Still Running Hot: Lapped Q6600 + Apogee GT

[foodfightr]

Apogee GT
Laing DDC Pump (Petra Modded)
Thermochill PA120.3 Radiator
MCW-60 GPU Block
D-Tek Barbs
1/2" ID Tygon Lab Grade

Ok so I just lapped my IHS and my APOGEE GT. Not the best job in the entire world. I tried to apply even pressure for a couple minutes at 320/400/600/800/1000. I took the nickel off and smoothed the copper the best I could with 1000 grit. It still has some very fine scratches from the sand paper. Its "mirror-like" but certainly not the high gloss mega polished pics that end up on this site. Probably good enough though. :confused:

I'm using coollaboratory pro liquid metal. At first I started with a very very thin layer carefully spread across the CPU. I guess it wasn't enough because my temps were horrible. I opened it up and squeezed a blob of the liquid metal at the middle of the CPU and used the pressure of the APOGEE GT to allow it to spread out naturally. Temps were somewhat better. I'm considering switching to AS5 or what came with the APOGEE GT because it is laying around. Coollaboratory pro is hard to work with and I'm never sure if its working right or not.

Completely loaded Q6600 at (1.5v bios, 1.48v CPU-Z) is giving me roughly 61/62/60/60 temperatures according to core temp. ASUS PC PROBE II only gives one CPU number and is roughly always just a couple degrees higher.

Did I just get a really hot chip? Botched lapping job? Not enough water flow?
Or do these temperatures seem pretty accurate.... :confused:

[KiD0M4N]

These temps are at 4G right? If yes then the temps are perfectly fine for 1.48V and 4G :) :)

[Isriam]

i hit 66c today on 1.45v and 3.6ghz on my q6600. why are you worried about your temps, they are fine.

holy :banana::banana::banana::banana: i see that you are at 4.0ghz, and you're complaining about 60c? haha

[foodfightr]

Yep thats 4G.... Does the speed have anything to do with the temp? I thought its volts only.

[Isriam]

yes speed has a lot to do with temp.

do this, set your voltage to 1.400v and FSB to 266 or 300 and check your temps. then set your FSB to 400 and check your temps.

[vitriol_drinker]

Yep thats 4G.... Does the speed have anything to do with the temp? I thought its volts only.

You have to add a "seal" (google trad from "joint" in french) between the base and the top to get the bowed base :)
Also, try to lapp it with paper from 1000 to 2000 grit temps would be better

[Bail_w]

Your temperatures is fine, if you want improvement, change your waterblock to d-tek.

[KaptCrunch]

Ok so I just lapped my IHS and my APOGEE GT. Not the best job in the entire world. I tried to apply even pressure for a couple minutes at 320/400/600/800/1000. I took the nickel off and smoothed the copper the best I could with 1000 grit. It still has some very fine scratches from the sand paper. Its "mirror-like" but certainly not the high gloss mega polished pics that end up on this site. Probably good enough though. :confused:

when sanding use chuck of flat glass/marble and distilled water for wet sanding.
wipe with clean cloth each step of grit change, then buff with clean terry cloth brings it to mirror finish

[foodfightr]

According to a review hosted on this site (link (http://www.xtremesystems.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Reviews&file=index&req=showcontent&id=39))
bowing an apogee gt not only kicks the crap out of the flat block, it also puts it on par with the D-Tek Fuzion.

I found similar results in this thread. (link (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=131297))

My question is this- I believe the that the bowing works because of the rounded shape of intel's IHS. If I've lapped the IHS and the CPU BLOCK- shouldn't using the flat (not bowed) mounting work best?

when sanding use chuck of flat glass/marble and distilled water for wet sanding.
wipe with clean cloth each step of grit change, then buff with clean terry cloth brings it to mirror finish

Hmm... for my apogee gt I used a flat sanding block and did it while it was connected. I'd hate to have to drain my loop but I may have to if I attempt to bow it. I wonder if I could zip tie my 1/2" ID tygon tubes really tight long enough to hold the water and while I disconnect the apogee.... No idea

BTW- Grats on 1000th post!

[rogard]

1.45v through a quad at 4ghz..your temps are pretty good.

remember that the quad has a higher tjunction than the c2d so your good up to about 80C

[Isriam]

bowed will always work best because of the pressure placed on the IHS from the bow.

the bowed GT kicks the crap out of the fuzion, if its a stock flat fuzion. bowing a fuzion and adding nozzles can't be touched.

also, fuzion has better flow rate than other blocks, so thats why people use it.

honestly you're fine with what you have.

