DDC3.2 Pump Top Shootout! 10 tops tested..

[Martinm210]

Whew...that took some work! Not sure I want to do the same for the DDC2..:confused:

It was alot of fun though and very interesting:yepp:

Here is a link to details with pictures and individual charts on my site (http://www.martinsliquidlab.com/DDC32PumpTopTesting.html).

And the curves:
http://www.martinsliquidlab.com/img/DDC32TDHPumpTopsComparison1.png

Cheers!:cool:
Martin

Update 3-6-08
Some folks were asking about the side inlet performances, so I've completed testing on that. You basically get stock or worse performance using the side inlets, so don't do it if you want the performance advantages of the aftermarket tops.

Update 6-4-08
I've followed up and ran the same testing over the DDC3.1

Full review page is here:
http://www.martinsliquidlab.com/DDC31PumpTopTesting.html

And the curves:
http://www.martinsliquidlab.com/img/DDC31PumpTopsComparison1.png


I've also added some estimated flow rate bar charts on the site if you're interested and an updated flow rate estimator.

[virtualrain]

Let me be the first to say... Awesome work as usual Martin! :clap:

I guess my Alphacool tops with res are not the highest performing :down: The fact is that none of my overclocks are temp limited so I'm not sure what would be gained by using a better top other than bragging rights. However, if (or when) I was to do it over, I would definitely choose the XSPC... Nice!

It's also interesting to note that the (once/still?) highly revered Petra top is just middle of the pack now.

[Martinm210]

Yeah, I probably should add something to the end to explain the whole flow rate vs temperature thing.

An extra couple of gpm really doesn't amount to anything for temps, but it's still fun to tinker and see how they performed.

I also wouldn't switch out tops, but I hope with this we might see a few tweaks to existing top designs...all the better for the community..:up:

[madmaxx]

you continue to amaze :up:

thank you

[NaeKuh]

HEH...

Definitely very nice martin :up:

too bad the 2 in 1 top will max out your meter. :P

[aspire.comptech]

Very interesting results.

Perhaps we might see some revisions in the near future...

[virtualrain]

Yeah, I probably should add something to the end to explain the whole flow rate vs temperature thing.

An extra couple of gpm really doesn't amount to anything for temps, but it's still fun to tinker and see how they performed.

I also wouldn't switch out tops, but I hope with this we might see a few tweaks to existing top designs...all the better for the community..:up:

Yeah, I think you made it clear on your website that a properly designed cooling system would perform admirably with any of the tops you tested... I particularly like how you ranked the pumps for low vs. high flow allowing folks to make intelligent decisions about what might perform best in their particular loop.

One other comment... you rate the Alphacool res top as "excellent" to bleed. I must disagree... it's a PITA even after modding with a bleed screw in the stock cap! LOL!

[Breezyjr]

Yippee, I picked the right top!!!!

The XSPC Top, with the added benefit of BLING! Adding a couple LEDs...

Yeehaw, can't wait to get mine all set up!

Thank Martin for the hard work.

BTW> What pumps to you need for the dual DDC top? I found a couple that are 18W, but manufactured awhile back.. '05 I believe. So, If you need them, yup I have two, let me know.

Take care,
breezyjr

[NaeKuh]

oh sheeznitz...

martin u made a typo on your webpage.

the fin addon can not be used on that xres. i tried, it wont fit. the base diameter is too small to take it. you need to cut a credit card up. :\

http://www.shoppts.com/ekanad.html

wont fit x-res... dont bother buying them.

Martin if u look carefully at my xres you'll notice scratches. That was from me tring to force it down there, but i polish most of it out.

[Martinm210]

HEH...

Definitely very nice martin :up:

too bad the 2 in 1 top will max out your meter. :P

I've got a bid on a 20psi manometer right now, hopefully I'll have the tools to test that one right too soon..:up:

Very interesting results.

Perhaps we might see some revisions in the near future...

I'm hoping so..

Yeah, I think you made it clear on your website that a properly designed cooling system would perform admirably with any of the tops you tested... I particularly like how you ranked the pumps for low vs. high flow allowing folks to make intelligent decisions about what might perform best in their particular loop.

One other comment... you rate the Alphacool res top as "excellent" to bleed. I must disagree... it's a PITA even after modding with a bleed screw in the stock cap! LOL!

Fixed!

I just didn't notice the surface water moving quite as much as the EK, but I really didn't test the bleeding as well as I could have because I had another reservoir in line. I might run three separate tests to do a better job at evaluating bleeding...sounds like it's needed to really get a feel for this.:up:

[Martinm210]

oh sheeznitz...

martin u made a typo on your webpage.

the fin addon can not be used on that xres. i tried, it wont fit. the base diameter is too small to take it. you need to cut a credit card up. :\

http://www.shoppts.com/ekanad.html

wont fit x-res... dont bother buying them.

Martin if u look carefully at my xres you'll notice scratches. That was from me tring to force it down there, but i polish most of it out.

Good to know, I'll go fix that..

Anti-cyclone doesn't fit. I'd probably run a short section of tubing out of the top then and fill it up completely beyond the top of the reservoir..:up:

[NaeKuh]

Good to know, I'll go fix that..

Anti-cyclone doesn't fit. I'd probably run a short section of tubing out of the top then and fill it up completely beyond the top of the reservoir..:up:

well my idea was a Tline. Use one end to bleed the res, the other as a return and use the top as a return. :up:

oh wait.. martin that tube works??? Your kidding me right? on the XSPC res top? OMG SilverTygon tubing in EK res anyone?

http://www.martinsliquidlab.com/img/DDC32-XSPCResTopOutside.jpg

[Martinm210]

well my idea was a Tline. Use one end to bleed the res, the other as a return and use the top as a return. :up:

That would do the trick too:up:

[Martinm210]

oh wait.. martin that tube works??? Your kidding me right? on the XSPC res top? OMG SilverTygon tubing in EK res anyone?

Yeah it works and amazingly well, but it's an acrylic tube.

I've got a video of it running at all flow rates, hardly even moves the surface water.

I would have never thought of the idea myself, very clever..:up:

[NaeKuh]

Yeah it works and amazingly well, but it's an acrylic tube.

I've got a video of it running at all flow rates, hardly even moves the surface water.

I would have never thought of the idea myself, very clever..:up:

but we could reproduce it if we placed a tube down the middle on the ek?

anyone have ideas on how to straighten tubing out quickly? oh wait.. hot water.. nm....

[Jupiler]

Thanks for sharing the results Martin. :up:

About the XSPC res top :

In your conclusion, you stated that you had problems sealing the reservoir and you used the XSPC barbs.
Does this mean that someone would have the same problem if they used EK or DD barbs?
Or would using a bigger O-ring solve this?
Does this apply to the XSPC Laing DDC Top too?

[Vargher Warg]

Thanks for the great work and an interesting read! :clap: :up:

I would love to see some results from a test with the Laing 3.1 10w

While you could find tests on the internet done with the Laing 3.2 18w
It's almost impossible to find tests done with the weaker Laing 3.1 10w

The results I'd be most interested in, would be the results between the
'Alphacool top' and the 'XSPC top'

I'm really interested to know how XSPC top holds up with the Laing 10w

And do you think that the Alphacool top would do a little better
against the rest of the tops with the Laing 3.1 /1-T 10w

Not only I bought the the inferior Laing pump! I also choosed the worst top! :ROTF:

[Meatpuppet]

Wow, just wow. Sorry I don't have anything constructive to add but I just wanted to acknowledge that the effort is much appreciated.

