David's naked cascade

[piotres]

Hello

I want to show You one or mine next cascades - this time it's simple 2 stager without any gadgets - just metal baseplate and 2 rotaries :D .

Specs :

compressors: Toshiba PG180-X1C on 1st stage (11000 BTU) and TECO KETC176ELBC-A on 2nd stage (10755 BTU)
evap: steeper, 40 mm tall
XV: Danfoss TES2 / captube 0.9 mm
HX: Plate HX, 12 plates
condenser: double condensor, 2 x 2 rows condensors, cooled by 4 x 120/38mm mm high flow fans (NBM and Sunon)
refrigerants : R507/R1150
oilseparator : ESK Schultze with automatic oil back
safety : RANCO cut-off
case : Steel zincked baseplate - 50 x 35 cm
others: LCD HX out temperature display, 2 gagues - on both stages' discharge, wheels for baseplate, 28 mm thick insulation on suction line :D

http://www.members.lycos.co.uk/piotres2/david/1.jpg

http://www.members.lycos.co.uk/piotres2/david/2.jpg

http://www.members.lycos.co.uk/piotres2/david/3.jpg

First I've tried captube 0.8mm on 1st stage, but discharge on this stage goes over 22 bara when I load 2nd stage evap with 225W :eek: .....
http://www.members.lycos.co.uk/piotres2/david/4.jpg

..... so I decide to swap it for Danfoss TES2 TXV :yepp: .

http://www.members.lycos.co.uk/piotres2/david/5.jpg

http://www.members.lycos.co.uk/piotres2/david/6.jpg

http://www.members.lycos.co.uk/piotres2/david/7.jpg

http://www.members.lycos.co.uk/piotres2/david/8.jpg

http://www.members.lycos.co.uk/piotres2/david/9.jpg

Now pressure is 14-16 bara all the time, even with 225W load :) . Near -56*C 1st stage unloaded :D .

http://www.members.lycos.co.uk/piotres2/david/10.jpg

http://www.members.lycos.co.uk/piotres2/david/11.jpg

Small LCD thermo made around 5*C mistake, as always :ROTF: .

http://www.members.lycos.co.uk/piotres2/david/12.jpg

http://www.members.lycos.co.uk/piotres2/david/13.jpg

http://www.members.lycos.co.uk/piotres2/david/14.jpg

http://www.members.lycos.co.uk/piotres2/david/15.jpg

http://www.members.lycos.co.uk/piotres2/david/16.jpg

No load final charge.

http://www.members.lycos.co.uk/piotres2/david/17.jpg

225W load :) .

Cascade is ready

Regards
Peter

[DEVIL K-ce]

Hehe Piotrek - Team Poland Tiny Cascade^2 :p:

Nice work as always :up:


Martin

[Freddie123]

Great as always Piotres, really nice temps too, tiny delta between load and idle. Impressive as always.

[Jack]

Nice!

I never heard of that oilsep, does it work well?

[noobzed]

impressive as always...

look at the finition : insulation, piping, whole aspect

good job piotr

[n00b 0f l337]

Whats 2nd stage high side wtih only a -31C hx? Sounds like with captube you just had it plain too long!

[Marvin]

Nice, what gases did you use ?
[]s
ps. sorry i read you used R507/R1150.
good job

[n00b 0f l337]

Nice receiver as well, good way to make it up, you'd probably find though with our systems we don't really need them. No expansion tank either or is the oil sep enough? Whats your static pressure like? Other then that very good, neater insulation too!

[Nosfer@tu]

Pm Price ? :)

I know I ALWAYS ask and dont buy enough :D BUT I CANT HELP IT :D

[SoddemFX]

Nice receiver as well, good way to make it up, you'd probably find though with our systems we don't really need them. No expansion tank either or is the oil sep enough? Whats your static pressure like? Other then that very good, neater insulation too!

A TEV with no reciever?? It's possible by flooding the lower rows of the condensor i guess - but it's not good.

Did you make that reciever yourself piotres? looks nice :)

Tom

[Xeon th MG Pony]

A TEV with no reciever?? It's possible by flooding the lower rows of the condensor i guess - but it's not good.

Did you make that reciever yourself piotres? looks nice :)

Tom

Better let every heat pump manufacturer know that, I'm sure they'll be shocked to learn that how they been making them for the last 20 years has not been good ;)


Not only is it perfectly good but a very common practice, how ever your unit becomes charge criticle and tuning must be care fully don and your condencer properly over sized.

