Cascade 5 (2 Stage GPU)

[bazx]

cascade 5 GPU


First stage

compressor: LG NJ362 R-407C i will also testing a PG130XIT-4CRE 8000btu for future use on this stage
Hx: 12 plate
Danfoss tev: Tes2 00 orifice
Receiver: RLV 02 PED 77*220 V=0,88l
Condenser: 1,10kW
in line filter 1/4 flare
High pressure gauge
water cooled DSH

The copper pipe sizes used in this stage are

1/4 inch used on the expansion valve suction sensor to the suction return
5/16 compressor to the condenser and receiver
3/8 used on the run from the receiver to the expansion valve and HX suction return
1/2 used on the expansion valve to HX

Fittings

1x 5/16 straight
1x 5/16 tee
2x 3/8 tee
1x 3/8 elbow
1x 1/2 elbow

2x 3/8 flare nut
1x 1/4 flare nut
1x sevice port

second stage

compressor: PG130XIT-4CRE 8000btu
Oil separator: temprite 900
danfoss high pressure cut off KP 5
cold ice mini condenser
cold ice pressure relief valve 24 bar
High pressure gauge
spun drier/filter
Chilly type evap with one extra turn
1m braided suction return

refrigerant: R507/R23 for tests with PG130XIT-4CRE 8000btu on 1st stage

then R507/R1150 when the LG NJ282P R goes in


the unit will also have shut off hand valves located on the suction return and cap tube for easy change of evaporators and setups

there will be no case for this unit

the other units

cascade 1 http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=143340

cascade 2 http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=105549

cascade 3 http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=117279

cascade 4 http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=126920

[bazx]

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/layout/safety.jpg

[bazx]

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/layout/DSC00591.jpg

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/layout/DSC00586.jpg

[bazx]

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/layout/DSC00588.jpg

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/layout/DSC00593.jpg

[bazx]

getting ready to braze up the expansion valve

tes2 raped in damp cloth

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/layout/DSC00571.jpg


if you look at the tes2 from here you can see where the orifice is fitted into the opening

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/layout/DSC00575.jpg

[Clemmaster]

As always, a very nice unit is going to run ;)

[Solarfall]

looks really cool.. what sort of cooling power are we talking about here ??

[bazx]

looks really cool.. what sort of cooling power are we talking about here ??


when finished should pull around -100c loaded on a gtx


these are the hand valves i will be using 1/4 for the cap tube and a 3/8 for the suction return

i have my dough ts that the 3/8 will give enough flow for the suction return and if it fails to work well will be changed out for some thing better

maybe the shut off valve assembly you find on air conditioners condenser units

both valves will be mounted in a insulated box similar to the HX box

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/layout/DSC00596.jpg

[[XC] gomeler]

Very nicely done Bazx, looks like it's going to be a fun unit to bench on, especially for an 8800GTX. Always loved your avatar also, something in it makes me smile :p:

[n00b 0f l337]

Very nice work, always innovative and with the best parts :)

[gosmeyer]

Quality has become common place with your builds. Would expect nothing less.
-100c loaded would be killer.

[LittleDevil]

Really nice cascade my friend. :up:

Regards

[before]

Looks very good buddy! :)

[bazx]

Nice Baz :)

The 3/8" ball valve in the suction shouldn't have any effect when open if it's like the ones i've got, the only thing i'd be worried about is the temperature. Does the top part seal to the bottom by a flare or by a rubberised ring of some kind internally?

Tom


thats what i am hoping tom, i could always go up a size to 1/2 if it is a problem

alto i have called this a gpu cascade it will have other jobs as well

i am making it so i can just remove the evap and suction return with out having to re gas the unit

this is so i can change the function of the unit at will

i.e.: evap for single card benching all complete with suction return and insulation, a second set of evaps for sli and a third set of evaps for system benching for the ram and Northbridge

this will give me what i have wanted for some time and save me a packet on ln2 with any luck

[bazx]

this is the oil sep i have been using in the last few cascades

its an automatic float type and very easy to use just fill with oil
and braze in

larger image

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/layout/last/DSC00604.JPG

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/layout/last/sep.jpg

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/layout/last/DSC00602.jpg

[bazx]

also got some of the electrics mounted today along with most all the other
components

just have to run the pipe work now

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/layout/last/DSC00605.jpg

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/layout/last/DSC00606.jpg

[n00b 0f l337]

Great work!

[[XC] gomeler]

So clean, makes me sad when I look at my builds :(

[Pete]

Baz can you chnage that right hand compresser round so it's the same way as the one on the left ie both facing each other...i think it'd look nicer

[Gautam]

baz showin' em how it's done as usual. :D :clap:

[bazx]

thanks guys

i do like building cascades and it is getting much easier with each build:)

pete you sure are hard to please:D

gomeler your work is fine and you have already done an auto cascade which i have not:)

[[XC] gomeler]

Psh don't play it off bazx, my autocascade barely ran and I probably would have had better temps if I just vented CO2 over the IHS ;) I like the symmetry of the compressors, remind me of little toysoldiers with a rocket-laucher on it's soldier.. don't ask me how I see this, must be all the fumes in the garage.

