4.7Ghz Wolfdale on air

[Shintai]

Not sure if its been posted before.

4.7Ghz Wolfdale stable on air

http://forums.tweaktown.com/showthread.php?t=25544

[Hornet331]

yes i think it has been posted in the intel section. ;) (not everything is in the news section. :) )

[RaZz!]

arrwww, are those little "gewgaw-cats" supposed to be wolves (wolfdale...)? hehe

[FghtinIrshNvrDi]

that 9x multi is really looking like it's worth it. CURSE the 1333 fsb!

Ryan

[grimREEFER]

i just did a little quick math in my head.
at this frequency, i believe the dual core wolfdales are actually faster than the 4 core phenoms at stock. :shocked:

[[XC] gomeler]

.... seriously? Looks like I don't need to finish this cascade to break 10 seconds in SPi :(
*grabs sledgehammer*

[Hornet331]

gomeler;2563902'].... seriously? Looks like I don't need to finish this cascade to break 10 seconds in SPi :(
*grabs sledgehammer*

nobody stops you to aim for sub 9. :yepp: :D

[RPGWiZaRD]

:shocked: :eek2:

I might choose an E8400 after all if Wolfdale clocks this nicely. 4.3~4.5GHz stable would be nice and starts sounding like a reality now (not only a speculation). :D

It's not like Yorkfield isn't attractive either but it's too expensive for my liking and the first affordable version would be Q9450 which only have a 8x multi and with 8x multi you'll get mobo/FSB wall limited with these overclocking beasts. If I go Yorkfield I'd really want a 8.5x multi minimum but 9x wouldn't hurt either. So 3.7~3.9GHz quad for quite a lot more $$$ or a E8400 dual for a lot less $$$ and 4.3~4.5GHz. I think I'm slightly more favor of the latter.

[Speederlander]

If consumer chips do this, then 24/7 5 GHz+ on phase with the 8500 should be a reality. I am leaning toward a dual core for this reason. The benefits are huge, 2 cores + 45nm means very low heat generation even at high frequencies and vcore allowing for a 250W tuned phase to really get in there and do some cooling without the worry of being overwhelmed. We should also be seeing better FSB on the dual cores than the quads and mobos will be less stressed pushing it. And to top it all off, quad core still isn't being utilized effectively by anything but a tiny handful of apps. I'll take 5.2GHz, 5.3GHz (or even better) phase stable dual core over a 4.5GHz to 4.8GHz phase stable quad.

[metro.cl]

4.4GHz dual SP32m at decent volts is really nice, i hope FSB Wall isnt bad i'll have a E8400 to test soon.

[RPGWiZaRD]

4.4GHz dual SP32m at decent volts is really nice, i hope FSB Wall isnt bad i'll have a E8400 to test soon.

Great, I'm sure a lot of people are interested in this. 9x multi which is the sweetspot at least for price/overclockability. I can't wait to see results.

EDIT: dannish site http://www.compumail.dk/vare-oversigt.php?varenummer=11024&type=0 has already E8500 listed for 1839 Dannish crowns (1471 excl. VAT) which should be around 250 EUR (~200 EUR excl VAT) which should correspond to ~$280 USD price, so not too bad. Any other sites listing it already?

[Speederlander]

When is 8500 due to be available?

[Metroid]

We can not let our hope goes by. That is an ES chip anyway.

Metroid.

[Speederlander]

We can not let our hope goes by. That is an ES chip anyway.

Metroid.

That's why I say:

If consumer chips do this...
;)

[xlink]

so conroe clocked like northwood and penryn clocks like prescott...

[mursaat]

:shocked: :eek2:

I might choose an E8400 after all if Wolfdale clocks this nicely. 4.3~4.5GHz stable would be nice and starts sounding like a reality now (not only a speculation). :DI still think (seems like the quad fever hit everybody) that nowadays you'll have better performance with 2x 4.5ghz than with 4x 4ghz. 98% of the appz are not optimized for 2+ cores.

Ok Q9XXX series look great, but are we really benefiting for having four cores instead of a faster two cores? If you encode, 3dk06, 3D design, or play Crysis a lot (only game to date to really (announced) use four cores), you should get a quad, but for everything else... you'll be faster with a dual.

[xlink]

I still think (seems like the quad fever hit everybody) that nowadays you'll have better performance with 2x 4.5ghz than with 4x 4ghz. 98% of the appz are not optimized for 2+ cores.

