Leak?

[PhilDoc]

I have a single stage phase change that Baker 18 built about 4 years ago. I think its filled with R22, but not sure. Its been sitting in storage for the last three years. Who knows what's been growing on it there's, lol.

Anyway, I decided to fire it up today. First attempt, nothing after 20 min. Straight 24C. I found some loose connections and then fired it up and it ran unloaded to -67C. Problem is it took about 15min to get there, which makes me think that there's a leak.

I checked out all the areas in the insulation that had defects, but nothing obvious. To make a long story short, before I just mounted it and tested it under load or took off the insulation and checked more thoroughly for leaks, I thought I'd see if the experts had any ideas or suggestions.

Thanks for any help.

[[XC] gomeler]

Look for any oil on the piping or insulation, that'll indicate a leak. Otherwise inspect the suction-line as they are very prone to cracks and leaking. -67C unloaded is rather cold for a single-stage, that's some deep vacuum meaning either it was considerably undercharged or it's leaking. Really need to evac the system, charge it up with 300psi of nitrogen and whip out a toothbrush.

[PhilDoc]

There's no oil on the piping or insulation. It's probably undercharged, but I felt that way about it when I first recieved it 4 years ago. Its an extremely nice single stage and always took a while to get up to speed, but 15 min seems slower than I remember. As far as the temps, that's about what I was getting before, running a FX-55, 3.27G, and 1.8v. Occationally, it would go below -70C

Unfortunately, you're probably right about the evac. I was hoping to avoid that, but it has been sitting for some time.

Thanks for your help

[[XC] gomeler]

If you mention where you are located a local builder might be able to do a free inspection for you, otherwise just go to a local HVAC store and explain your situation. Usually they are rather nice guys and for free/small compensation they'll be willing to take a look at it.

[PhilDoc]

Hey, thanks, that's a great idea. I'm near Nashville, TN. If no one voluteers I'll have someone check it out. I have to have my LS rebuilt anyway. The suction line on it broke in half. It was being stored at the same place. Anyway, thanks a bunch for your advice :up:

[Ssilencer]

First start after a long time can take more time than usual to get on temps, anyway, the unit has to be undercharged for the current processors, but why don't you try a second start 5 minutes after the first, and also to test the unit under any load.

[tim-]

have it been laying arround for over 3years and still start with those tempture I would guess it's undercharged rather leaking as 3years is long time.

If it takes 3years to make a leak obvious in such a small unit it's really SMALL and I doubt anyone will find that leak even with 300PSI pressuretest and soap.

[Athens[2004]]

Can U post please 2-3 photos of your single stage , i want to see it.

[PhilDoc]

First start after a long time can take more time than usual to get on temps, anyway, the unit has to be undercharged for the current processors, but why don't you try a second start 5 minutes after the first, and also to test the unit under any load.


I'll mount it sometime today and see how it does. Supprisingly for being undercharged it handles more load than the LS. I use to try and run an acpi tweak for benching 2001se, which really loaded up the system. I knew of some cascades that would crash when trying to run the tweak. Anyway, the Baker unit would run the tweak, but the LS would just crash very quickly.

[PhilDoc]

;2394674']Can U post please 2-3 photos of your single stage , i want to see it.


Certainly, I'll take some photos of it today and post them. It may not be until this afternoon though.

[PhilDoc]

have it been laying arround for over 3years and still start with those tempture I would guess it's undercharged rather leaking as 3years is long time.

If it takes 3years to make a leak obvious in such a small unit it's really SMALL and I doubt anyone will find that leak even with 300PSI pressuretest and soap.


That's discouraging, lol. I guess I should be happy it runs considering what the LS went through.:)

[runmc]

My guess is it's a rotary running in a deep vacuum. Baker built several SS rotary coolers.
Maybe no leak at all. Why don't you find out what the unit is charged with from Baker. You might get by with a shot of r22 - r404a.

[PhilDoc]

My guess is it's a rotary running in a deep vacuum. Baker built several SS rotary coolers.
Maybe no leak at all. Why don't you find out what the unit is charged with from Baker. You might get by with a shot of r22 - r404a.

Sounds good. I'll try to get in touch with him. Thanks :up:

PS. Now that I think about it, I think you're right about it being a rotary.

[PhilDoc]

Ok here's some pics. Sorry for it being soooo dirty and that was after vacumming it, lol. Seriously, it does look a little cleaner in real life, but it does need some serious cleaning up.

[PhilDoc]

Here's a couple of it running. It took 18 min to go from 24C to -69C this morning. I'll mount it later today and see how she does under load.

[PhilDoc]

This is what my poor LS looks like atm. I had to dig it out. Several boxes of books that had fallen on top of it. I'm sure I can just get the suction hose replaced and then refill it. All the electronics are fine and the compressor runs. It'll give me a chance to recharge it with something better do some of the mods that Bowman suggested :up:

[Ssilencer]

I agree with RUNMC, that unit it's surely a beast, and had been charged for the loads at that moment(100watts maybe?), so perhaps it is now undercharged for current loads.
How much time it takes to get -60c in the second restart? (same day, start one time, let it get -60c, shut down and restart after some minutes)

[PhilDoc]

why don't you try a second start 5 minutes after the first


It took 12 min to get to -60C after sitting for an hour. I'll give it 5 min and see what she does.

[PhilDoc]

I agree with RUNMC, that unit it's surely a beast, and had been charged for the loads at that moment(100watts maybe?), so perhaps it is now undercharged for current loads.
How much time it takes to get -60c in the second restart? (same day, start one time, let it get -60c, shut down and restart after some minutes)

Thanks, yep, its a great "little" cooler. Baker 18 made some great one. I'll be back and post the time in 5 min

Alright, let it set for 5 min and it went from -20C to -60C in 3 min 45 sec. That's a little better. Time for a load test.