[nikhsub1]

My question is this- I believe the that the bowing works because of the rounded shape of intel's IHS. If I've lapped the IHS and the CPU BLOCK- shouldn't using the flat (not bowed) mounting work best?
No, your idea is wrong. Bowing or stepping a block will work better no matter what on an IHS CPU, no matter if the IHS is flat or not. Flat is best though. The principal is that you get more pressure in the CENTER of the IHS with a bowed or stepped block. For example, take your hands and make them both flat and press them together. How much pressure do you feel in the center of your palm? Now, take your left hand and make a point with all 5 fingers. Now press that point into the palm of your right hand. See the difference?

[foodfightr]

No, your idea is wrong. Bowing or stepping a block will work better no matter what on an IHS CPU, no matter if the IHS is flat or not. Flat is best though. The principal is that you get more pressure in the CENTER of the IHS with a bowed or stepped block. For example, take your hands and make them both flat and press them together. How much pressure do you feel in the center of your palm? Now, take your left hand and make a point with all 5 fingers. Now press that point into the palm of your right hand. See the difference?

Haha very graphical, but thank you for spelling it out. Makes perfect sense.

Any tips on extracting the Apogee GT from the loop without having to drain it?

I've also heard rumors that swiftech is shipping apogee gts that are bowed by default (stock). I wonder if I had that and accidently lapped it flat. :(

[MF Traum]

I had my GT with the normal o-ring by default but the package included thicker one too for bowing.

[nikhsub1]

Haha very graphical, but thank you for spelling it out. Makes perfect sense.

Any tips on extracting the Apogee GT from the loop without having to drain it?

I've also heard rumors that swiftech is shipping apogee gts that are bowed by default (stock). I wonder if I had that and accidently lapped it flat. :(
May be tough to take out the block without having to drain and refill. I use these plastic Stanley clamps that work well, I do lose a bit of fluid but not much.

[foodfightr]

May be tough to take out the block without having to drain and refill. I use these plastic Stanley clamps that work well, I do lose a bit of fluid but not much.

Can you link me the home depot link? I'm going to give it a shot... I'll put down some towels and hopefully it won't be too bad.

[Eddie3dfx]

My B3 x3210 which is the q6600's little brother, also runs like a power demon
(260watts, 1.537v)
I have mine at 3520mhz with an apogee gt, mcr320, d5, and mcw30 in the loop, (yate loon 88cfm push, silverstone 110cfm pull)
mx2 (unfortunately I did the spread, before I read that review posted in the news section about the blob)

I'll post core temp in a sec

Case Temp Sensor (28c)
Core temp idle (1c degree fluctuation)
44c
44c
44c
44c

Running orthos beta twice (small fft stress cpu)
62c
61c
60c
61c

I think your temps are good, especially for have a gpu in the loop as well.

I agree with the post above, your temps are fine, unless you switch to a bow, gtx, or fuzion, your temps would improve all that much.

[foodfightr]

So I've been priming and I got it up to 66/66/64/64 and the computer just shot off... Do you think its a temperature related thing that the motherboard kicks off after a certain point?

Or instability related..?

[Isriam]

dude 66c is average :P be worried when you hit 70,80,85c. you crashed due to instability im sure. your cpu will start throttling back once you get near 90c.

[Bail_w]

unstable, which may causes by a lots of factors such as north/south bridge too hot or ram.

[Xilikon]

Look in the bios to see if there is a shutdown over 65C option. If yes, just raise the limit to 75C and try again.

[Eddie3dfx]

Good question. It could even be memory related actually.
If I set my memory to a weird settings, orthos will eventually crash.
My temps were as high as yours and I tried lowering the vcore a little bit and it lowered the temps as well.
Try lowering your vcore as well as the mhz on the memory and run a dual orthos.
Can I ask where I can download prime? The one I have doesn't even push my cores at all.
Download sensorsview or speedfan and see what all the computer temps are at.

[Isriam]

google prime95 25.5

[Waterlogged]

Sounds like a CPU forced shutdown to me. The Thermal Spec on a Q6600 B3 is 62.2ºC.

[Eddie3dfx]

Thanks Isriam, I'm running it now.
all 4 core temps are changing
from 61-67c no crashes, typing on here like it's nothing.
Dual Orthos before would crash on me at around 65c, so I believe the reason for crashing was due to ram instability.
Messed with the settings until it could gain stability.

