P4C800/-E & MachI - can't install evap

[prommy_fan]

HI all!
Just got my P4C800-E and new 2.8C. Tried to install evap on mobo but I can't bend it like it need to be bend. I'm afraid I can break evap head. Please if some got P4C800/-E show me the foto of evap and it's hose already installed - I will try to install it as showen on foto.
I already read this (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16636) and this (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16654) threads but I can't install wothout pic :( :(

Thanks!

[Major]

Sorry no pic, the cpu mounting on the P4C800 is bass ass backwards. but it will work you have to rotate the cooling head counter clockwise. It will be up side down once mounted with the hose on the lower half of the cooling head under the mounting screws. I was afraid of bending it too, but it's safe to do so, just don't apply pressure to the area where the hose mounts to the cooling head.

[prommy_fan]

Thanks for nice reply Major Slaughter , as I understand you correctly evap must be positioned like this:
Yepp??

[NWEng]

From your picture, I believe that's incorrect/upside down. (I'm trying to recall from memory how mine is.) The evaporator should only be mounted one of two ways depending on the orientation of the proc socket. Here's the blurb from the manual:

"Place the metal clips in the upper asymmetric bracket. (The clips has 2 asymmetric positioned threaded brass stands). The outermost brass stand must always point either towards the rear or the bottom of the motherboard, but the mounting bracket may turn either way. This way you can shift the position of the hole over the CPU core for the best fit."

BTW, the rear of the mobo is the edge with the keyboard, mouse, and usb connectors. I can tell you from experience that the prommie doesn't work as well if the evap is installed upside down. HERE'S (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14749) a link that has a pic of Pedro Rocha's properly mounted evap on an IC7.


:cool:

[JCviggen]

the hose should always be in the UPPER part. you'll get worse temps and fluid returning to the compressor if you mount it upside down...

[prommy_fan]

According to Major Slaughter's advice hose will be located on bottom of evap, but you all tell me that it should be located in upper side of evap.
But we a speaking about different mobos

Major Slaughter and me own P4C800-E on prommy, not IC7.

Update:
Just looked on pics of IC7 and yes - it got same CPU socket location as a P4C800/-E. So evap should be mounted with hose in upper part. Just looked in manual for prommy :)

But I tried to bend it look you guys advice and it can't be done :( If with Major Slaughter method I can get evap in right position, in this I can't..:(

[NWEng]

The sockets on both boards are oriented the same, so the evaporator and metal clip will be situated the same. RTFM and you'll find how the metal clip needs to sit in the plastic mounting bracket, and that will dictate how the evap head is mounted; it will only properly fit on the metal clip one way. The picture in the link I sent is correct for the P4C800 as well.


:cool:

[prommy_fan]

The picture in the link I sent is correct.

But Pedro Rocha got MachII! Or there are no difference in evap construction between them?

[NWEng]

The picture is of a MachI. I'm beginning to believe that we have an innocent communication problem. HERE'S (http://www.chip-con.com/index.php?pageid=37) the link from the Chip-Con manual explaining how to install. In the 7th paragragh and corresponding picture please note that the "The outermost brass stand" on the metal clip is the one on the left and it's facing the bottom of the mobo. On the IC7 and P4C800, it will face the rear of the mobo forcing you to correctly install the evap in one position only which is with the hose on top. Trust me.


:cool:

[prommy_fan]

NWEng and I don't believe in communication problems ;)

All I want to say is that I simply can't bend evap in right position :(
I can easily bend evap into this "wrong" position as I showed -
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=202469 but I can't bend it in "right" position as chip-con manual and you guys showed :(

[NWEng]

It will work in that postion, but not very well. It is a little more difficult to bend it into the right position, but it can be done. You'll need to bend the hose without twisting the evap head and you can begin the bend at the lowest part of the hose that's inside the case. Just take you time and try not to force it.


:cool:

[Major]

Guys you cann't place the cpu IHS directly under the promie head unless you rotate the mounting block 180' from what your suppose to on the P4C800.

