Does "ion wind" have a place in future of processor cooling

[dinos22]

i was speaking to someone yesterday who mentioned the concept of ion wind which you can read about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ion_wind and a lot of other places. It got me thinking. Could ion wind be used to cool components such as processors and GPUs? If there are any people here familiar with the concept could you please chime in and give us your thoughts :)

Ion wind
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Ion wind, ionic wind, or coronal wind is a stream of ionized fluid generated by a strong electric field. Francis Hauksbee, curator of instruments for the Royal Society of London, made the earliest report of electric wind in 1709.[1] Myron Robinson completed an extensive bibliography and literature review during the 1950's resurgence of interest in the phenomena.[2]

Electric charges on conductors reside entirely on their external surface (see Faraday cage), and tend to concentrate more around sharp points and edges than on flat surfaces. This means that the electric field generated by charges on a sharp conductive point is much stronger than the field generated by the same charge residing on a large smooth spherical conductive shell. When this electric field strength exceeds what is known as the corona discharge inception voltage (CIV) gradient, it ionises the air about the tip, and a small faint purple jet of plasma can be seen in the dark on the conductive tip. Ionisation of the nearby air molecules result in generation of ionised air molecules having the same polarity as that of the charged tip. Subsequently, the tip repels the like-charged ion cloud, and the ion cloud immediately expands due to the repulsion between the ions themselves. This repulsion of ions creates an electric "wind" that emanates from the tip, which is usually accompanied by a hissing noise due to the change in air pressure at the tip.

Unlike the functionality of the Electrohydrodynamic (EHD) thruster, the net force generated by an ion wind device does not rely on the momentum transfer between the charged and the neutral air molecules, but only on the impulse that the charged ions gain during their repulsion from the tip. It is analogous to recoil of a gun when it fires a bullet. Due to this property, ion impulse devices may find use in spacecraft propulsion, even though ion wind forces are much smaller than those of an EHD thruster operated in air.

[moditir]

some people already do as an alternative to case fans

[dinos22]

some people already do as an alternative to case fans

i would like to see some examples if at all possible

[The Ripe Punani]

If given the chance to mature, yes I would think it could do some good in processor cooling.

[STEvil]

i would like to see some examples if at all possible

Ionizing air cleaners, been some debate on them due to Ozone production. Search button should yield two threads iirc.

Problem is the production of Ozone. Maybe its not a problem if we stay below a certain threshold which will only break the laminar movement of the air at the surface of the heatsink, but not really sure thats going to have a large effect on temperatures.

The impact could be easily measured I guess, just hook some cables up to a Tunique Tower and test temps at ionizing power levels vs stock sink (well, not exactly that easy, but you get the point - its testable if someone wants to take the time to build the test rig).

[nn_step]

Ionizing air cleaners, been some debate on them due to Ozone production. Search button should yield two threads iirc.

Problem is the production of Ozone. Maybe its not a problem if we stay below a certain threshold which will only break the laminar movement of the air at the surface of the heatsink, but not really sure thats going to have a large effect on temperatures.

The impact could be easily measured I guess, just hook some cables up to a Tunique Tower and test temps at ionizing power levels vs stock sink (well, not exactly that easy, but you get the point - its testable if someone wants to take the time to build the test rig).
well one can ponder if the change in magnetic field caused by it is sufficient to cause an electromagnetic pulse powerful enough to crash/generate errors during system bootup

[[XC] Lead Head]

Ionizing air cleaners, been some debate on them due to Ozone production. Search button should yield two threads iirc.

Problem is the production of Ozone. Maybe its not a problem if we stay below a certain threshold which will only break the laminar movement of the air at the surface of the heatsink, but not really sure thats going to have a large effect on temperatures.

The impact could be easily measured I guess, just hook some cables up to a Tunique Tower and test temps at ionizing power levels vs stock sink (well, not exactly that easy, but you get the point - its testable if someone wants to take the time to build the test rig).

Don't forget the multi-kv wires running right next to your metal PC case...

[ineedaname]

Isn't this the tech they use to make those glowy balls that have a electric bolt when you touch it.

I've read this a few times but I haven't quite figured out how it would help cpu cooling.

[Postal Dude]

I read an article on the BBC news website over here in the UK. That site claimed that an improvement of upto 250% efficiency could be possible.

I dont think massive amounts of power would be required. They are developing the tech with carbon nano tubes as the anodes on the surface, then a cathode at one edge of the HS to drag the ions away.

They only want enough power to drag the few molecule thick layer of air that gets stuck to the surface away. Hopefully it wont require anywhere near a KV to do this

[lad]

I read the article, too.

The researchers were talking about very small chips, not cpu-sized monsters. I got the impression they were using > 50,000 volts across 1/4". They mentioned using arrays of wires, close together, to reduce the voltage, but you'd still need 1,000's of volts.

As others here have mentioned, this effect breaks up the layer of stationary, attached air molecules sticking to the hot surface, which insulates it. The same effect which allows massive amounts of dust to attach to a spinning ceiling fan. The dimples on a golf ball reduce this effect, as do the points in the interior of a waterblock.

I'd think perforating the aluminum fins of a HSF with thousands of tiny holes would help reduce this layer, although the large amount of surface area in the new HSF's may not need this effect.

[situman]

Stick an Ionic Breeze infront of your computer and you're all set.

[TTmodder]

like this?
http://www.inventgeek.com/Projects/IonCooler2/Overview.aspx
http://www.inventgeek.com/Projects/IonCooler/Overview.aspx
:rolleyes:

[Anemone]

Does anyone recall when Intel first started experimenting with water cooling, and the prediction that was by now, everyone would have water cooling on their desktop because of it's wonderful efficiency? I tried googling but couldn't find it.

Anyway, this tech has a ton of flaws and a serious "need for power" issue that isn't likely to get solved in the next few years, maybe even a decade or two. It's great science but not so great practical engineering. It would be easier to apply water directly to the die than it would to get this thing going in every pc out there.

And then there is the $ to return value. Can you imagine the amount of $ to turn this into a practical reality and actually purchase one for your pc, vs the margin that is typically on pc cooling products? Look at how hard it is to get folks to spend a few hundred on water cooling, even when it's practically plug and play and then look at this technology and just give a guess as to how long it would take, if it ever could, be in a pc near you.

[STEvil]

well one can ponder if the change in magnetic field caused by it is sufficient to cause an electromagnetic pulse powerful enough to crash/generate errors during system bootup

Heatsink and IHS will shield the CPU from EMI given how flat the bases of heatsinks are usually (no points for charge to accumulate on).

The traces in the motherboard PCB could soak a lot up though leading to data degradation.. I think there's a couple threads kicking around about this as well where people were grounding their heatsinks to the case to help protect from EMI.

[dinos22]

like this?
http://www.inventgeek.com/Projects/IonCooler2/Overview.aspx
http://www.inventgeek.com/Projects/IonCooler/Overview.aspx
:rolleyes:

wow very cool :D

[NaeKuh]

Stick an Ionic Breeze infront of your computer and you're all set.

done that... wasnt that greatly effective.

Infact it made more dust collect on the ionic breeze that it started making crackling noises after 2-3 days. And cleaning the collection grid every other day is something i didnt feel like doing.

[Fraggle]

We don`t know - try a physicist.

edit: Wikipedia is useless for real information. Seriously.