Btw, its just going to going on a dual core opteron 939 atm

Feel better?

[Duh]

:eek: ye old time unit!!!
congratz..

PS: how about editing and trying to join all those posts in one? :)

[Xeon th MG Pony]

First off all can't be R-22 at that temp as the oil would be sludge and refrigerant acid!

Secondly if it is running in a vacuum better get it charged to not run in a vac other wise had you been using it in that three years it would be in the trash!

Thirdly I'd tear it down and rebuild it to an acceptable quality of wiring and component lay out, that there will improve both looks and function, start by tossing on a nice proper condencer fan!! Any oil that would have leaked will be under the mess/mass of insulation.

[PhilDoc]

Possibly, either way its a mute point atm. It seems my cpu has a cold bug and wont even boot at lower than -30C.

The unit was just built for benching at the time. As far as function I think in the high -60C is quite good for a single stage regardless of looks. For that matter the only pic I put up that isn't rotated is the second one. If you go by those, my wavemast case is lob sidded as well. But as I said before it was built simply for temps. If what I wanted was just looks I'd just get the LS running. IMHO, there isn't a single homemade cooler that I've seen that really looks all that good. All the thing really needs is a charge if that, but thanks for your input.

I have 4 Delta EHE that usually ran with the unit. I had borrowed them some time ago. These fans were just temporary fans to see if it would run. The bare wire is there because one of the connectors was broken when I got it out of storage. Didn't have a replacement, so I just wrapped one in there so I could test the unit.

The insulation is there to keep the compressor from icing over during benching. When this happened I would loose some temps until it melted. That wouldn't be a problem, but when you have a frozen video card that tends to condense at low temps, as the X800XTPE tended, you don't want to have to wait for the temps to come back up. It served its purpose.

Oh, yes, the gas, like I said in the first post, I don't remember for sure what he used.

Sorry for rambling in the begining, but I had to type quickly before I went over -30C and the maching rebooted.

[[XC] 2long4u]

You should tune it so it doesn't go less than -30c then it would be able to handle a massive load.

[PhilDoc]

You should tune it so it doesn't go less than -30c then it would be able to handle a massive load.


That actually, is an excellent idea. Probably would want to go a little lower. I was probably losing OC before then. Not really sure how this is done though. Probably the amount and type of gas. A better choice to do this on may be the LS. Can't remember if in the control you can set the max temp, doubtful. I'll look at the tutorials again and see what they have to say. Thanks

[[XC] 2long4u]

You would shorten the captube. I don't have a p/t chart but it would be pretty strait forward. It would be easy on the compressor as it wouldn't have to work as hard. Low side pressure would be 10 psi with R502 at -30F.

[PhilDoc]

You would shorten the captube. I don't have a p/t chart but it would be pretty strait forward. It would be easy on the compressor as it wouldn't have to work as hard. Low side pressure would be 10 psi with R502 at -30F.


Those are all excellent thoughts, but I think what I really need is some way to regulate the tempurature beyond what you're suggesting. If I could find a way to adjust the cooling from lets say 0C to -30C, I'd be in business.

The problem is that I dont really know exactly what temp the cpu likes. I could try to find the sweat spot and then get the cooler tuned to that temp, but with only having a few seconds at each temp it would take multiple shut downs, if it were possible at all.

[tim-]

phildoc:
a cpev will do the thing for you.

[PhilDoc]

phildoc:
a cpev will do the thing for you.

Excellent, I did a search and some quick reading and this may be what I need. I'll do some more reading, but it may just be the trick for my LS as it needs work anyway.

I also saw a short definition of a Thermostatic expansion valve. From what it said this may be more versital.

Anyway, thanks for the suggestion. You're all being very helpful :up:

[tim-]

thermostatic expansion valve, also known as tev isn't what you're looking for. it's controlled by superheat and is really slow and doesn't work well when load vary very much.

cpev is what you're looking for, if you want to adjust tempture and load capacity. it's easy to adjust.. it's just a screw to adjust.
honestly I doubt you will have any cold bugs with a SS.

regards
Tim

[Xeon th MG Pony]

Along with CPEV by rebuilding it with better parts placement will net you better performance, the better looks will be just a pleasant side effect.

[PhilDoc]

Along with CPEV by rebuilding it with better parts placement will net you better performance, the better looks will be just a pleasant side effect.


I'll be rebuilding the LS that I Have. I only fired up the Baker 18 unit to see if still worked and so I could see how the cpu did under cold temps. If I move to a cpu that need more cooling I'll look into having this unit redone. Thanks

[PhilDoc]

thermostatic expansion valve, also known as tev isn't what you're looking for. it's controlled by superheat and is really slow and doesn't work well when load vary very much.

cpev is what you're looking for, if you want to adjust tempture and load capacity. it's easy to adjust.. it's just a screw to adjust.
honestly I doubt you will have any cold bugs with a SS.

regards
Tim


Sounds great Tim. The cold bug on AMD cpu's comes at relitivly high temps. The one I have on this cpu is mild compaired to most. Many show up in the + temp range. If the unit will do -30C under load and can be adjusted to 0C, I'll be in good shape to max the cpu I have to work with atm. I'll get the suction hose replace, have a cpev valve put in and have it regassed, a tuned with my computer for -30C. Thanks for all of your great advice.

[tim-]

where do you live? maybe any of all builders here can help you?

regards
Tim

[PhilDoc]

where do you live? maybe any of all builders here can help you?

regards
Tim

I live near Nashville, TN. Any help would be greatly appreciate.

[PhilDoc]

I guess no one lives near Nashville. No biggie, I'll read through all the stickies carefully, then all I'll need is someone to do the brazing and gas it. Thanks again for all the great help everyone has giving me!!!!