[NWEng]

That doesn't make sense to me. The plastic mounting plate can be installed either way, but mounting the metal clip is pretty specific for the prommie to work properly. Can you explain a little more?


:cool:

[prommy_fan]

Originally posted by Major Slaughter
Guys you cann't place the cpu IHS directly under the promie head unless you rotate the mounting block 180' from what your suppose to on the P4C800.
Yeap - you right - I also was trying to tell this.

Btw - if you install the metall plate like I will show on attached picture, you cannot install evap with hose in upper side.

[NWEng]

Originally posted by prommy_fan
Btw - if you install the metall plate like I will show on attached picture, you cannot install evap with hose in upper side.

Absolutely correct. But then the evap head is upside down and does not work very well. I've misinstalled mine like that once and my temps sucked. You can install the plastic mounting plate either to the left or right. What you'll need to do is insert the metal clip in the mounting plate and try it. If it's way off center, install the metal clip in the mounting plate the other way and see if the fit is better. If neither is suitable, I don't know what to tell you, but one way should be better than another. See ALSO (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15148&highlight=P4C800)


:cool:

[prommy_fan]

Thanks for reply NWEng.
Yeap I know about it. I will include image with all posible variants.

btw can you take photo showing how your evap is installed? (if you can please include in photo not only evap but hose - I want to see how it's bend.) cuz Pedro Rocha photo shows only evap head :(

Thanks!

[prommy_fan]

here is the pic

[Pedro Rocha]

Should go like this :

Be carefull - do not bend the tube near the cooler head

http://pprocha1.no.sapo.pt/MachII_TubPos1.jpg

[NWEng]

Mine is almost identical to Pedro's, he just saved me from taking a picture of mine later tonight.


:cool:

[prommy_fan]

Oh, thanks Pedro Rocha!

Will try it today.

All I need now is a "little" memory Vmod and I gotta hit 4000 I suppose =)

Major Slaughter, NWEng, JCviggen and Pedro Rocha - Thanks for all your replyes, guys! You really saved me from many headaches! :D

[mrzee]

Here's a pic of my prometeia (mach 1) mounted on
my P4C800-E, hope this helps.
edit; I don't place too much faith in bios temps,
but mine usually read between -18f & -21f.

[Major]

prommy_fan, on the epox the socket is turned the same direction as on the P4C800, However the socket itself is 180' where the lever for the chip is on the opisite side. THE ONLY way to mount the promie head with the short side of the retention clip towards the back covers about 75% of the IHS. In order to get the IHS directly under the promie head, you have to mount it upside down ! Just like MrZee's pic ! the mounting clip is still turned correctly in relationship to the cooling head.

I guess it comes down to the lesser of two evils, either you get 100% contact and mount the cooling head upsidedown. Or you get 75% contact with it mounted the way its supposed to be with the hose at the top.:(

I have tried every combination possible, I wanted to mount it like it is suppose to be, beleive me......but it just doesn't line up correctly on the P4C800 !

Your choice is basicly the lower left illustration on the epox pic and mount the head correctly (reversed from pic) or the upper right illustration and the head will be upside down.

[JCviggen]

Lines up perfectly on the P4C800 major... no problems at all getting the hose right :)
It doesnt matter at all if part of the IHS isnt making contact with the evap. The core is in the middle and its well covered. there's little or no benefit from cooling the whole heatspreader really. i've had so many boards and so many CPU's, some make "fuller" contact than others, but thats about it

[NWEng]

Major S,

What makes it so different from the IC7? Both sockets are oriented the same. I had to start digging a little deeper, but in some of the picures it looks like the mounting plates for the HSF are mounted differently, like the Asus is 90 degrees from how the Abit is. Is that correct?


:cool:

[Major]

JC I'll have to take a longer look at it, I didn't have any problems mounting the IC7, it lined right up the way it was suppose to. Dunno whats different about the P4C800 but it is offset somehow.

[prommy_fan]

I will try to install the evap as it should be installed. Hope cooling of 75% of heat spreader will do the thing.

Btw - it really very strange why Socket location are different, cuz from first view they are identical.