[Tw1st3d]

Wauw!! Nice testing Martin - nice and easier to figure out!

STICKY is a must!

I'm quiet surpised that the XSPC top with resevoir pwns all the others - going to buy when i find a shop in DK there sells it!

Edit: Please test the XSPC Top Res with a 10 watt DDC :D

[Waterlogged]

Awesome work yet again Martin. :up:

I have a question about the Koolance notes though. You sayOnly tested
Center Inlet.
Large step
loss in daul
outlet.
Aluminum!!!
Used D-Tek
Barbs.

By "center inlet", am I correct in guessing that you mean over the rotor? Also, what exactly does "large step loss in dual outlet" mean? I already have one of these tops and I may need to put it on a 3.1 and into a shiates & giggles aluminum loop I'm building if my CSP-mag ever goes bad.


Just noticed you misspelled "dual" in the above.

[NoobCake]

So this Pump : http://www.flabbergast.com.au/mcp355-ddc-top-bundle.html?osCsid=27c3fa58dcd99cca8d13bb122566c13 7

will beat the DDC 3.2 + petras top?

[SafeFire]

That's definitely a keeper :up: Should come in mighty hand when I get round to getting jiggy with some water.

too bad the 2 in 1 top will max out your meter. :P
I've never actually seen that one/those ones in a loop, only seen some shops selling it.
Could you give me some linkage? I'd love to get a scope on how you mount it inside a case/pumps being flipsided.

[septim]

as usual very nice info to be had from Martin. Thank you for your time and effort in putting all results up...

[Xilikon]

Thank you for taking the time do do a full testing of the tops, this is truly a first to list all the tops available in the market. The results is very interesting and this gave me the wish to buy a XPSC top to improve my flow with 3 blocks + SF800.

Even the data and the meanings of the curves is very well explained. I hope most people will understand how this work so they can be able to read the infos.

[voigts]

This info is excellent and a one of a kind. I too however wonder if the same performance would hold true with the DDC3.1 10w as many of use silence freaks prefer it. Very, very good work and thank you for your continued contribution to the watercooling community with your excellent info.

[Martinm210]

Thanks for sharing the results Martin. :up:

About the XSPC res top :

In your conclusion, you stated that you had problems sealing the reservoir and you used the XSPC barbs.
Does this mean that someone would have the same problem if they used EK or DD barbs?
Or would using a bigger O-ring solve this?
Does this apply to the XSPC Laing DDC Top too?

My particular issue was the actual "Cap", the little black plastic cap threading wasn't sealing right for me. This was probably only an issue for me because I also had a big test reservoir feeding the reservoir, so my loop had two openings and because this one wasn't sealing for me static water pressure from the taller reservoir was pushing a drop of water out of the cap when tilted over. The issue with mine I think is hopefully just a fluke, but the acrylic threads weren't deep enough to prevent the cap plastic threading to have enough strength. In a real water cooling loop, having the reservoir cap perfectly sealed isn't that critical if its upright. My own system I don't leave this sealed perfectly because I like a little venting capability. It seems like the system warming and cooling down does enough expansion and contraction to where a little opening to the atmosphere is probably good.

Anyhow, my sample was previously tested, so it's possible I just had a slightly damaged thread from the previous user.

The barb threads and everything else was fine, just the little sealing issue on the res cap.

Thanks for the great work and an interesting reed! :clap: :up:

I would love to some results from a testing with the Laing 3.1 10w

While you could find tests on the internet done with the Laing 3.2 18w
It's almost impossible to find tests done with the weaker Laing 3.1 10w

The results I'd be most interested in, would be the results between the
'Alphacool top' and the 'XSPC top'

I'm really interested to know how XSPC top hold's up with the Laing 10w

And do you think that the Alphacool top would do a little better
against the rest of the tops with the Laing 3.1 /1-T 10w

Not only I bought the the inferior Laing pump! I also choosed the worst top! :ROTF:

I think one of my DDC2's is actually a DDC1, but that's probably going to be a little different result.

I could test a DDC3.1 if I had one, but I don't. I could probably undervolt my DDC3.2 to simulate a 3.1 though...hmmm

Awesome work yet again Martin. :up:

I have a question about the Koolance notes though. You say

By "center inlet", am I correct in guessing that you mean over the rotor? Also, what exactly does "large step loss in dual outlet" mean? I already have one of these tops and I may need to put it on a 3.1 and into a shiates & giggles aluminum loop I'm building if my CSP-mag ever goes bad.


Just noticed you misspelled "dual" in the above.

Yes, I only tested the Koolance top and the DD top with the inlet barb centered over the rotor to eliminate the 90 degree bend. Reintroducing the 90 degree bend on the inlet by using the side inlets can be seen by looking at the alphacool regular top to reservoir top results. It would give you a little boost in pressure for extremely restrictive systems, but it would also hurt flow quite a bit and do much worse for average to low restriciton systems.

The large step loss I mean is the Koolance top outlet threading hole. It intersects the normal outlet and creats a pretty sharp and big cavity that likely adds some loss there. Koolance used pretty big ports so when they created dual inlet and dual outlet options, it creates some added restriction. Pumps for some reason are even more sensetive to little restrictions than other parts of the loop.

Fixed the dual, thanks!

All of the tops did really well, I consider them all a very very good improvement over the stock pump top...:clap:

[Razor_Blade]

For the love of everything that is holy, STICKY!!!!! Thanks Martin, you are an animal!

[InfamousChu]

Awesome Write up! Great for new WC enthusiast like me! very easy to understand and straight forward! Please Sticky!

[Vargher Warg]

I think one of my DDC2's is actually a DDC1, but that's probably going to be a little different result.

I could test a DDC3.1 if I had one, but I don't. I could probably undervolt my DDC3.2 to simulate a 3.1 though...hmmm

Pretty please! :cheer: :eleph: :cheer:

I know that a lot of people are interested in having a more silent H2O system
and you would be doing us a great favor, and I know the results would
be much appreciated for a silent freak as myself!

So don't feel any pressure! ;) but the results would be hailed as a holy script
by the 'silent community' for years to come! :D

Thanks again for the great efforts you make for the WC community! :up: :clap:

[IanY]

well my idea was a Tline. Use one end to bleed the res, the other as a return and use the top as a return. :up:

oh wait.. martin that tube works??? Your kidding me right? on the XSPC res top? OMG SilverTygon tubing in EK res anyone?



Hey Naekuh,

Just a tip. Look at the Alphacool Melvin pipe for their Cape Bullseye reservoir. I think it would even look better.

[Petra]

It's also interesting to note that the (once/still?) highly revered Petra top is just middle of the pack now.

Considering that I haven't made any substantial changes to the design in well over a year, it's not all that surprising. We'll see how long that lasts, though... ;)

Anyway, great job Martin! :)

[aspire.comptech]

I see an evil twinkle in Alex's eye... :P

[Waterlogged]

The large step loss I mean is the Koolance top outlet threading hole. It intersects the normal outlet and creats a pretty sharp and big cavity that likely adds some loss there. Koolance used pretty big ports so when they created dual inlet and dual outlet options, it creates some added restriction. Pumps for some reason are even more sensetive to little restrictions than other parts of the loop.

That's kind of what I thought you were talking about, but wanted to make sure. Thanks again for your time and for the review. :up:

[Soulman84]

grat job Martin:up:

what can you tell me about oclabs xptop? i'm trying to know the real power of this top compare to the others:)

[JoeBar]

Great info! :clap:

[GAM]

Excellent work Martin! :thumbsup:

The last week or so I've been searching for these comparisons only to find one or two compared here or there. This is great info.

