Controller sales

[SexyMF]

Since this is not a for-sale or product support forum, the threads for commercially available controllers should not be allowed in this forum.

Why should certain people have free reign to advertise and sell things here?

[mike8913]

No one is actually posting items for sale here, they're just making various models known to the forum viewers. For me, knowing which controllers are available in the same forum that I do all my phase research is very important. So basically, I think your making a fuss out of something that is helpful.

[n00b 0f l337]

I think its sorta relevant. I have no problems with them posting and people showing problems and getting things solved.

[[XC] gomeler]

I'd have to say it's immensely helpful knowing which controllers are available as it helps us realize what is and isn't available. Wish that sub-forum for builders/products was still available besides the general for-sale/services sub-forum.

[killermiller]

I like to what people create whether they intend to sell it or not. When I am in the market for a controller I will know where to look besides online merchants.

[Fujimitsu]

I think it's totally relevant, I don't care if people post information about their controllers as long as they don't use this board as free advertisement.

I would much have the support and information kept in one place. I think that having all the support here is MUCH better than each person who makes a product creating a website and a support forum. I'd much rather be able to ask all my questions in one place than go to a forum on another site that is hardly ever checked. It's convenient for everyone involved as long as no one abuses the system.

[BlueAqua]

I come to this forum to find support mostly and to help others that need support as I think most do. I think everyone should be able to post their controllers, for retail or not, explain features/differences and provide some technical support with them.

[SexyMF]

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=155276

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=155557

These two stickys cover it all.

Why are controllers any different?


No one is actually posting items for sale here, they're just making various models known to the forum viewers.

So when does it become for-sale..... when you ask and they say PM me?. Or only when they post a price. Come talk in private and I'll give you my special price?
Come on - be serious. If I say I have a controller version X with X and Y features, you know damn well it is an advert and it is to be sold.


Wish that sub-forum for builders/products was still available...

These controllers belong in here http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=265

That is what the subforum is for


I think it's totally relevant, I don't care if people post information about their controllers as long as they don't use this board as free advertisement.

People ARE making money, and paying NOTHING for the free advertising they get here.




If builders are not allowed because they are selling things, then ALL things sold should be shifted to the appropriate forum.
This forum is for free things, including knowledge. I wouldn't be allowed to suggest that I run a refrigeration training course which offers excellent new and improved features - just PM me for the details.

Get it?

You will still be able to see what controllers are available to purchase. JUST NOT IN THIS FORUM

[killermiller]

The builder/customer relations was created because this forum was being filled with complaints about certain builders. Not because people didn't want to see what people create.

Basically, the way I take it, is no one should post anything in the forum since it has "potential" to be sold. I am not sure why you are singling out controllers since there are evaps and cases in the vapor section as well. Hell, if you see a system built, you can ask and I am sure someone would sell it. For the right price of course.

I don't see why you are so hard up about it.

[PhilippF]

A lot of nice ideas that now can actually be bought came from this forum. For example the Evap designs and of course all the controllers. I think it is nice to have a thread discussing any of them, make suggestions, show problems, etc. Of course, no actual sales should be done in this forum, but being able to discuss products and see into their development is a nice thing I think.

The "real" commercial products, eg. Vapochill, are developed, and then sold "as is". Thats what the difference is. No insight into the development there.

And if one developes a nice controller and then sells it, what is wrong with that? With a thread showing the development etc. you at least know more exactly what you are buying.

Just my 2 cents,

Philipp

[Fujimitsu]

If builders are not allowed because they are selling things, then ALL things sold should be shifted to the appropriate forum.
This forum is for free things, including knowledge. I wouldn't be allowed to suggest that I run a refrigeration training course which offers excellent new and improved features - just PM me for the details.

Get it?

You will still be able to see what controllers are available to purchase. JUST NOT IN THIS FORUM

I love how you ask a question with a survey and then just blast everyone who answers differently than you. You don't have to be so mean, your viewpoint isn't the only right one, it isn't even the most popular one according to YOUR poll.

The majority of the forum apparently APPROVES of this practice, if you wanted honest opinions then be happy with what you get.

The people who post their controllers and blocks here DO get a little bit of advertisement for it, but most of the time the threads become a long list of questions and suggestions. The threads serve both the buyer and the seller, so both ends of the community benefit. No one should post a thread trying to peddle something here, but if someone develops a new product it SHOULD be here. These forums serve as a communal drawing board, allowing developers and consumers to come together for Q&A, this type of practice works much better than PMs because the questions and answers are viewable by everyone.

