NEW PHASE CHANGER!!! first time build.!!

[subzeronick]

hi all this is my first :D build check it out all these pic it is runninghttp://img518.imageshack.us/img518/919/picture011ep8.jpg http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/1097/picture012mq8.jpg http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/1920/picture016hn9.jpg

[subzeronick]

here is shows my heat exchanger that i made. heres some pic at temp!!!

[subzeronick]

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/274/picture020wh8.jpg http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/3488/picture025ng2.jpg

[[XC] gomeler]

Oh how I love first builds :yepp: Looks like you have a solid suction line, such a pain in the but to work with but a great start. Just curious with that condenser, is it operating such that the tube passes are going up and down rather than horizontal? If so then you'll have issues with oil and refrigerant pooling in the bottom on the tubes. Otherwise looks like a great start, what diameter cap-tube, compressor, and refrigerant are you using? Congrats on the build :up:

Looks seriously undercharged also but I guess you were just going for lowest evap temperatures. You'll want to get it so that it's frosting nearly all the way to the compressor under load as a good place to start for tuning.

[subzeronick]

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/7083/picture026ax2.jpg http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/5886/comp009yr8.jpg new pic's

[subzeronick]

ok they are up and down but every thing that i have is out of a frezzer form a motorhome and is set the way it came out. now on cap tube i could not find the right size intill now, but right now it is a 1/8 od into a 3 in. of .026 id but the way i have it. it should be about the same as haveing 12 feet of .026 id.

[subzeronick]

it is a 1/8 hp r12 pump that is charge with r420 thats right r420 http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/5805/5618ou8.jpg pic is upside down

[subzeronick]

ill get pics of full charge wich i had it charged but had some problems and need help

[PhilippF]

420A ??? Quite extraordinary :)

Congrats! Nice first build, especially that you made it out of scratch and it works. Usually, this ends in a "My first unit is not running"-thread (me included).

Regards,

Philipp

[jinu117]

Does that condenser have parallel path? If not.... definitely not a good way to use the condenser... orientation is off... And temp is far too low for R-420 as I have mentioned in PM :P (It's warmer gas than R-134a).

[mytekcontrols]

And temp is far too low for R-420 as I have mentioned in PM :P (It's warmer gas than R-134a)

I never heard of R-420A and this got me curious.

The R-420A MSDS (http://www.rmsgas.com/choicer421amsds.htm) shows it with a boiling point of -40.4F (-40F = -40C). When compared with R-12 (http://www.refrigerants.com/msds/r12.pdf) (boiling point = -29.8C), or R-134A (http://www.rmsgas.com/quickchangemsds.htm) (boiling point = -26.5C). It would appear that R-420A is the colder gas, and probably a very reasonable one to use for a Single-Stage unit, unless I'm missing something.

[subzeronick]

ill try and get some pic of it all together

[jinu117]

Hmmm seems like I got wrong paper on the other link... time to search more.
Nope I was right... Mytek... that MSDS you are showing is some how incorrect it seems. Could someone have mistyped R-421A into R-420A? :)
Edited... now I am getting even more confused, time to search more again...

[[XC] gomeler]

Mytek's linked MSDS says both R-421 and R-420, it looks like someone screwed up on the data entry.

[jinu117]

http://www.freezonerb276.com/FZPRESSURE.htm was original link I worked off from.
Now, http://www.santech.com/reference/index.cfm?action=view&pdfid=15
mentions differnent composition of it unlike what Mytek supplied MSDS shows again.
http://www.refrigerant-supply.com/references/r-12.htm
too.
I am thinking Michael's link is at fault after finding so many saying composition is R-134a + R142b (not R-125).
Now back on the topic, since you have very low temperature for system, it sounds like you are WELL in vacuum to achieve it. Could be too restrictive cap tubing (be it partially blocked or just restrictive to begin with).

[PhilippF]

R-125: Pentaflourethane

R-142B: 1-chloro-1,1-diflourethane

R-134a: 1,1,1,2-tetraflourethane

So as you can see on the bottle its R134a and R142B like Jinu stated.

And also "replaces R134a" LOL

EDIT:

"R142b (1-chloro-1,1-difluoroethane, CClF2CH3)

Critical Temperature = 137.1 °C
Critical Pressure = 4055 kPa
Boiling Point (at 1atm) = -9.1 °C
Temperature Glide = 0.0 °C
Vapor Specific Volume = 0.7981 m³/kg
Liquid Density = 1445.6 kg/m³
Latent Heat = 245.6 kJ/kgK"

EDIT2:

"R420A (R134A / R142B, 0.8800 / 0.1200)

Critical Temperature = 104.8 °C
Critical Pressure = 4086 kPa
Boiling Point (at 1atm) = -24.9 °C
Temperature Glide = 0.6 °C
Vapor Specific Volume = 0.3963 m³/kg
Liquid Density = 1501.7 kg/m³
Latent Heat = 229.8 kJ/kgK"

[PhilippF]

... and that one:

[subzeronick]

man i wish i was as smart as you guys

[PhilippF]

Do this hobby for a few months, talk to your girlfriend only about pressures and temperatures, give her a 3-stage-cascade for valentine´s day and soon you will be as smart as the rest of us :)

EDIT: BTT: As stated on the bottle, this ref. also contains "Naphtenic lubricant". is it possible, it was used as a drop-in replacement for R-12 Car-ACs? No other ref. I know contains already "lubricant"...

