Pls comment my Pot-Design

[pReya]

Hey there,

i'm new to LN2-Cooling, but i read a lot over the last weeks. So is sat at my desk and started drawing. That's what came out:

http://www.m-s-medien.de/sketch1.jpg

I would appreciate if you guys could give some feedback on that design!

Thanks!

P.S.: Sorry for my bad english, i'm german, but i'm doin' my best.

[metro.cl]

Units are in mm right?

From what i also have read,

Center pole should be longer if you want to use it for LN2, say 40mm.

Side walls should be 8mm or 6mm wide, 3mm is to little.

For Dry ice the bottom thickness is ok, but for ln2 you need a thicker one.

Try to get the hold own to be installed on top of the pot.

You can make a smaller one also i'm doing one 170mm high and 90mm wide. (pretty similar design)

[pReya]

Units are in mm right?

From what i also have read,

Center pole should be longer if you want to use it for LN2, say 40mm.

Side walls should be 8mm or 6mm wide, 3mm is to little.

For Dry ice the bottom thickness is ok, but for ln2 you need a thicker one.

Try to get the hold own to be installed on top of the pot.

You can make a smaller one also i'm doing one 170mm high and 90mm wide. (pretty similar design)

Yes, units are in mm!

Okay, i will double the height of the pole!

Hmm, i made the side walls that thin, to gather more volume. I read, that i need aprox. 1l of LN2 in 10 minutes. So, the pot has now a volume about 700ml, and i still hope, this is enough.

What do you mean with "bottom thickness"? Just the bottom of the tower, or the whole bottom part of the pot?

When i get you right (sorry again for my bad english), you want me to move the hold to the top? Why should i do this?

Thank you very much for your comment!

[metro.cl]

Yes, units are in mm!

Okay, i will double the height of the pole!

Hmm, i made the side walls that thin, to gather more volume. I read, that i need aprox. 1l of LN2 in 10 minutes. So, the pot has now a volume about 700ml, and i still hope, this is enough.

What do you mean with "bottom thickness"? Just the bottom of the tower, or the whole bottom part of the pot?

When i get you right (sorry again for my bad english), you want me to move the hold to the top? Why should i do this?

Thank you very much for your comment!

You cant put 700ml of LN2 at once in your pot you will have problems because temps should be too low.

Bottom thickness you have is 1MM that is ok for dryice since you need to transfer the heat as fast as posible, but with LN2 you want it to transfer it a bit more slowly (or badly) since most CPUs can only take -120ºC.

The top hold down make is a lot easier to insulate the pot, is just a preference, look at kingpin F1 unit.

How wide is the pot?

[pReya]

You cant put 700ml of LN2 at once in your pot you will have problems because temps should be too low.

Bottom thickness you have is 1MM that is ok for dryice since you need to transfer the heat as fast as posible, but with LN2 you want it to transfer it a bit more slowly (or badly) since most CPUs can only take -120ºC.

The top hold down make is a lot easier to insulate the pot, is just a preference, look at kingpin F1 unit.

How wide is the pot?

Yeah, of course i know, i can't fill the pot with 100% of its volume, but let's say i can fill in 40%. So, the bigger the pot is, the more LN2 can be filled in.

Okay, i changed my bottom thickness to 15mm

I don't know, but i don't like the top hold... But thanks for the idea!

[T_M]

You will not be filling (or even 40%) your pot with LN2 ;)
Once the pot is down to temperature, you will literally just be splashing it with LN2.
If you dont plan to use the pot for dry ice, cut the whole top half of the pot off from the design

[pReya]

So, i changed the design again. Sidewalls are now 5mm all over the pot. I also cut the height to 150mm, and made the center pole 40mm high.

The cooler will be produced by a german watercooling-company. But the told me it isn't possible to produce my design because if the center pole. So they asked me, if they should just erase the center pole.

Now i want to know: How important is the center pole in a LN2-Cooler? There will be a 45nm Penryn with 130 Watts of TDP and four cores above the cooler, and i want to reach the best frequency possible...

The only way to produce a cooler with center pole, is to do it in two parts and to weld (don't know the exact word in english, it's not exactly welding) them together...

[Extera]

The centerpole is rather important to hold some more load.
Maby you should try to find an other company ho wants to build your pot... I have a pot without centerpole now, and i'm looking for a pot with some more mass on the cpu atm.

I prefer some more lenght asewell, bu thats more a personal feeling, a longer tube is more difficult to make, so a shorter on would be beter for production.

[pReya]

http://www.m-s-medien.de/projekt45/PICT0011.jpg
http://www.m-s-medien.de/projekt45/PICT0012.jpg
http://www.m-s-medien.de/projekt45/PICT0013.jpg
http://www.m-s-medien.de/projekt45/PICT0014.jpg
http://www.m-s-medien.de/projekt45/PICT0015.jpg
http://www.m-s-medien.de/projekt45/PICT0016.jpg
http://www.m-s-medien.de/projekt45/PICT0017.jpg
http://www.m-s-medien.de/projekt45/PICT0018.jpg
http://www.m-s-medien.de/projekt45/PICT0019.jpg
http://www.m-s-medien.de/projekt45/PICT0020.jpg

[dinos22]

SEX ON THE BEACH right there man

wish i had friends with equipment like that to experiment with different designs

[skullfcuk]

So that Pot is all made from one piece of Copper? Also, why the torch treatment?? Is that to help the metal do something better?

[pReya]

Actually it is made out of three parts. It has nothing to do with the sketches from the beginning, i had to change everything.

So, here is the final drawing:
http://www.m-s-medien.de/projekt45/sketchfinal.jpg

Here you can recognise the three parts. They are all pressed and soldered together!

