New Version Ballistix PC2-8500 Review

[Richie P]

Hey guys, thought you might be interested in reading a review of the new revision of Crucial Ballistix. They're single sided modules, so no more D9GMH or anything...

Have a read and let me know what you think :)

http://www.digitalreport.net/content/view/79/1/

That being said, I'm nit-picking. In the Ballistix PC2-8500 2GB kit, Crucial have a very well presented product with a definite focus on the computer enthusiast. With no compatibility issues, and a kit willing to overclock well past its guarateed speed at the suggested voltage, there's nothing not to like about this product.

[RAMMAN]

this new revision is clearly inferior to d9gmh/gkx.

[eric66]

it isn't gmh ok so what it is ?

[RAMMAN]

it isn't gmh ok so what it is ?

d9hnl

[Richie P]

d9hnl

I doubt that...
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=133235

Proabably D9GCT or new equivalent as i mentioned in the review. Ok it's not D9GMH but it's not bad, and a very good price.

[RAMMAN]

I doubt that...
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=133235

Proabably D9GCT or something as i mentioned in the review. Ok it's not D9GMH but it's not bad, and a very good price.

either its higher binned d9hnl or im wrong on this occasion.
either way its inferior to what its replacing(d9gkx)so i dont like it one bit :(

[Richie P]

either its higher binned d9hnl or im wrong on this occasion.
either way its inferior to what its replacing(d9gkx)so i dont like it one bit :(

That may be the case, and you'd go with the previous version if you have a choice....but i'd challenge you to find a new revision of any kit nowadays that has better IC's than a previous one? DDR2 is getting faded out...so manufacturers focus is more on profit.

It's less than £60 here, and for that price it's a bargain. Ok it's not going to set any world records or take XS by storm, but it's a nice kit to bear in mind as a recommendation to someone looking for cheap overclockable DDR2 or for any new custom builds you have to do for other people. :)

[RAMMAN]

d9gmh--->d9gkx? not necessarily an improvement but was slightly better in some aspects and slightly worse in others.

[bf2142lol]

this new revision is clearly inferior to d9gmh/gkx.

Going by the results this is apparent but then again, he may of just had a bad batch? I'll wait for more reviews and independent results before I make up my mind. It might be worth grabbing some of this stuff before ddr3 takes over.

[lowfat]

Hmm, I wondered why my sticks were so AWFUL compared to the Crucial PC2-8000 that I use to have. This stuff scales like dog poopoo.

[irev210]

aw.

what a bummer. No more classic D9DCT/GMH/GKX IC

Moved onto their newer 78nm IC


A bigger question is how does this scale with voltage?


You guys arent looking at this on the positive side though -- GOOD 4GB ddr2 ballistix kits!

[Gogeta]

You guys arent looking at this on the positive side though -- GOOD 4GB ddr2 ballistix kits!
:yepp:

Bring them on. Thanks for the review, Richie.

[KTE]

Thanks for the review Rich!

So it's rated for the same timings but at 2.0V EPP instead of 2.2V as used to be... but at the same time it oc's worse at C3, C4 and C5 @ 2.2V. I mean I've not properly tested mine but they do 800 3-2-2-1 2-25-4/5-8-8-3-8-2 at 2.18V real fully benchable but those couldn't get close.

How were the loaded temps on them at stock compared to GKX/GMH?

I like the 6hr P95 testing you included though, worth it to show everyday use scenarios. :up:

One thing: The image shows stock bootup at tRFC 52, is this really what they're rated for?

My GMH 2 revs back were rated at 1066 42 tRFC @ 2.2V and it required most volts to drop below 35 past 1100. I got a friend to send some older rev over to UK and it cost me 70+25 dollars so they still worked out cheaper than these.