Ok Q9XXX series look great, but are we really benefiting for having four cores instead of a faster two cores? If you encode, 3dk06, 3D design, or play Crysis a lot (only game to date to really (announced) use four cores), you should get a quad, but for everything else... you'll be faster with a dual.

with preliminary results for crysis showing around a 1% performance gain for quad to dual, I think I'll take a dual and clock it 2% faster for more performance for less $$$

[Philip_J_Fry]

I still think (seems like the quad fever hit everybody) that nowadays you'll have better performance with 2x 4.5ghz than with 4x 4ghz. 98% of the appz are not optimized for 2+ cores.

Ok Q9XXX series look great, but are we really benefiting for having four cores instead of a faster two cores? If you encode, 3dk06, 3D design, or play Crysis a lot (only game to date to really (announced) use four cores), you should get a quad, but for everything else... you'll be faster with a dual.

heres a typical Crysis CPU usage, @ last level fighting all that planes
67414
with Q6600 @ 3.6, 8800GT, @ XP very high 1280x1024

its always like this:
u have 1 core thats @ 90~95% most of the time ,and u have 2nd core @ 60% most of the time, and 3rd, and 4th never exceed say .. 15% ... i never get above 50% overall CPU usage, so yeah its optimized for quad (since the 3rd and 4th do get work ...), but dual can can handle it just fine, and ur better off with a high clock dual core than a quad core ( 200MHz more , then the dual core will definitely be faster)

i would definitely take E8500 @ 4.7GHz on water than Q9450 @ 4GHZ (which needs a board that can handle quad @ 500fsb ...) for Crysis

and that 9550 is just too pricey for that mere 0.5 multi ....

[Loque]

most games are gpu limited, think only the next nvidia high end cards would ask more juice from current top cpus..

[mAJORD]

Wow, certainly no doubt about 45nm being a winner..



Just to be picky shintai, (since you are extremely picky)


Not sure if its been posted before.

4.7Ghz Wolfdale stable on air


He's shown:

4.0Ghz stable (orthos 1hr stable)

4.4Ghz dual 32M stable

4.7Ghz is 1M (not stable)

On good water though mid 4's seem a possibility, wonder how many would opt for this over a quad next year, and also how retail chips clock.

[metro.cl]

Retail Conroe did as good as ES conroe or at least pretty close.

[Metroid]

Retail Conroe did as good as ES conroe or at least pretty close.

Sorry about this but this is wrong, before the Conroe launch time Q2 2006 ES chips were around 3.8 to 4.5, everyone was expecting that retail chips would get 4.0 on air, turned out to be around 2.7 to 3.0 batch week 24, after that only batch 27 to 30 were good batches and some of the people could get 3.3 to 3.6, now we can get 4.0 dual cores.

I have to see first how retail Wolfdale will be before take my hopes up.

Metroid.

[xlink]

Sorry about this but this is wrong, before the Conroe launch time Q2 2006 ES chips were around 3.8 to 4.5, everyone was expecting that retail chips would get 4.0 on air, turned out to be around 2.7 to 3.0 batch week 24, after that only batch 27 to 30 were good batches and some of the people could get 3.3 to 3.6, now we can get 4.0 dual cores.

I have to see first how retail Wolfdale will be before take my hopes up.

Metroid.

weird I have a weak 24 and it does around 3.4GHz or so on stock volts.

[metro.cl]

Sorry about this but this is wrong, before the Conroe launch time Q2 2006 ES chips were around 3.8 to 4.5, everyone was expecting that retail chips would get 4.0 on air, turned out to be around 2.7 to 3.0 batch week 24, after that only batch 27 to 30 were good batches and some of the people could get 3.3 to 3.6, now we can get 4.0 dual cores.

I have to see first how retail Wolfdale will be before take my hopes up.

Metroid.

I've tested several chips and on average both are pretty close.

I never saw 4.5GHz on air stable for C2D (ES B2), only after G0 stepping 4GHz was close to average.

[Eddie3dfx]

CPU:INTEL Core 2 Duo E8500
MB: ASUS P5K3-DELUXE
DRAM:CORSAIR TWIN3X2048-1800C7DF <---------------@LOOK@
VGA:ELSA 8800GT 512MB
HD:Seagate 7200.10 320G
POWER:Corsair HX520W Modular Power Supply
Cooler:Thermaltake V1

It's not really a great benchmark if it's using ddr3, since really it's hard to compare our systems with a new E8500 since 99% of us are using ddr2.
How do we know how much of the scores are because of the ddr3 and how much of it has to do with the new cpus...