[subzeronick]

well they said it was a refer not a car but than i hard it can be used for both and is a dropin for r12 or 134a

[jinu117]

refrigerant is refrigerant :)
Now rework the cap tubing to something more sane :P

[subzeronick]

well at the time it was the only thing i could find and it works ok i guess. but yes i am wanting to chang the only problem no one around here has the right stuff ording it is out cuz last time i did that some one got my card number took over 10,000 from me and still have not gotton it back becuase the bank said they are looking into it.

[subzeronick]

and it was ebay they got the card form

[jinu117]

Where are you located at?

[bassie]

Is this it?

420 p/t (http://www.rmsgas.com/choicer420apressuretemperature.htm)
msds (http://www.rmsgas.com/choicer420amsds.htm)

In mytek's link (http://www.rmsgas.com/choicer421amsds.htm) i see "The Easy Choice Refrigerant R-421A MSDS" and "Product Name: Choice R-420A Refrigerant" but if i go to "Pressure Temp (http://www.rmsgas.com/choicer421apressuretemperature.htm)" is see " Choice Refrigerant R-421A Replaces R-22 in Multiple Stationary Applications"

I think it is just a typing error on the site. R-420A instead of R-421A

[PhilippF]

Yup, thats the one.

[teyber]

great work! but -58c is pretty low for r420/1/8hp... Hp doesn't really mean anything but it hints that its a lower powered compressor. not that its bad, just those temps are crazy XD once you get it tuned, id like to see cpu temp.

Great, great great first build!

Reed

[n00b 0f l337]

Well those are definitly undercharged temps. And unloaded too.

[subzeronick]

not done yet

[subzeronick]

not do yet

[teyber]

like i said before, (not trying to be thread nazi XD) instead of posting lots of times with short sentences consecutively, you should re-read your posts before posting. And if you still catch a mistake you can click the edit button...

[[XC] gomeler]

void postCountPlusPlus() {
while(posts < 100){
posts = posts + 1;
ePeen = ePeen + 10;
post = "arble garble garf";
printf(post);
}
}//end void postCountPlusPlus()

I do believe subzeronick has discovered the above method and is swiftly executing it multiple times to great effect. Sorry.. I'm churning through a few thousand lines of C code and thought I'd bring school to the forums :yepp:

Back on topic, what length/diameter is that cap-tube? asked before but I guess you didn't read what I wrote.

[jinu117]

Well, why don't you send him a friendly PM instead of posting code... :P
I understand but I doubt propsective party does.
Let's see,
ePeen seems public or global variable? Ahaha.... (you should have made classes as well;P)
it was something like 30ft of 1/8 od tubing... No one really knows what kind of flow rate it has...
The problem I see with that is the flow characteristic due to such large size of inner wall (which brings different factor of equation for "calculating" the cap tube characteristics to begin with) as well as length. Not to mention... imagine amount of saturated gas/liquid sitting in there... -_-; (more volume than on evap). What he is having problem might not be actually cap tubing being restrictive but just not having enough refrigerant to fill it up nicely (as well as having condenser that can put that much liquid in there).
Really hard to diagnose as those numbers are way out of what we are familiar with (or anyone to be honest).

[Xeon th MG Pony]

All so did you pugre while brazing?

I see no filter drier on there and if you didn't purge while brazing get some one to recover the refrigerant and that whole thing needs to be either scraped or totaly flushed out and cleaned with new oil!

[[XC] gomeler]

Well, why don't you send him a friendly PM instead of posting code... :P
I understand but I doubt propsective party does.
Let's see,
ePeen seems public or global variable? Ahaha.... (you should have made classes as well;P)

Because I couldn't resist :D 30 feet huh, that is.. nuts :yepp:

[jinu117]

Oh and one more thing, if my eye isn't blind... I think condenser is configured on up and down flow.... as is...
(which some sample I received long time ago from someone who is supposedly knowledgable about fluid dynamics, etc ended up having and never really got used due to the construction... - one was tested with so much problem -)

[subzeronick]

ok i have change the condenser and i do have a filter drier i did purge and today i am going to change cap tube
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/6914/comp013lv2.jpg http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/7500/comp014qz4.jpg http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/6595/comp023mp2.jpg

[Xeon th MG Pony]

Ok good! Your onto a good start!

[Supertim0r]

is that soft solder on the condenser and suction/compressor ?

[[XC] 2long4u]

Was the condenser the condenser or the evaporator in the freezer? Evaporators commonly go up and down.