[Pete]

i do like building cascades and it is getting much easier with each build:)

pete you sure are hard to please:D

You make it look like a toy when THEY ARE NOT (just incase Wiz come over here!!!) You get them done so fast!

Love to have you build me one!

Umm an ex once said that, i am and am not. I just though it'd look good on looks but i guess its like that for pipe routing etc which is fine!

[bazx]

I like the symmetry of the compressors

this is normally a key feature of any of my builds i like balance

as i need to be able to see what i am trying to do when i look at a build
and understand it myself

infact it helps me alot to post the the work here in order so i can see what to do next if ya get what i am sayin

[Barnsley-Bill]

bazx it looks brilliant mate realy clean pro job once again :).

[kayl]

This is going to be a very interesting project for sure.
I don’t think anyone has ever done a unit where they can easly remove evap heads without effecting the charge and quickly install other suction lines.
Very interested to see the Ram and Nb line. Is r23 cheaper than 1150 over there. I cant get a hold of r23 here in aus.
No case for this unit, so I take its going to be your own personal cascade. You must have a few cascades now We should see some nice results of hwbot after this beast is finished

[Pete]

this is normally a key feature of any of my builds i like balance

as i need to be able to see what i am trying to do when i look at a build
and understand it myself

infact it helps me alot to post the the work here in order so i can see what to do next if ya get what i am sayin

I totaly agree with you there on that Baz

[dinos22]

the unit will also have shut off hand valves located on the suction return and cap tube for easy change of evaporators and setups



say what :shocked:

cooooooool :cool:

[bazx]

This is going to be a very interesting project for sure.
I don’t think anyone has ever done a unit where they can easly remove evap heads without effecting the charge and quickly install other suction lines.
Very interested to see the Ram and Nb line. Is r23 cheaper than 1150 over there. I cant get a hold of r23 here in aus.
No case for this unit, so I take its going to be your own personal cascade. You must have a few cascades now We should see some nice results of hwbot after this beast is finished

it will prob take a few goes to get the best way/mech to get the all the refrigerant out of the evap for removal but i think it can be done

i like r23

it is a very good cascade gas , condenses real easy

[bazx]

just finished up the pipe work for the 1st stage

still need to braze it in

need to clean up my work area first can't think straight anymore

i have made a layout change and swapped the oil sep position for the DSH

this after some thought will give me easier runs when piping the 2nd stage

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/stage1/DSC00612.jpg

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/stage1/DSC00614.jpg

[bazx]

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/stage1/DSC00616.jpg

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/stage1/DSC00619.jpg

[bazx]

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/stage1/DSC00620.jpg

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/stage1/DSC00624.jpg

[bazx]

the copper pipe sizes used in this stage are

1/4 inch used on the expansion valve suction sensor to the suction return
5/16 compressor to the condenser and receiver
3/8 used on the run from the receiver to the expansion valve and HX suction return
1/2 used on the expansion valve to HX

fittings

1x 5/16 straight
1x 5/16 tee
2x 3/8 tee
1x 3/8 elbow
1x 1/2 elbow

2x 3/8 flare nut
1x 1/4 flare nut
1x sevice port


http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/stage1/DSC00628.jpg

[before]

So precise, so clean... :cool: I need to learn from you!

[gosmeyer]

Very rewarding to see such pride taken in ones craftsmanship!

[tim-]

really great work! the pipe work is a wet dream! glad to see someone who is planning their work before action.. just curious, why do you use flare connected filterdrier instead of brazed ones?

but where is the safety device? I hope you will install some one second stage.

regards
Tim

[bazx]

thanks lads

but where is the safety device? I hope you will install some one second stage.

@ tim what safety device would you install on a 1st stage of a cascade?

also have you read the 1st and 2nd posts of this thread?

[n00b 0f l337]

Beautiful!
Theres not a huge need for safety devices on first stage, on second you need them in case the first fails.
Amazing work tho Bazx, awe inspiring as always. I probably need to get a new pair of pants on after seeing that. On one note though, make sure all your flares are perfect and then some, Runmc had problems a long time ago with having the gauges connected straight to the system due to vibration and I guess shipping, which we've solved by putting cap tube between the gauge and the high or low side. Other then that, I do indeed new pants.

