MSI K9A2 CF-F Mosfet Cooling [Archive]

Russ_64

01-09-2008, 03:01 AM

First off, if you are researching this MB for AM2/AM2+ CPU then BEWARE - it does not support 125w CPU (currently 6000+, 6400+ X2's and FX62). It does support Phenom 95w but may have issues if you plan to OC as there is no cooling on the Mosfets (as you can see below).

I was planning to cool them but the Thermalright HR-09 will not fit and there are no waterblock available (yet). So I guess that leaves the Microcool Heatsinks (I have 6 of them that I used before, so better than nothing).

Anyone have any other ideas ?

madfaze

01-09-2008, 03:35 AM

hmmm i was thinking of a ramsink instead...
or a coolermaster chipset cooler...

Russ_64

01-09-2008, 03:53 AM

Chipset cooler is 37mmx37mm - wont fit on Mosfet.

Microcool Southsink dissipator: 15(L)x12(W)x18(H) mm, RAM sinks will also work but they don't have as much height.

Also, I am replacing NB and SB MSI heatsinks with Zalman NB47 and NB32 coolers.

Jakalwarrior

01-09-2008, 06:30 AM

Before mine went up in smoke, I was going to order some long ram sinks to cover 3 at a time then count on that noisy high cfm triblade fan on my XP90 to do the rest.

Something like this http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1658 8 dollars for 8 copper ones. Would probably only take about 4. Use the rest on on stuff like the pll etc... or save em.

Without the thermal pad though. That thing looks too thick. Lil ceramique or something since they look to small to do the as5 / superglue thing efficently.

Russ_64

01-09-2008, 06:51 AM

Yeah, RAM sinks are a bit small IMO.

These look better (and I can get them in UK):
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=54_43&products_id=21214

I already have Akasa Thermal Adhesive Tape to mount them.

PS - what CPU were you using? Did you increase any voltages?

Jakalwarrior

01-09-2008, 06:57 AM

Yeah I did increase voltages. Was a 4000+ 65nm at 1.49 for about 1 hour before it let out the magic smoke (playing WoW not priming). Ram was at 2.2. Its down the forum a ways (maybe on second page) with pics etc...

I dont think sinks woulda saved mine :/

GD5015

01-09-2008, 08:19 AM

Bit-techs review shows the x2 6000+ running just fine. Wonder if maybe it is more isolated than it seems here?

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2007/12/21/msi_k9a2_cf/1

Jakalwarrior

01-09-2008, 08:32 AM

The only chip they stress tested with was the 6000+. May have been the 65nm version, which this board does support.

If they repeated the stress test with voltage at 1.5 I would say it was just two flukes on or forum ;) has to be some sort of reason the board doesnt support any chips higher than 89 watts. Until we find out why, people should think twice before overclocking your chip past the wattage of the 6000+ 65nm (max chip it supports).

*edit. According to a lil web calc I used, my chip was at 133 watts.

Russ_64

01-09-2008, 08:40 AM

I was going to say that there are 2 versions of the 6000+ (one is 125w and the other is 89w - they don't say which they used and most buyers would not know which they have?).

Anyhow, I found this interesting:
"Cooling
The board uses some very simple heatsinks, but thanks to the 790X north bridge and SB600 south bridge being so cool, that is all that’s necessary. Even after hours of load, the north bridge barely gets warm to the touch. The CPU power regulation components don’t get any extra cooling though, which means all that heat is left to circulate around the chassis and back into the PCB. Interestingly, there are a couple of pin holes to mount an aftermarket (or self made) heatsink solution if you feel the need, but even after hours of load they didn't really get hot enough to cause concern."

They also tested a P9900 (2.6 - I assume a ES - don't know if it is also 95w??) no problems reported = Good news!

Manicdan

01-09-2008, 11:17 AM

i just keep my old cpu heatsinks and make my own with a dremel. works every time. too bad i was one of the first with the problem and didnt have time to prepare for it.

and btw thats wrong about the northbridge being cool to the touch, thats way off. i kept a fan on mine cause after just a few minutes it was close to burning you if you touched it.

madfaze

01-10-2008, 02:07 AM

any development?

Russ_64

01-10-2008, 02:12 AM

I just received my SB heatsink today (already had the NB and Mosfet sinks). Will be building this weekend and will post pics. Consensus seems to be that mosfets don't need major cooling just decent airflow and this MB does not like overvolting therefore Phenom at 1.2 - 1.25 should be okay.

madfaze

01-10-2008, 02:32 AM

madfaze

01-18-2008, 12:03 AM

any news?!

Leeghoofd

01-18-2008, 03:43 AM

Main wasn't even build in , beefy 120mm blowing straight on them, they were slightly warm , pc shutdown suddenly during software install, rebooted straight away, 30 mins later shutdown completely...no visual damage but baord was dead... I really think it's a bad design or flaw in some components though more and more get these issues... it was equiped with an 6000+ 89watt version , Bios 1.1, 2 gig of ram PC6400 and an ATI 3850 256 vidcard, OCZ 600 watt PSU... hope your boards are more durable, budget asus in this rig and that has run flawless for over 5 days now (while it seems more fragile then the MSI : smaller NB heatsink, fewer mosfets,...)

