Looking at sound cards...?

[Jsunn]

Hello All,

I have been looking at sound cards for quite a while now and I am concerned about the some of the issues that people are running into.

My computer has run problem free for about a year now and I don't want to have to start daily tweaking to get the sound card to work.

I currently see two choices the
X-fi Prelude
and the creative fatality pro

I know there are fans in both camps, but I am looking for a quality gaming sound card that is going to require as little maintenance as possible.

In reviews, people praise the cards, but then I find all of the problems on boards like this that people are having in vista.

The realtek just ain't cuttin' it anymore.

What do you think? Are these problems just things that I am going to have to learn to live with? Thanks for your help.

-Jason

[revogamer]

X-Fi Prelude FTW!

[Donnie27]

Hello All,

I have been looking at sound cards for quite a while now and I am concerned about the some of the issues that people are running into.

My computer has run problem free for about a year now and I don't want to have to start daily tweaking to get the sound card to work.

I currently see two choices the
X-fi Prelude
and the creative fatality pro

I know there are fans in both camps, but I am looking for a quality gaming sound card that is going to require as little maintenance as possible.

In reviews, people praise the cards, but then I find all of the problems on boards like this that people are having in vista.

The realtek just ain't cuttin' it anymore.

What do you think? Are these problems just things that I am going to have to learn to live with? Thanks for your help.

-Jason

Another vote for the X-Fi Prelude.

[zanzabar]

get the m-audio with the via 24bit chip, eax is dieing so u dont need creative

[Monkeywoman]

when will the successor of the XFI chip be out? since vista doesn't use hardware accelerated sound cards, id expect creative to come out with a chip that can AND handle up to 7.1.....just curious

[Anemone]

Read there is a pci-e high end Xifi coming soon. I'm waiting for that, at least to see it before making a choice.

[Donnie27]

when will the successor of the XFI chip be out? since vista doesn't use hardware accelerated sound cards, id expect creative to come out with a chip that can AND handle up to 7.1.....just curious

Vista doesn't have to do hardware acceleration. You can use Alchemy for Direct Sound 3D and Openal is processed by the X-Fi without the CPU or the OS!

Current X-Fi's can *handle 7.1 just fine. The PCI-E can't be that far off and should launch sometime after Intel's Penryn hits the markets.

[Jsunn]

The PCI-E can't be that far off and should launch sometime after Intel's Penryn hits the markets.


What time frame are we talking here?

-Jason

[Donnie27]

What time frame are we talking here?

-Jason

I don't truly know, just a hunch! I was thinking later Feb or early March.

[ROBSCIX]

Hello All,

I have been looking at sound cards for quite a while now and I am concerned about the some of the issues that people are running into.

My computer has run problem free for about a year now and I don't want to have to start daily tweaking to get the sound card to work.

I currently see two choices the
X-fi Prelude
and the creative fatality pro

I know there are fans in both camps, but I am looking for a quality gaming sound card that is going to require as little maintenance as possible.

In reviews, people praise the cards, but then I find all of the problems on boards like this that people are having in vista.

The realtek just ain't cuttin' it anymore.

What do you think? Are these problems just things that I am going to have to learn to live with? Thanks for your help.

-Jason

Grab the Prelude, That is the best of the best right now for gaming cards. Not to mention one of the best all around soundcard also..:up: If it is a money thing then go with the X-Gamer but know you won't get near the same sound quality as the Prelude. Good Luck with your purchase.

[Jsunn]

Thanks for your help.

-Jason

[Anemone]

Seriously at this stage of the game, I'd start thinking pci-e. Xifi prelude would be fine if they come up with a pci-e version. But that's just me.

Vista uses OpenAL right? No reason that can't be "hardware accelerated" in fact I think Creative does it through the Alchemy, and possibly Asus with their Vista wrapper (not sure).

If I had to pick right now, Xifi Prelude, but I don't think EAX is dead just yet. But it may well morph into OpenAL over the next few years.

[Donnie27]

Seriously at this stage of the game, I'd start thinking pci-e. Xifi prelude would be fine if they come up with a pci-e version. But that's just me.

Vista uses OpenAL right? No reason that can't be "hardware accelerated" in fact I think Creative does it through the Alchemy, and possibly Asus with their Vista wrapper (not sure).

If I had to pick right now, Xifi Prelude, but I don't think EAX is dead just yet. But it may well morph into OpenAL over the next few years.

But by the time PCI dies, we'll have switched out many more chipsets, processors and X-Fi will have long since died.