If someone develops a new product, or has something to discuss why should we exclude them? People post evap designs here all the time, some of which are for sale and some of which aren't. Either way allowing everyone to see them and comment on/question their design benefits BOTH the creator and the consumer. People post here to showoff and explain their work, I don't often see shameless self-promotion.

[Xeon th MG Pony]

if its just Q&A then I see no issue but flat out selling then no

[Postal Dude]

As per posts above, I think being made aware of whats on therket in here is absolutley fine. nothing is actually sold here. its promotion of products with invites for feedback on features wanted and the like.

[mike8913]

I have to reiterate what's been said. People who post their creation usually do it for customer feedback and to make improvements. No one is saying this cost X amount of dollars or what not. If there were a better system to make transactions other than PM's then we would use it; but there isn't.

And like some one said above; you made a poll and asked for opinions, don't go bashing people with opposing views. After all, this isn't governmental foreign policy we're talking about; it's an internet forum.

[SexyMF]

If you think you are being ridden by my responses then you will crushed by life.

I put a third option in the poll. That is fair. You can call me a spoil-sport. If I was so opposed to gauging opinion I would have only posted a yes option.

As with all polls it only reflects the views of those who bother to participate. Usually those with strong views.

It has served to be more a guage on intellect of some.

Why not have the threads in the builders section - the price of the block/controller/system in the first post. Which can be modified to suit as component values change etc

This would allow far easier access for everybody to know what controllers/blocks/systems are available and at what price.
I have seen many requests for prices and nobody is forthcoming. I am personally insulted by PM requests for prices. How do you know that you are being offered the same price as the next guy? Come in the back room and we will discuss things....

As it stands, who sells things, and what things is obscured in long and often buried threads.

I suggest that the forums would be better served by retaining the phase-change knowledge in this forum and sales of product in the builders forum.


And like some one said above; you made a poll and asked for opinions, don't go bashing people with opposing views. After all, this isn't governmental foreign policy we're talking about; it's an internet forum.


By the same token stop crying.

[jinu117]

NO FLAMING, NO PERSONAL ATTACKS, PLEASE.
Take a deep breath, and let's be back to normal :)

[mike8913]

By the same token stop crying.

Talk about hypocrisy. You say the poll is a gauge on intellect, yet you lean in favor of your opinion: so you're insinuating that some one who negates you is some how of a lower intellect.

No one is crying here but you my friend. Everything was just fine in this forum, but for some reason you are insisting for change in a section where everything is laid out clearly for R&D purposes. If you can't take the results and response to this poll seriously, then why start it in the first place?

Sorry Jinu, but that required a response.

[Fujimitsu]

There was no reason to bring anger and personal attacks into this, you asked for opinions and you got them. Because they weren't in-line with yours you turned it into an argument rather than a poll.

I think this thread has run it's course. Bottom line is most people like the forum the way it is, and don't agree with you. It doesn't mean you lost, it just means that things are gonna stay the way they are. You cant make polls like this and then get all upset when you don't "win" it's not about winning, it's about gathering opinions.

Can someone please talk to him or at least lock this thread? It's a bit ridiculous, you don't even see this kind of pointless irrelevant character bashing in SF... it has no place in this forum, sorry if I contributed to it.

[jinu117]

One more personal attack and this thread will be locked. Doesn't matter from who at this point.
I for one am interested in result of poll (I have something to say but since it already is getting out of control, I will restraint - yeah... not the quitest one around I admit).
So let's keep it clean and civil here.

[Eternalightwith]

I hope you'll say what's on your mind Jinu

[HoriWanderFuLL]

i love to see the controllers and all the builds...Gives me hours of reading and learning.

if they could not do it here where would we get our gear to fullfill our passions ?

i know what your saying is probably correct and there the Rulez.

but we are democratic and enjoy that way of life..they have a right to show us there products we have a right to Pm them for a price ..

Just keeps us in the Garage away from Mrs and kids a bit .lol

[SexyMF]

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/announcement.php?f=120&a=55

[killermiller]

You are still going at this?

[SexyMF]

Yes, killermiller. I take it you have read and understood the forum rules.

Do you not see the benefit in having all the sales of hold-downs, blocks, parts, services, controllers in an easy to read, priced and consolidated sticky at the top of a subforum which is immediately below VPC?
That would still be breaking the forum rules. Or perhaps just bending them.

People ask time and time again who sells what. It is entirely unclear.
Besides more and more people just want to have the elite phase change rig future proofed for the next generation of CPUs.