[zsamz_]

d9gct it pure dog poo poo as lowfat said
wont even scale up past 1000mhz with 2.6v for me

[Don_Dan]

Thanks for the review Richie! :up:

So they changed the chips from the old 16FD3 to the new 8FE5, I already expected that when someone was complaining about not getting good overclocks with his Ballistix 8500 in the respective thread.

I also think these are D9HNL or similar, I disagree with you on that, because I think GCT was a member of the GMH/GKX/GKW etc family.
Any chance you will take the heatspreaders off your kit to check?

[eva2000]

thanks for the review and heads up Richie! :up: :up: :up: :up:

[RPGWiZaRD]

Not really impressive overclocking results (other than CL5 result was decent) but if they're cheap then sure why not. This Team Xtreem DDR2-667 D9GMH kit I have for example is good up to DDR2-1020 @ 4-4-4-8 using 2.2v with TREF 25 and the rest subtimings 10-10-5-8-5 for example. Doesn't the old Ballistix often clock to around DDR2-1200 speeds on 2.2v?

[Veritas.no]

Thanks for the review Richie! :up:

So they changed the chips from the old 16FD3 to the new 8FE5, I already expected that when someone was complaining about not getting good overclocks with his Ballistix 8500 in the respective thread.





Yeah, me :p

Think I'll need to get my hands on some older modules after seeing that test.

[David_L6]

I hope these are more reliable than the old PC-2 8500 Ballistix.... I've had 4 one gig sticks of that die (and 2 one gig sticks of the Ballistix PC-2 6400) in the last couple of months.

[cantankerous]

Man, this really has me worried about my sticks dying and as a replacement I get sent one of these. I would be really upset to have 4 sticks now with 1 or 2 of those 4 being replaced with these. It would bring my current overclock down to its knees and there would be nothing I could do about it.

Actually, I have the Tracers. Will these new chips be used in the Tracer line as well or only the regular Ballistix? I remember hearing around Christmas that newer Tracers were shipping with only one row of led instead of two. Could this be because they too are using these new single sided IC's?

I am curious as to how low the TRFC can go as well. I am currently running mine at 28 with 100% stability. That is half of what these new sticks are suppose to be doing.

[cadaveca]

I beleive these are D9HCD

[Don_Dan]

I beleive these are D9HCD

How could they be D9HCD? That's a 512MBit chip if I'm not mistaken, you would still need 16 chips for 1GB -> double sided, and not single sided like these are.

[eric66]

ok one question which one is better gkx or gmh i always thought that gkx is superior one am i right ?

[Veritas.no]

Any hints to how I can get the heatspreader of without destroying it? I can have a look if anyone comes with a hint ;) Seems glued :o

[Don_Dan]

ok one question which one is better gkx or gmh i always thought that gkx is superior one am i right ?

The manufacturer of the chips ( Micron ) and the RAM manufacturers like Corsair do separate binning of the ICs. GKX is the higher bin from Micron, but you may find GMH that performs as good or even better. And the RAM manufacturers choose the chips that are better suited for a given task, like low frequency + tight timings or high frequency + loose timings, GMH may perform better than GKX in some of the tasks. Recently, most of the chips marked as GMH performed better than GKX,which were rarely found ( at least I don't know of it), but they performed very good, often better than previous GKX, as Micron has refined it's process.
So it mostly depends on the binning process of the RAM manufacturer.
I hope I could make it a bit clearer for you, but there are some people here on XS far more knowledgeable than me about the different characteristics of GKX and GMH.