[JumpingJack]

Sorry about this but this is wrong, before the Conroe launch time Q2 2006 ES chips were around 3.8 to 4.5, everyone was expecting that retail chips would get 4.0 on air, turned out to be around 2.7 to 3.0 batch week 24, after that only batch 27 to 30 were good batches and some of the people could get 3.3 to 3.6, now we can get 4.0 dual cores.

I have to see first how retail Wolfdale will be before take my hopes up.

Metroid.

Could you link up where this was the case, I recall 3.5-3.7 GHz on air from V. Wang, but no claims of much above that, nor any demonstrations above that on air. Also, I was getting 3.6 out the C2D from week 1. I think you are not remembering your facts correctly.

I did see 4.5 up to 5.0 on LN2, with sub 10 second superpi 1M....

[duploxxx]

yes i think it has been posted in the intel section. ;) (not everything is in the news section. :) )

don't worry it's shintai's lovely news...

nice score @ 1,67Vcore on air......and lets wait for the global retail versions, not to mention the capabilities of Windwithme.

[realsmasher]

Could you link up where this was the case, I recall 3.5-3.7 GHz on air from V. Wang, but no claims of much above that, nor any demonstrations above that on air. Also, I was getting 3.6 out the C2D from week 1. I think you are not remembering your facts correctly.


He is just right.

There were MANY threads about ES 6600 with 3,8 or even 4ghz on AIR.

Now look at the (first) retail 6600 and what they get on air. You must have gotten a real good one, as only a few did 3,6 with air.

My won't get much higher then 3200 at all.

So i don't exspect retail wolfdale to do much more then 4ghz on air.

[JumpingJack]

He is just right.

There were MANY threads about ES 6600 with 3,8 or even 4ghz on AIR.

Now look at the (first) retail 6600 and what they get on air. You must have gotten a real good one, as only a few did 3,6 with air.

My won't get much higher then 3200 at all.

So i don't exspect retail wolfdale to do much more then 4ghz on air.

I don't recall seeing those, I recall seeing one thread with one claim of 4 G on air, but anything above 3.6ish range was on water or LN2.

No matter, the OC is still good on the first retail chips.

You can track the history of all these OC's here, http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/183765-28-collection-conroe-data-core-core-extreme

In terms of OCing, of the sites that reviewed C2D, most were getting betwen 3.5-3.6 Ghz on air cooling, which is what I recall and tracked through these same forums. I am not talking about fanboyism boasting, but actual data and results. What was posted with screenshots, and CPUIDs in terms of OC matched with what came with retail.

[Jimmer411]

This has to be a cherry picked cpu.


If its not then wow...

[JumpingJack]

This has to be a cherry picked cpu.


If its not then wow...

Maybe not... but when you look at the QX9600 getting to 4.0 G and higher from several review sites, then a dual core getting to 4.7 G is not so much of a stretch.

Now, lets look at this in more detail ... Intel has published several high-K/MG papers, one in particular is http://www.intel.com/technology/silicon/ieee/IWGI2003.pdf

Two aspects of the paper are driven home in figure 11, first is the drive current of 1.5 mA/micron the second is this is at 45 na/micron subthreshold. Given that Intel's 65 nm had drive currents of 1.2 mA/micron at 100 na/micron, not only should the processor run cooler but it should clock higher (assuming a comensurate increase in PMOS) by roughly a factor of 1.5/1.2 (this is discounting that it can go slightly higher in drive current because the subthreshold is so low). Now, much argument is made above about how high the 65 nm Conroe could go so let's just take 3.5 GHz on air for the dual core (this is not abnormal, many sites and people are doing this), 1.5/1.2 * 3.5 = 4.375 Ghz so within the ball park, this is about what you can expect.... the high-K/MG is just giving awesome drive current, which translates into extraordinary clocking (Fmax).

Granted, this is an oversimplified to an extent.. the PMOS drive currents in this paper are not as good, but of course this is 4 years old.... if Intel indeed improved PMOS as much as they improved NMOS (and judging from the quad data, they have), then 4.7 GHz is not unlikely.
Jack

[AAbenson]

so we can generally accept the idea that the Wolfdales will be going for 4.5ghz on air:up: with less electricity consumption than a 3.5ght Conroe:D

[Chri$ch]

4.5Ghz on air (Thermalright Ultra120 eXtreme) 1hour orthos :eek:

http://www.abload.de/thumb/1sok23.jpg (http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=1sok23.jpg)

http://forum.coolaler.com/showthread.php?t=166541

[SturmoV]

He is just right.

There were MANY threads about ES 6600 with 3,8 or even 4ghz on AIR.

Now look at the (first) retail 6600 and what they get on air. You must have gotten a real good one, as only a few did 3,6 with air.

