Performance difference in Thermochill PA120.3? - Low v high CFM

[robodude666]

Hey guys,

My birthday is coming up (yay!) and I'm putting together a liquid cooling parts list. I decided to go big or go home and pickup the Thermochill PA120.3 radiator. I am currently selecting fans and was originally planning on using el cheap Yate Loons but after hearing from Empty_Quarter about how quiet the Scythe fans I decided to go with Scythe fans.

Scythe makes many nice fans and I'm currently looking at the Scythe KAZE-JYUNI "Slip Scream" series as it provides good performance and price compared to the S-Flex.

My question for you guys, what kind of a difference does CFM make on the Thermochill rad? I know its decided for low (<100CFM) fans, but how much of a difference?

Based on Jab-Tech (where i'll most likely get my stuff) there are a few models that I'm interested in..

40CFM @ 10dB
68CFM @ 24dB
88CFM @ 33dB
110CFM @ 37dB

I want low-noise as the computer will live in my room and I tend to leave it on overnight and prefer to sleep at night.

I like the sound of 40CFM @ 10dB, thats like totally silent. But how much performance would I expect to gain if I get the 68CFM version?

Empty_Quarter said he has the 20.1dB S-Flex, so 24dB wouldn't be tooo much louder.

Thanks,
-robodude666

[skuliaxe]

Empty_Quarter said he has the 20.1dB S-Flex, so 24dB wouldn't be tooo much louder.


That might very well be true. The standard living room background noise is around 20dB. So a fan just over that would be considered very silent.

As for the performance... it all depends. I would get fans that support ~7v-12v settings + a fan controller. That way you can have the fans on ~80-90% speeds during usage and then ~40-50% during sleepy time :rolleyes:

--> Reason I say 80-90% but not 100% is because most fans get a lot more noisy in the last % up to 100% (not worth it).

I currently have the PA120.3 with only one Yate Loon fan (exhaust) cooling my Q6600 and X1900XT. If I´m only surfing the web or keeping the computer on over night, I CAN TURN ALL FANS OFF (except for the PSU fan). Temperatures go to about 45°c on the CPU, but who cares. It´s life expectancy might drop by a 1% and it isn´t like I´m not going to upgrade anyway within 8years (more like 2 minimum :D)

When that ONE Yate Loon fan is running on the PA120.3 at 60% my temps are around 34°c (CPU) when the computer has been turned on for 12hrs.) it´s very silent.

P.S.: I could always run a test for you. Fans @ Off/40/50/60/70/80/90/100%
But remember, I only have ONE fan on the PA120.3
I could add another if you like...

[robodude666]

Hey,

Thanks for the fast reply.

So you suggest I should get the 88CFM @ 33dB or 110CFM @ 37dB fan and use a fan controller? I always wanted the silverstone controller. It looks nice.

If you wouldn't mind, or are bored, I'd appreciate it if you could run some tests.

-robodude666

[Marci]

My question for you guys, what kind of a difference does CFM make on the Thermochill rad? I know its decided for low (<100CFM) fans, but how much of a difference?

Ultimately, the CFM determines what wattage of heat the radiator can move to the air...

Highly recommend you have a read of this: http://www.over-clock.com/ivb/index.php?showtopic=20277

[step]

Did step 1, it's recommending me an 1800W PSU. Uhoh.

[Xilikon]

step, just input only the components you will be watercooling, not the whole computer ;) Ditch harddisks, optical drives and other peripherals.

Usually, just input the cpu and video card.

[Marci]

You're s'posed to be calculating maximum possible heatload, not the power consumption of the entire PC...

Fill in only the CPU and GPU fields (ie: the fields for those items upon which you intend to mount a waterblock), and the pump field (as your pump dumps heat into the system too). Hit calculate, and knock 38w off the result. What you have left is your heatload.

[dnottis]

Im using a quad @ 3.6Ghz 1.47v (Fuzion) with GTX 621mhz core (mcw60) on a PA120.2. I have some high speed TT fans that are on a fan controller and go from about 40 CFM to 96CFM (45db). When running prime95 25.5 I can drop the fans and my temp rise about 4 degrees than when they are on high. On high its deafening, on low speed its silent. High speed fans are only going to give you a few deg and with a bigger rad like the 120.3 yours will prolly be cooler than mine anyways. I'd get a fan controller that way when you are benching you can turn them up, when just ideling they can run on low.

Those rating look dodgy to me though. 88 CFM @ 33 dba?? From 10 feet away maybe..

[skuliaxe]

Hey,

Thanks for the fast reply.

So you suggest I should get the 88CFM @ 33dB or 110CFM @ 37dB fan and use a fan controller? I always wanted the silverstone controller. It looks nice.

If you wouldn't mind, or are bored, I'd appreciate it if you could run some tests.

-robodude666

From those fans I would go with the 88CFM as anything over that is overkill for the PA120.3 (they won´t cool any better).

