View Full Version : cales supercritical cascade
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alright hi guys, this is my first post on xs. firstly hi how are you all?
ive been watching and learning about what you guys do for the past few months and its time for me to get knee deep in it :)
i have hit a wall with my watercooling setup and she doesnt wanna play the way i wanna play ( which is 4.5ghz + :yepp: )
ive been building a few ghetto proof of concept type systems with fridge compressors and whatnot and im satisfyed with my grasp on the concept so i have decided to build my monster r290 and co2 benching cascade.
i would appreciate any input from members during my progress as obviously there are alot of small tips and tricks you can only get with experience.
my aim is to cool my 8800 ultra and q6600 go to close to if not -100c.
so yes this will be a dual evap setup.
i have my evaps being machined as we speak and soon as they are ready i can fully assemble the sys,
parts to date are
kirby ae18mg1 3/4 hp compressor
caj99512t lunite hermitque 1hp compressor
600 x 450 x 450 3 row condensor
2.5 litre receiver
3 ton shell type hx
home made de superheater condensors
a suction accumulator which im hoping to adapt to an oil separator
150 w 1700l per minute condensor fan assembly
selection of sight glasses and filter driers and electrical components
so im pretty sure im off to a good start component wise, i did not wanna use any of the rotary compressors i have as i really dont like the noise but i may use them for future projects i have 2 1hp matsushiutas and a 1.7hp westinghouse.
ill be working from the drawings in my photo array
but any suggestions from u guys before i start would be greatlyu apreciated
thanks
:up:
gosmeyer
11-15-2007, 04:42 AM
Welcome, Your in the right place.
Looks like Dave's cascade dwg
not sure who dave is ?
but i have been taking what i consider to be good ideas from builds i have seen and using them to design mine,
imitation is the most sincere form of flattery after all
Xeon th MG Pony
11-15-2007, 05:00 AM
immitation with out good strong understanding is dangerous ;) how ever!
For example, supercritical has a definate meaning, is your cascade going to use a super critical cycle? if so how so?
If not then your name for it is dierly inaccurate.
i only saw the word used yesterday, obviously in the wrong context :( i just had a look and yeah dont think its as appropriate anymore lol
its an r290 c02 cascade none the less :)
jinu117
11-15-2007, 05:42 AM
Welcome to the forum Cale :)
Actually your cascade will be super critical in a sense if you make it since you don't want to freeze up CO2 (very short phase of liquid to solid)....
Lot of people have had fun with it but no one actually ever made it to be usable thing I believe as it is way too easy to block evaporator outlet with frozen CO2... (it's not nice when people mention about thunk thunk in suction line :P)
Maybe CPEV on 2nd stage if it can handle temp would do the trick... :)
that was my exact plaN jinu :) the cpev im tryin to source as we speak. im in australia and the two main shops i use dont stock them :)
DetroitAC
11-15-2007, 06:07 AM
To be called supercritical at any point in the cycle, the pressure would need to be above the critical pressure of CO2. Critical pressure is 73.8 bara or 1070 psia. I don't think you want to do that.
jinu117
11-15-2007, 06:18 AM
Ahaha... Detroit to rescue :) I wasn't thinking in that term at all but in literal word of "critiical"... :P I should have thought about it for sure. Thanks for the correction :)
as wikiepedia just taught me :)
so as i need not very applicable anymore,
but ill be using the cpev on the second stage for the purposes of tuning
as it will be dual evap and ill be purchasing new hardware once the 45nm chips are out and with potentially differnt heat loads i just wanna have the flexablility to tune on the fly
godmod
11-15-2007, 07:56 AM
You can tune the cascade in a small range, but if you want to adapt it from low to high loads you will have to add refrigerant anyways.
hehe define low :)
i dont think the loads will ever be low
but they will change depending on the card or chip im gunna bench
and i think a cpev will be a useful enough to warrant putting it in there
godmod
11-15-2007, 10:53 AM
"low - in comarison to..."
if your cpu dissipates 180W OCed (dual core?) and you change it to a quad, that dissipates 250W, that would be a higher load. i did not mean one or two or 10W...
I just mean a difference that really matters, where you just need more mass flow!
Xeon th MG Pony
11-15-2007, 01:30 PM
Glad you learnt the real meaning! Info on forums is great but not all ways right or even near proper, make sure to tripple check multiple sources befor taking some thing at face value!
ive currently got q6600 go step and 8800ultra
but i have a feeling thats about as high as the heatload will probably get, witch the greater efficientcy 45nm chips fingers crossed and maybe they are gunna be noticably more efficient with slightly more managable heat loads. from my understanding anyway. and i was gunna pick up an e6850 for some benches as it seems to have much longer legs on it than the quad, and super pi times are what i want :)
so im just trying to make a versitile system for myself and should i sell it anyone who purchases
and trying to decipher forums is a real pain in the backside i but over the past few months u learn to take everything at face, unitill you can confirm.
on here or refirdgeration engineer dot com
pretty much the only places i use for answers to my questions
Xeon th MG Pony
11-15-2007, 05:27 PM
I'm all so a member there. You got it back wards take NOTHING at face value till it is confirmed by a couple of sources, thats the safe way.
jinu117
11-15-2007, 05:48 PM
I'm all so a member there. You got it back wards take NOTHING at face value till it is confirmed by a couple of sources, thats the safe way.