Cheers
GAM

[Janno]

dayum!
if i had seen this before, i'd have ordered an xspc top instead... to see how well it performs :P

nice work with this highly anticipated test :up:

[BrokeDown]

Great work! I love that XSPC res. Been thinking about getting it when I go SLI.

[SiGfever]

Excellent work as always Martin. :clap: :clap:

[InfamousChu]

Considering that I haven't made any substantial changes to the design in well over a year, it's not all that surprising. We'll see how long that lasts, though... ;)

Anyway, great job Martin! :)

Cant wait Petra!

[Martinm210]

Pretty please! :cheer: :eleph: :cheer:

I know that a lot of people are interested in having a more silent H2O system
and you would be doing us a great favor, and I know the results would
be much appreciated for a silent freak as myself!

So don't feel any pressure! ;) but the results would be hailed as a holy script
by the 'silent community' for years to come! :D

Thanks again for the great efforts you make for the WC community! :up: :clap:

I'll see what I can do about simulating with a DDC 3.1. I think somewhere around 10V will be close, I'll compare a stock undervolted curve to a DDC3.1 curve and tweak voltage until it's close. I already get enough wierd looks from my wife about all my testing stuff. Kind of hard to explain buying another pump when I've got three D5, a DDC3.2, a DDC2, and a DDC1 lying around.

We'll see how long that lasts, though... ;)

Anyway, great job Martin! :)

Whoohoo! I'm seeing the bar raised another notch already and in Delrin style!!:up:

[Petra]

I'll see what I can do about simulating with a DDC 3.1.

The DDC-3.1 and 3.2 are the same pump, really--just mod your 3.2 to be able to switch back and fourth (yes, it really is that simple). PM me if you want me to dig up the mod.

[Boogerlad]

don't you just have to add a bigger solder blob to ddc 3.1 to turn it into a ddc 3.2?

[Petra]

don't you just have to add a bigger solder blob to ddc 3.1 to turn it into a ddc 3.2?

Yes, you're just bridging two solder pads to turn the 3.1 into a 3.2 (and breaking the connection to go backward). To make the pump easily interchangeable, simply rig up a switch to open and close the connection between the pads.

[Martinm210]

Ahh...I see it now. That's easy. I heard about that with the older pumps, I just didn't think they are still doing it. Thanks!!

I see both my old orange impeller DDC2 and black impeller DDC2 both are not bridged, so I'm wondering if they are both the 10watt versions...
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/2195/ddcimpellersks1.jpg

[SparkyJJO]

the black impeller and orange impeller pumps you cannot switch back and forth, they are two separate pumps with different electronics.

The blue impellered pump is either 10W or 18W depending on whether the bridge is there, they both use the same circuitry otherwise. That one you can switch back and forth.

And BTW, the black impellered one is a 9W, orange is 18W. 10W is only for the blue impeller pump in the non-bridged connection mode, bridged is 18W.

[Martinm210]

the black impeller and orange impeller pumps you cannot switch back and forth, they are two separate pumps with different electronics.

The blue impellered pump is either 10W or 18W depending on whether the bridge is there, they both use the same circuitry otherwise. That one you can switch back and forth.

And BTW, the black impellered one is a 9W, orange is 18W. 10W is only for the blue impeller pump in the non-bridged connection mode, bridged is 18W.

Ok, thanks!
This is what they look like on the back side. The orange impeller also isn't bridged, but I can see it on the blue DDC3.2.

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/6356/ddcmotorsxa0.jpg

[NaeKuh]

grat job Martin:up:

what can you tell me about oclabs xptop? i'm trying to know the real power of this top compare to the others:)

lol... i was thinkn about sending him this, however it was in use at the time when i loaned him my parts. :\

Its suposed to be a little lower then the XSPC, however its almost half the price. :T


Maybe if martin has time i'll pull the pump from the rig, and mail the top to him. Martin u down for 1 more test with this top?
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p73/aigomorla/IMG_0856.jpg

[ChaosMinionX]

Great job on the review Martin :up: :up:

Lots of helpful info in that.

Considering that I haven't made any substantial changes to the design in well over a year, it's not all that surprising. We'll see how long that lasts, though... ;)

Anyway, great job Martin! :)

Cant wait to see it Petra :)

[Trice]

Where can one buy the resevoir XSPC in the states?

[Tw1st3d]

Where can one buy the resevoir XSPC in the states?

http://www.xspc.biz/retailers.php <- frozencpu and performancepc

[Martinm210]

lol... i was thinkn about sending him this, however it was in use at the time when i loaned him my parts. :\

Its suposed to be a little lower then the XSPC, however its almost half the price. :T


Maybe if martin has time i'll pull the pump from the rig, and mail the top to him. Martin u down for 1 more test with this top?
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p73/aigomorla/IMG_0856.jpg

They are supposed to send me one when they become available. I'll test it if it comes in, but I appreciate the offer!.:up:

Where can one buy the resevoir XSPC in the states?

It's brand new so it may just not be showing yet. They were just finishing up some redesigns on the reservoir when they sent me this sample so it's pretty new.

[ANP !!!]

Nice job there :). Gives a very clear Idea of all the tops.

[alo]

Martin, get some more nice words in your address! ;)
You are just great as always! :up:

+1 sticky!!

And +1 for DDC3.1 test! Just do the bridge mod for your DDC3.2...
I'm also the one who bought one of the weakest tops (Alphacool) :( , so may be it will gain revenge on a 10W version! :cool: And do you plan any mods to tops?

But once again, thanks a lot! :toast:

[ChaosMinionX]

Can the resevoir XSPC be mounted like my current DDC?

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a168/ChaosMinionX/IMGP0600.jpg

I am guessing no.....

[qwerty69]

GJ Martin :clap:

[Statts]

Is this the XSPC top that did so well?

http://www.flabbergast.com.au/laing-ddc-top.html?osCsid=9e9352e8e2f4ab655c906df927101d88

[Tw1st3d]

Is this the XSPC top that did so well?

http://www.flabbergast.com.au/laing-ddc-top.html?osCsid=9e9352e8e2f4ab655c906df927101d88

Yes :)

[Xilikon]

Is this the XSPC top that did so well?

http://www.flabbergast.com.au/laing-ddc-top.html?osCsid=9e9352e8e2f4ab655c906df927101d88

Look at the review link, this go back to the exact same review done by Martinm210 ;)

[NaeKuh]

yeah just scared to see if xspc will bump a price hike in the reservoir now since they know its the best performing top.

[Trice]

http://www.xspc.biz/retailers.php <- frozencpu and performancepc

Thanks, I couldnt find the res version though :(

[Soulman84]

lol... i was thinkn about sending him this, however it was in use at the time when i loaned him my parts. :\

Its suposed to be a little lower then the XSPC, however its almost half the price. :T


Maybe if martin has time i'll pull the pump from the rig, and mail the top to him. Martin u down for 1 more test with this top?


fantastic:D i'll wait and see the results ot the testing sessions:up:

[Statts]

Excellent, looks like I will be ordering a couple of DDC3.2's and XSPC tops (non-res)

[IanY]

Martin/Naekuh,

Do you know if the plastic X-res cap hole can be tapped to G-1/4 or G-3/8 ? Ithink it would be better if one were to use the X-res and yet use a master reservoir that feeds multiple X-Reses. No vortex issues and no bubble issues either. Now, if only Alphacool pump isolation screws would fit the XSPC top, so that they can be mounted in MountainMod HDD carriers...