My won't get much higher then 3200 at all.

So i don't exspect retail wolfdale to do much more then 4ghz on air.


Mine is one of the first retail chips. It's at 3300 right now (CoreTemp shows 44 C idle and ~58 C running Orthos with Large, in-place FFT's on both cores) and it could go higher with a better (air)cooler and some additional voltage.

[RPGWiZaRD]

4.5Ghz on air (Thermalright Ultra120 eXtreme) 1hour orthos :eek:

http://www.abload.de/thumb/1sok23.jpg (http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=1sok23.jpg)

http://forum.coolaler.com/showthread.php?t=166541

That's what I want to see. :D

I'm a betatester for PCSX2 PS2 emulator which hasn't got quad core support (but dual core support) and probably won't ever get either, the higher clock the better for me. And how many Q9450 do you expect to do 4GHz? I don't think many mobos will be 500 FSB stable with quad, 470~480 FSB might be more what to expect as we all know quads stops at an lower FSB than dual in average.

[Metroid]

weird I have a weak 24 and it does around 3.4GHz or so on stock volts.

So that is real? Have you played on the lottery in the same day? I would be very happy to see your results and congratulate you for something incredible.

We can see in this thread below not even 1 CPU of initial batches is in there. The people were intelligent enough, the most of them changed or sold its CPU for a better batch. I recall Intel wanted to sell bad batches first. Well my CPU does 3.4 with 1.60 Vcore stable. It is just too much voltage for air cooling. I had to drop it to 3.0 1.4 stable.

Conroe Database (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=127379&highlight=conroe+database)

Desperate guy 1 (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=148765&highlight=conroe+stable+air)

1st Post. (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1517211&postcount=7)

2nd post (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1470833&postcount=59)

3th post (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1646940&postcount=63)

I can not remember who was the insane guy who told Conroe would do just 4.5 on air fine.

Metroid.

[RPGWiZaRD]

But what tells Penryn launch samples have to do as bad as the early E6600? I'd say there's even above 50% chance of that not being the case:

1) Conroe was the first desktop C2D CPU, Penryn is only a "tweaked" C2D CPU so the architecture is very familiar now.

2) Then there's the manufacturing process that plays a great role. It could be both troublesome and give a great benefit, depending how smooth the dieshrink process went. Judging by all the ES samples I've seen and the nice words from Intel about Penryn 45nm progress it seems the dieshrink process have went very well. That means Intel could overall and even from start be shipping more "nice" samples.

3) E6850 G0 clocks quite often even up to 4GHz stable on air. I know of a person that's running even 4.2GHz stable 24/7 on air and even posted a 4.5GHz shot and that's also a 3GHz (9x333) part which E8400 is. From the 45nm process I expect a better overclock than 65nm so 4.3~4.5GHz to me doesn't seem like an overestimation by any means.

[Metroid]

But what tells Penryn launch samples have to do as bad as the early E6600? I'd say there's even above 50% chance of that not being the case:

1) Conroe was the first desktop C2D CPU, Penryn is only a "tweaked" C2D CPU so the architecture is very familiar now.

2) Then there's the manufacturing process that plays a great role. It could be both troublesome and give a great benefit, depending how the dieshrink process went. Judging by all the ES samples I've seen and the nice words from Intel about Penryn 45nm progress it seems the dieshrink process have went very well.

I'm just pointing out that we can for sure achieve a higher overclock due to 45nm process but not that high as showed here 4.7 on air is just unrealistic with retail chips. I want this to be real too but can not get my hopes up for some reason.

Metroid.

[RPGWiZaRD]

I'm just pointing out that we can for sure achieve a higher overclock due to 45nm process but not that high as showed here 4.7 on air is just unrealistic with retail chips. I want this to be real too but can not get my hopes up for some reason.

Metroid.

I'm not believing in that 4.7GHz will be any common clock to reach except some very good batch and very high and unsafe 24/7 volts but 4.3~4.5GHz I still think is very plausible for retail chips and I wouldn't complain having reached such clock on Wolfdale which is a bit faster clock for clock than Conroe too. :up: I feel sorry for AMD though when Penryn clocks this nicely, it's not really what AMD needs when they have clock scaling issues themselves...

Most enthusiasts sure will find Penryn more exciting due to the overclockability.

[Metroid]

I'm not believing in that 4.7GHz will be any common clock to reach except some very good batch and very high and unsafe 24/7 volts but 4.3~4.5GHz I still think is very plausible for retail chips and I wouldn't complain having reach such clock on Wolfdale which is a bit faster clock for clock than Conroe too. :up:

If we reach that speed will be marvelous for our PCSX2 gaming testing :D

I'm looking forward to the Wolfdale coming out, Wolfdale + higher clocks = PCSX2 0.94 AA16X. :up:

Metroid.