I have a lot less respect for these tidy units people put together with 100% purchased and pre-made gear. That is just lego. Brazing a few joints and mounting it all inside a pre-made case. But hey - for those who want that, use of the builders section will be godsend.

Hell, I'd even settle for stickies in this forum but with prices available. If you are not prepared to name the price then you don't get the free advertising in prime cyberspace.

[killermiller]

That seems like a different perspective then how you have been putting it. To me this seems to have been a confrontational "clean our streets" attitude. I too think it would be nice to have a single sticky that has the sellers of phase components that don't have interest in an ecommerce business. Jin is updating stickies, why don't you put one together?

I have read the rules. They state no advertising...

4. We do not permit advertising of any kind.
This includes offering items for sale or trade (other than in the Classifieds). Posting to your homepage, an eBay URL, a URL to another site, or announcements of new sites. This applies equally to commercial and private sites/ads. This is also not to happen within user signatures. Links to deals available online are to be posted only in Online Deals & Sales. The only allowed links in a signature will be links directly related to XtremeSystems, Xtreme D2OL, Xtreme Folding@Home and XtremeSystems affiliated website or organization. If you wish to link to your site, you may do so in your usercp which links in every post you make.

I feel most of the component threads begin as "developmental" thread which evolve to completed items, not neccessarily advertisements.

[Vapor]

If you see something literally for sale, report it via the report button or via PM.

However, unless there's ACTUAL dealing/offering going on, don't bother.

We're not going to banish threads that show off a new controller, a new build, or anything like that. We don't do it in any other section of this entire forum and frankly there's no reason to get rid of a thread showing off a new product or the design log/development of a controller/unit. It's not even a reasonable abstraction of the rules.

Afterall, a thread showing off a new product and its design/features is largely what this forum is for. When it does cross the border of being a sale, like: "Now, for a limited time only, $99!!!" or "They will be available tomorrow for purchase" or even "hopefully we can take your orders next week" then report the post and that little snippet will be removed and the poster will be warned.

However, something standalone like "it will be complete next week" will probably slide....it makes no mention of sales, but merely states when said project/design/production-run is complete. If it's in response to "when will we be able to purchase?" then the meaning is clear, however. It's semantics really...hate to say it, but it is. There is a fine line and we can't read too much into anything.

Additionally, we obviously can't stop members from privately contacting each other and dealing exclusively via PM/IM/email, but the aforementioned declarations in posts will be handled.

Again, it's a fine line, when you see something, point it out to the staff via PM/report and we will apply the rules.

[SexyMF]

Unbelievable. I'd just delete the 'code of conduct' . Because you have just proved it farcical.

[Fujimitsu]

Unbelievable. I'd just delete the 'code of conduit' . Because you have just proved it farcical.

Whats a code of conduit?

And you really picked a bad person to pointless attack... youve done nothing but trash people this whole thread I'm surprised you're still around. :shakes:

You've caused more disruption than the crap you're complaining about... please just let it go.

[killermiller]

If you see something literally for sale, report it via the report button or via PM.

However, unless there's ACTUAL dealing/offering going on, don't bother.

We're not going to banish threads that show off a new controller, a new build, or anything like that. We don't do it in any other section of this entire forum and frankly there's no reason to get rid of a thread showing off a new product or the design log/development of a controller/unit. It's not even a reasonable abstraction of the rules.

Afterall, a thread showing off a new product and its design/features is largely what this forum is for. When it does cross the border of being a sale, like: "Now, for a limited time only, $99!!!" or "They will be available tomorrow for purchase" or even "hopefully we can take your orders next week" then report the post and that little snippet will be removed and the poster will be warned.

However, something standalone like "it will be complete next week" will probably slide....it makes no mention of sales, but merely states when said project/design/production-run is complete. If it's in response to "when will we be able to purchase?" then the meaning is clear, however. It's semantics really...hate to say it, but it is. There is a fine line and we can't read too much into anything.

Additionally, we obviously can't stop members from privately contacting each other and dealing exclusively via PM/IM/email, but the aforementioned declarations in posts will be handled.

Again, it's a fine line, when you see something, point it out to the staff via PM/report and we will apply the rules.


:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Like I said in an earlier post, anything shown can potentially be for sale, an adverisement or whatever. You don't have to be so dramatic and say "I'd just delete the 'code of conduct' "

Its not like there are never mods in here, they are here every day. If they think there is a problem they take care of it. Like the builder soap opera. That was handled and now one controller manufacturers thread was moved to the customer relations area as well.

This is turning in to a gripe session and there isn't any reasoning. The mods have spoken.