With some recent postings, I do agree unfortunately.
Keep in mind, the information in here is quite vast and informative, not all are 100% true. Good refrigeration book will give you some good idea on what to decide true and what not. (do they make paper bound for Modern Refrigeration and Air conditioning?) While books might cover too baisc of information, it will actually give you very wide scope about subject which can be helpful including, how to use certain tools and what kind of tools exist, basics on wiring, etc, etc.
Honestly, the best source would be yourself experimenting and gathering your own data.
amen to that, i actually own and electronics store and my old man is a hvac engineer, so im quite confident in the basics at the moment. and the few ghetto ss's i played with worked a treat so time to get into the big boys stuff :)
that being said nothing is a sure thing so any guidence during the build will be greatly appreciated
Xeon th MG Pony
11-16-2007, 05:16 AM
- Dont exceed industry standerd compression ratios (10;1 for recipicating 5:1 for rotory)
- Never run a system in a vacuum, selecting the proper refrigerant is critical
- Never allow discharge temps to exceed 210F
- All ways size the condenser 35% larger then total heat taken in from evap frankly I'd use 40%+ to get better efficincies.
- Use good piping practices that minimize strain and vibration
Use your common sense, take it slow and easy, do the math and the research and you're gurenteed a system that will last near forever and use verry little power!
Dualist
11-16-2007, 12:57 PM
Looks like Dave's cascade dwg
Yes Eric it is :D
imitation is the most sincere form of flattery after all
Thank you ;)
The cascade in that drawing used R404a in the first stage and R290/1150 in the second. What gases is your old man able to aquire for you.?
unfortunatly not alot, hence the reason i have chosen bbq gas and baloon inflation gas ;)
but he work in a federal court building here in adelaide australia and they use cooling towers and chillers
12kw 8kw and 4kw :)
not alot i can scam from him except knowledge,
but im pretty crafty so once i find a source in the gas industy i would love to get my hands on some r1150, im undecided on my preferred 1st stage gas tho
probably r410a, or if the gods are pleased with me r13 :)
as you can see my condesor is a monster as is the fan that suits it so i know thats not gunna be an issue,
unfortunatly not alot, hence the reason i have chosen bbq gas and baloon inflation gas ;)
but he work in a federal court building here in adelaide australia and they use cooling towers and chillers
12kw 8kw and 4kw :)
not alot i can scam from him except knowledge,
but im pretty crafty so once i find a source in the gas industy i would love to get my hands on some r1150, im undecided on my preferred 1st stage gas tho
probably r410a, or if the gods are pleased with me r13 :)
as you can see my condesor is a monster as is the fan that suits it so i know thats not gunna be an issue,
even with a big condenser R410a will run a high head pressure.
Might be best to stick with r507.
Might have to send me over some of those condensers and receivers :yepp:
slightly off topic,
picked up crisis yesterday
running 163.75
im running q6600 G0 steap at 475x8 3.8ghz 1.62v
asus 8800ultra at 700mhz/1250mhz
and 2 gb of cruicial pc8500 tracer at 4-4-4-4-4-30-3-3-8 1207mhz at 2.4v
and the grand total of fps is ............. 17. on full settings 1680 *1050 2xaa
crytek have a twisted sense of humour indeed :)
so im pretty much lost for words,
i pull 15800 in 3d mark 06 but i cant crank this ridiculous game.
im taking it as a challenge
(dusts off other pci-e slot)
say the word and ill pop em in the post, i have got so many layin around
http://img77.imageshack.us/my.php?image=81500859pn4.jpg
http://img77.imageshack.us/my.php?image=98242458hc8.jpg
http://img516.imageshack.us/my.php?image=66384893zi6.jpg
http://img128.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pb270021ih5.jpg
fingers crossed i pick up my evaps today,
itching to get started
TopherTony
11-20-2007, 11:44 PM
beautiful phase pr0n!
jinu117
11-21-2007, 12:13 AM
Uhoh... opened filter drier -_-;
thats how i got her :(
only $10 to replace but i wanna use it on the inital charge to collect any other :banana::banana::banana::banana: floatin around in there,
is that ok .?
i tell ya what phase pron is freaken heavy :)