[RPGWiZaRD]

If we reach that speed will be marvelous for our PCSX2 gaming testing :D

LOL, yea I will definitely do a Wolfdale vs Conroe clock for clock comparision in PCSX2 when I switch over to Penryn. If PCSX2 isn't a good CPU benchmark then I don't know what is. I'm guessing 10~15&#37; clock for clock performance gain over Conroe in this app, we'll see what it turns out to be later when I run exactly same settings, only swap CPUs and do an accurate comparision at 8x333, 6x499 and 8x469 settings for example. :) Other softwares I will do a comparision with will be Aquamark, 3DMark06 & 05, a couple of built in PC game benchmarks from various games in low res when possible, superpi etc.

[Metroid]

LOL, yea I will definitely do a Wolfdale vs Conroe clock for clock comparision in PCSX2 when I switch over to Penryn. If PCSX2 isn't a good CPU benchmark then I don't know what is. I'm guessing 10~15&#37; clock for clock performance gain over Conroe in this app, we'll see what it turns out to be later when I run exactly same settings, only swap CPUs and do an accurate comparision at 8x333, 6x499 and 8x469 settings for example. :) Other softwares I will do a comparision with will be Aquamark, 3DMark06 & 05, a couple of built in PC game benchmarks from various games in low res when possible, superpi etc.


Since PCSX2 is a CPU dependent at 100% load at no less, makes even tempting to try it out to see the performance gaining as you said compare it clock by clock to Conroe. I will wait till March fact I'm going for holidays and will stay away for 3 months by that time will be close enough to a good priced retail Wolfdale CPU. I still have some steps to walk through.

Metroid.

[BeardyMan]

Very impressive :)

[frankR]

i just did a little quick math in my head.
at this frequency, i believe the dual core wolfdales are actually faster than the 4 core phenoms at stock. :shocked:

Yeah. That was my reaction as well.

Very impressive result !!

[trans am]

How long until we can all run with the wolf?

[Hornet331]

january 08

[trans am]

geez! talk about a long wait. :(

[railer]

ok the good thing is that 8500 should be 9.5 multy, we just need bios that supports it. This should allow more flex when overclocking.

Second, someone has to find a pin mod so we can get 800FSB:D
There is pin mod to go 1333 so i think it should be possible.

[Omastar]

so conroe clocked like northwood and penryn clocks like prescott...

Actually, I'd say Penryn is more akin to Cedar Mill or Presler in terms of clocking. Plenty of P4 631s did 4GHz with no problem with high end air cooling. Prescotts had the ridiculous 34 stage pipeline or whatever, but it became a nuclear reactor before Intel could even bin a 4GHz model.

[Supertim0r]

4.5Ghz on air (Thermalright Ultra120 eXtreme) 1hour orthos :eek:

http://www.abload.de/thumb/1sok23.jpg (http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=1sok23.jpg)

http://forum.coolaler.com/showthread.php?t=166541

it's MR AndreYang :)

[Start]

I'll just say what is said everytime when comparing ES to Retail. The people who get the ES chips usually know what they are doing and generally know how to overclock better than a regular person. Chip has a big factor in overclocking, but so does skill.

[xlink]

Actually, I'd say Penryn is more akin to Cedar Mill or Presler in terms of clocking. Plenty of P4 631s did 4GHz with no problem with high end air cooling. Prescotts had the ridiculous 34 stage pipeline or whatever, but it became a nuclear reactor before Intel could even bin a 4GHz model.

wasn't cedar mil doing 7-8Ghz under ln2? I honestly don't think penryn will reach that. 6-7Ghz most likely(7 is pushing it, unless there's something I don't know and that's a definite possibility), but not 7-8.



So that is real? Have you played on the lottery in the same day? I would be very happy to see your results and congratulate you for something

just checked. it's week 26. ehh so i was off 2 weeks. In the scheme of things, OEMs and peopel who jumped on the bandwagon got week 30 and under and the rest of us got over. Try and find a week 30 outside of ebay, I bet it's hard now.

[RPGWiZaRD]

wasn't cedar mil doing 7-8Ghz under ln2? I honestly don't think penryn will reach that. 6-7Ghz most likely(7 is pushing it, unless there's something I don't know and that's a definite possibility), but not 7-8.

He was probably referring to aircooling results, then it's a valid comparision IMO.