Here is a 26x 120mm fan roundup that should help you a lot (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=137832). In short, the conclusion was that the Yate Loons are VERY god for the price and the S-Flex are also recommended.

As for a fan controller I can recommend the Sunbeam Theta (http://www.xoxide.com/sunbeam-theta-tp101.html), 8 fan controller and 8 thermal sensors. I don´t use the thermal sensors but as a fan controller i´m very happy with this product. The software looks hideous, but it does it´s job :)

P.S.: I´ll do some test in the weekend if I have some spare time.

[Marci]

That roundup isn't conclusive when it comes to watercooling - fan characteristics change as soon as you mount them on a radiator. Better to use THIS THREAD (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=150261) for a reference point for fan selection for use with watercooling. I don't think there's a fan out there that'll move 88cfm thru a radiator at anywhere near 33dB...

[step]

You're s'posed to be calculating maximum possible heatload, not the power consumption of the entire PC...Well it still was interesting. I calculated what I had running on this pc at one time (no longer SLI etc) and that was it's recommendation.

[Xilikon]

Did anyone try the new Scythe Kaze Jyuni line ?

[robodude666]

Wow! I didn't expect this many replies this quickly. Thanks a lot!

Marci, great how-to! Thanks! It recommended me an S-Flex fan at about 1400RPM. I did it very quickly and didn't look at the numbers exactly so it might be a tad off.

I think I will go with the 88CFM @ 33dB fan as its 1600RPM and just use a fan controller to adjust the speed.

[step]

I think I will go with the 88CFM @ 33dB fan as its 1600RPM and just use a fan controller to adjust the speed.How anal are you about noise? For 200 RPM I really wouldn't bother going to all that trouble. Though this is coming from a guy who can't hear a Sunon 42db fan due to the window aircon unit being louder :P

[Nate P.]

Hey Robo, is that you from HL? Happy B-day man! Nice your getting into water cooling...

-Nate P. (aka yellowhello at HL)

[robodude666]

Well, my hearing is not that great music wise... Like, I cant tell what frequency is being played and what a C is or what a D note is.. But I can hear stuff from far away fairly well.. Although much worse now from all the metal and rock...

I bought these buggers when getting my computer:

Cooler Master 6-Pack 80mm Fans (SAF-S83-E1)
http://www.xoxide.com/cooler-master-6-pack-80mm-fans.html

and they are rated for
Air Flow: 28.894 CFM
Noise: 24.4dBA

But they are FAR louder than my stock Raidmax fans. I had to remove them and replace my stock fans back which hardly push any air. I got a Thermaltake Toughpower power supply that has a super silent fan. My system not uses:

1x 120mm (stock)
1x 80mm (stock)
1x 80mm (CPU)
1x 120mm (PSU)

and is fairly silent.. I can still hear it, but with music playing its hard. At night I can hear it much better. My video card, x1950pro, is super loud though. I need to control the fan's speed in order to not have it sound like a hurricane...

My old dell had a single 92mm fan and was FAR FAR FAR louder than my current rig.. so I'm pretty happy. I'd like to have a silent system as my mom feels bad for my system when its loud... So, um, yea.

If the CM fans really were 24dB, then 33dB will be total hell compared to how loud they were.. so a fan controller would be nice.... just in case.

-Nate P. (aka yellowhello at HL)

I don't know who you are at all ;)

-robodude666

[Nate P.]

I don't know who you are at all ;)

-robodude666
Aww, come on man!:( You don't remember this avatar?

[robodude666]

Aww, come on man!:( You don't remember this avatar?

YGM

Hey Robo, is that you from HL? Happy B-day man! Nice your getting into water cooling...

I've been planning to liquid cool my system far before april, when I got my system. Sadly things came up and I decided to spend my money otherwise and ended up putting off liquid cooling.. Hopefully I can get it working now. I'm interested to see how hard it is to squeeze a PA120.3 + dual block + pump + res loop into a mid-tower Raidmax Smilodon case...

-robodude666

[skuliaxe]

That roundup isn't conclusive when it comes to watercooling - fan characteristics change as soon as you mount them on a radiator. Better to use THIS THREAD (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=150261) for a reference point for fan selection for use with watercooling. I don't think there's a fan out there that'll move 88cfm thru a radiator at anywhere near 33dB...

I you scroll a bit down in the roundup thread, you get to a section called Restricted airflow (radiator) setup (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2080061&postcount=4). So the thread I posted actually has both, resticted (radiator) and non resticed airflow (open air).
Unless I missed your point :)

[Marci]

Cathar's fan testing I linked to was done on PA Series radiators. Vapor's on MCR Series. The OP is using a PA Series radiator... therefore, use the fan data generated on a PA Series radiator... Swiftech radiators have diff characteristics (fpi, depth, pressure drop) so Vapor's data isn't directly applicable to ThermoChill radiators.

Worded badly in previous quoted post - substitute "watercooling" for "ThermoChill radiators"...