mach II are,it will get so hot you can not keep you hand on it)but they are running a resistor wire(heater) around the return line from the cooling head to the front of the compressor.there is a plug with a red wire harness plugged in.this is the heater and this is how far it heats to.after this to the compressor there is no heater,which i didnt think they needed one.
but seams yous is getting condensation in the tube over the compressor and running out of the nearest hole(your pic)
if itis leaking there it can do no harm at all.it will just evaperate in the heat of the case.just insulate some more like my friend TheDude has reconmended

i wouldnt try sending it back because at least you have a working one.the next one maynot be so lucky if the ups man drops it....

[Demonic]

Thanks for the reply.

I will ask Chip-Con if I can remove and re-attach the insulation so that I can put my mind at rest. If they say "No" then I'll send it back to them and make them send me a new one. ;)

I must confess that, even with my very limited knowledge, I had kind of talked myself out of it being a leak. When I wipe the liquid off the insulation there is no sign left of any fluid having been on there. That lead me to believe that the thin layer left was evaporating. With what Dude had said previously about the coolant, I thought that this didn't quite fit in.

I'll keep this thread updated so that any other poor sole who has a heart attack like I did can hopefully put their mind at rest, one way or the other.

As for sending it back, I may as well mail it to the US and get you to mod it for me. A nice 404 charge and some Bowman magic would do nicely. :D

[TheDude]

With what Dude had said previously about the coolant, I thought that this didn't quite fit in.

Not sure I understand this. Could you explain please? Thanks :D

[NyCUndaGrounD]

u can try getting some spray foam and fill that space up.

[Demonic]

Originally posted by TheDude
Not sure I understand this. Could you explain please? Thanks :D

Sorry Dude. I thought that you had said that the coolant became gas at low temperatures but I can't seem to find that you did.

However, my thinking was that as the coolant was out of the system and sitting on the pipe, it would be at a comparably high temperature and thus would not become gas. Therefore if it did evaporate it was unlikely to be coolant (as it had become gaseous at a high temperature) and was more likely to be condensation.

So I was trying to point out that my situation and your advice pointed to it being condensation, not that your advice was rubbish. Apologies if that's how it seemed. :)

Anyway, onto my current situation.

I switched my Prommie off last night, for the first time since I bought it. I checked that there was liquid on the pipe before I went to bed. This morning the insulation is clean, with no sign of there having been any fluid on it. Thus, I think that the fluid was just condensation. If it had been coolant/oil I would have expected to see a stain on the insulation.

I still intend to see what Chip-Con say and remove the insulation for a better look at the tube. I will then need to bend the tube a little so that I can insulate the pipe properly and not have it touch the side panel.

At least I am feeling happier about things now. :D

[TheDude]

Your comment confused me, so I reread the whole post. I feel pretty good about the advice I gave, seems to me I nailed it right on, even taking time to snap a pic of the insulation. Anyway, I'm glad you got it sorted out. :D
:toast:

[Demonic]

Thanks Dude.

Top notch advice from yourself and Bowman. Having read these forums for a while before purchasing my Prommie, there was nowhere else I would go for advice. Just come straight to the experts.

Thanks once again to all who replied.

[TheDude]

Well...I feel good when I get one right because compared to Bowman, I know next to nothing. He works with them every day and see things I don't. I'm just here to try to help with the easier problems and leave Bowman free to do the tough ones. It makes me feel good to think I helped, even in a small way. Your comment :

At least I am feeling happier about things now.
Made my whole day. :D