30lbs of which refrigerant?

[teyber]

hello!
I am getting full 608 certified, hopefully, over Christmas break. I am hoping to buy 25 or 30lbs of refrigerant. i was hoping you guys could help me out from personal experience. These are the refrigerants i am looking at:
r402a
r507a
r404a
prices:
The r404a(24lbs) is ~$239
The r507a(25lbs) is ~$296
the R402a(27lbs) is ~$372

I see that the general consensus is r507a, however it seems to me that this refrigerant is a little expensive for the temperatures that it delivers. Good pressures.
R402a delivers very low temperatures, However also very high pressures correct? I can get 1/2lbs of the stuff at a time, should i perhaps try it out and if i can "handle" it buy a large quantity? only downside is 372$ is a lot of cash :yepp: but i can handle it if it would benefit my builds.
R404a seems to be a cheap gas that delivers better temps then r507a (this could be false, is this true or no?) and i am not sure on pressures. 24lbs is on the small side but 239$ is pleasing for what appears to be good temperatures.

Some other info needed:
what oil, Mineral or Alkylbenzene oil for each refrigerant?

Advice is greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance for answers!

Reed Teyber

[killermiller]

r507 is slightly colder then r404. r404 has r134 in it to help carry oil. People use propane along with r507 to help it carry oil. R402 is expensive. About the same price here and if a few C is worth it to you then get that.

[teyber]

Thanks for reply. So r-404a and r507a have same oil? What oil does r402a have?

[DarthBeavis]

Thanks for reply. So r-404a and r507a have same oil? What oil does r402a have?
KY . . .

[teyber]

KY . . .

Never heard of Ky oil... when i google it i get Kentucky oil

[DetroitAC]

The theoretical performance of 507 and 402a are so close @ -40C that it's a toss up which will be better performing. Mixing a little something in with 507 is a bit silly when you can just buy 404A. Given those choices and prices, I'd go for 404a. It's just a smidge lower performance than 507.

[teyber]

Thanks DetroitAC. However i thought r404a and r507a had the same oil's? can i use r404a on a r-22 compressor or do i need to switch oil? I read somewhere that r404a is mineral oil, is this true?

thanks for all your help.

[the_new_guy]

402a use AB or POE and mineral +

http://www.refrigerants.com/hcfc-r402a.htm

[teyber]

Sweet!

That means i dont' need to change oil in a r-22 compressor correct?

:yepp:

[Marvin]

Depends if the compressor comes with mineral oil.

[tim-]

a r22 compressor is charged with mineral oil, r402 use mineral as well.

with those prices, I would go for r404. performance difference between r404 and r507 depends more about tuning then refrigerant. ~0,1K difference in boiling temp and capacity is almost the same.

r402 may give you 2-3K lower temp but I would say it's not worth the extra cost...

r404 and r507 use same oil, POE oil.

[teyber]

So sounds like r404a can be used with POE, mineral, or alkybenzene(cannot spell) oil?

[killermiller]

nope. r404 needs POE.

402a can use any of the three

[[XC] 2long4u]

KY is sex lube dude.

[teyber]

KY is sex lube dude.

I have yet to meet a girl my age who is a is loose/dry, Hopefully i this won't be in the cardgame untill im older. (talking fresh at my age :up: )
But lets not go off topic here...

[n00b 0f l337]

Now detroit, I've found that adding r290 into a unit charged to best temp at a given load often results in a reduction of low side pressure and better temperatures as well as a cooler compressor. Charging with r507a then fine tuning with r290 is even better!

[DetroitAC]

Oops, sorry I know how much you guys like the mixing. I didn't mean to pee in the koolaid.

[n00b 0f l337]

Only thing I'll mix is that :P
I dun see how r402a and r410a mix and such and haven't tried.

[runmc]

Oops, sorry I know how much you guys like the mixing. I didn't mean to pee in the koolaid.

Yeah but mixing sounds so scientific :gay: Peeing in koolaid sounds scientic too . :lol2:

[PhilippF]

Hey teyber,

it depends on which compressor you are going to use. For NL11 units (where HP pressure is important to keep below 15.8 barg), I would recommend 404a, as it has only slightly worse temps than 507 but gives a lower HP due to the 134a in it.