[bazx]

Beautiful!
Theres not a huge need for safety devices on first stage, on second you need them in case the first fails.
Amazing work tho Bazx, awe inspiring as always. I probably need to get a new pair of pants on after seeing that. On one note though, make sure all your flares are perfect and then some, Runmc had problems a long time ago with having the gauges connected straight to the system due to vibration and I guess shipping, which we've solved by putting cap tube between the gauge and the high or low side. Other then that, I do indeed new pants.


i usually do use cap to join in the gauge and you are correct it would be best

hopefully there will be no hard knocks when i move it to the bench table

[Clemmaster]

Very nice pipe work :)

Just the suction schrader valve seems to be near from the suction line and it can freeze and leak :/

[tim-]

bazx:
yes I have read the first two posts.. in the rush things happend.. sorry my mistake.

as I said before, a excellent work but I would refrain from the flare connections as we are aware of how difficult it is to make them 100% sealed.

regards
Tim

[the_new_guy]

amazing stuff

[Clemmaster]

THat's not the first time he uses flare connections, I think we can trust him about them :)

[[XC] gomeler]

That's one beautiful rollercoaster of pipes :) I need to get myself some more rounded objects to bend beautiful curves like you do or I need a legit pipe bender.

[tim-]

gomeler:
buy a bending tool, a cheap one cost like 20euro and work surprisingly
good.

regards
Tim

[bazx]

Very nice pipe work :)

Just the suction schrader valve seems to be near from the suction line and it can freeze and leak :/


good point

i will make a change thank:)

[bazx]

bazx:
yes I have read the first two posts.. in the rush things happend.. sorry my mistake.

as I said before, a excellent work but I would refrain from the flare connections as we are aware of how difficult it is to make them 100% sealed.

regards
Tim

np


you should not fear flare connection if made correctly they are fine

its worth remembering that most commercial air conditioning units use flares

and also desirable for the experimental units i build as the parts are easy to recycle and use again which has saved me money

[bazx]

gomeler;2336133']That's one beautiful rollercoaster of pipes :) I need to get myself some more rounded objects to bend beautiful curves like you do or I need a legit pipe bender.


its worth the extra few bucks to get a bender

[DEVIL K-ce]

So precise, so clean... :cool: I need to learn from you!

Yea - impress, superb, clean ...


Nice work.

I'm stay to see load temps :)


Martin

[.p4nzer]

If perfection doesn't exist, you have found something very similar :D

This work is awesome!

I can't wait for results

[Dualist]

just finished up the pipe work for the 1st stage

http://www.net7.info/1/cascade5/stage1/DSC00612.jpg

http://www.net7.info/1/cascade5/stage1/DSC00614.jpg

And on the 8th day God did finish the first stage pipe work on his cascade. :up:
Beautifull work there bazx :slobber: :slobber: :slobber:

[loc.o]

Craftmanship :up: A true piece of art.

[Supertim0r]

really impressed ! :up:

[Marvin]

perfect piping work.
very nice looking cascade.:D ;)

[wdrzal]

You guys that are "piping challenged" should print out a color picture and frame it and hang it in your work shop.

I know you guys are out there ;) ,I seen pictures :yepp: !!!!!

[n00b 0f l337]

Also Bazx, I'm not sure your case size but you don't think you'll have a problem with the tall discharge loops? (I'd use a U or a 90 personally)

[gosmeyer]

Also Bazx, I'm not sure your case size but you don't think you'll have a problem with the tall discharge loops? (I'd use a U or a 90 personally)

Just a wild guess but I'll say NO

[bazx]

Also Bazx, I'm not sure your case size but you don't think you'll have a problem with the tall discharge loops? (I'd use a U or a 90 personally)

this unit wont be getting a case as i will be trying differant setup and compressors

so it would just get in the way

[Freddie123]

:o just realised you're a UK man! You anywhere near Leicester?

[Duh]

wow.. reminds me of the tidiness of coldice..

very very nice :toast:

[bazx]

wow.. reminds me of the tidiness of coldice..

very very nice :toast:


i used much of cold ice work as i have been learning about cascades

his work has always inspired me


Freddie no where near, gatwick

[Freddie123]

Damn you :P

[wdrzal]

Also Bazx, I'm not sure your case size but you don't think you'll have a problem with the tall discharge loops? (I'd use a U or a 90 personally)

You give 12 people the same parts and you'll see 12 different piping arrangements even if the compressors and condenser are all bolted the same.

The point is that it was thought out and piped neatly.:up:

why would there be a problem with tall loops??? It's just superheated gas. unless you are thinking case ?

Just in general nothing to do with the cascade,I never trust a camera's perspective,unless I see the same from different angles.

[Pete]

Clearly Baz you've spent Sunday tinkering with this as to being in bed with the misis. Fair play, love and admire your work loads. HX box is so simple but really eye catching

[Shagg]

what size compressors are you using for the dual stage? sorry if a stupid question I'm a phase change noob :D

[bazx]

what size compressors are you using for the dual stage? sorry if a stupid question I'm a phase change noob :D

hi compressors are in the first post

[bazx]

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/stage1/brazed/DSC00636.jpg

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/stage1/brazed/DSC00639.jpg

[bazx]

vacuumed and gas the first stage

charged with 507 not looking for temps at this point as there is no point
until i get a load on it

got the box made for the valve assembly today need to finish it up and mount it

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/stage1/gased/DSC00640.jpg

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/stage1/gased/DSC00641.jpg

[Fhqwhgads6680]

It's looking beautiful Baz! keep it up man!

