US Senate Votes Immunity For Telecoms

[safan80]

http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/08/02/12/1856240.shtml

the telecom companies are one step closer to getting off the hook for their illegal collusion with the US government. Today the US Senate passed, by a filibuster-proof majority of 67 to 31, a revised FISA bill that grants retroactive immunity to the telecommunications companies that helped the government illegally tap American network traffic. If passed by both houses and signed by the President, this would effectively put an end to the many lawsuits against these companies (about 40 have been filed). The House version of the bill does not presently contain an immunity provision. President Bush has said he will veto any such bill that reaches his desk without the grant of immunity. We've discussed the progress of the immunity provision repeatedly.

[[XC] gomeler]

*grumble* they are going to get off the hook.


safan80: could you make your sig a little more compact? uses up half of my screen on a macbook :eek:

[mr_knowitall15]

gomeler;2767876']*grumble* they are going to get off the hook.


safan80: could you make your sig a little more compact? uses up half of my screen on a macbook :eek:

QFT
Especially at second part. That IS a giant sig. runnin at 1680x1050 its worth half my screen

[Yukon Trooper]

And once again the American public will do nothing.

The overwhelming majority of the vote is scary.

[Cybercat]

And once again the American public will do nothing.

The overwhelming majority of the vote is scary.Would the president listen anyway?

What do you care, you don't even live here.

[twin_savage]

the only reason they are doing this is b/c it would case such a large economic disruption. and the government is kinda mest up

[Yukon Trooper]

Would the president listen anyway?

What do you care, you don't even live here.
That's exactly the kind of passive attitude that lets these things happen. Your president isn't a dictator, you just let him to dictatorship things.

I care because it's a big deal, regardless of my nationality. Someone has to care, right?

[[XC] 2long4u]

^^ right! :up:

[BrowncoatGR]

You can have retroactive laws in the US?

[aMp]

You can have retroactive laws in the US?

Yes, provided the retroactive effects don't impair any citizen's "vested rights" -- meaning basically that the government can't retroactively take away something to which you have a legal right. And the right to sue under a statute (as opposed to suing for basic things like theft or negligence) isn't considered vested. (Would be different if this were a criminal law.)

As a soon-to-be lawyer, though, this bothers me because it makes a mockery of law and sets a fine precedent going forward. I can just hear the government now: "Why? Because I said so, that's why. Who cares if it's illegal? We'll just change the law afterwards."

And the irony is that the folks who are supposedly the most worried about government power are the least likely to be bothered by this.

[Cybercat]

That's exactly the kind of passive attitude that lets these things happen. Your president isn't a dictator, you just let him to dictatorship things.

I care because it's a big deal, regardless of my nationality. Someone has to care, right?The problem with people who like to complain is they seldom suggest ways of fixing things.

So on that note, would you kindly tell us Americans some methods on how we should act 'American'?

[zanzabar]

did u guys notice that hillary barok and mccain all supported it (the dems by not showing up since they can officially vote for it)

[villa1n]

The problem with people who like to complain is they seldom suggest ways of fixing things.

So on that note, would you kindly tell us Americans some methods on how we should act 'American'?

dont vote for mccain or billary. :D

not sure what you can do to remedy the situation, as the informed voters ie: people that use the internets dont make up the majority of american populace, hence the quick to forget masses will vote for the guy smiling on tv.

[saaya]

and the land of the freeeeeeeee

[zanzabar]

and the land of the freeeeeeeee

its land of the free, like free domestic wire taps, not land of the freedom

[RADCOM]

well they probably spy on us here in the EU too but they just haven't been caught yet. IS anyone else getting a feeling of "powerlessness"?

[nate39]

Yeah, I would rather have our cities blown up than the government tap terrorist's (not everyone's) phones and then blame them for doing nothing. Do you guys just let CNN force feed you everything?

[Gunslinger]

The US government is so large and beyond reform, it would take another civil war/revolution to get anything changed. "The People" have zero influence any more as only corporate America has the attention of the politicians. It's all about money, oil and tax loop holes for big business.

[Drunner611]

I know this sounds weird, but I don't really care.

The government can listen to all of my phone conversations they want, I got nothing to hide.

OTOH, if they look at my internet traffic, it's another story.

[jbartlett323]

The US government is so large and beyond reform, it would take another civil war/revolution to get anything changed. "The People" have zero influence any more as only corporate America has the attention of the politicians. It's all about money, oil and tax loop holes for big business.

You got it!!! revolution would be good! :clap:

[freeloader]

Would the president listen anyway?

What do you care, you don't even live here.

As Canadians, we don't live there, but we sure as hell get a kick out of watching Americans loose personal freedoms and still pretend to call yourself, "the land of the free".

[freeloader]

The problem with people who like to complain is they seldom suggest ways of fixing things.