[SexyMF]

And you really picked a bad person to pointless attack... youve done nothing but trash people this whole thread I'm surprised you're still around.

Feeling so confident because a moderator finally spoke?

I'm still around because I actually contribute to this forum and are entitled to post polls and debate my standpoint. Don't cry when somebody else pushes a point.

In this case the moderator is simply looking the other way and ignoring the forum code. Nothing I can do about that.

[Vapor]

For now I will ignore the flaming/baiting to ask this: what's your agenda in this thread?

In my opinion, you are most definitely coming across as a "spoil sport" (even jealous) and I'm very curious as to why...

We have only disallowed custom unit builds and people selling (anything) outside of Classifieds. We don't allow people to say "contact me in PM" or anything like that. We are enforcing those rules.

The rules absolutely do not say that those who make units/controllers/evaps/etc. can't post the progress/results of their design/development/work/etc in the forum. Heck, many of the people who do make the parts need the feedback of the forum so that they know what the people want.

[mike8913]

OK, this isn't a governmental supremacy clause. It's like when the security guards at high school caught us smoking, it was against the rules, but as long as we put it out they didn't give any gripe. Let's just end this thread already, it's useless.

[Fujimitsu]

Let's just end this thread already, it's useless.

:up:

[gosmeyer]

This is a complete joke.

[MorGo7h]

I disagree!

[killermiller]

I disagree!

Care to state why?

[SexyMF]

Frankly Fujimitsu your weight in this discussion is very light. You have never started a thread in this particular forum. You have never built a system (or shared it with us). Nor have you even been a member of XS for long. So you are really not up to the play with this forum.

This also applies to mike8913. You are a self confessed noob.
Killermiller is a new arrival and has also never made anything. Although is gearing towards a build.

These comments are not flaming. It just adds a touch of reality to those people who are weighing into something they really know little about.



I am pleased you are reading this Vapor.

What I would like to see - for the benefit of ALL - is the consolidation of all services and sales into stickies. Yes I wanted them in the Builders section but I would be satisfied with stickies in this forum.

People are always asking for prices and how sells what and builds what.
It is disjointed information. Consolidating it would help new people and old-hands know what members have what things and services available.

A lot more people are making blocks, hold-downs, evaporators, grills etc etc now. I've lost track of who. Newcomers don't stand a chance.

Ironically this would help people sell things and it would generate even more advertising for them. If this is the way it is going to be then so be it. It should be organized then.

[killermiller]

Frankly Fujimitsu your weight in this discussion is very light. You have never started a thread in this particular forum. You have never built a system (or shared it with us). Nor have you even been a member of XS for long. So you are really not up to the play with this forum.

This also applies to mike8913. You are a self confessed noob.
Killermiller is a new arrival and has also never made anything. Although is gearing towards a build.

These comments are not flaming. It just adds a touch of reality to those people who are weighing into something they really know little about.



I am pleased you are reading this Vapor.

What I would like to see - for the benefit of ALL - is the consolidation of all services and sales into stickies. Yes I wanted them in the Builders section but I would be satisfied with stickies in this forum.

People are always asking for prices and how sells what and builds what.
It is disjointed information. Consolidating it would help new people and old-hands know what members have what things and services available.

A lot more people are making blocks, hold-downs, evaporators, grills etc etc now. I've lost track of who. Newcomers don't stand a chance.

Ironically this would help people sell things and it would generate even more advertising for them. If this is the way it is going to be then so be it. It should be organized then.

Noob's or not we are all members of the forum, and since we are allowed to engage in discussions, we are just stating our opinions. I for one, and partial to intelligent discussions and debate rather then name calling.

I like the way your last remark stated what you would like done. I for one, agree once you stated it that way. It would be nice to see all the products that our fellow members have created on one place. I still do, however, disagree with the original poll question since it was stated in that paticular manner.:up:

[mike8913]

I may have proclaimed myself as a "noob", but for good reason. I haven't built a unit yet and this forum helps me A LOT with research and idea development. However, this puts me in a position to answer your thread/poll in a much more meaningful way. Because I have no experience with phase units: having all the components and their developmental process available all in one section makes everything extraordinarily simple for me to interpret. So, by bringing up my self-proclaimed "noobitty" you're only supporting the "nay" responders to this thread. Please refrain from personally attacking anyone in these forums, it isn't necessary.

[runmc]

SexyMF -

If you are happy with the results of your poll, I will close this thread as it seems it has made a turn from being a friendly discussion directed at the posted topic.

[jinu117]

Since Runmc is busy right now, I will be closing the thread.