[[XC] gomeler]

Looks great, I feel inspired to make a clean cascade now :)

[n00b 0f l337]

Used flux and 45% silver everywhere? Damn nice n shiney!

[gosmeyer]

Looks like Scotch-Brite

[Pete]

Nope he just really knows how to build and braze!

[expansionvalve]

She looks very smart indeed. :)

[gosmeyer]

Nope he just really knows how to build and braze!
Yes he can braze and build. But that doesn't polish the tubing

[Pete]

Yes he can braze and build. But that doesn't polish the tubing

OMG can't belive you of all people just said, LMFAO. I use to be a frame builder so i know the low down on brazing.

I do agree scotchbright has been used which is not a problem at all. It's a cleaning aid after all!

Be cool if the unit could run raw! See the naked tubes then

[LittleDevil]

Really nice unit my friend and really clean brazing :up:

Regards

[piotres]

Haven't You Guys thought, that 1.1 kW condensor will be too small to cope with load from rotary + load from 2 heavy-loaded evaps ? :rolleyes:

I'm little worried that can be too weak :rolleyes: .

Regards
Peter

[gosmeyer]

I use to be a frame builder so i know the low down on brazing.


I know that Pete.:D It just shows me the attention to detail that's used. You would agree then that there is a big difference between prepping the joint and prepping the entire run.

[n00b 0f l337]

Its dual evap? I didnt see that anywhere...
Plus with proper second stage desuperheating it will be dealing with much less load.

[bazx]

Haven't You Guys thought, that 1.1 kW condensor will be too small to cope with load from rotary + load from 2 heavy-loaded evaps ? :rolleyes:

I'm little worried that can be too weak :rolleyes: .

Regards
Peter

hi piotres you may be correct and i will now be fitting a bigger compressor to the first stage as well

Btu/hr : 21800/22000 LG NP642P

But remember this unit is for experiments in cascade build and will have many different setup

When this comp goes in I will be trying out a water cooled DSH coil as well
Just to see how well it performs

[Xeon th MG Pony]

Care full now bazx! You will become addicted to the water cooling of phase systems! It is just as good and addictive as water cooling the PC ;) !

[Pete]

I know that Pete.:D It just shows me the attention to detail that's used. You would agree then that there is a big difference between prepping the joint and prepping the entire run.

Yeah i do agree, but Bazx has OCD on and build he does for it being 100% perfect! I can't fault him!

When this comp goes in I will be trying out a water cooled DSH coil as well. Just to see how well it performs

WC'd DSHC . . .how that work i aint seen nor heard it before!

[gosmeyer]

Yeah i do agree, but Bazx has OCD on and build he does for it being 100% perfect! I can't fault him!

I know the feeling:up:

[bazx]

Pete: WC'd DSHC . . .how that work i aint seen nor heard it before!


its just like a coiled HX only instead of using a compressor to cool the HX
i will use a water loop

it will go just after the compressor but before the condenser on the 1st stage


the idea is to remove some of the heat before it gets to the condenser

just like a regular DSH only i hope to be able to remove a little more heat

if it works i intend to try doing away with the condenser altogether and use a plate hx on the first stage

but we will see

[[XC] gomeler]

Interesting concept but I suspect it'd be bulky as you'd have to essentially add another loop into the system. The thought of adding another point of failure to a cascade doesn't sound pleasant either.

[Pete]

its just like a coiled HX only instead of using a compressor to cool the HX
i will use a water loop

it will go just after the compressor but before the condenser on the 1st stage


the idea is to remove some of the heat before it gets to the condenser

just like a regular DSH only i hope to be able to remove a little more heat

if it works i intend to try doing away with the condenser altogether and use a plate hx on the first stage

but we will see

So will that be a like a COIL IN A COIL HX but a CC DSH? Water passing on the outer coil with the DSH directly in the center?

What rad and pump?

Thermochill PA120.3 x 2, DDC ? I got a few bit of WC kit if you haven't any there at present! Only known you to have phase of varying styles and what Thicky has shown me too

[Xeon th MG Pony]

gomeler;2344353']Interesting concept but I suspect it'd be bulky as you'd have to essentially add another loop into the system. The thought of adding another point of failure to a cascade doesn't sound pleasant either.

this is verry verry old technology concept, It is all so called heat reclaim, machanical subcooler and so on, slight differance between some but all the same idea

[bazx]

it may be old tec but i am finding myself drawn toward it :D

and i will not be happy unless i have run a few tests

here are 2x of the suction lines i have had made up for this cascade

same line i used in my other units 1m long with 50mm of 10mm dia each end

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/suction/DSC00653.jpg

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/suction/DSC00647.jpg

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/suction/DSC00655.jpg

[bazx]

So will that be a like a COIL IN A COIL HX but a CC DSH? Water passing on the outer coil with the DSH directly in the center?

What rad and pump?