Russ_64

01-18-2008, 05:30 AM

No - the Zalman NB32 was too big for the SB600 - it blocks the 2nd PCIe (and I may want to add 2nd HD3850 later) so I ordered a Microcool Southsink and a few more Mosfet Coolers but I am still waiting for delivery (after 1 week).

I ran my MB twice for a day each time and did Sandra benchmarks but did not OC. Hoping that my MB is a "good" one, there are now at least 5 that have died! :confused:

Jakalwarrior

01-18-2008, 06:16 AM

Just hope all your cooling work doesnt get scorched by the flaming mosfets :smoke:

Wish MSI would do something to make it up to us. Like... atleast pay for the RMA shipping charges or give us a plat for free.

GD5015

01-19-2008, 04:22 PM

Have had mine running for about 2 weeks now. 5400+ (65nm), 3.2 GHz @ 1.382v, bios v1.2, Tuniq tower,, 2 gigs Adata 5-5-5-15, MSI 3870 OC, and Earthwatts 500 power supply. No problems so far with got 6 120mm fans and a 70mm fan blowing on the underside of the cpu socket, in a CM RC690 case. My mosfets get just warm to the touch, cpu temps on the board are 40c under load with 38c on the motherboard, according to hardware monitor v1.06. So far I couldn't be happier. I plan on trying some homemade heatsinks on the mosfets before the weather gets hot.

luckskywalker7

01-28-2008, 02:23 PM

Hello all, I just recently got one of these boards along with a x2 4000+. If just increase the FSB and not the Voltages would I be ok to not get any mosfet cooling?

RCRacing

01-28-2008, 08:09 PM

MSI K9A2 CF-F, Havin trouble getting the 1066 with this board for the ram.It shows as 800fsb.try switchin and go back to 800.I have the Kingston Hyper X 2x512/1 gig.Anyone with ideas.MSI keeps sending me this new bios,however am unable to flash bios.

madfaze

01-28-2008, 08:38 PM

KTE

01-28-2008, 09:00 PM

First off, if you are researching this MB for AM2/AM2+ CPU then BEWARE - it does not support 125w CPU (currently 6000+, 6400+ X2's and FX62). It does support Phenom 95w but may have issues if you plan to OC as there is no cooling on the Mosfets (as you can see below).The main issue is not the cooling, the issue is what causes the overheating. ;)
The VRM supply circuitry of that board cannot handle the current generated by overclocking Phenoms or by the high TDP chips. I'm not sure what it's regulated to exactly but the limit is near 80A including NB which needs it's own current supply from the regulator, but Phenom can and will pull upto 110A CPU and 20A NB when overclocking. By trying high volts/MHz, people will burn up things quick.

Daveburt714

01-28-2008, 09:49 PM

This might be old news, but MSI finally admitted to the problem (sounds like you already knew Russ ;) )

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2008/01/28/msi_no_longer_supports_125w_cpus_in_the_k9a2_cf/1

Makes me wonder it this same problem doesn't lead to some of the instability issues on it's big brother, the K9A2 Platinum....

Russ_64

01-29-2008, 01:41 AM

Yeah, hopefully I will be okay with Phenom and I will definitely only OC at stock volts.

I have installed the Microcool Mosfet sinks and Zalman NB HS but all the SB sinks are too big/chip is too small even for Thermal Adhesive so I have replaced the MSI one with pins. Watercooling is now in and leak tested, so final install of components is finally in progress. Will post up some pics asap.

madfaze

01-29-2008, 01:48 AM

luckskywalker7

01-29-2008, 05:21 PM

does anyone know if it will be ok if i OC by just increasing the FSB and not increase the voltage or will it damage the mosfets?

KTE

01-29-2008, 05:50 PM

Increasing FSB should be fine to a point. It's power you have to worry about. :)

luckskywalker7

01-29-2008, 07:16 PM

yea i should only be able to overclock it so far, but only increasing the fsb should be ok and my mosfets shouldn't burn out, right? I just want to be extra cautious.

luckskywalker7

01-29-2008, 10:01 PM

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835108094
would those work alright to cool the mosfets?

madfaze

01-30-2008, 01:25 AM

would enzotech works?
BMR-C1
14mm width

http://www.enzotechnology.com/bmr_c1.htm

Russ_64

01-30-2008, 03:00 AM

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835108094
would those work alright to cool the mosfets?

Those Swiftech's look good and size s/be okay. Same for Enzotech's - depends on what you can buy locally - just check dimensions.