[MrToad]

Thanks Martin ^^

Great work, as usual :)

[disruptfam]

awesome work this should be a sticky

[Martinm210]

Martin/Naekuh,

Do you know if the plastic X-res cap hole can be tapped to G-1/4 or G-3/8 ? Ithink it would be better if one were to use the X-res and yet use a master reservoir that feeds multiple X-Reses. No vortex issues and no bubble issues either. Now, if only Alphacool pump isolation screws would fit the XSPC top, so that they can be mounted in MountainMod HDD carriers...

I know the top is already tapped G1/4, so you could probably fabricate a tube type feed straight down very similar in style to the XSPC top. You would just need a G1/4 male to male coupler and a piece of clear acrylic that's tapped G 1/4 also. Then another hole in the top for a filler cap. I bet that would eliminate the vortex completely.

Not sure about G3/8 tapping but the G1/4 mod would be easy enough with a tap/drill and a small drill press, you'd just need to order the materials and spend the time doing it.:up:

Anyhow, I'm switching over to some home projects for a little while. I'll come back to this with some follow up DDC3.1 testing, but these will have to do for now. Considering the DDC3.1 is the same exact pump as the DDC 3.2 only lower voltage, I would expect the results to be similar on a reduced scale.

DDC2's and older pumps however would be a completely different scenario. The larger inlet on those pumps would make the relative performance very different. I would not recommend at all to assume performance would be similar with DDC2 pumps. The would likely favor a larger inlet type of design to better match the impeller size. The DDC2 has a 12mm inlet, and the DDC3.2 only 9mm.

[NaeKuh]

Martin/Naekuh,

Do you know if the plastic X-res cap hole can be tapped to G-1/4 or G-3/8 ? Ithink it would be better if one were to use the X-res and yet use a master reservoir that feeds multiple X-Reses. No vortex issues and no bubble issues either. Now, if only Alphacool pump isolation screws would fit the XSPC top, so that they can be mounted in MountainMod HDD carriers...

but but but...

*Taking a running start so iany cant :slap:*

You couldnt have dual colors... if you did it that way....

okey now i need to run b4 he kicks my butt! :rofl:

[Xilikon]

Martin, I'm now splitting my loop in two to add 2 mosfets blocks. To do this, I need to buy a 2nd pump and due to the space constraint (the pump will be installed under the PA120.3 radiator to keep the tubing short), I cannot get a aftermarket top with a top inlet.

So far, the only aftermarket blocks with side inlet would be the Koolance and Alphacool. However, I know that having a 90 degree bend in the inlet will reduce the performance a lot so I'm wondering if it's still a good idea to get a Alphacool or just use the stock top (it's not a problem since I use 3/8" ID tubing anyway) ?

[Martinm210]

Martin, I'm now splitting my loop in two to add 2 mosfets blocks. To do this, I need to buy a 2nd pump and due to the space constraint (the pump will be installed under the PA120.3 radiator to keep the tubing short), I cannot get a aftermarket top with a top inlet.

So far, the only aftermarket blocks with side inlet would be the Koolance and Alphacool. However, I know that having a 90 degree bend in the inlet will reduce the performance a lot so I'm wondering if it's still a good idea to get a Alphacool or just use the stock top (it's not a problem since I use 3/8" ID tubing anyway) ?

The DD top also has a side inlet. I'm not really sure what the side inlet performance differences are, but I think any of the aftermarket tops will still give you a good gain in average to low restriction loops over the stock top.

Personal preference of mine, but I will not "at all costs" run aluminum in my own loop, so it would be either the DD or the alphacool.

The DD top had a really good shape to the curve, which I still don't quite understand, but it was different than all the rest. The only real obvious difference was that it used a purely circular volute without any relief cut and also used a small/average outlet port size.

Let me see about running a test on the side inlets, that particular question/need is likely to come up for someone else also. I'll be back later with some info on side inlet performance..:up:

[coolmiester]

Not sure which DDC version this was but i tested both ways some time ago using a standard Alphacool Top and found the following...

Laing DDC-1Plus With Alphacool Plexi Top ½” Barbs (top mount inlet - side mount outlet) = 14.5 LPM (3.83 US Gallons /PM)

Laing DDC-1Plus With Alphacool Plexi Top ½” Barbs (side mount inlet & outlet) = 9.7 LPM (2.56 US Gallons /PM)


Obviously not as accurate as Martins findings but its still quite a sacrifice to go side inlet as appose to top.

[iadstudio]

Considering that I haven't made any substantial changes to the design in well over a year, it's not all that surprising. We'll see how long that lasts, though... ;)

Anyway, great job Martin! :)

If you make a clear one on top of it, I think you'll have a lock on the market. ;)

Can the resevoir XSPC be mounted like my current DDC?

I am guessing no.....

They have a stand at performance PCS that will do just that, so I'm assuming so.

[Xilikon]

The DD top also has a side inlet. I'm not really sure what the side inlet performance differences are, but I think any of the aftermarket tops will still give you a good gain in average to low restriction loops over the stock top.

Personal preference of mine, but I will not "at all costs" run aluminum in my own loop, so it would be either the DD or the alphacool.

The DD top had a really good shape to the curve, which I still don't quite understand, but it was different than all the rest. The only real obvious difference was that it used a purely circular volute without any relief cut and also used a small/average outlet port size.

Let me see about running a test on the side inlets, that particular question/need is likely to come up for someone else also. I'll be back later with some info on side inlet performance..:up:

Oh, I missed the DD one so it's a interesting option. I would like to see some data versus the stock top to judge if it is worth the extra performance :up:

Don't worry about the Koolance top, i'm just stating the availables options, not that I will ever approach aluminium with a 100 ft pole ;)

[ChaosMinionX]

If you make a clear one on top of it, I think you'll have a lock on the market. ;)



They have a stand at performance PCS that will do just that, so I'm assuming so.

Oh nice, I will have to check it out.

[Martinm210]

Well before I do that testing I had to explore efficiency of pumps a bit more, this is what I found:

First adding in a new updated over/undervolting chart with power consumption on the right for those wondering about over/undervolting the pump
http://www.martinsliquidlab.com/img/DDC32-StockOverUnderVoltRes.png

Then my digging on efficiency curves and equations and I probably should have represented those curves in a percent efficency comparison. They will look the same relatively, but I thought it was interesting to also see the percent efficiency.

I already have all the data, just would need to calculate the brake horsepower and then use the ratio between the two for efficiency. This may also be handy in estimating actual heat dump.

http://www.airlinktransformers.com/faq.asp?q=9
http://www.ajdesigner.com/phppump/pump_equations_water_horse_power.php
BHP (Brake Horsepower) = (Watts) X .00134
WHP (Water Horsepower) = ((Flow GPM) X (Pressure Feet)) /3960
N (Efficiency) = WHP/BHP

The stock top has a maximum peak efficiency of only 13% @ 1.1gpm
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/8716/ddc32stockefficiencytr2.png
The XSPC reservoir top has a maximum peak efficiency of 22% at 1.9GPM
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/2272/ddc32xspcrestopefficienbp8.png

I guess that helps explain the "Heat Dump" issue we're always talking about, small pumps just are not very efficient. Even the DDC3.2 which is a bit more efficient than others losses a good 80-90% of it's power consumption through heat. Part of that would leave through the pump case, but a majority would enter the coolant.