Thermochill PA120.3 x 2, DDC ? I got a few bit of WC kit if you haven't any there at present! Only known you to have phase of varying styles and what Thicky has shown me too


yes coil in coil

i already have the parts for the water loop nothing special but will do for this
experiment

[Xeon th MG Pony]

it may be old tec but i am finding myself drawn toward it :D

and i will not be happy unless i have run a few tests


Don't take that the wrong way, it was meant for others, it is very good system, like I said be care full, other wise you'll find your self addicted!

Ever since working on my first water cooled plant I fell in love with the system!

I plan to make an all water cooled cascade my self in the remote future! :)

[bazx]

Don't take that the wrong way, it was meant for others, it is very good system, like I said be care full, other wise you'll find your self addicted!

Ever since working on my first water cooled plant I fell in love with the system!

I plan to make an all water cooled cascade my self in the remote future! :)


hehe i did not take it the wrong way i also read your earlier post:)

and you are right i have already found many places and way to add water cooling

and it may well turn into an addiction

[Pete]

Ooo build a water chilled as well, cool it more!

[bazx]

the evap i am using for the single gpu setup will be a chilly type from cold ice but with an extra turn on its length

the suction return will be fitted at 90 degrees to the evap

the hole con fig will be the same as the that used in previous cascades

with 3x holes drilled at the base into the suction return

thread here


http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=144033


more images here

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade3/build/evap/

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade3/build/evap/DSC00276.jpg

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade3/build/evap/DSC00282.jpg

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade3/build/evap/DSC00290.jpg

[Pete]

You like that evap and mod a lot don;t ya!

[piotres]

That pipes are too shiny :eek: :eek: . That's just overkill :D :D .

Congrats :clap: .

[PPInDaHouse]

amazing work bazx! very clean

[bazx]

got the valve assembly mounted today


http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/valveassembly/DSC00657.jpg

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/valveassembly/DSC00659.jpg

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/valveassembly/DSC00661.jpg

[bazx]

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/valveassembly/DSC00662.jpg

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/valveassembly/DSC00671.jpg

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/valveassembly/DSC00672.jpg

[bazx]

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/valveassembly/DSC00667.jpg

[noobzed]

wooh this is an incredible clean build, no doubt perfomance will be as high as the unit is clean, the most sharp builder around here bazx.

[[XC] gomeler]

Those boxes are just painted fiberboard right?

[Pete]

gomeler;2346636']Those boxes are just painted fiberboard right?

Insualted and then with some PVC pipe for the copper and insualtion to pass over and in

[bazx]

Insualted and then with some PVC pipe for the copper and insualtion to pass over and in

yep thats it

the board used is MDF

glued and nailed and painted

[bazx]

I se now after some looking that the filter is mounted the wrong way! should never be mounted that way!
filters is ment to be horisontal or with stream down true the drier/filter, not upwards.. that have several reasons, first is to make sure only liquid refrigrant is passing true drier/filter. The drier doesn't work proper with gas and the mud from brazing etc doesn't stay in the filter as it ment to be when the filter is mounted with stream upwards.

this is easy to fail on, nothing unusual.

Just a my 2 cents.. otherwise, really nice build


tim i see you make a habit of not doing your research this is the second time you have posted here in this thread and made a statement without knowing fully what you are taking about


filter is mounted the wrong way! should never be mounted that way!

i also see from you profile that you are studying to become a " Master of Engineering"

a good Engineer would only make a public statement like this if they were 100% sure of what they were saying

below is taken from the sporlan website

Catch-All Filter-Driers may be installed in any position, with top or
bottom feed


However, it is advisable to mount replaceable core
models horizontally so that foreign material cannot drop into the

the filter-drier i have fitted is not a "replaceable core" and even if it were
it is only advisable that i mount it horizontally

baz

[Xeon th MG Pony]

Tim, this is a thermal static system, as such, placement is irrelevant as there will be a solid liquid coulomb to the valve no matter what as assured via the receiver.

If this where a cap tube system you'd have a snow balls chance in hell of having a leg to stand on, even then a correctly built system at running temp it is still irrelevant as to the F/Ds placement!

[SexyMF]

Very nice work. It looks like a sled :)

[bazx]

Very nice work. It looks like a sled :)

lol you spotted the wooden runners then:)

i could never get my hands underneath so i jacked it up a bit

[G H Z]

Beautiful, hard to top this build :clap:

[n00b 0f l337]

Again very very nice, I particulary like your little mounts and stuff for holding stuff up. You make them urself?

[kayl]

shes coming alive, cant waits to see her frost bazx ;)
i specially like the flex suction lines, very clean :clap:

[Duh]

will you be able to close the whole unit? as I see the fiber board boxes coming a bit out of the metal sheet under..

lovely unit!!!

[Pete]

He said the unit is not going in case as he will be using to test a lot of kit

READ THE TOPICS PLEASE....ALL!!!!!!!