I have not OC'd yet but with a Phenom high volts doesn't seem to help anyway so keep it at 1.2 or 1.25. The guys with burnt boards were using X2's (125w or they went to 1.4+ volts).

madfaze

01-30-2008, 04:11 AM

Those Swiftech's look good and size s/be okay. Same for Enzotech's - depends on what you can buy locally - just check dimensions.

I have not OC'd yet but with a Phenom high volts doesn't seem to help anyway so keep it at 1.2 or 1.25. The guys with burnt boards were using X2's (125w or they went to 1.4+ volts).

enzotech 14mm in width most likely it will fit...
so 65w plus added vcore (lets say 1.55v) wont burn at all?!

Jakalwarrior

01-30-2008, 05:15 AM

Its not a cooling issue. Mine had massive air flow. Its just an issue of the board having a bad part for the job.

KTE

01-30-2008, 09:28 AM

It's power you have to contain. Frequency makes power rise too although not as much if you stay below 2.5G on Phenom but volts makes it rise by the square.

If you get a 9600 BE, you may well be able to undervolt it at <2.5G so that should work out safe. I can put 1.212VID CPU (1.2V) and 1.050VID IMC (1.0V) for 2.5G stable on mine with just the stock Phenom 9600 BE HSF which gives sub 95W TDP as stock is 1.250VID CPU (1.24V) and 1.250VID IMC (1.24V).

TDP = ~80W

;)

luckskywalker7

01-30-2008, 01:31 PM

since i have a x2 4000+, how high should I OC it only using fsb? Does 10.5 x 248fsb (2.6ghz) seem feasible without burning up the mosfets? I'm pretty sure that this can go up that high on stock voltage from what I have read. Just I'm wondering if my mobo will fry if I increase the fsb on it by 48mhz.

Jakalwarrior

01-31-2008, 08:31 AM

Might try looking at the vcore and frequency of the highest chip it supports and try not to go past that.

luckskywalker7

01-31-2008, 12:45 PM

Good thinking. Highest it clocks is 2.8ghz with the vcore being i think 1.35. I have a x2 4000+ 65nm so it runs pretty cool having a TDP of 65w. Max for this board is like 95w before you see rainbow colored flames around you cpu.

Manicdan

01-31-2008, 01:40 PM

enzotech 14mm in width most likely it will fit...
so 65w plus added vcore (lets say 1.55v) wont burn at all?!

i had my 5000be at 3.36ghz at 1.5v and got burnt. so i wouldnt recommend it. i would stay at 1.45v tops, and keep it at 3.2ghz or less

madfaze

01-31-2008, 04:49 PM

i had my 5000be at 3.36ghz at 1.5v and got burnt. so i wouldnt recommend it. i would stay at 1.45v tops, and keep it at 3.2ghz or less

i see..good thing i just replaced my mobo and i will get the platinum later...:D

anyhow what board are you using right now?

Russ_64

06-17-2008, 08:48 AM

Well it's been a while now, so just wanted to let you know that my K9A2 CF-F v1 is still running fine and is folding 24/7!! Phenom 9600 B2 is running at stock speed / volts.

There is now a v2 which will run 125w CPU but as the PCB is still labeled v1.0 it is tricky to know what you will get now, anyhow I have purchased the K9A2 Neo-F for my new Phenom 9850 Black Edition 125w CPU as I don't need CF anyway. I will start with one HD3870 and maybe upgrade to HD48xx or GTX280 later.

informal

06-17-2008, 09:19 AM

Good luck Russ_64 and post results with new MSI mobo :)

doompc

07-24-2008, 06:12 PM

Since looks like there is no other K9A2 CF Thread, I'll use this one.

Just got one for a review and it's doing pretty well.
Got the 9850 to 240MHz base clock on lower multiplier.
And I found that the HT Multiplier controls the NB multiplier, I raised it to 11x and the CPU-Z says 2200MHz. :)

The VRM looks a little weak, I'm scared to get heavy overclocking with this board, so I won't touch the vcore setting.
This Phenom goes up to 2.7GHz on stock volts, in order to squeeze it a little more I raised the NB mult to 11x and the HTT base clock to 216MHz.

The result is:
CPU Clock: 2700MHz
NB Clock: 2376MHz
RAM Clock: 576MHz (5-5-5-15 2,0v)

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/7528/ccpuzphpry6.png
http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=393682

I'll post some benchs later. ;)

PS. I use a Thermalright XP90 mounted "backwards" to cool the VRM:
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/3460/montadotw7.jpg

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/7628/xp90rj7.jpg

doompc

07-25-2008, 09:15 PM

Finally got it stable:

Cores: 11x240 = 2640MHz
NB: 10x240 = 2400MHz
HTT: 10x240 = 2400MHz
RAM: 240 1:2 = 480MHz (DDR2-960 5-5-5-15)

http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/4830/everest240sf7.gif

Temps @ full load:

http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/7923/prime240wg9.th.gif (http://img133.imageshack.us/my.php?image=prime240wg9.gif)