I guess one small but interesting added benefit of the pump tops, you get a little less heat dump to produce the same amount of water energy.

stock DDC3.2 at 1.5GPM consumes 17.3 watts, it's 11.5% efficient there, so it wastes 15.3 watts in heat.


XSPC res DDC3.2 at 1.5 GPM consumes 17.05 watts, it's 20.9% efficient, so it wastes 13.5 watts in heat.

Not really anything to consider significant though, and your pressure drops across the system will add in that water energy heat anyhow.

But think of the .25 watts in your power consumption savings, you could buy a lollypop at the end of the year!..:D

[Meatpuppet]

They have a stand at performance PCS that will do just that, so I'm assuming so.

The pump stand/bracket is made for the non-res version of this pump. It should be fairly intuitive to see that the reservoir bleeds through the res cap and not the feed tube. As such, orienting the reservoir on it's side would present some very apparent difficulties.

[Martinm210]

Some folks were asking about the side inlet performances, so I've completed testing on that.

http://www.martinsliquidlab.com/img/DDC32SideInletPQcomparison.png

So in the 1 GPM or high restriction range, the ranking is Alphacool, then Stock top, then Danger Den, then Koolance. In the average restriction range of 1.5 they are ranking is Koolance, Alphacool, Stock, Danger Den. And the low restriction 2 GPM range, the ranking is Koolance, Alphacool, Stock, Danger Den. In the end, I can't help but strongly recommend against using the side inlets for these tops, you end up loosing most of the performance advatage over the stock top. The Koolance top is the only one to provide any performance benefit and it only occurs in a very low restriction loop. In a high restriction loop, the stock top outperforms the Koolance top. The Alphacool is the only top to pretty much match or very very slightly exceed performance of the stock top without loosing significant performance in one area or another. The side inlets loose much of their performance advatage due to sharp and abrupt changes in conduit diameter. There is typically a very sharp reduction in cross section to accomodate the G1/4 barb to the side inlet port and another sharp elbow type loss where this side inlet port enters the main chamber.

One interesting note is the Alphacool reservoir top had the same barb orientation, yet again we had better performance with the reservoir and it's ability to minimize negative pressure at the inlet side of the pump. Same occurrence with the XSPC reservoir top vs the standard top. The reservoir tops are showing their advantage in minimizing inlet negative pressure.

Bottom line...don't use the side inlets unless you absolutely have to.:down:

[Xilikon]

Thank you a lot for doing this testing. This helped me decide that I will stick to the stock top since it's not worth the expense (the pump will be used in a mosfets/chipset loop only so it's not a biggie with about 1.27 GPM from the estimator including the SF800).

To get the benefit of a aftermarket top while being able to tube in a restricted height situation, I would need to get a aftermarket top with top inlet and a good elbow.

[Martinm210]

Thank you a lot for doing this testing. This helped me decide that I will stick to the stock top since it's not worth the expense (the pump will be used in a mosfets/chipset loop only so it's not a biggie with about 1.27 GPM from the estimator including the SF800).

To get the benefit of a aftermarket top while being able to tube in a restricted height situation, I would need to get a aftermarket top with top inlet and a good elbow.

I should probalby run one more test with some elbows mounted on the center inlet. I think a derlin elbow with a male to male fitting will do better than any of the side inlet setups.

That was a test case someone mentioned before I started all this testing anyhow. I need to work up a quick G1/4 coupler first and I'll test with a DD delrin 90. Maybe try a T experiment also...

[Statts]

By 'side inlet' you mean a 90deg elbow on the inlet? as opposed to straight barbs like most people use?

[Statts]

Oh I see what you mean, the tops listed have both top AND side inlet ports, got ya! Just ignore my posts :D

[Boogerlad]

is the ddc 3.2 at 12.95 volts more efficient than the alphacool ap1510 at 24 volts?

[Martinm210]

Curves are now added into the estimator::up:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=151627

You can try out the AP1510 at different voltages and these pump tops and see for yourself..:D

[Vargher Warg]

:woot: Another interesting update! :clap: thanks Martin! :up:

Can't wait to see the results from a test with the Alphacool and XSPC tops at 10w (DDC 3.1)

[Martinm210]

:woot: Another interesting update! :clap: thanks Martin! :up:

Can't wait to see the results from a test with the Alphacool and XSPC tops at 10w (DDC 3.1)

Thanks, I'll be working on that pretty soon. I have a few other parts I want to test, then I'll be back on the 3.1 tests.:up:

I should also have a couple more tops to test and throw into the mix.:up:

I figured since a large number of folks use these pumps, I'd take my time and eventually get it all tested.

[twwen2]

Curves are now added into the estimator::up:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=151627

You can try out the AP1510 at different voltages and these pump tops and see for yourself..:D

Thanks heaps Martin, i was just gonna ask for that! I think everyone really appreciates the hard work you do around here:up:

[GAM]

More very interesting information regarding side inlets on these tops. Hmmm.

I don't know whether it has been mentioned, included or scheduled in the next round of tests, but I'd be interested to see how the DD Pump Top Reservoir performs. Danger Den brought one recently although I don't have any yet.

Keep up the excellent work!

Cheers
GAM

[alo]

Thanks a lot Matrin!!!

You are doing an invaluable job! Once again thanks! :toast:

I'm joining to the waiting for a DDC3.1 results! ;)

[Martinm210]

grat job Martin:up:

what can you tell me about oclabs xptop? i'm trying to know the real power of this top compare to the others:)

Sorry I missed your question earlier.

I have been in contact with OClabs for a sample.

Early last week they said they were currently out of stock for about a week and would be sending me a sample of their new black color top.

Bitspower is also sending me one to test, and the good folks at http://www.watercoolingshop.com/ are sending me some G 3/8" barbs so I can finally get that EK G3/8" top tested.

So if all goes well, I'll have 3-4 more tops to add into this..:up:

[Jupiler]

A quick note from me regarding the XSPC tops (both normal and with reservoir) and the barbs used.

I ordered 2 normal XSPC tops (8.50€/each) and the res top and got them yesterday.

As I have 6x 1/2" EK and 6x 1/2" DD barbs laying around, I wanted to check if they fitted nicely in the G 1/4" threads. Normally they should (at least, that's what I expected).

Unfortunately, I ran into problems when I tried the barbs.

Dangerden barbs :

I bought about 12 pieces from PTS last year and 6 of them are in use in my several WC rigs.
When I tried to twist the first barb into the thread, it blocked after only 1 full turn. I found this weird, took the barb back out and tried again. Same thing, wouldn't turn in.
Tried it in the other thread of the top but same problem, could do 2 turns and then it blocked.
Same thing with 4 other barbs and the 2 tops and res top, they simply wouldn't fit.

Only 1 barb would turn in into the threads of the 3 tops.
One other barb would fit into 1 top but not in the 2 others.
Weird, if you ask me.

EK barbs :

No problems with all 6 of them on the 3 tops, they fitted nicely.

I then decided to check if the DD barbs would fit into the Alphacool and PTS tops.
No problems whatsoever with all threads of the tops.

I don't know what to think of this.
Were the G1/4" threads on the tops not properly tapped in by XSPC, so they might give problems with certain barbs?

Or is there something wrong with the G1/4" thread from the DD fittings?
I don't see why there should be something wrong with the DD barbs, as they fit without problems in the Alphacool and PTS tops.

Think I'll be using the EK fittings with the tops.

[Martinm210]

A quick note from me regarding the XSPC tops (both normal and with reservoir) and the barbs used.