[Pedro Rocha]

The socket position is precisely the same on the IC7 and on the P4C800-E, here is a photo of the correct position

As you can see the CPU is exactly on the center

http://pprocha1.no.sapo.pt/AsusP4C800-E-postion.jpg

http://pprocha1.no.sapo.pt/IC7-postion.jpg

And here is a very good example of an well assembled P4C800 - Petrus MachI with r404.

http://clarisseau.homestead.com/files/P4/PC1.jpg

[prommy_fan]

Originally posted by Pedro Rocha
The socket position is precisely the same on the IC7 and on the P4C800-E, here is a photo of the correct position
As you can see the CPU is exactly on the center
http://pprocha1.no.sapo.pt/AsusP4C800-E-postion.jpg

Yes CPU is exactly on center but with this position of metal plate you cannot instal evap with hose in upper side.

Just check it out.

[NWEng]

I saw that too and didn't quite understand, something would be a little askew. When I tried this with everything uninstalled, the mounting bracket would not mate with the evap head very well, plus it's contrary to the manual or at least my interptation of it. I'm I missing something?

prommy_fan, if you haven't installed yours yet, try a dry run with the metal clip and mounting bracket like Pedro's and slide the evap head onto it. The mounting bracket shouldn't fit very well against the evap head, at least according to my testing.


:cool:

[prommy_fan]

Originally posted by NWEng
prommy_fan, if you haven't installed yours yet, try a dry run with the metal clip and mounting bracket like Pedro's and slide the evap head onto it. The mounting bracket shouldn't fit very well against the evap head, at least according to my testing.

Ok, Will try to do the trick tomorrow,
All I need now is a good sleep!

Cya!

[Major]

Originally posted by Pedro Rocha
The socket position is precisely the same on the IC7 and on the P4C800-E, here is a photo of the correct position

As you can see the CPU is exactly on the center

http://pprocha1.no.sapo.pt/AsusP4C800-E-postion.jpg

http://pprocha1.no.sapo.pt/IC7-postion.jpg

And here is a very good example of an well assembled P4C800 - Petrus MachI with r404.

http://clarisseau.homestead.com/files/P4/PC1.jpg

Excatly my point !!!! they are dead center BUT you have to mount the head up side down to match the mounting plate to the promie cooling head ! it does make a differnce too, the mounting plate is recessed into the cooling head, and mounting it otherwise causes one side to protrude lower than the other and you cann't get good contact with the IHS. ;)

[NyCUndaGrounD]

I believe the hosing for the Mach 1 and 2 can only bend one way.

Chip-con really needs to fix their opening in the intel cpu bracket. the compressor head misses some of the contact with the cpu as shown in the pic posted by prommy_fan.

And Mrzee, oOooooo, that hose looks like it got bent reall bad!

[bmg]

Originally posted by Major Slaughter
Excatly my point !!!! they are dead center BUT you have to mount the head up side down to match the mounting plate to the promie cooling head ! it does make a differnce too, the mounting plate is recessed into the cooling head, and mounting it otherwise causes one side to protrude lower than the other and you cann't get good contact with the IHS. ;)
Since I don't have my Mach II yet I hesitate to get involved here. However, since I've been reading Mach II reviews prior to ordering mine I noticed that the Tom's Hardware Mach II review had the plate mounted backwards from Pedro's. http://www.tomshardware.com/howto/20030610/chipcon-08.html
They end up with the hose at the top also. I guess all will become clear when my Mach II arrives.

[mrzee]

Originally posted by NyCUndaGrounD
I believe the hosing for the Mach 1 and 2 can only bend one way.

Chip-con really needs to fix their opening in the intel cpu bracket. the compressor head misses some of the contact with the cpu as shown in the pic posted by prommy_fan.

And Mrzee, oOooooo, that hose looks like it got bent reall bad!
Just a slight twist and it fit right on,
no bending involved.

[prommy_fan]

Hi ya!

Already install all as I though - metall plate is reversed so evap is installed in right position with hose in up.
THank ya all!