[dinos22]

it would have been better if you could have made it out of a single chunk or two parts at most

[G H Z]

Very nice, looking forward to some results :clap:

[skullfcuk]

Ahh, it's all clear now. Thanks, looks very involved. I look forward to seeing your results also.

[Freddie123]

I like the kind of 'reverse stepper' centre pole. Sexy. Would have been nice if those bottom 2 pieces could have been 1 piece but hey ho

[kayl]

nice work :up:
Good to see ppl making their own

[pReya]

The Pot performs great! Even if it is filled about 50% with LN2, the Temps are stable at about -60 to -70°C...

Pictures and Videos coming soon!

[ilkkahy]

You mean temps are -70c when container is half full of Ln2?

I dont want to comment that design really.. If you are happy thats great :up:

[pReya]

Yeah, but i just filled the pot once, so i think after some more refills the copper will go cooler and cooler...

Why don't you "really" want to comment that design? So bad?

[Trox]

Yeah, but i just filled the pot once, so i think after some more refills the copper will go cooler and cooler...

Why don't you "really" want to comment that design? So bad?

Congrats, im looking to do my first pot too, good iniciative!

enjoy it

2nd pot will be better ^^ (im not saying its bad, i dont know anything about pots)

[pReya]

Here you can see my results:
http://www.pc-max.de/forum/article.php?&a=680

I hope, i'm not getting punished for Advertising, but this article is, what came out of my initiative...

[Zannema]

Nice, 4,7ghz max clocked?

[killert]

Nice, 4,7ghz max clocked?

Can't that be done on water or Single stage?

[pReya]

Yeah, you're right... 4,7Ghz is pretty sad for LN2. But that was just the bad CPU. It was an Engineering Sample...

[Zannema]

Yeah, you're right... 4,7Ghz is pretty sad for LN2. But that was just the bad CPU. It was an Engineering Sample...


:( :( :( :( , i hope that you find a new QX;)

Anyway nice result bro :up:

[Supreme(CDW)]

Sad
you had realy a bad 45nm!!
Here in holland there is someone that hits the 4700mhz with chilled air tuniq tower

Beter luck next time!!

[dinos22]

LOL you used this for subzero??????

http://www.pc-max.de/forum/upload/release/5528_1.jpeg

i don't think the chip is bad
it seems that you just haven't got experience benching with LN2 and 45nm. They are massively coldbugged and will experience cold boot problems which is probably what was happening to you until you got the temps right.

Once you're in windows you can cool it a lot more and every chip is different. I bet you if you stick a decent air cooler on it you will bench it on 4.4Ghz without much of an issue

there is a great sticky here by Kingpin going through insulation for LN2. You need to read it as the icing in and around the socket is too big and may also impact stability. Also use Ceramique in future for subzero :)

hahaha sticking a rose in the dewar and then slamming it on concrete floor >> gold hehehe

[pReya]

LOL you used this for subzero??????

http://www.pc-max.de/forum/upload/release/5528_1.jpeg

i don't think the chip is bad
it seems that you just haven't got experience benching with LN2 and 45nm. They are massively coldbugged and will experience cold boot problems which is probably what was happening to you until you got the temps right.

Once you're in windows you can cool it a lot more and every chip is different. I bet you if you stick a decent air cooler on it you will bench it on 4.4Ghz without much of an issue

there is a great sticky here by Kingpin going through insulation for LN2. You need to read it as the icing in and around the socket is too big and may also impact stability. Also use Ceramique in future for subzero :)

hahaha sticking a rose in the dewar and then slamming it on concrete floor >> gold hehehe

Yes, i am a newbie to LN2, but I did my homework before. About the thermal paste. I used several ones. Ceramique-based too, and i also asked the companies, how their products will perform in subzero regions. I got the answer, that the liquid metal would perform best, and i can confirm, it's true. But i think in this temperature-regions thermal paste is not that important.

And yes, i do know about coldbugs and coldboot problems, and i figured the temps out. About -70°C was the best... And i tried everything from -20°C to -140°C.

About the insulation: you need to read the text, to understand it. The pictures show my first try, where my insualtion was very bad. I used some more insulation around the socket in the next tries, and it worked very well. Absolutely no problems with condensation!

But thanks anyways for your comment!

[Fujimitsu]

. About the thermal paste. I used several ones. Ceramique-based too, and i also asked the companies, how their products will perform in subzero regions. I got the answer, that the liquid metal would perform best, and i can confirm, it's true.

Really? Most everyone's experience seems to be that it hardens/cracks under low temps. I never tried anything but ceramique, as this seemed to be conventional wisdom.

[pReya]

Here's what i got from the Coollaboratory Support (i translated it to english):


Dear Mr. Stückler,

thanks for your question.
The Coollaboratory Liquid Pro becomes solid below 10°C, but the performance stays the same, because it has already adapted to the CPU-Surface. In general you have the full performance at temperatures between -273° and ca. 1000°C.


Best regards,

Coollaboratory Support

I can definetely confirm this statement. But it's important, not to start the cooling with LN2. You have to use the empty port for about half an hour (and it must be above 10°C) to let the thermal paste adjust itself.

[ilkkahy]

You done some real research about that?

I would use just plain silicone based thermal grease with ln2. It does its job fine and certainly works.

I understand the point what coollabotarys statement means but i still wouldnt count on that its better than normal thermal grease. Things arent necessarily as simple as stated (different expansion rates between metals and so on).

Give me load test temps between normal thermal grease and liquid metal with exact same setup using Ln2 at -150c. If liquid metal proves really to be better ill shut up.