I ordered 2 normal XSPC tops (8.50€/each) and the res top and got them yesterday.

As I have 6x 1/2" EK and 6x 1/2" DD barbs laying around, I wanted to check if they fitted nicely in the G 1/4" threads. Normally they should (at least, that's what I expected).

Unfortunately, I ran into problems when I tried the barbs.

Dangerden barbs :

I bought about 12 pieces from PTS last year and 6 of them are in use in my several WC rigs.
When I tried to twist the first barb into the thread, it blocked after only 1 full turn. I found this weird, took the barb back out and tried again. Same thing, wouldn't turn in.
Tried it in the other thread of the top but same problem, could do 2 turns and then it blocked.
Same thing with 4 other barbs and the 2 tops and res top, they simply wouldn't fit.

Only 1 barb would turn in into the threads of the 3 tops.
One other barb would fit into 1 top but not in the 2 others.
Weird, if you ask me.

EK barbs :

No problems with all 6 of them on the 3 tops, they fitted nicely.

I then decided to check if the DD barbs would fit into the Alphacool and PTS tops.
No problems whatsoever with all threads of the tops.

I don't know what to think of this.
Were the G1/4" threads on the tops not properly tapped in by XSPC, so they might give problems with certain barbs?

Or is there something wrong with the G1/4" thread from the DD fittings?
I don't see why there should be something wrong with the DD barbs, as they fit without problems in the Alphacool and PTS tops.

Think I'll be using the EK fittings with the tops.

That is wierd:shrug: , I had no trouble with the DD barbs because they have shorter threads. The EK barbs are longer so that doesn't quite make sense.

The only barbs I had trouble with was the D-tek barbs in the inlet, they were just a touch too long. I could have fixed that by sanding down the barb a few mm though.


BTW, I ran into the same barb length issue with the Koolance side inlet ports. Barbs that were too long conflicted with the plugs that came down from the top.

It's a good thing we have lots of barbs to choose from I guess:D

[Jupiler]

I see what the problem is.

I measured the thickness of the G1/4" threads of the barbs :

all EK barbs : between 12.94-12.98mm
4 DD barbs : between 13.15-13.19mm

1 DD barb had the same measurements like the EK, so 12.98mm, 1 other barb was 13.03mm (so tight one).

So it explains why 4 of the DD wouldn't fit.

[Martinm210]

I see what the problem is.

I measured the thickness of the G1/4" threads of the barbs :

all EK barbs : between 12.94-12.98mm
4 DD barbs : between 13.15-13.19mm

1 DD barb had the same measurements like the EK, so 12.98mm, 1 other barb was 13.03mm (so tight one).

So it explains why 4 of the DD wouldn't fit.

Interesting...I went ahead and measured what I had on hand and saw some similar variability although my DD barbs were all normal.:shrug:

The DD original barbs I have here are 12.80mm,
DD FatBoy = 12.80-12.85
XSPC barbs = 12.70-12.75mm
EK = 12.80-12.85
DTek=13.05

So most of mine are in the 12.85mm range with the D-tek being a little bit bigger.

Anyhow, looks like you figured it out.:up: There is some variability in the barb thread Outiside diameter.. The XSPC barbs fit fine, but they are a touch on the smaller side.

I know when threading with a tapping die, you have control over how tight the threading is, but I suspect any of these mass produced barbs are done on a swiss screw machine, so they can dial in whatever tolerance they want and it probably loosens up a touch with tooling wear. Anyhow I guess one G1/4 (BSPP 1/4"-19) is not necessarily equal to another..:D

[Jupiler]

Thanks Martin. :up:

I still have some older EK barbs, with the smaller O-ring (the new ones have a bigger one).
I added another O-ring to them, so they fit nicely into the thread of the tops.

I don't have the expert tools for measuring the flow rate of the DDC tops.
I'm using a Digmesa FHKUC 70 flow meter (installed right before the PA120.3 inlet), and which is attached to an Aquaero.

WC loop :

Swiftech Micro Res > DDC 3.2 with PTS top > DTek Fuzion > EK8800GT block > PA120.3 rad > Res.

Flow rate, according to the Digmesa is around 5.07-5.10 liters/minute.


BTW :

Thread is "stuck".

[Xilikon]

Thanks Juplier, the crowd need this kind of informations to make a good decision.

[Jupiler]

No problem.

Well,
I just installed the XSPC top on my DDC3.2 (known as Laing Ultra here) and I must say that I'm impressed by it's performance.


Petras DDCT-01 Top : 5.07-5.10 litres/minute
XSPC Top : 5.68-5.71 litres/minute

Quite a difference, if you ask me.
In which way the flow rate, measured by the Digmesa, is accurate, I don't know.
But I notice that the water movement in the Micro Res is much higher with the XSPC top than with Petras DDCT top.

[InfamousChu]

Martin i know this is a ddc3.2 top comparison.. but what do you think about adding a D5/MCP655 to the charts.. just for comparison?

[Martinm210]

Martin i know this is a ddc3.2 top comparison.. but what do you think about adding a D5/MCP655 to the charts.. just for comparison?

Oh yeah...sure. Getting a little busy, but here that is with the D5 in white.

Here are some general flow differences you might expect:
D5 To DDC3.2 w/ XSPC Res Top Delta
High Restriction = .1 GPM (13% difference)
Average Restriction = .25 GPM (15% difference)
Low Restriction = .12 GPM (5% difference)

So the DDC 3.2 with XSPC Reservoir top is capable of producing 5 to 15% more flow rate than a stock D5.

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/1004/ddc32pumptopscomparisonry8.png

[ArtosDracon]

Wow, truely impressed here martin. Have you considered designing a top of your own. I think you've got soem great ideas for improving the design. Especially the idea of the angled/tapered inlet. All of my flow experience is in airflow but, the theories are quite similar. If the inlet was tapered from 1/2"ID to match the internal diameter of the inlet barb down to the impeller inlet with a slight radius to get the water moving into the farthest point in the pump from the outlet it should maximize efficiency and increase the velocity of the the flow.

Heck, maybe I'll make one ;)

[Sparda]

Sold the moded alpahcool top and it crappy reservoir at ebay.

Sayonara to modded Alphacool top and it crappy reservoir.
73885

Sold one got two:p:
73886
modded inlet of Alphacool top. Believe it or not I use sand paper for metal with grid 40 to sand down those hole. Just bought my dremel yesterday.
73887

normal xspc top inlet. The top impeller chamber has a rough quality built and has no xspc label since it an older revision.
73888
This sucker keep stop randomly several month ago. I soo piss off and resolder all the coil , check the molex , shake/slap the pump...blablabla but it keep stop randomly. I slap those heatsink then suddenly they dont stop randomly anymore until today
73889

[Sparda]

damn custom stole my money:p: My packet just arrive for from Sidewinder for my second loop but being hold at customs. Sidewinder have great customer service:up:

82511

[Martinm210]

Wow, truely impressed here martin. Have you considered designing a top of your own. I think you've got soem great ideas for improving the design. Especially the idea of the angled/tapered inlet. All of my flow experience is in airflow but, the theories are quite similar. If the inlet was tapered from 1/2"ID to match the internal diameter of the inlet barb down to the impeller inlet with a slight radius to get the water moving into the farthest point in the pump from the outlet it should maximize efficiency and increase the velocity of the the flow.

