Core 2 Quad degradation?

[kup]

Hey guys,

I'm curious to hear your throughts on this, I've got a Q6600 which did 3.825GHz with 1.48v, never breaking 65c. Then when I changed boards to the Maximus from the Striker it started to require 1.55v. I thought nothing of it, assuming it was the Maximus pushing it harder than the Striker. Now however it is failing OCCT with up to 1.575v; just reboots after a few seconds of the CPU test.

It also used to run 3.915GHz with 1.55v and that too jumped up to 1.625v with the Maximus, and again it now requires some silly voltage I'm unwilling to give it.

Is it possible that the chip has started to degrade already? I've done a few SuperPI suicide runs at up to 4.2GHz with up to 1.7v with the case out my window and the MAX CoreTemp reading of about 20c loaded (it was COLD!!!), could that have done it? I'm not fussed if it has, and whilst running the Suicide clocks I thought it could affect it, but what do you guys think?

[deadman'sclick]

doubt it,

i had a simular thing with an e6600, in the 975x/g chipset it needed far more cpu core volt than in my icfx3200 for the same o/c.
now my friends using the same e6600 & 975x/g combo & it needs the same extra volts as it did orignally in that mobo.

regards

[kup]

Interesting, so it could just be the Maximus requires a butt load more voltage to be stable? Do you think if I put in my Blitz Formula I'd experience the same thing? Or was that a nicer chipset for overclocking the CPU (I've only really played with the FSB so far, and no just have it Folding 24/7)?

[GripS]

I would think it's the motherboard difference as well. However 1.7v is an awful lot of voltage to give a chip.

[kup]

I would think it's the motherboard difference as well. However 1.7v is an awful lot of voltage to give a chip.

As I said, it was ULTRA ULTRA cold! Even OCCT and Prime were loaded @ not even 30c (only for a brief second to get temps). If it were any warmer, I'd not have done it at all.

[Falkentyne]

I'm 100% sure that the chip did not degrade at 1.48v. The very fact that the chip "suddenly" needed 1.55 instead of 1.48v should tell you that.
Did you activate vdroop control option (if available?) on the Maximus? If not, that 1.55v that it 'suddenly' needed on the Maximus could have become 1.48v under load, and that is a .07v drop, which is about what these boards droop to on average, without either a vdroop mod, or vdroop control options in the BIOS.

You said however, that the chip slowly needed more voltage on the same motherboard; 1.55v slowly became 1.575v. I'm sure this is the result of degradation; Putting more than 1.5v into a Core 2 on air for any long length of time is asking for trouble. (I've seen degradation myself on a X6800 when run at these voltages; 1.575v-1.625v was not friendly to the chip).

Did your chip originally run occt or whatever that is, fine at 1.55v, but later it started rebooting? How long a time period passed before this happened? This is assuming the board remained constant.

[kup]

It could run OCCT CPU @ 1.48v @ 3.825GHz in the Striker. On the Maximus it needed 1.525v for a few days and would 80% of the time pass OCCT, this was increased to 1.55v and it passed 24/7 on the Maximus.

Recently however this has become unstable, booting me out of games and hardlocking or rebooting when Folding and gaming at the same time, something that never used to be a problem. I honestly couldn't say the time period in which this happened, but it was sudden. I down clocked for a few weeks, back to 3GHz with stock 1.2375v and that was 100% fine Folding and gaming, but when I resumed my overclock of 3.825GHz (settings saved within bios, but also completely re-entered to be sure) it had lost all stability.

I'm testing the motherboard right now @ 450MHz and all timings and straps as I had it with 3.825GHz and it's running OCCT RAM no problems at all, so that IMO rules out the motherboard/ram.

EDIT: And yes, vDroop control "LLC" was enabled the entire time, and vDroop was factored in with the Striker to get 1.48v real LOADED.

[Falkentyne]

Ok that doesn't sound like good news.
The striker did NOT have vdroop control, from what you're saying, so its stable setting under load is 1.48v? But with the maximus, WITH vdroop control, you needed a slowly increasing range from 1.52v to 1.575v ? Is this correct?