So on that note, would you kindly tell us Americans some methods on how we should act 'American'?

How about contacting your congress/senate person and letting them know how you feel about this? An online and door to door petition, perhaps even a march on your local legislature. A letter to your local and national newspapers. That's using your freedom to demonstrate a poor policy.

[mrkram]

this country is a sham... every passing day it keeps getting worse and worse. embarrassing.

[Syn.]

I would prefer to demonstrate my right to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. Not that they would hear it.

Jefferson was right about revolutions though. Just taking longer than he anticipated.

You have the power of communication, use it. Make them hear what you got say they are your government they are meant to serve you because you are "the country".

[Starscream]

How about contacting your congress/senate person and letting them know how you feel about this? An online and door to door petition, perhaps even a march on your local legislature. A letter to your local and national newspapers. That's using your freedom to demonstrate a poor policy.

:clap:
People often forget that they have the right to protest against things (atleast in most countrys).
They think that being a citizen means swallowing everything the goverment throws at them.

others dont use their given right to protest simply cause they think that it wont work anyway. there are tons of people out there who dont protest because they dont think it works. Someone has to start someone has to rally those people.

A while ago i read a thing about what being an american is all about. it was a comic book but it was rly good cant remember wich one but think it was captain america.

[Zucker2k]

Isn't it funny that Americans are getting lectured on democracy and individuals rights and liberties? Guess that's how far this once great nation has fallen down the ****hole of isolation and fear-mongering.

How do you change time-tested laws to fit

1. bad foreign policies
2. outmoded rules of engagement
3. personal vendettas
4. corporate profiteering
5. add your own point here
6. and here
7. etc?

[VulgarHandle]

did u guys notice that hillary barok and mccain all supported it (the dems by not showing up since they can officially vote for it)

i believe obama voted against this

ppl, this is a bill protecting companies who were contracted by the government to do something that IN THE FUTURE might be considered illegal or unconstitutional. This way, it will put the blame on the government, not the business.

These weren't rogue companies that decided to invade people's privacy, no, it was the government asking (in very strong ways) these companies to do so. So the government, having made the mistake, wants to protect those companies from liability. What is so wrong with that? Wish they had done the same for the asbestos crap.

[freeloader]

i believe obama voted against this

ppl, this is a bill protecting companies who were contracted by the government to do something that IN THE FUTURE might be considered illegal or unconstitutional. This way, it will put the blame on the government, not the business.

These weren't rogue companies that decided to invade people's privacy, no, it was the government asking (in very strong ways) these companies to do so. So the government, having made the mistake, wants to protect those companies from liability. What is so wrong with that? Wish they had done the same for the asbestos crap.

One word...

Collusion

[VulgarHandle]

One word...

Collusion

two words...

lawsuit happy

like i said, protects the companies from the government's mistakes, which hey, at least they're owning up to some now...

[aMp]

These weren't rogue companies that decided to invade people's privacy, no, it was the government asking (in very strong ways) these companies to do so. So the government, having made the mistake, wants to protect those companies from liability. What is so wrong with that? Wish they had done the same for the asbestos crap.

What's so wrong with that? Gee, other than that it was illegal?

The Stored Communications Act

18 U.S.C. §2702. Voluntary disclosure of customer communications or records

(a) Prohibitions.— Except as provided in subsection (b)—

(1) a person or entity providing an electronic communication service to the public shall not knowingly divulge to any person or entity the contents of a communication while in electronic storage by that service; and

(2) a person or entity providing remote computing service to the public shall not knowingly divulge to any person or entity the contents of any communication which is carried or maintained on that service—
(A) on behalf of, and received by means of electronic transmission from (or created by means of computer processing of communications received by means of electronic transmission from), a subscriber or customer of such service;
(B) solely for the purpose of providing storage or computer processing services to such subscriber or customer, if the provider is not authorized to access the contents of any such communications for purposes of providing any services other than storage or computer processing; and

(3) a provider of remote computing service or electronic communication service to the public shall not knowingly divulge a record or other information pertaining to a subscriber to or customer of such service (not including the contents of communications covered by paragraph (1) or (2)) to any governmental entity.

------

The Telecommunications Act of 1934

47 U.S.C. §222. Privacy of customer information

(c) Confidentiality of customer proprietary network information
(1) Privacy requirements for telecommunications carriers
Except as required by law or with the approval of the customer, a telecommunications carrier that receives or obtains customer proprietary network information by virtue of its provision of a telecommunications service shall only use, disclose, or permit access to individually identifiable customer proprietary network information in its provision of (A) the telecommunications service from which such information is derived, or (B) services necessary to, or used in, the provision of such telecommunications service, including the publishing of directories.

By your reasoning, I could get away with killing my neighbor as long as an NSA officer told me to do it.