[Duh]

He said the unit is not going in case as he will be using to test a lot of kit

READ THE TOPICS PLEASE....ALL!!!!!!!

sorry dude, I spotted that part.. no need to answer like that.. same thing can be said in a better way and achieve the same objective :)

[bazx]

as talked about earlier i will be trying out some water cooling on the first stage DSH coil

here is the cooler i will be trying out its a coolmaster all in one unit i used for cpu 2 years ago

i have made up a stand for it so it will sit above the cascade

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/water/IMGP0051.jpg

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/water/IMGP0047.jpg

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/water/IMGP0050.jpg

[bazx]

and here is the new 1st stage compressor LG NJ362

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/water/IMGP0049.jpg

[Fhqwhgads6680]

hey baz wouldn't you be worried about the water condensing some of the refrigerant before it hits the codenser? I guess that wouldn't be a problem as long as the desup is aboce the condenser so any liquid would fall down towards the condenser hey. Nice updates!

[Jack]

Looking better every day! :up:

[bazx]

hi tom thanks for the input

in this case the DSH is for the 1st stage as i have increased the compressor size quite a bit and i was unsure if the condencer i am using will be enough

also i am experimenting with water cooling in phase units of late and interested to see how it fairs

[Pete]

I just got my fag packet out and OMG thats huge! I like it alot Baz!!

Oh and when i saw the rear end of that WC unit i was hang on a WC'd PSU, not Baz! LAMAO

Can't wait to see this dude. Sorta a benching/test/sample/idea creation cascade. How manny elements can be entered all in one case.

Yes i am thinking dark and deep today heheh

[bazx]

just finished up fitting the new compressor and water cooled coiled DSH

its made from 5/16 copper in 1/2 copper pulled around a cylinder of R23

still have to make up a mount for the DSH

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/water/DSH/DSC00724.jpg

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/water/DSH/DSC00726.jpg


as you can see from the pic the new compressor is very large:)

[runmc]

Very nice buddy :yepp: - coaxial condenser for first stage desuperheater. :up: I hope the water cooler works well or you can boil hotdogs with that compressor :ROTF:

Your builds compare to Cold_Ice in perfection.:D

[bazx]

Very nice buddy :yepp: - coaxial condenser for first stage desuperheater. :up: I hope the water cooler works well or you can boil hotdogs with that compressor :ROTF:

Your builds compare to Cold_Ice in perfection.:D


hehe hot dogs would be nice in the winter:D


if this unit is to small i will fix a pond pump the rain trap outside the shed

its a 50 gallon that should do it lol

[n00b 0f l337]

Very very very beautiful work bazx, nice paint job, as well as great plumbing. The higher content silver braze looks great everywhere as well.

[n00b 0f l337]

5/16 in 1/2? Yeah that is perfect, 3/8" is too tight and 1/4" is a bit loose but works. I do like 3/16" in 3/8" as well.

[Xeon th MG Pony]

Very nice indeed, looks like a store bought one!

[n00b 0f l337]

Beauty of zip ties and paint ;)

[bazx]

surprising what a drop of paint can do

i will be painting all the exposed copper on this unit once complete

as its shine soon fades

here is the parts used for brazing

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/brazing/

after brazing i clean up the joint with fine grit paper and use some wire wool

[n00b 0f l337]

Very nice, shame on the cover up

[[XC] gomeler]

I've been debating about painting the copper on my units also, I really hate the look of the tarnished copper after a few months :( Maybe a clear lacquer? Need to research melting temps and such.

[Praz]

Your attention to detail is something that is increasingly missing in most any type of work in today's world. It defines the word craftsmanship. Thanks for sharing.

[bazx]

Your attention to detail is something that is increasingly missing in most any type of work in today's world. It defines the word craftsmanship. Thanks for sharing.

thanks for the kind words but for me i am just having fun and its not hard to take my time when its a hobby


just been running some tests with the water cooled DSH and i must say i am very surprised i ran the unit for 1 hour and

35c knocked off the temps from compressor to condenser

sorry about all the temp probs all over the images i was having a look at superheat as well

the white prob line is T1 going in the DSH and the yellow is T2 comming out

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/water/DSH/DSC00731.jpg

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/water/DSH/DSC00741.jpg

[Xeon th MG Pony]

Braz, you should use flux only when strictly needed as it is considered a contaminant in the system, a rather nasty one too! Or at least use it very sparingly.

[Polizei]

Impressive with the desuperheater! I didnt think it drop temps that much.

EDIT: Now that I think about it... could the water just be cooling the copper and not the gas so much? Im sure the pipe running from the compressor to the desuperheater is quite warm, and the water is just making that cooler. Not sure though.

[Xeon th MG Pony]

True, he should move the discharge probe closer to the Hx to get a better compensated reading, to know how much it is truely cooling he'd need the probes in the gas stream.

[bazx]

decided to test an slhx for the water cooling loop

its 5/8 with 3/8 running thro the middle

just been water testing it for leaks

will hook it up saturday and see how it works

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/slhx/web/DSC00743.jpg


http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/slhx/web/DSC00745.jpg

[[XC] gomeler]

Looks good, love your craftsmanship.