This sounds exactly what my X6800 went through when I exceeded 1.50v, although that was without a vdroop mod then.

The extra jump in vcore probably caused this. The only way to be 100% certain is if you had access to another striker and did your old tests back at 1.48v, just to make sure it's the CPU and not the motherboard/northbridge causing FSB/VTT problems at the high FSB. If you could borrow another striker somehow, this would prove this to be true. But that may not be possible for you to get one. Without an ability to drop the FSB and raise the multiplier to eliminate the FSB completly as a factor, this would be the only way to be 100% certain. I can only hope it is the motherboard, but I feel that's wishful thinking, and it's the CPU.

Once again, I'm sitting here floored, wondering why I got flamed by Weldzilla and others, over a year ago, for even ASKING IF, much less suggesting, that going over 1.5v might cause degradation, and everyone saying that only happened on Northwoods (and even then, a few idiots saying it never happened). And now more and more posts showing degradation on Core 2's to be true and I was right all along. Someone posted over at ocforums that they got degradation on their core 2 after running it around 1.6vcore. You may have noticed that the flames have disappeared completely (even though I have yet to get an apology from anyone...)

[kup]

Ok that doesn't sound like good news.
The striker did NOT have vdroop control, from what you're saying, so its stable setting under load is 1.48v? But with the maximus, WITH vdroop control, you needed a slowly increasing range from 1.52v to 1.575v ? Is this correct?

This sounds exactly what my X6800 went through when I exceeded 1.50v, although that was without a vdroop mod then.

After taking into account vDroop, the actual stable voltage was 1.48v on the Striker, and the actual stable on the Maximus is 1.55v with LLC enabled and with LLC disabled 1.625v Bios for 1.55v actual.

I've ruled out the motherboard crapping out, as 450MHz is still stressing under OCCT RAM with a hiccup.

Any other way I could test it? Does anyone know if the Striker and Maximus masssively differ in their FSB/VTT needed?

[kup]

Slight update...

I'm back to stable @ 3.75GHz with 1.48v. ANYTHING even remotely near 3.8GHz is completely unstable now, even with 1.575v where it was kind of stable.

Thankfully though, 3.75GHz puts me within range (motherboard wise) to do 8x469 for 3.752GHz! :cool: That works pretty well for me! Slightly pissed off that I've lost my max overclock, but hoping that with the lowered voltage and in turn lowered temps (barely breaking 55c now with Folding SMP 24/7) it'll hold off any further degradation.

R.I.P 3.9GHz on air... :(

[dkjbama]

kup,
What bios are you running? Could be very relevant to your problem.

[Warboy]

I'm having the same problem there Kup, If you look at my eariler posts with the Maximus You saw I was getting 3.94 - 4.00 stable, No I can't get past 426x9. or 3.84Ghz

Its really upsetting, i'm having the same issue.

[AliG]

could be voltage issues with the maximus? Maybe vdrop/vdroop mods necessary?

[kup]

kup,
What bios are you running? Could be very relevant to your problem.

Bios 0907. I don't think it's the problem, as I was running up to 3.915GHz 24/7 OCCT stable with this bios. I might give 0505 (the bios I started with on the Maximus) a shot tomorrow though, just to be sure?

I'm having the same problem there Kup, If you look at my eariler posts with the Maximus You saw I was getting 3.94 - 4.00 stable, No I can't get past 426x9. or 3.84Ghz

Its really upsetting, i'm having the same issue.

What were your symptons? Sudden instability or stable for ages then slightly flakey and then just crap?

could be voltage issues with the maximus? Maybe vdrop/vdroop mods necessary?

I've got Loadline Calibration enabled and also a pencil mod for the vDroop on and it's 99% spot on, 1.5v bios = 1.496v Load Actual.

EDIT: If I get time tomorrow, I'll gut my Blitz Formula rig and test the Quad in that too, along with bios 0505 on the Maximus.