[Gunslinger]

You have the power of communication, use it. Make them hear what you got say they are your government they are meant to serve you because you are "the country".


"The Country" is an ideal that was once true, we are and have been "The Funding" for the politicians and big government for quite some time now.

[freeloader]

two words...

lawsuit happy

like i said, protects the companies from the government's mistakes, which hey, at least they're owning up to some now...

Wrong. The government knew what it was doing was wrong and so did the telecom companies for complying. That's collusion. The telecom companies broke the law and should be punished for it. How this then? No one is allowed to file a lawsuit in exchange for long prison terms for the heads of the telecom companies? Some one should pay for this, whether it's financial or criminally.

[Starscream]

i believe obama voted against this

ppl, this is a bill protecting companies who were contracted by the government to do something that IN THE FUTURE might be considered illegal or unconstitutional. This way, it will put the blame on the government, not the business.

These weren't rogue companies that decided to invade people's privacy, no, it was the government asking (in very strong ways) these companies to do so. So the government, having made the mistake, wants to protect those companies from liability. What is so wrong with that? Wish they had done the same for the asbestos crap.

So?
If the goverment would tell them to jump of a bridge would they also do it?
They knew that the goverment was giving them illegal orders they should have said no when the goverment contracted them todo this.
These companies have legal departments that always take a look at contracts and they should have seen that this isnt legal.

In other countrys there have also been issues like this were the goverment contracted companies todo things that werent exactly legal. Those companies simply said no.

And you damn wel know that the goverment is getting away with this. At its worst 1 or 2 guys will lose their high paying jobs and will a few weeks down the line be given other high paying goverment jobs.

[saaya]

its land of the free, like free domestic wire taps, not land of the freedom :D

well they probably spy on us here in the EU too but they just haven't been caught yet. IS anyone else getting a feeling of "powerlessness"?especially in the uk, there are cctv cameras EVERYWHERE, its scary. oh well, only to spot terrorists of course! :rolleyes:

and those tappings in the us are only to spot terrorists as well!

[Starscream]

:D

especially in the uk, there are cctv cameras EVERYWHERE, its scary. oh well, only to spot terrorists of course! :rolleyes:

and those tappings in the us are only to spot terrorists as well!

yeah, officialy all those things are only supposed ot be used against terrorists but how do you define a terrorist.
On Law and Order you pretty much see how those new laws are abused. When they got a suspect they simply drop the terrorist word and get a wire tap.

[Aivas47a]

The specific issue here isn't whether the government should be tapping phones, it's whether the telephone companies should be exposed to private lawsuits for complying with a government order. People who are concerned about government surveillance policy should lobby for their views through their elected representatives, not try to hit the jury trial jackpot against private companies that happent to get stuck in the middle.

[PrometheusCon]

Looks like its Bush's turn to be a 'lame duck president'...

[Starscream]

The specific issue here isn't whether the government should be tapping phones, it's whether the telephone companies should be exposed to private lawsuits for complying with a government order. People who are concerned about government surveillance policy should lobby for their views through their elected representatives, not try to hit the jury trial jackpot against private companies that happent to get stuck in the middle.

partially i agree. but another problem is why does a company follow a goverment order even though they know that the given order is illegal.

Both the companys and the goverment should be put to trial for this (although the goverment can easily avoid it sadly).
They both did something wrong and the companys shouldnt get immunity simply cause they are to dumb to follow the law.

[Zucker2k]

What are the guarantees that a US telecom company doing business in SA won't turn over phone records to the US gov't when it demands it? And we wonder why the economy is in recession.

Do you hear the call? If you want the freedom to do business, at a cheaper cost, get the hell out of the US! I know I'm not the only one hearing it.

[Cybercat]

Yeah, I would rather have our cities blown up than the government tap terrorist's (not everyone's) phones and then blame them for doing nothing. Do you guys just let CNN force feed you everything?You sir, are scum, if that is what you truly believe.

How about contacting your congress/senate person and letting them know how you feel about this? An online and door to door petition, perhaps even a march on your local legislature. A letter to your local and national newspapers. That's using your freedom to demonstrate a poor policy.Great. We get another bill made up that doesn't grant immunity. It passes through the houses and the president vetos it. The pointless exercise concludes there. Would that make you happy?

We have the power to vote, and not much else.

[freeloader]

You sir, are scum, if that is what you truly believe.

Great. We get another bill made up that doesn't grant immunity. It passes through the houses and the president vetos it. The pointless exercise concludes there. Would that make you happy?

We have the power to vote, and not much else.

The president can use his veto powers, but he too can be overridden by the congress and senate. It's up to the population enmasse to contact their representitives and vote for a change. Maybe no chance of that happening, but by atleast making your voice heard, that gives you the chance to continue to complain about it! :D