If you plan on using old rotaries (which are designed for R22), I would give it a thought if you want to use R22 (its the cheapest refrigerant I know) and you would not have to change the oil. I know, I know: It has some little ODP, but if you recover properly, and so on, and its only for personal use...

Regards,

Philipp

[teyber]

Hey teyber,

it depends on which compressor you are going to use. For NL11 units (where HP pressure is important to keep below 15.8 barg), I would recommend 404a, as it has only slightly worse temps than 507 but gives a lower HP due to the 134a in it.

If you plan on using old rotaries (which are designed for R22), I would give it a thought if you want to use R22 (its the cheapest refrigerant I know) and you would not have to change the oil. I know, I know: It has some little ODP, but if you recover properly, and so on, and its only for personal use...

Regards,

Philipp
yes im starting off with rotaries. I will be recovering some r22 from something soon, but really i want a lower temperature better performing phase.

Perhaps down the line i will switch over to hermetic/semi hermetic, but for my personal use i don't mind the noise. Changing oil is a biotch though...
Found out the best oil for r404a is polyester oil.

How hard is it to change oil in rotaries? i know its very hard, but is it overwhelming?

[godmod]

On some Rotaries it is not really possible. If the Rotary has an oil port it easy.

[teyber]

Drewmeister is highly recomending r402a, because of performance and becuase i won't have to change oil on rotaries. Does this make sense?

Reed

[Sneil]

Hey Reed:)
Here's an oil chart for all the different types of refrigerants and what they're compatible with.
http://www.refron.com/InfoCenter/TechData/Honeywell_Replacement_Guide.pdf

Find out what oil the compressor has in it and you'll know if that's right. Sounds like it's charged with Alkylbenzene.

[teyber]

Hey Reed:)
Here's an oil chart for all the different types of refrigerants and what they're compatible with.
http://www.refron.com/InfoCenter/TechData/Honeywell_Replacement_Guide.pdf

Find out what oil the compressor has in it and you'll know if that's right. Sounds like it's charged with Alkylbenzene.
thanks mate!
The chart isn't working for me, but grabbed a chart at the local johnstone supply. Says r402a/b is compatible with both alkylbenzene and POE oils.:cool: next time i drop by my dads house ill check. Also says r-22 is either mineral, alkylbenzene, or polyolester. Lets hope for AB or POE:yepp:

Thanks for the help mate

Reed

[Sneil]

Yea, 507 and 404 are POE only, an r22 compressor probably is charged with mineral oil or alkylbenzene.

[Moc]

Drewmeister is highly recomending r402a, because of performance and becuase i won't have to change oil on rotaries. Does this make sense?

Reed

Of course that makes sense.... i love this gas because of oil compatibily.

But if you buy R404A you can use this in your rotarys and add R290 - that will transport your oil. R290 and R404A have quite the same BP (R404A is around 2K better) so it won't be a bad mix.....

If you have the money, go for R402A (btw. you can use R404A/R507 TVX, i tried this and everything is fine).

[PhilippF]

Hey Reed:)
Here's an oil chart for all the different types of refrigerants and what they're compatible with.
http://www.refron.com/InfoCenter/TechData/Honeywell_Replacement_Guide.pdf

Find out what oil the compressor has in it and you'll know if that's right. Sounds like it's charged with Alkylbenzene.

Hey! Great guide which oil fits which refrigerant! *** J I N U **** Please add this guide to the stickies somewhere ?

Regards,

Philipp

[Sneil]

Thanks, although i made a mistake in saying "all" the different types of refrigerants but the important one's are there.

[jinu117]

Skipped my eye on this one... might have such somewhere but will sticky it... :) Thanks Sneil. :)

[Marvin]

Here in Brazil thr 402a cost less than 507A. maybe woth to buy it ?
http://www.crprado.com.br/loja/produtos.asp?lang=pt_BR&tipo_busca=categoria&codigo_categoria=4

[teyber]

thread revival lol!

i got the r402a, but then found a deal on r507a so know i have both :) thanks for l ink though