Heck, maybe I'll make one ;)

I've always thought of tinkering just to see what I could make, but I've learned my lesson over trying to fabrication stuff on a manual mill. I've yet to make a block where I've even made minimum wage...paper route is more profitable..:D

I think the next bit of tinkering I'm going to do is with some custom nozzles for some pump tops possibly the D5. I figured if I can find some good tweaks to existing designs, I'll send my thoughts to those manufacturers to consider for free. I'm not in this for money, I'd be happy just knowing some of my ideas were being used. The manufacturers have the means to make these things...I don't and I don't want to either. I do just fine with my regular engineering job...this is all for fun.:D

[InfamousChu]

Martin you are awesome! Thanks for posting up the D5/MCP655 results! Ill try to send you a donation once i get some extra cash! I really appreciate all your hardwork!

[Kingslayer]

Hey how did it go with the German customs what u got to pay the 19% or nothing???

[Sparda]

Hey how did it go with the German customs what u got to pay the 19% or nothing???

Actually it about 20%. Yea I must pay the tax. But you can reduce it.....if you know what I mean...lul :D

edit : Usually your items will not arrive at your home because they hold by customs at their office. Then they send you a letter to pick your item and pay the tax there. So no use using express delivery because your item gonna arrive late than 5 days anyway. Better use Priority Mail.

[Waterlogged]

XSPC Res Tops

Get 'em while they're hot (http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=23357)

[XS_RoB]

Finally - I ordered 2 - From Hank and Gang!

[dubleskillz]

Can you tap the XSPC res top to accept G 1/4'' fittings?

[[XC] DragonOrta]

XSPC Res Tops

Get 'em while they're hot (http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=23357)

I love how PPCs posted up Martin's graphs. :up:

[Waterlogged]

Can you tap the XSPC res top to accept G 1/4'' fittings?

Well, it comes with 2 G1/4" holes already in it....and if your talking about putting in new ones, I don't think I would try judging by the pics, it looks like it might be a bit temperamental about having new holes drilled in it.


DragonOrta;2833092']I love how PPCs posted up Martin's graphs. :up:

Bah! The thing with Hank is, he basically copies the Manu's product page and fits it within his page layout. Follow the link at the bottom of the page and you'll see what I mean. ;)

[Trice]

What barbs do you use on the XSPC res top? Ie it ok to get the ones from Performance PC drop down list?

[Martinm210]

What barbs do you use on the XSPC res top? Ie it ok to get the ones from Performance PC drop down list?


I think just about everything should fit on the reservoir, you just need to keep short threaded types on the regular top. D-Tek barbs were the only ones that wouldn't fit on the regular XSPC top for me, but EK barbs were just barely short enough.

There has been one case of larger than normal DD barbs that didn't fit for someone else, but all of mine do. It's a standard G1/4 threading.

[TheJollyFellow]

DragonOrta;2833092']I love how PPCs posted up Martin's graphs. :up:

Did you give him permission Martin? If not, that seems a little...uhhem, rude to say the least....

[Waterlogged]

Did you give him permission Martin? If not, that seems a little...uhhem, rude to say the least....

*sigh*:shakes:

Hank did not take the graph from Martin, he took it directly from XSPC's site. The page I linked to on P-PCs is like 98% copy/paste from the following page.

http://www.xspc.biz/ddcres.php

[Martinm210]

Did you give him permission Martin? If not, that seems a little...uhhem, rude to say the least....

I'm actually happy to see the interest, anytime I can have some sort of influence in real data showing up instead of marketing headlines, I'd consider that a success..:up:

No problem..:D

[Martinm210]

BTW,
I recieve two new tops from Bitspower today I'll be testing and working into the existing results. I've got their mini reservoir top and the regular top.

I also got some 3/8" BSPP barbs from our generous friends at www.watercoolingshop.com, so now I can test the EK G3/8 X-Top.

If OClabs follows through on the xptop, that'll be 14 total..:D

[Waterlogged]

XSPC Res Top now also available @ FrozenCPU. :clap:

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/7226/ex-pmp-62/XSPC_Laing_DDC_Reservoir_Pump_Attachment_-_Laing_DDC-1T1TPlus_MCP-350355_No_Fittings.html?id=YrGrogej

It's also @ Jab-tech but is currently OOS.

http://www.jab-tech.com/XSPC-Acrylic-Reservoir-for-Laing-DDC-pr-4123.html

[aster]

Great test, just one regret : the OCLabs XPTop is not included :/
Here it is : http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/ocxpforladdc1.html

It would be nice tu know how this one perform, since it's cheaper than XSPC's (only 17$)

Another question : Will the charts stay unchanged when using DDC1 9W? Is the best top for 18W still the best for 9W?
Thanks ;)

[Martinm210]

Great test, just one regret : the OCLabs XPTop is not included :/
Here it is : http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/ocxpforladdc1.html

It would be nice tu know how this one perform, since it's cheaper than XSPC's (only 17$)

Another question : Will the charts stay unchanged when using DDC1 9W? Is the best top for 18W still the best for 9W?
Thanks ;)

They said they are sending me one, Sidewinder said they would help me out to so I should have that one tested as well sooner or later.

And I don't know on the 9W pump for sure yet. Planning to convert my pump over to the 9W with the solder modification and run the same set of tests for that pump as well.

I would think the relative performance would be the same (Pump is exactly the same now except under volted), but I want to test it to be sure. It would also supply the curves for the estimator that way and be a second check on the original series of tests.:up:

[aster]

Great news!
Waiting for round 2...
Thanks ;)

[[XC] Kayin]

I'm gonna make you a DDC top to test, Martin. PM me your addy and it should go out on Friday.

[Martinm210]

You have PM.

BTW, didn't get to the rest of these pump top tests just yet, I was working on another pump, but I'll be back with some DDC 3.2 updates pretty soon.:D

[Polizei]

Martin, I know you've got some cabinets to be working on, ;), but how do you think a 90° barb on the inlet of Petra's top would affect it? What about the same for an XSPC top?

[Martinm210]

Martin, I know you've got some cabinets to be working on, ;), but how do you think a 90° barb on the inlet of Petra's top would affect it? What about the same for an XSPC top?

Not good, but probably not nearly as bad as the side inlet results I have posted. Alot of it will probably depend on the type of elbow. If you used a 3/4" Q-Pex Brass elbow with just enough tubing to conect to a normal barb on top...probably alot less loss than a 1/2" nylon elbow.

I don't have any male to male connectors right now, but I figured I'd try a delrin elbow for more of an extreme space need run and maybe one with a 3/4" brass or copper elbow. I could make some, but I'd rather test with commercial parts and I just need to order a couple.

Anyhow, I'll get to that question after I finish up some new product tests and the 3.1 tests all done.

[Digz]

@Martinm210

Do you know if the XSPC Acrylic Reservoir DDC Top can be used on all versions of the DDC pump as the original Black impeller is a different size to the new blue impeller pumps ?

Can you explain more on the trouble you had sealing the top ? As in did the cap leak when fitted or you couldn't screw it down ?

Thanks

[Martinm210]

@Martinm210

Do you know if the XSPC Acrylic Reservoir DDC Top can be used on all versions of the DDC pump as the original Black impeller is a different size to the new blue impeller pumps ?

Can you explain more on the trouble you had sealing the top ? As in did the cap leak when fitted or you couldn't screw it down ?

Thanks

I'll give it a try, I've been meaning to try couple out on my old orange impeller DDC2, I have a black impeller DDC also, but it's got a burnt chip and about to go, but if it works on the orange, it should work on the black.

