View Full Version : brazing?
ginnz
11-09-2007, 05:02 AM
simple question....
i see the evap head in a S.S Phase system needs to be brazed, as solder won't be able to withstand the pressure's in a phase system, my question is do ALL the joints, or connections need to be brazed in a phase build, or can some of them be soldered?
which ones could be soldered, if any, and which ones need to be brazed?
TIA ;-)
PhilippF
11-09-2007, 05:13 AM
Soft soldering in a phase-change unit is an ABSOLUTELY-NO-DO-THING! Soft solder joints cannot withstand the pressure and have problems with low temps.
There are a few units out there I have seen which had been soft-soldered but this is like a mcgyver-style repaired russian hand grenade.
If you want to build a phase-change system, do it the safe way and hard-solder. With exception of the evap it can be done with a MAPP torch (which isnt very expensive). For the evap, just contact a trusted builder near you who can braze you one.
Regards,
Philipp
well I think everyone here you supply evaps are able to braze them too, ofcourse it will proberbly cost a little more.
n00b 0f l337
11-09-2007, 09:56 AM
And with Mapp it is possible to braze evaps. Just harder and a bit trickier ;)
[XC] gomeler
11-09-2007, 10:17 AM
Twin mapp torches and 3 minutes of warming up the block does the trick. Braze it all, you don't want a joint on your high-side just deciding one day it is tired of being held shut by some solder.
n00b 0f l337
11-09-2007, 10:48 AM
Single does it for me ;)
Maybe I should make a video
[XC] gomeler
11-09-2007, 10:52 AM
Guarantee with two torches I get it done faster though :)
n00b 0f l337
11-09-2007, 11:02 AM
Play the one ups game? ;)
With my casting furnace I could probably avoid brazing all together ;)
[XC] gomeler
11-09-2007, 01:44 PM
With my patented copper growing techniques I can put a small piece of copper in the ground and after 12 weeks I have complete copper evaporators complete with suction and captube ports. Beat that :yepp:
n00b 0f l337
11-09-2007, 02:49 PM
Damn ya win on that one.
I'll take 50 ;)
teyber
11-09-2007, 10:24 PM
Play the one ups game? ;)
With my casting furnace I could probably avoid brazing all together ;)
damn you! take advantage of this stuff my friend
gomeler;2545230']With my patented copper growing techniques I can put a small piece of copper in the ground and after 12 weeks I have complete copper evaporators complete with suction and captube ports. Beat that :yepp:
+1
A oxy/mapp torch costs 10$ more then a mapp torch and the oxygen get pretty hot. I was pretty bored yesterday and small aluminum panel into complete liquid... it was awsome.
-1 for me
BRAZE EVERYTHING WELL!
for brazing evaps if you have a camping stove get the evap real hot first then braze with oxy/mapp
PhilippF
11-10-2007, 01:08 AM
gomeler;2545230']With my patented copper growing techniques I can put a small piece of copper in the ground and after 12 weeks I have complete copper evaporators complete with suction and captube ports. Beat that :yepp:
LOOOOL! Mind if I put that in my sig?
Philipp
ginnz
11-10-2007, 05:34 AM
ok then! brazing all joints it is! thanks for the Noob info guys.... :-)
teyber
11-10-2007, 05:13 PM
Play the one ups game? ;)
With my casting furnace I could probably avoid brazing all together ;)
pics or it isn't true:up:
n00b 0f l337
11-10-2007, 05:33 PM
Was a joke Teyber ;)
But I do braze with just MAPP.
[XC] gomeler
11-10-2007, 07:12 PM
LOOOOL! Mind if I put that in my sig?
Philipp
Go for it, if I post it on the forum it's public domain :D
damn you! take advantage of this stuff my friend
+1
A oxy/mapp torch costs 10$ more then a mapp torch and the oxygen get pretty hot. I was pretty bored yesterday and small aluminum panel into complete liquid... it was awsome.
-1 for me
BRAZE EVERYTHING WELL!
for brazing evaps if you have a camping stove get the evap real hot first then braze with oxy/mapp
dawg I totally agree, I was having a bit of practice with my oxy mapp torch, and when I wasn't paying attention I cut a hole straight through the tube lol!
http://redline-oc.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!D222D0891B3BE9FC!483.entry
it's the bottom pic
teyber
11-10-2007, 07:51 PM
uh-oh! dude i highly recomend a fire extinguisher at your disposal... unless its just not in pic? lol thats pretty legit though XD
I had a bucket of water at my side just in case, the photos are just focuses in on the brazing (as I'm going to do a walkthrough at a different form [this one already has probably way better ones] of how to at least get the general knowledge of what it requires to build a phase, not saying I'm an expert though, that's more like jinu, nol, kayl etc)
teyber
11-10-2007, 08:07 PM
I had a bucket of water at my side just in case, the photos are just focuses in on the brazing (as I'm going to do a walkthrough at a different form [this one already has probably way better ones] of how to at least get the general knowledge of what it requires to build a phase, not saying I'm an expert though, that's more like jinu, nol, kayl etc)
yeah for sure.