I could the imagine the northbridge could crash as well without proper cooling.

[foodfightr]

Ram is only rated to DDR 800 and is running at 445. I have some DDR 1000 on the way tomorrow so I'll be able to rule the ram out. Hmmm, didn't see an auto shut off option.

[Eddie3dfx]

445?
I think you mean double date rate (445 x 2 = 890mhz)
Try changing the settings back down to 800mhz with normal timing
Also, I guess the better question is, do you have any problems with prime shutting down if you lets say, boot at 3200mhz?

[foodfightr]

445?
I think you mean double date rate (445 x 2 = 890mhz)
Try changing the settings back down to 800mhz with normal timing


Yeah, thats what I mean.

DDR 800 Stock, Running DDR 890. I'll be upgrading to DDR 1000 memory tomorrow.

System primes for about 15 min then computer shuts down entirely.

[Eddie3dfx]

Well it's unstable.
Try isolating everything by running tests with changed settings.
Stock memory, lower vcore, different memory timings, make sure the nb/sb don't get too high, lower the mhz settings.
If you can isolate the problem, then you can fix it.
In all honesty, I don't think it's actually the physical heat of the cores on the cpu.
I was ablet to fix my shutdowns by changing the memory timings. Then I was able to lower my core temps slightly, by lower the voltage.

[foodfightr]

My APOGEE GT block didn't come with a bigger o-ring. I got it back in July and still have all of the accessories, manuals, etc in a bag. Chances are slim that I lost it.

[Isriam]

maybe i missed it, but a 737B is going to be a G0 stepping, plus 4ghz with that voltage and temps it has to be G0.

i'd say work on your stability and keep an eye on temps, but your temps are perfect.

[Xilikon]

The cpu batch doesn't guarantee a G0, it must have SLACR as the box code.

I saw some B3 released a few weeks after G0 releases ;)

[foodfightr]

maybe i missed it, but a 737B is going to be a G0 stepping, plus 4ghz with that voltage and temps it has to be G0.

i'd say work on your stability and keep an eye on temps, but your temps are perfect.

So stability wise what would you suggest?

[Isriam]

uh theres a million things. set your ram to its rated speeds (800mhz 4-4-4-12-2T) or whatever the rating is, and work strictly on FSB / MHZ for your cpu only. once you get it as fast as you can go, then deal with ram.

4ghz on a quad core is VERY good. most people with your cpu max at 3.6 including myself. I can hit 4ghz but it isn't stable.

[Mordorr]

Hello all!

I did use the bigger o-ring, to make a Bowling efect:

http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/5234/img1304640x480il4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I have my Q6600 G0, like this:

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/8697/3500qi8.png (http://imageshack.us)

At full, it goes until 64º ( Prime 95 ):rolleyes:

I hope i did help...:up:

[dude_500]

I'm starting to get tired of overclocking :( It's like everything I do runs worse than everybody else. And it's not just this build. I had an old E6420 on WATER and I couldn't get it past 3.3ghz even with voltage (wtf?) - that was also a different mobo with chipset on water

Now I have a Q6600 (g0) under apogee GT, 220rad, and only an X38 bridge in the loop with it, and I'm running a mere 3.4ghz at 1.36V and it loads at 57/57/53/54!!! It's like I'm doing something wrong but I just don't get it. I've lapped everything, remounted a countless number of times, redone the loop, I just can't figure it out.

[Fush]

I'm starting to get tired of overclocking :( It's like everything I do runs worse than everybody else. And it's not just this build. I had an old E6420 on WATER and I couldn't get it past 3.3ghz even with voltage (wtf?) - that was also a different mobo with chipset on water

Now I have a Q6600 (g0) under apogee GT, 220rad, and only an X38 bridge in the loop with it, and I'm running a mere 3.4ghz at 1.36V and it loads at 57/57/53/54!!! It's like I'm doing something wrong but I just don't get it. I've lapped everything, remounted a countless number of times, redone the loop, I just can't figure it out.

what fans are on the 220?

that cpu is outputting 159w according to this (http://www.extreme.outervision.com/tools.jsp#cpuoc).

That plus pump heat and the northbridge could be to much...


All depends on the fan cfm...

[dude_500]

what fans are on the 220?

that cpu is outputting 159w according to this (http://www.extreme.outervision.com/tools.jsp#cpuoc).

That plus pump heat and the northbridge could be to much...


All depends on the fan cfm...