The problem I had on the top of the XSPC reservoir top was the thread depth on the reservoir wasn't deep enough so the black plastic cap threads could slip when tightend alot. I probably wouldn't have noticed in a normal system without a second reservoir, but since my testing rig included a much larger reservoir, that cap has to seal perfectly, or it'll try to leak a little on me.

I wouldn't worry to much about it in a normal system if your reservoir is mounted upright, but I wouldn't want to mount one sideways. I talked with XSPC about the threads, and my sample was previously used, so it's possibly I just got one that was partly damaged.:shrug:

[Martinm210]

FYI,
I got the EK G3/8" X-Top finally tested this evening. It turns out to be a decent gain over the G1/4 top which I didn't really expect. In the end it'll put it in about 4th place in most of the high/average/low restriction categories.

It seems the littl step and restriction at the inlet has proven itself in providing some gain.

Very good, I'll get this worked into the comparison.:up:
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/9160/ddc32ekxtopg38reportgy1.png

[Digz]

I'll give it a try, I've been meaning to try couple out on my old orange impeller DDC2, I have a black impeller DDC also, but it's got a burnt chip and about to go, but if it works on the orange, it should work on the black.

The problem I had on the top of the XSPC reservoir top was the thread depth on the reservoir wasn't deep enough so the black plastic cap threads could slip when tightend alot. I probably wouldn't have noticed in a normal system without a second reservoir, but since my testing rig included a much larger reservoir, that cap has to seal perfectly, or it'll try to leak a little on me.

I wouldn't worry to much about it in a normal system if your reservoir is mounted upright, but I wouldn't want to mount one sideways. I talked with XSPC about the threads, and my sample was previously used, so it's possibly I just got one that was partly damaged.:shrug:

Thanks Martin

I can't find the post but ages ago on another forum a person posted pics of the tops removed on orginal Black pump and the new Blue pumps when they first came out but when he put the pumps back together he mixed up the tops by mistake and one of the pumps then later burnt out.I can't remember which one but apperntly it was due to friction of the impeller rubbing against the top as the clearance and bore size is different around the inlet so it would be of intrest if XSPC took that into account or soley designed it for the Blue pumps.

I hear what your saying about the top fill cap could have been mistreated before you got it but it's still a concern as people will fill and empty their loops more than once and if it wears like yours has then the res is pointless using if it's not hermetically sealed as your be forever topping it up or having to change the water when it becomes contaminated and turns to pondwater.

[Martinm210]

Thanks Martin

I can't find the post but ages ago on another forum a person posted pics of the tops removed on orginal Black pump and the new Blue pumps when they first came out but when he put the pumps back together he mixed up the tops by mistake and one of the pumps then later burnt out.I can't remember which one but apperntly it was due to friction of the impeller rubbing against the top as the clearance and bore size is different around the inlet so it would be of intrest if XSPC took that into account or soley designed it for the Blue pumps.

I hear what your saying about the top fill cap could have been mistreated before you got it but it's still a concern as people will fill and empty their loops more than once and if it wears like yours has then the res is pointless using if it's not hermetically sealed as your be forever topping it up or having to change the water when it becomes contaminated and turns to pondwater.


I have an older DDC2 orange impeller and one dieing DDC1 black impeller pump sitting here. The old pump had a larger impeller inlet and the stock top and some of the custom tops incorporated an little nozzle that extended down from the ceiling of the pump volute. Unfortunately this does conflict with the smaller impeller opening of the newer pumps. So yeah, the old tops are not forward compatible, but all of the new tops should be backwards compatible. Not sure how performance pans out, the larger impeller inlet will likely have some performance preference differences. This is also probably why alot of the tops have larger openings for the inlets, they were sized good for the older pumps, but too larger for the new DDC 3.2s.

My XSPC dual bay reservoir pump uses the same sort of reservoir cap and does not have the same issue, so I'm inclined to think it's just a fluke as it was a pretty early copy. I also don't worry too much about a perfect seal at the reservoir or T-line. I've run my T-lines with a less than perfect seal for over a year without any sort of problem. Because the tubing stretches and expands under pressure a little, I like having a little venting to remove any pressure buildup in the system.

Like anything, if it's really an issue, that'll surface in the users voicing their opinon, and I'm the only one I know of that had a threading problem of the cap.

[Digz]

Then It's not a problem as i first thought.

Thanks Martin

[Digz]

Rob over at WatercoolingUK was asked about the res on the older pumps and turns out that it's ok :)

Quote Rob

"Yep, there is no compatibility issues on this top on any of the revision DDC pumps.. They are all compatible! "

[Martinm210]

FYI

I did a little experimenting with a slightly different testing methodology so I'll probably go ahead and retest all these tops one more time. I'm going to start measuring suction line pressures as (Total pressure drop) as well as move my voltmeter testing point to the pump plug. This will mean slightly stronger and more accurate results.

Me and my need for precision is my worst enemy.:shakes: Oh well, I'll get these all redone one more time, except for the EK X-res 140, I'll have to throw that result out since I don't have it available anymore to retest. I wouldn't expect any of the relative rankings to change, as they were all tested exactly the same, but I'll post a brand new set of graphs when I'm done.:up:

[fluke420]

Has anyone used one of these tops? The outlet tube looks very large compared to the Alphacool.

http://www.oclabs.com/particles.php?docid=1312

[aster]

I have both OCLabs Tops, it seems to be good, but i'm waiting for Martin's tests ;)

Here are some graphs from OClabs :

Their first top
http://www.oclabs.com/res/articles/1312/ddctest.png
http://www.oclabs.com/res/focus/1322/portateultra.gif

Their new XPTop :
http://www.overclocklabs.com/images/xptop/xptopvsplexytop.png

[Martinm210]

Has anyone used one of these tops? The outlet tube looks very large compared to the Alphacool.

http://www.oclabs.com/particles.php?docid=1312

I have one of those now, so I'll get the xptop tested. A guy over on OCnet had two of the tops and both cracked on him. Not sure if it was just a certain batch or what though. I will get the performance curves established regardless.:up:

I also have some other prototype tops I've tested, but some changes are occurring, so nothing to share yet.

[fluke420]

I have one of those now, so I'll get the xptop tested. A guy over on OCnet had two of the tops and both cracked on him. Not sure if it was just a certain batch or what though. I will get the performance curves established regardless.

I wonder why the top cracked. Are you referring to the XPTop or the PlexyTop? I can understand the XPTop since it looks like it's just plastic but the PlexyTop is acrylic.

[Martinm210]

FYI

Completed retesting all the tops with the DDC 3.1, posted links and charts in the OP here:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2800461#post2800461

Cheers!
Martin

[Sugar4o]

Nice work Martinm210! As expected there are no changes in top positioning in the chart using a pump with less rpm.:)

[oerekum]

What fittings did you use with the G3/8 top? EK G3/8 fittings?

[Martinm210]

What fittings did you use with the G3/8 top? EK G3/8 fittings?

Yes, all the other tops used D-Tek barbs. I did notice a slightly higher ranking with the DD top on the 3.2 testing, and the only difference is I used DD fatboy barbs in the 3.2 testing.

So I would recommend the Danger Den Fatboy barbs for any of the G1/4 tops, they seem to perform the best with the larger inlet and taper down to a smaller ID at the threads, not a huge difference but some..:up:

[Vargher Warg]

Wow Martin! I did not realized that you had finished your Laing 3.1 shotout!

Anyway! thanks martin for an interesting read once again! :up::clap:

I hope I can send something through paypal soon.