Now I wanna beat up the reset bug. My prommie came without this panel - like showed here (http://www4.tomshardware.com/howto/20021230/chip_con-08.html) on second picture from start of page. I got
simply with molex connector, and power/reset switch wires.
Any ideas? Or I need to buy a little PSU (like PSU which are used in new barebones) and connect it to prommy and start it with shorting 4 and 6 pins on ATX connector

[NWEng]

Yeah, that's the power conditioner which they don't make anymore since the MachII solved that issue.

If you search the forums I think you'll find a couple of threads on th P4C800/prommie reset subject.


:cool:

[Major]

Any 12v PSU capable of 2amps is enough, IMO a AT PSU would be a cheap choice. It only powers the fans, display, and a relay. I'm using a 12v psu I bought on ebay for $13. Once your promie reaches the temp you want you just start the computer up as normal. The reset and power connectors on your case go to the mb just like you didn't have a promie, and leave the reset and power connectors from the promie unpluged. Only the Molex comming from the promie need to be connected to 12v

[Gleep]

I picked up a 12 volt 1500ma powersupply from radio shack to power my prom on. Since I have external drives anyways I use a power strip to power on the external drives and the prom then at the correct temp you just hit the computer on switch. The powersupply was $20 at the local RS, I cut the PS wire and soldered a standard molex connector to it. Of course I have a prom 1, I'm not sure if the prom 2 uses more or less power.

http://www34.pair.com/gleep/12vPS.jpg

[prommy_fan]

Gleep nice choice! gotta find 12V too but maybe 2A.

[Gleep]

Originally posted by prommy_fan
Gleep nice choice! gotta find 12V too but maybe 2A.

For a prom I this seems to be more than enough, because of the design of the PS the lower the load the higher the voltage in fact at zero load it reads about 15v, powering a prom it's down to 13v, so I don't think it's pulling 1500ma more like 1000 or 1200.

[gokickrocks]

take off the heatspreader on the p4 and you wont have to worry about the metal clip not lining up with it, but of course you need to trim the mount

[Pedro Rocha]

No problems at all installing it, this are the temperatures with a standard (non moded) MachII :)

http://pprocha1.no.sapo.pt/AsusP4C800-E_Temp.jpg

[prommy_fan]

take off the heatspreader on the p4 and you wont have to worry about the metal clip not lining up with it, but of course you need to trim the mount
If I could I would done it already! But, I don't even imagine how the mount need to be trimmed :(


No problems at all installing it, this are the temperatures with a standard (non moded) MachII
You want to tell me that you installed evap on this mount ?
http://pprocha1.no.sapo.pt/AsusP4C800-E-postion.jpg

And how about MachII sensor bug? Did you passed it?

[Pedro Rocha]

Originally posted by prommy_fan
If I could I would done it already! But, I don't even imagine how the mount need to be trimmed :(

You want to tell me that you installed evap on this mount ?

And how about MachII sensor bug? Did you passed it?

Sorry this is the correct position

http://pprocha1.no.sapo.pt/AsusP4C800-E_1.jpg

Yehh ..Chip-con just send me back the MachII, I hope it was fixed for good..

[prommy_fan]

Originally posted by Pedro Rocha
Sorry this is the correct position...

Yeah it's correct - I also installed mine like that. Untill it broken...


Yehh ..Chip-con just send me back the MachII, I hope it was fixed for good..

That's really great news (cuz Chip-Con paid for shipping :) )

btw - Pedro u got pm

[bmg]

Originally posted by Pedro Rocha
Sorry this is the correct position

http://pprocha1.no.sapo.pt/AsusP4C800-E_1.jpg

Yehh ..Chip-con just send me back the MachII, I hope it was fixed for good.. Great. You had me confused with the earlier pictures.

[NWEng]

Me too. :D


:cool:

[Pedro Rocha]

Sorry for the confusion, I need holidays :)

Here is the correct position of the cooling head on the P4C800-E :

http://pprocha1.no.sapo.pt/AsusP4C800-E_PromieTT.jpg