No, Vista doesn't natively support OpenAL. You can add OpenAL to it though. UAA sucks for Gaming IMHO. One of these tools was a multi-platform audio API called OpenAL (modelled after its graphical analogue, OpenGL). You can check out the official OpenAL site here. (http://www.openal.org/downloads.html).

http://www.devmaster.net/articles/openal-tutorials/lesson7.php
http://www.openal.org/openal_vista.html


In some cases, where a game specifically looks for a hardware audio path, it may even fall back to plain stereo output. This will be a very different landscape for 3D audio than the one that both Creative Labs and Aureal Technologies® pioneered 8 years ago. Both companies dedicated hardware power to rendering increasing numbers of 3D voices, with each voice taking full advantage of HRTF (Head Related Transfer Function) technology, wave tracing and other advanced processing. With the native Windows Vista audio APIs, all this advanced, hardware-based 3D audio processing will be inaccessible. Instead, basic mapping to a generic speaker placement scheme will be employed, and all interactive processing and rendering will be dependent on the host CPU. While it is true that CPUs continue to get faster, the Vista audio architecture intentionally simplifies things, such that the potential processing load for multiple 3D voices is limited. Inevitably there is a tradeoff. This will be especially true for gamers that have come to depend on the kind of high-end 3D audio experience available from products like the SoundBlaster X-Fi, with its advanced headphone 3D audio processing and dedicated hardware DSP effects. For gamers this would be the most noticeable loss in Windows Vista, and it would be a definite step backwards for PC gaming audio if developers only had the option of using native Windows Vista audio APIs. However, they do have a legitimate, proven alternative in OpenAL.


OpenAL alone is good, OpenAL Plus EAX is even better. That's why Auzen went with it, that's why I'll always call the CMedia based cards Home Theater Cards. They're limited to what the Processor can process and the processor needs software do its work. EAX is first an foremost an Extension, not an App itself.

[BrokeDown]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829132005

Any thoughts? Requires a floppy connector which is retarded, but overall the card looks good.

[Corsa]

You dont need a sound card, get this instead SRS Audio Sandbox - PC Software (http://www.srslabs.com/consumers/store.asp) :up:

[Kondik]

My Vote goes for Auzen XFi

[Scubar]

another for Auzentech X-fi Prelude. The best Creative have to offer and the best Auzentech have to offer mixed together.

[ROBSCIX]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829132005

Any thoughts? Requires a floppy connector which is retarded, but overall the card looks good.

That is one of the best cards offered. It is somewhat light on the gaming standards. Aslong as you understand what it is your getting the Xonars are great soundcards.:yepp:

I suggest the Prelude also as it is a well rounded card. Offering top quality features no matter what you do. The Xonar is meant more for HTPC/music and light games with low level gaming effects. Buy the card that suits you the best.
Good luck with your purchase.

[Donnie27]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829132005

Any thoughts? Requires a floppy connector which is retarded, but overall the card looks good.

Yepp, what Rob said:D

[ToTTenTranz]

get the m-audio with the via 24bit chip, eax is dieing so u dont need creative
EAX is dying (very slowly, since there are games coming in 2008 sporting EAX) but OpenAL isn't, and the X-Fi hardware-accelerates both.



when will the successor of the XFI chip be out? since vista doesn't use hardware accelerated sound cards, id expect creative to come out with a chip that can AND handle up to 7.1.....just curious

Again, Vista makes good use of X-Fi's hardware acceleration through OpenAL and the Creative Alchemy software allows for about every EAX-enabled game to run hardware-accelerated EAX effects on a X-Fi.





As for the topic, I'd say the X-Fi prelude is the best choice. It combines the X-Fi's top 3d sound processing with some very decent DACs and AmpOps.

[Donnie27]

EAX is dying (very slowly, since there are games coming in 2008 sporting EAX) but OpenAL isn't, and the X-Fi hardware-accelerates both.

Again, Vista makes good use of X-Fi's hardware acceleration through OpenAL and the Creative Alchemy software allows for about every EAX-enabled game to run hardware-accelerated EAX effects on a X-Fi.

As for the topic, I'd say the X-Fi prelude is the best choice. It combines the X-Fi's top 3d sound processing with some very decent DACs and AmpOps.

I agree with you more than I disagree but one correction. Vista doesn't make use of EAX at all. Vista uses it own Fake-fi UAA stuff. The X-Fi runs EAX and OpenAL in hardware, on its own and with NO HELP at all from the OS. Meaning X-Fi processes in HW DS3D, EAX, and OpenAL while Vista is trying keep everything in user mode. This isn't done for stability but for DRM. DRM (All Audio Paths are Protected in User Mode) is easer to implement in user mode than it is in Kernel Mode.

[EvilBellyLint]

I've decided on my new "digital media" rig to go with the E-MU 0404 USB,
(an external audio interface.) Had my eye on it for a bit, and new Vista
drivers were one of the deciding factors.