[tim-]

you have som interesting ideas bazx :)

we don't see much watercooling in phase change here.. glad to see someone introduce it :)

[Clemmaster]

If I understand you want to use some of liquid refrigerant to cool the water loop that itself subcools the HP line?

That's even worth than an SLHX (useless, once again) :D

[Freddie123]

No, I think the liquid is still cooling the refrigerant.

[Polizei]

How would the liquid cool the return gas in the suction line? The gas is colder than the liquid.

I think hes using the SLHX to cool the water even further for the desuperheater coil.

[Clemmaster]

That's exactly what I've said, and once again a classic SLHX is useless, a water loop even more (if that's what we think)

[tim-]

slhx isn't useless.. everything depends on what kind of unit and load you're aiming for.

it's pretty common on bigger r404/r507 units. But i would be carefull using a slhx as it raises the superheat. A high compression ratio and a big superheat can 'cause some issues with the oil and in worth case a broken compressor.. But i expect everyone who is playing with slhx have an eye on temptures, superheat etc..

slhx can gain or reduce the capacity of a unit depending on what unit and how it's used.. it's important to remember that the enthalpy isn't same for gas as liquid..

normally if you have a big compressor you can gain a little by putting a slhx.. which we also have seen on some SS builds with oversized rotaries. Everything depends on what it's used on and how it's used. this isn't a easy game.

regards
Tim

[Xeon th MG Pony]

SGHX Is essentualy an unloaderof sorts. For this aplication I think it is a poor choice as you need the capacity at the head not unloaded to sub cooling as the liquid line runs are not so long as to need it.

[kayl]

nice work bazx, ya taking overclocking to the next level here hey ;)

[n00b 0f l337]

Lookin good, love the high silver and flux still, and proper reducer usage and stuff (though I prefer to swag everything myself).

[gosmeyer]

Kinda tough to swag .625 to .375 :D

[n00b 0f l337]

There are tools to crimp down I beleive as well :)
Also, you can swag 1/2 to 5/8 and 1/2 will fit over 3/8" perfectly like a sleeve ;)

[Clemmaster]

slhx isn't useless.. everything depends on what kind of unit and load you're aiming for.

it's pretty common on bigger r404/r507 units. But i would be carefull using a slhx as it raises the superheat. A high compression ratio and a big superheat can 'cause some issues with the oil and in worth case a broken compressor.. But i expect everyone who is playing with slhx have an eye on temptures, superheat etc..

slhx can gain or reduce the capacity of a unit depending on what unit and how it's used.. it's important to remember that the enthalpy isn't same for gas as liquid..

normally if you have a big compressor you can gain a little by putting a slhx.. which we also have seen on some SS builds with oversized rotaries. Everything depends on what it's used on and how it's used. this isn't a easy game.

regards
Tim

On cascade it is, yon loose some capacity for nothing... Once again remember the cascade that used one and couldn't get any lower than -33° on HX, without it it went down to -45...

[Felipe]

good it devises the one of the cooler liquid

[Nosfer@tu]

The clenlyness is amazing.
Love the work done

[bazx]

after trying the slhx i removed it

it failed to give me the results i was looking for so

i moved on to the large water barrel:D

and a pond pump

more images here

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/water/waterbarrel/watercooling/

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/water/waterbarrel/watercooling/DSC00781.jpg

[bazx]

the pump is the same unit people use in there garden

the idea here is to take the cooler water from the bottom of the tank
and return the warmer water from the dsh to the top of the tank
and as the water cools it drops to the bottom


http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/water/waterbarrel/watercooling/DSC00783.jpg

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/water/waterbarrel/watercooling/DSC00780.jpg

[bazx]

this has worked so well i am going to stick with this for a while

in this image you can see the loaded temps/pressure of the first stage

13bar / -50

this is by far the strongest first stage i have ever built and to say i am happy with it
would be an understatement

(the load is coming from a X6800@4900mhz/1.8vcore 32m run (more of this later))


http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/water/waterbarrel/watercooling/DSC00795.jpg

[gosmeyer]

this has worked so well i am going to stick with this for a while

Glad you found what you were looking for:up:
What did the wife say about the hole in the wall :) or has she seen it yet?

[Freddie123]

Looks like its only a shed, he should be ok :P

[bazx]

hehe yes it my shed


http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/stage2/DSC00761.jpg

i was unhappy with the vapo type dsh on the second stage so hooked two fans up
to a larger unit

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/stage2/DSC00770.jpg

[bazx]

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/stage2/DSC00759.jpg

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/stage2/DSC00766.jpg

[bazx]

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/stage2/DSC00774.jpg

[bazx]

before i went ahead and made up the gpu line set i wanted to load test
the evap

evap used in this load test is one of little devils chilly clones

o/s is just my desktop vista

the cpu is a X6800 @ 4900mhz

m/b asus commando

vcore is 1.8v vmod and droop tested with meter

load is super Pi 32m

T1 is temp taken with the temp prob taped to the outside of the evap

T2 is temp taken with the temp prob taped to the suction return about 10 mm away from the evap

full size image


http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/loadtesting/fullsize/DSC00815.JPG

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/loadtesting/DSC00815.jpg

[krullet]

really nice temps bazx..

dam this build is a work of art, it soo nice, as are all of your projects

[Dualist]

How come you're not running two instances of super pi to fully load the chip.?