[eric66]

The manufacturer of the chips ( Micron ) and the RAM manufacturers like Corsair do separate binning of the ICs. GKX is the higher bin from Micron, but you may find GMH that performs as good or even better. And the RAM manufacturers choose the chips that are better suited for a given task, like low frequency + tight timings or high frequency + loose timings, GMH may perform better than GKX in some of the tasks. Recently, most of the chips marked as GMH performed better than GKX,which were rarely found ( at least I don't know of it), but they performed very good, often better than previous GKX, as Micron has refined it's process.
So it mostly depends on the binning process of the RAM manufacturer.
I hope I could make it a bit clearer for you, but there are some people here on XS far more knowledgeable than me about the different characteristics of GKX and GMH.
thx for the answer :up:

[Gogeta]

Any hints to how I can get the heatspreader of without destroying it? I can have a look if anyone comes with a hint ;) Seems glued :o

Place them in an anti-static bag within a ziplock and let them chill out in the freezer for an hour or two. They should pop off with minimal force once chilled. If that doesn't work, use a can of compressed air turned upside-down. :D

[iadstudio]

Place them in an anti-static bag within a ziplock and let them chill out in the freezer for an hour or two. They should pop off with minimal force once chilled. If that doesn't work, use a can of compressed air turned upside-down. :D

If you do that be careful of condensation.

[Gogeta]

If you do that be careful of condensation.

Definitely. Always let parts placed in a colder environment than ambient return to room temp before supplying power. If condensation does occur then a longer drying period will be necessary.

[Zytek_Fan]

I hope these are more reliable than the old PC-2 8500 Ballistix.... I've had 4 one gig sticks of that die (and 2 one gig sticks of the Ballistix PC-2 6400) in the last couple of months.

Micron IC's are very temperamental with voltage :shakes:

[EnJoY]

On this news, you can already see that many sites have raised the price of their current 'old' Ballistix PC2-8500 stock. ;)

[Veritas.no]

Place them in an anti-static bag within a ziplock and let them chill out in the freezer for an hour or two. They should pop off with minimal force once chilled. If that doesn't work, use a can of compressed air turned upside-down. :D

Well, I don't know about the minmal force, but they came off. I took some pitcures to, but I only have a suckysucky mobilcamra. So they show nada.

B
A
L -I8F
L
I
S
T
I
X
l4jn *(colored cirkle)

That's all the chips say, so if that's helpfull to someone then I'm happy ^^

Edit: And they fail at 1200 5 5 5 15 @ 2.2 volts superpi 1m :o

[Richie P]

aw.

what a bummer. No more classic D9DCT/GMH/GKX IC

Moved onto their newer 78nm IC


A bigger question is how does this scale with voltage?


You guys arent looking at this on the positive side though -- GOOD 4GB ddr2 ballistix kits!

Exactly :up:

:yepp:

Bring them on. Thanks for the review, Richie.

You're welcome ;)

Thanks for the review Rich!

So it's rated for the same timings but at 2.0V EPP instead of 2.2V as used to be... but at the same time it oc's worse at C3, C4 and C5 @ 2.2V. I mean I've not properly tested mine but they do 800 3-2-2-1 2-25-4/5-8-8-3-8-2 at 2.18V real fully benchable but those couldn't get close.

How were the loaded temps on them at stock compared to GKX/GMH?

I like the 6hr P95 testing you included though, worth it to show everyday use scenarios. :up:

One thing: The image shows stock bootup at tRFC 52, is this really what they're rated for?

My GMH 2 revs back were rated at 1066 42 tRFC @ 2.2V and it required most volts to drop below 35 past 1100. I got a friend to send some older rev over to UK and it cost me 70+25 dollars so they still worked out cheaper than these.

Can't say I've tested temps, I always run with a couple of 80mm fans around the NB and RAM.

About the tRFC, apart from the normal 4 settings (tCL, tRTC, tRP, tRAS), the rest were left on Auto and I used a P5K Deluxe.

If you can get hold of an old set then they're bound to be better, and UK-US pricing is a bit messed up. £60 is a very good price for these, and they're back in stock in a number of shops as well.

Thanks for the review Richie! :up:

So they changed the chips from the old 16FD3 to the new 8FE5, I already expected that when someone was complaining about not getting good overclocks with his Ballistix 8500 in the respective thread.

I also think these are D9HNL or similar, I disagree with you on that, because I think GCT was a member of the GMH/GKX/GKW etc family.
Any chance you will take the heatspreaders off your kit to check?