EBL

[Donnie27]

I've decided on my new "digital media" rig to go with the E-MU 0404 USB,
(an external audio interface.) Had my eye on it for a bit, and new Vista
drivers were one of the deciding factors.

EBL

External has its followers and it does make sense to me:) I just plugged in the Headphones and it went into what looks like sleep mode. Yes, this might also have something do with HDMI drivers ATI installs. They removed my ASIO drivers without asking me LOL!:rolleyes:

[EvilBellyLint]

External has its followers and it does make sense to me:) I just plugged in the Headphones and it went into what looks like sleep mode. Yes, this might also have something do with HDMI drivers ATI installs. They removed my ASIO drivers without asking me LOL!:rolleyes:

Hrm... dat don't sound fun at all :-/

I didn't used to be a big external component proponent (snort!)
but I'm digging the bang-for-the-buck with the E-MU 0404's,
just don't like the build of the internal PCI version with all the
cables hanging off the back of it lol. External will also free me
from dealing with shielding the internal card from EMI noise.
Then there's always the cool factor of having a bunch of
little knobbies to twist and tweak on the external device :p:

EBL

[Donnie27]

Hrm... dat don't sound fun at all :-/

I didn't used to be a big external component proponent (snort!)
but I'm digging the bang-for-the-buck with the E-MU 0404's,
just don't like the build of the internal PCI version with all the
cables hanging off the back of it lol. External will also free me
from dealing with shielding the internal card from EMI noise.
Then there's always the cool factor of having a bunch of
little knobbies to twist and tweak on the external device :p:

EBL

Absolutely! If I didn't love Games so much I'd more than likely have went external as well. I like the 1212 version.

[EvilBellyLint]

Absolutely! If I didn't love Games so much I'd more than likely have went external as well. I like the 1212 version.

Most definitely -- I love that 1212M (and v2 has recently come out)
Just wish they made an external firewire version of it.

In fact, my decision was down to the 0404 USB or the 1212M v2...
and now I'm not so sure again,,,LOL!


EBL


Addendum: oh... just noticed the 1212M v2 has a built in compressor.
Okay, I've changed my mind -- 1212M v2 it will be lol!

Addendum #2 wait... crap. It's not a hardware compression, i's via a
software plugin.

*sigh* back to flipping a coin

[Donnie27]

Most definitely -- I love that 1212M (and v2 has recently come out)
Just wish they made an external firewire version of it.

In fact, my decision was down to the 0404 USB or the 1212M v2...
and now I'm not so sure again,,,LOL!


EBL


Addendum: oh... just noticed the 1212M v2 has a built in compressor.
Okay, I've changed my mind -- 1212M v2 it will be lol!

Addendum #2 wait... crap. It's not a hardware compression, i's via a
software plugin.

*sigh* back to flipping a coin

Yes.

Yes.

But still pretty fast. Creative's says it doesn't need Fire-wire. They have Fire-wire support if it were needed. Even the old Audigys had Firewire. Unless they're lying again LOL, that's what the info a bud got in an Email from Creative.

I've been finding that 100% solid state motherboards will please all but that 1% who thing you have to have $199 cables and speakers sound crap unless they cost $10K and have Room and Chair to properly hear it. Everyone else will not be bothered. I tested at least 3 solid with two different motherboards with two solid state cards. One of them shielded, I'm sorry I didn't have any equipment to measure but none of us could hear any difference. I'm not saying there isn't a difference I'm saying it is almost imperceptible.

All tests were performed at a place where we couldn't take photos (guys work place) Was going to post this on Thursday. Oh and some pics to go with it to show the end result from my place buy tonight. Proof for at least one Doubting Thomas;)

[ROBSCIX]

Most definitely -- I love that 1212M (and v2 has recently come out)
Just wish they made an external firewire version of it.

In fact, my decision was down to the 0404 USB or the 1212M v2...
and now I'm not so sure again,,,LOL!


EBL


Addendum: oh... just noticed the 1212M v2 has a built in compressor.
Okay, I've changed my mind -- 1212M v2 it will be lol!

Addendum #2 wait... crap. It's not a hardware compression, i's via a
software plugin.

*sigh* back to flipping a coin

Did you make your decision yet? If you want a compressor, you can get great external units for cheap these days.

[Donnie27]

Most definitely -- I love that 1212M (and v2 has recently come out)
Just wish they made an external firewire version of it.

In fact, my decision was down to the 0404 USB or the 1212M v2...
and now I'm not so sure again,,,LOL!


EBL


Addendum: oh... just noticed the 1212M v2 has a built in compressor.
Okay, I've changed my mind -- 1212M v2 it will be lol!

Addendum #2 wait... crap. It's not a hardware compression, i's via a
software plugin.

*sigh* back to flipping a coin

Made up your mind yet?