[Florent]

Really nice job as always :clap:

[piotres]

Yes that receiver is 100% homemade ...some 54/2mm pipe, one cooper 54mm cap, some cooper blocks and pipes ...+ black paint :D .

That -31*C is temperature of HX end with TES2, but that has been one of first runs and temperature wasn't really good. Now HX with 225W on evap is -35 to -38*C all the time :) .

ESK Schultze - it's oilsep from cold_ice's first ever built cascade :D . He say that it's very expensive - around 260 eur :eek: .

Thanks for all comments :up: .

Regards
Peter

[SoddemFX]

Better let every heat pump manufacturer know that, I'm sure they'll be shocked to learn that how they been making them for the last 20 years has not been good ;)


Not only is it perfectly good but a very common practice, how ever your unit becomes charge criticle and tuning must be care fully don and your condencer properly over sized.

I can imagine it'd be pretty charge sensitive, i guess oversizing a condensor to avoid fitting a reciever is just to reduce costs of the system. You are right tho but it only seems to be A/C systems that do that, probably one of the ways they can sell them so cheaply

Tom

[n00b 0f l337]

No mean to stomp on you Tom but not a whole lot of systems are using receivers anymore, many condensing units for sale still have them, but just as many have moved to oversized condensers. They are really only used in applications where the load will be changing in a large degree every once in a while (not like 200 to 220 watts, more like, 400 to 900 or the like sorta changes)
@Piotres: Stacking condensers works pretty well don't it? How much cfm and such are those fans? I've got a similar size condenser assembly, but its not large enough for 4 120mm, instead i'm hanging an inch or so over the size of the condenser (and no difference when its stacked) and running dual 172mm fans.

[SoddemFX]

...not a whole lot of systems are using receivers anymore...

Adam,

Stop talking rubbish. Show me any low temperature reciprocating compressor condensing unit of 15cc or greater which isn't designed to use / supplied with a reciever.

Tom

[n00b 0f l337]

Heat pumps are a major catagory, all of which have no receivers,
Little smaller then 15cc, but the AEA2410YXAXA and many other condensing units. In much larger systems where the load changes alot though, yes I almost always see a receiver, but in our smaller systems, show me on that actually needed it.

[SoddemFX]

AEA2410YXAXA is tiny. Any low temperature condensing unit designed for a TEV is supplied with a reciever.

We'll continue this in PM tomorrow, i feel bad for spamming piotres thread.

[n00b 0f l337]

Still relevant in many cases, his condenser is hopefully oversized, therefore he most likely in this system does not need a receiver. Correct?

[SoddemFX]

Piotres,

Did you "hopefully oversize" your condensor or did you intend to use a reciever?

Tom

[n00b 0f l337]

Seeing as he originally was working with cap tube only, I think its fair to say he did not expect to use a receiver. Also, since I bet he doesnt know the ratings on the two condensers he stacked, but knows they work beautifully, you can imagine he "knows" they are oversized (or can assume).

[Xeon th MG Pony]

I can imagine it'd be pretty charge sensitive, i guess oversizing a condensor to avoid fitting a reciever is just to reduce costs of the system. You are right tho but it only seems to be A/C systems that do that, probably one of the ways they can sell them so cheaply

Tom

Thats why it is called a critical charge method ;) And yes, it helps in making systems cheaper and reducing net charge, friendlier to the environment.

A/C and Heat pumps tend to have very stable loads as such do not need much reserve once opperating.

[Xeon th MG Pony]

Adam,

Stop talking rubbish. Show me any low temperature reciprocating compressor condensing unit of 15cc or greater which isn't designed to use / supplied with a reciever.

Tom

Technicaly on ANY system that experiances little to no serious spikes in duty a receiver will not be needed, as a small part of the condencer is used, but again most techs don't want this as it makes charging harder. With a receiver system you dump in 2 pounds check the SH, and call it a day (After vacing/repairing leak or such.

AEA2410YXAXA is tiny. Any low temperature condensing unit designed for a TEV is supplied with a reciever.

We'll continue this in PM tomorrow, i feel bad for spamming piotres thread.

Why PM start a new thread ?

[piotres]

OMG kings of offtopic are here :D :D :D No problem guys, I let You to talk about this here but not too much :D .

About receiver - I've used it to be sure that all will be working OK, it wasn't too expensive and time eating for me to make it :) .

I know that this doubled condensor is oversized, but I just want to be sure that this unit can work good even in 30+*C ambient :) .

Regards
Peter