You're welcome! ;) Unfortunately I'm in the middle of moving house at the moment (far too much going on in my personal life :() so I'm a bit pre-occupied. Veritas has just posted what he's got so hopefully that helps...I will do in a week or so if still required. :)

thanks for the review and heads up Richie! :up: :up: :up: :up:

I'm glad people like it :D

[eva2000]

one question could it be a mislabelling as the packaging stille says 128MB x 64 and not 256MB x 64

http://www.digitalreport.net/images/stories/rich/crucial/8500/4.jpg

[Den Leiw]

Glad I managed to buy a 16FD3 kit for 65€ 3 weeks ago ^_^
hopefully I will never need to RmA :(

[ziddey]

phew. just got my ballistix 667cas3 sticks the other day. 16fd4 still double sided.

[Dede99]

I have the new one's :( and can't say any positive about. Worked great for one week @ 1080MHz and 5.5.5.15 @ v2.23 and now my system is totally unstable with them so I put back in my Super Talent and they work just fine. No matter what I set them up the system become unstable @ all settings can't run them even @ stock :(
Any suggestions ?

[KALISPIMENTA]

Place them in an anti-static bag within a ziplock and let them chill out in the freezer for an hour or two. They should pop off with minimal force once chilled. If that doesn't work, use a can of compressed air turned upside-down. :D
OR... grab a air compressed can the spray dust ones ,turn it upside down and spray so the liquid comes out and freezes the ram,same solution but it takes 30 seconds not 2 hours

[S1mon-]

Can't believe Crucial has gone junk with their high-end serie... I guess I'll stick with 2GB and grab some G.Skill 4GB PC2-8000 down the road...

[Dede99]

Thats what they did and I'm going to send them back to my reseller.

[Don_Dan]

You're welcome! ;) Unfortunately I'm in the middle of moving house at the moment (far too much going on in my personal life :() so I'm a bit pre-occupied. Veritas has just posted what he's got so hopefully that helps...I will do in a week or so if still required. :)


Yeah, it's okay. Sometimes there are more important things to do... :)

I will ask R00n about the chips, maybe he can identify them.

Keep up the good work! :up:

[Evilsizer]

well i can tell your for a fact its not D9HNL ic's. cause i have some D9HNL's they dont like voltage over 1.95v... if you go to 2v they wont even boot up....
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=510513

[eva2000]

Looks like the Crucial PC2-5300 CAS3 modules with ending batch of 8FE4 are ones which are single sided as well ...!

I think the 1gb PC-5300 modules have changed aswell. I recently bought another 2 x 1gb modules from crucial to add to the 2 x 1gb modules I bought from extremepc last year. Everest reports 1 rank 8 banks as opposed to 2 ranks, 4 banks in the originals.

SPD reports different values for RC and RFC. The new modules won;t run at 438mhz CL4 - have to go to CL5

bb

http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showpost.php?p=8423273&postcount=6

http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showpost.php?p=8431647&postcount=11

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/3082/imagesuv8.th.jpg (http://img135.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imagesuv8.jpg)

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/1928/imagessn6.th.jpg (http://img135.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imagessn6.jpg)

[K404]

Has anyone been through all the combos of MHz, timings and volts with these new sticks?

etc etc etc

More than one way to skin a cat- maybe we need to change our expectations because the density and tech process is different- I wouldnt call RAM @ 2.2V bench-ready ;)

If it does just under 600MHz 5-5-5 @ 2.2V PRIME STABLE, I wouldnt instantly call that a write-off for 650MHz SPi32M @ 2.4V?

[SaII]

will tracers still be GMH/GKX?

[r1ch]

will tracers still be GMH/GKX?

Negative...well, I'd be VERY surprised if they were.

Thank you all for your kind words - it really makes the effort worthwhile :yepp:

[lazy]

so what now? just move on to some G.Skillz?