[Infa]

Omg, been looking for peps with this prob :)

Count me IN!

have exactly the same problem......and i got a Maximus Extreme......

First off i were 8x500 = 4Ghz stable 16H on my commando.... with 1.54v
ahh happy like never before i bought P5E3 Deluxe, and was hoping for SOME more OC, MAYBE and a transition to ddr3 ...but youll never know right?

anyhow, boot up...all works great... but? 8x500 doesnt work very well anymore at all.... and my cpu just WONT WORK at any freakin setting at 4Ghz anymore.... it just wont...not even at 1.7v.....not 9x445 either...its everyday stable at 3.9 now and 1.54, but not orthos so long....what has happened? a CPU cant freakin degrade by switching Motherboard?? now im fed up with this, im ordered a Wolfdale, and i freaking hope its the cpu, and not the board couse i had the same problem with BOTH asus boards and stuff like that doesnt make a person continue use that brand...

[Warboy]

What were your symptons? Sudden instability or stable for ages then slightly flakey and then just crap?
yes, Thats spot on.

Slightly Flakey, then Boom, Sudden instability no matter what voltages.

Basiclly It turned from 4Ghz stable to 4Ghz Crapstable.

Lately, I haven't even gotten 428x9 stable, Random Voltage issues. I talked about it in the other thread, where I we get random voltage drops. to Nearly 0.7 on the memory and then 0.9 on the chipset.

Also, I was having Posting problems before, like it would start but no Post and said "DET MEM" On the LCD.

I really think we should complain to ASUS till they give a Rampage Formula since thats basically a High-Pin Revision of the Maximus Formula.

[kup]

I think you've got a good idea there, Warboy. I don't know whether they'd even entertain the idea but hey it's worth a shot.

You have got me questioning my instabilities now though; is it more the board? OCCT/Everest did record a drop from 1.55v to 0.4v while testing, it didn't crash it, but it failed shortly after.

[Warboy]

I think you've got a good idea there, Warboy. I don't know whether they'd even entertain the idea but hey it's worth a shot.

You have got me questioning my instabilities now though; is it more the board? OCCT/Everest did record a drop from 1.55v to 0.4v while testing, it didn't crash it, but it failed shortly after.

I think its the board. I think the X38s are Degradation when used with Quad-Cores. I get random reboots when I try to run a higher overclock, No BSOD, No Failure, Just a reboot. I didn't get that before, and If I time it just right, I can stop OCCT before it does a reboot and see there is voltage drops.

[kup]

I'll test my Quad on my Blitz when I get a chance, to see how it handles it.

[CyberDruid]

I tried the X38 and frankly would recommend that anyone wanting stability stick with P35.

I did have a similar issue with my Abit AW9D Max on phase: easily passing 4ghz on a nice E6600 but then flakey and finally instability and then only stable at stock speed.

Swapped the chip to a P5K 'nilla and it was not the chip..the high MCH I was running degraded the Abit.

I have heard that High PLL (1.7+) will start to effect the max FSB the chip is stable, but I have yet to hear of anyone cooking a C2D or Quad with 1.5 volts

ANything above 1.5 is asking for damage in the long run I feel. It only makes sense.

[kup]

This further increases my desire to go with the Blitz Formula over the Maximus! Would you guys recommend the Blitz over the Maximus?

[Warboy]

This further increases my desire to go with the Blitz Formula over the Maximus! Would you guys recommend the Blitz over the Maximus?

One step at a time, We need people to verify this problem, if we can do that, I'm sure we can get a huge recall of atleast the ASUS X38s. I also heard the Maximus was EOP'd already. Sorta like the Blitz.

[kup]

One step at a time, We need people to verify this problem, if we can do that, I'm sure we can get a huge recall of atleast the ASUS X38s. I also heard the Maximus was EOP'd already. Sorta like the Blitz.

I already have the Blitz sitting here, just always used the Maximus insteas because it was the newer tech!