One thing to keep in mind is always check to make sure alkali metals are not beeing worked with if your using water. Big explosion to happen lol.
Ill be checking out your walk-through!
you forgot many, most notables are pc-ice, chilly1 (NOT!lol.
jinu117
11-10-2007, 08:15 PM
Ahaha... that's funny. Actually when I first got my torch, that's what i was fooling with... a copper coin... it disappaered...
Everyone will figure out one point or another but the key in brazing is, keep the heat in short, just enough to let filler flow, and get out of it. Never let the flame melt the filler, the heated material should do that. I've got bunch of examples of bad braze pictures stored in here to show examples of what to avoid :) (of course, not mine, I never make mistakes like that... - SURE...)
If anyone remembered I got into phase change building, you wouldn't dare putting one of the name as notable person Teyber...
teyber
11-10-2007, 08:19 PM
Ahaha... that's funny. Actually when I first got my torch, that's what i was fooling with... a copper coin... it disappaered...
Everyone will figure out one point or another but the key in brazing is, keep the heat in short, just enough to let filler flow, and get out of it. Never let the flame melt the filler, the heated material should do that. I've got bunch of examples of bad braze pictures stored in here to show examples of what to avoid :) (of course, not mine, I never make mistakes like that... - SURE...)
If anyone remembered I got into phase change building, you wouldn't dare putting one of the name as notable person Teyber...
lol im searching your threads now!
lol j/k....
Hey jin: wow my and ali(99%me) have completely thread jacked. SO let me re-phrase this question.
Do people recomend the starter of the thread when brazing copper pipes with oxy/mapp to use flux then 15% silver brazing rods or self fluxed brazing rods? what do you guys recomend, not for me:ROTF: , but the starter in terms of flux?
thanks
teyber
11-10-2007, 08:52 PM
Ahaha... that's funny. Actually when I first got my torch, that's what i was fooling with... a copper coin... it disappaered...
Everyone will figure out one point or another but the key in brazing is, keep the heat in short, just enough to let filler flow, and get out of it. Never let the flame melt the filler, the heated material should do that. I've got bunch of examples of bad braze pictures stored in here to show examples of what to avoid :) (of course, not mine, I never make mistakes like that... - SURE...)
If anyone remembered I got into phase change building, you wouldn't dare putting one of the name as notable person Teyber...
lol what are you talking about? i skimmed through your las 2 pages of threads (yeah im that bored...) and 1 thread you have a question then its like BOOM! pro evaps, mad respect from everybody.... Unless im missing something you entered the game running!
check pm's:up:
jinu117
11-11-2007, 04:41 AM
Running like pro... Actually, I probably studied more than necessary (never!) for first build. Read everything I had hands on got quick advices from older builders who were around since... well practically beginning of phase (yes that includes baker whose evap was copied by you know who in moments notice), Practiced brazing on cut pieces of copper tubing (about 20ft x 3 inches of 1/4, 10ft 3 inches of 3/8 each... you guys do the math), actually went in an saw Chilly1 brazing (back than it was really fun to watch... he is quite good with torch), came back home and once things were measured twice than got on it. Played with first unit till I was happy (probably about 10 different cap tubing length going down by inch at a time, load testing religiously on CPU running some rediculous voltage.
No I didn't run at start. I took a lot of steps to even get to my first walk. Back than I think people were friendlier and gave me a good helps over forum to discuss what would be better, etc. After that, my first customer came in (actually local guy who wanted to get SS unit and saw mine and said... I will ask him... who encouraged me into getting into this in full blast basically).
Rest is history I suppose :)
Even for my first cascade, I think I waited till I built dozen SS so I really understood how things works well enough to point where I would build my first cascade and it was a good success :)
If some of you have noticed on the mini cascade, there is reason why I am using gases that are in there now :) It's prelude to few more experiments I have in hand I am taking baby steps again to make it right from start.
that's cool. While I know I won't be any where near as good of a builder as you are Jin for at least a couple of years of practice (besides the fact that I'm still a lower-class man in highschool), I too hope to be able to understand how well various things go together and what not so that way perhaps I can turn it from a hobby into building some units for my friends