[yankee]

one question could it be a mislabelling as the packaging stille says 128MB x 64 and not 256MB x 64


128x64/8=1024 * 2 = 2048

Nothing wrong as far as i can see. :D

[EnJoY]

I have 4GB of Ballistix 8500 on their way to me from ClubIT, so hopefully I'll get the old batch.

[HeadOn]

I just bought some from ClubIT and they're the new ones. I think I'm going to return them but there's a 15% return fee. I advise you to cancel.

[ziddey]

:( that's no good. I couldn't resist the ballistix 667 cas3 from clubit. Was cheaper than the 8500. Still the old d9gmh :):)

http://www.clubit.com/product_detail.cfm?itemno=A4360003

I think the price went up $5, maybe it didn't. But great deal if they're still gmh. Not sure if the high density sticks can do cas3 333mhz at 2.1v.

I'm running mine at 4-4-4 2.06v. Might be able to do with lower voltage, but I haven't bothered.

[eva2000]

128x64/8=1024 * 2 = 2048

Nothing wrong as far as i can see. :D doh :o

I have 4GB of Ballistix 8500 on their way to me from ClubIT, so hopefully I'll get the old batch. fingers crossed.. can see it now the hunt for old Micron D9GMH/D9GKX is on!

wonder if the old Gskill 2GB 6400 2GBHZ are still Micron D9xxx ?

[Reznik Akime]

Not really impressive overclocking results (other than CL5 result was decent) but if they're cheap then sure why not. This Team Xtreem DDR2-667 D9GMH kit I have for example is good up to DDR2-1020 @ 4-4-4-8 using 2.2v with TREF 25 and the rest subtimings 10-10-5-8-5 for example. Doesn't the old Ballistix often clock to around DDR2-1200 speeds on 2.2v?

Yeah. So if I my current pair decides to take the dive I shall be quite irate. Not that I run that speed all the time.. I just like to have the ability to do it.

[PhilDoc]

Looks like it may be time to get some backup memory while there's still the chance.

[Gen]

recieved new revision from NCIX.com February 04, 08 :mad:
$75.99 after $20 MIR.

[zsamz_]

i guess i got lucky got mine from ncix 2 months ago
2.1v=1200mhz:)

[HeadOn]

Is there a place where the old ones are still in stock? Also, what does a freezing system indicate?

[r00n]

Most likely this is one of Micron's new HQ-type ICs, whereas D9GMH was B6.
If that's the case then it's probably something like D9JKH (128Mx8).

We'll just have to wait until someone flips off the heatspreader and takes a picture to be sure. :)

[oohms]

Do the chips look like they are D9NHL size (small and rectangular) or D9FTB size (looks the same as D9 fatbody)???

[iadstudio]

Do we know of any way to tell whether the old ones or new ones are beign sold to us? like the sku #'s or something like that?

2 of my 4 gb ballistix just died. One set was double sided and you guessed it... the set that died was the single sided.

[NINaudio]

I got the single sided ballistix dimms and they died in under a week of being run at 1133 5-5-5-15 with 2.25v.

[Dede99]

same here Ninaudio, mine was @ 1080 5-5-5-15 and 2.23v and about 5 day's all was fine and then just crashing system :(
But I tested them again day's after and they worked fine so I sold them to some guy who don't need to OC :) hope he'll get lucky with

[NINaudio]

Mine went back to zipzoomfly the very next day. I ran memtest on them at 800mhz with 5-5-5-15 and literally had several hundred thousand errors in a matter of minutes.

[CPLB]

I got a set of 8500 Ballistix from Mwave back on January 14th and they're single sided... Haven't opened them yet so hopefully I can sell them easier.

[iadstudio]

I might be selling my kit if I can't find another kit to go with it. I've never taken my set above 1100mhz since the 2nd set of "new" revisions limit me.

[krypt0]

Is there an alternative to the ballistix now? Or is it time to go to DDR3?