[Clemmaster]

32mo doesn't load the chip like TAT or Prime do anyway.

What where the results with SLHX to make people be aware about their unefficiency on cascaded systems? (:P). Your first stage is powerfull with this subcooler (I think it's more a condenser according to the size of the "air-condenser" and the discharge pressure, but anyway).

You should try LBP compressor (CAJ2464Z, for example) to make this wonder unit work as good as it looks nice :)

[bazx]

thanks krullet



How come you're not running two instances of super pi to fully load the chip.?


in this case 32m is just a tool for me to compare this unit to others i have built
and have found that just running a 32m @ 1.8v will give more then enough load
and most importantly for me a variable load
Also as i build these units for benching
I know that if the unit can pass a 32m
At the set mhz/voltage it will also be able to get thro a 3D06 cpu test



you should try it with your 2 stage

@Clemmaster there was no improvement with slhx it was just the same as without

so no gain and i removed it

with what i have learned so far i now want to completely water cool the first stage

[Thickbrit]

Pushing the boundaries of accepted phase knowledge in his ceaseless quest for freezing perfection,my mate Bazx.Rock on matey.

[runmc]

You are to be admired bazx :up: Let's get this back to the top where it belongs

[n00b 0f l337]

No doubt Ron!
After reading thru some old threads as well as some other hvac information, I see some watercooled HX's mentioned, but I'm suprised we never really adapted to this, maybe because it is a little bit of a hassle, but the gains seem quite great! Especially on autocascades where you really want all possible refrigerant that can be condensed, condensed, and saturating as much higher pressure refrigerants as possible!
Only thing is copper prices are higher and such, so I'm thinking about trying this with some plate heat exchangers.

[bazx]

thanks lads

i need to put up some more images of the unit as it is now finished and installed on my benching table

i have gained a great deal from this build and i have a feeling it will become a 3 stage next year

the shut off hand valves have work like a charm as well

i just close the liquid line with the unit running wait 1 min and close the suction return

turn off the unit and remove the line set with no charge lost

[Pete]

I love bazx work, it's mind blowing and i can sit and look till the cows come home. It's shear artwork

Bazx winter time that watercooled HX could be fun when we get some sub ambiants and snow!

[bazx]

I love bazx work, it's mind blowing and i can sit and look till the cows come home. It's shear artwork

Bazx winter time that watercooled HX could be fun when we get some sub ambiants and snow!


hehe i have been thinking about that

i will need so anti freez

[Pete]

hehe i have been thinking about that

i will need so anti freez

Just a few gallons of the stuf yeah! Also insulate it all.

Probs be steaming on the return outside.

Not long till it goes chilly. Might sell lower HX temp

[bazx]

Started running some load tests with cascade 5 and a 8800GTX kindly lent by

Raja

Thanks man i owe ya one:D

In the tests i was only looking at load on the unit not bench results

The card was over clocked to 902 core @ 1.55v using riva

The cpu just ticking over @ 4.8

Load is future mark 3D03 which it completed fine

The cascade evap temp (measured 10mm from the evap on the suction return) did not move more then 1 deg during load and sat around -104/103

o/s vista but for the next set I will put xp on


here are 2x 15 sec movie clips

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/working/movie/


some images

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/working/still/

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/1/cascade5/working/still/DSC00847.jpg

[Pete]

Bazx you one lucky guy. Can i be your son or have you babys!

Lovely setup, clock in backgorund is nice!

[Polizei]

I love that bench/works area. Very nice.

Awesome temps :up:

[Thickbrit]

Nice going mate,lets hope you have the other one ready for these 2 ultra's by xmas,lol.

[bazx]

Nice going mate,lets hope you have the other one ready for these 2 ultra's by xmas,lol.

i will need to make up the sli line set just need the right evaps now

who nows what santa will bring this year:D

[gosmeyer]

Once again as always, Very nice.

[[XC] 2long4u]

I like your camera. It captured the fan blades.

[Cpt.Planet]

Bazx another amazing work of art :)

[kayl]

i will need to make up the sli line set just need the right evaps now

who nows what santa will bring this year:D

very nice work bazx :up:
i would use a cpu block theres enough room between the cards with the sli mobos ;)

[4Qman]

Well i havent been around Alot and when Sacha said he went to Baz's and see cascade 5 i must admit i expected it to be somethink as amazing as this.

True quality mate,. best and cleanest home overclocking setup in the world. Well best i seen anyway. :D

[cuprasport]

wow some really nicw work there man

[sacha35]

:) Truly outstanding mate, you have set the bench for all to dream about with this setup, as 4Qman said this must be the best looking setup in the world and i should know i have seen it.:)

:D Well done again mate on a great job, now lets see it in action with some of your benches. :D