I have really low cfm fans that are totally silent, but I always thought putting super fast ones on would still only make it 2-3 degs better. It's a Swiftech 350 pump so it shouldn't be that much heat. I don't really have any other fans to try I don't think, but I can put on some really fast 80's and see if it changes anything.

[Isriam]

mine runs about 66c max fully loaded overnight. i won't break 70c but i don't mind getting up to it.

[vavtnen]

which local store carry sand paper with 1000 grit or more?

thanks

[Nate P.]

which local store carry sand paper with 1000 grit or more?

thanks
Ace Hardware (at least in my town) or Kragen Auto.

[vavtnen]

ok thanks... ill check out ace hardware store tomorrow

[Crazykooter]

Best ace hardware carries is 1500 grit. I just lapped my cpu and got my sand paper from there. I need to find some where that has 2000 grit emery paper. Lapping for me didnt really help all that much. I think my problem is due to apogee block orientation. I am gonna remount it different this weekend and relap the base of block and cpu. Your shutdowns sound like something other then cpu. More like north bridge or ram issue. Since I am running the gtx extreme block I am not sure if my load temps will help but I will post a screen just so u can get an idea. My ambient temp is around 18c for this test so you can see how I am so low. I am sure I can get lower. btw 1.5vcore in the bios.
I have a screen of my temps at load with my water box outside which is at 4c right now. Basically I load at 44-45c on higher 2 cores. Gotta love winter.

http://rapidshare.com/files/79610131/12_hrs_Prime95_all_4_cores._3840_mhz_resized.jpg

[Eddie3dfx]

When you guys place tim on the quad, I'm curious to what leads to better results?
A little rice kernel in the middle? a cross, a line between the two quads, or a little rice kernel on each core?
Isn't a little kernel just that, too little?
What I did is just spread a thin coat along the entire top, but from what I'm seeing it may not have been the best idea

[Philly_Boy]

Best ace hardware carries is 1500 grit. I just lapped my cpu and got my sand paper from there. I need to find some where that has 2000 grit emery paper. Lapping for me didnt really help all that much. I think my problem is due to apogee block orientation. I am gonna remount it different this weekend and relap the base of block and cpu. Your shutdowns sound like something other then cpu. More like north bridge or ram issue. Since I am running the gtx extreme block I am not sure if my load temps will help but I will post a screen just so u can get an idea. My ambient temp is around 18c for this test so you can see how I am so low. I am sure I can get lower. btw 1.5vcore in the bios.
I have a screen of my temps at load with my water box outside which is at 4c right now. Basically I load at 44-45c on higher 2 cores. Gotta love winter.

http://rapidshare.com/files/79610131/12_hrs_Prime95_all_4_cores._3840_mhz_resized.jpg

Although they look very pretty when shiny from 2000 grit we lap our CPu's for flatness. I will tell you that you will never get a Swiftech block flatter than it comes from the factory by hand lapping it. They guarantee something like +/- 0.0092" of flat. They use a nice motor driven lapping table and diamond paste to get them really close to flat.

[Waterlogged]

Although they look very pretty when shiny from 2000 grit we lap our CPu's for flatness. I will tell you that you will never get a Swiftech block flatter than it comes from the factory by hand lapping it. They guarantee something like +/- 0.0092" of flat. They use a nice motor driven lapping table and diamond paste to get them really close to flat.

:up: :yepp: :clap:

+1 QFT/QFA


This needs to be said louder and more often IMO. Far too many ppl misunderstand why lapping is done and get carried away lapping everything in sight thinking it will drop temps.

I'll also point out that hand lapping should only be done on a Granite surface plate, they can be had fairly cheap (http://www.wttool.com/category-exec/category_id/17550/nm/Precsion_Black_Granite_Surface_Plates) and are guaranteed flatter and smoother than any piece of glass you can get your hands on.

[dude_500]

Which O-Ring should be used with a lapped quad and a swiftech apogee GT? I have the larger one that came in the package in right now but now I'm thinking with a lapped cpu it might be better to use the smaller stock ring?

[Philly_Boy]

Which O-Ring should be used with a lapped quad and a swiftech apogee GT? I have the larger one that came in the package in right now but now I'm thinking with a lapped cpu it might be better to use the smaller stock ring?

I have had better results with using the larger O-ring when the cpu is lapped. that combo gave me the best temps by a degree or two. Also if you use coretemp you'll see a more uniform temp across all four cores if the lapping and remount is done correctly. My lapped E6300 boots to 23c on both cores....while my unlapped quad boots to 32/31/32/31c...