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Philly_Boy
07-15-2007, 11:40 AM
I was answering a pm from a forum member and decided to post it for everyone's benefit.

A Guide to TEC cooling Philly Style

OK, so you just decided to take the plunge into sub-ambient cooling by setting up a TEC block. You have all the parts but are unsure of how to exactly go about this. I hope this guide will help assuage some of your fears. This is just an account of my experience. YMMV and it prolly will.:D

First off please read the many nice sticky's regarding insulating your board. If you skip this mega important step you will soon be finding out how slow the rma process is for your mother board as the condensation from the tec will drip onto the board causing it to die a premature death. The the hardware police will come and arrest you for cruel and unusual punishment to your rig!!! J/K:D

I have found the Swiftech MCW6500-T/775 TEC driven CPU block to be far more effective than almost any other TEC block in terms of price vs performance. Many TEC blocks even when properly implemented will get your cpu a bit colder but will not signifcantly increase your overclock. The 6500 was able to get my E6300 all the way down to -11c idle and -4c loaded with stock clocks and vcore. When I cranked the vcore to 1.6 volts and loaded it with a 100% oc to 3.72ghz the idle only rose to +7c and +22c loaded with Orthos/Boinc overnight!

Part of the way I achieved this was to put a PA120.3 rad (with 6x Yate loon D12SL's in push/pull) and 2x DDC+ pumps (with Petra's modded top) in series on just the MCW6500T loop. The performance severely suffered when I tried to use a only one modded DDC+ pump and a GTX240 rad with 4x Panaflo G series fans in push/pull at full tilt. I would not even attempt a TEC block in a rig meant for serious benching (or gaming or crunching for that matter)without at least a BI GTX360, an Swiftech MCR320, or PA 120.3 rad and some sort of modded top on dual DDC+ pumps. I like Petra's tops but there are other's out there by Alphacool and Radical that work ok.

Next up is the psu you use. The Meanwell PSU I bought after some heavy research was the SP320-13.5. This way I can swing the volts the TEC sees +/- 10% or from 12 to 15 volts with about 25a on tap. This psu was more than adequate for the 6500T. I made a pig tail from the Meanwell psu that mated with the pig tail from the 6500 to facilitate easy remounting. I did this with a few spare four pin molex power connectors and some 12 guage wire I had laying around. If you use any type of thinner wire, the wire jacket will melt and pose a fire hazard. Don't ask how I know this... :yepp:

I also need to stress that you cannot have a large enough res for this loop. The hot side of the tec is a HUGE heat dump (like 320-350 watts) into the water mix. The loop containing my Cyclone 120 and PA120.3 holds about 40 ounces of mix. I was getting loaded water temps in upwards of 29c during a 3D MArk 06 CPU run to as much as 38c with a long Orthos or TAT test with room ambients of 23c to 24c. I eventually ran a 15' loop of tubing thru a 25 qt cooler with heavily salinated ice water (salinated water temps were about -10c) between the pump output to the rad for heavy benching sessions. This kept my H2O temps to a more manageable 24-25c.

I would acquire a MCW6500-T775 as well as any of the 3x 120mm rads I mentioned above for just the cpu block. I would also get the biggest capacity res your budget can handle. The EK res 250 is sweet as is the Performance PC Cyclone 120. The rad must have 6x >70 cfm fans in push/pull. The Yate Loon D12SL's are a good choice here. This loop is simple: res>pump 1>pump 2>rad>cpu block>res

For the second loop I would keep the BIX II and get 4x of the same fans (the aforementioned black YL D12SL fans are 71 cfm and quiet as well as dirt cheap) and do push/pull. I would also consider getting a NB block as they get really hot and keeping them cool will greatly stabilize your gpu clocks. The EK wave chipset is pretty nice as is the Swifty MCW30 as is the DD Maze 4 680i chipset block. One DDC+ (as long as it has a modded top - remember I prefer Petra's top) can shoulder the load here as can a smaller res. You can expect temps on the 8800 in the neighborhood of 35c idle and 38c loaded and about 29-30c on the NB.

I would set this loop as follows: res>DDC>rad>MCW60>NB block>res

I have actually "tunnelled out" those Nighthawk ram sinks so one ram sink actually covers 2 banks of vregs. This puts more copper on the job. This lowered the temp of the vregs during heavy benching by about 2c to 28c loaded. This gave me a better overall clock on the 8800's.

Also remove the crappy thermal tape on the MC14's and take the time to lap them with 300/500/800/1000/2000 grit sandpaper. Then clean the mem modules like 5-6 times with Artic 1 and Artic 2. If they are not clean then nothing will stick to them!!! Apply the MC14's to the mem modules/TMPS IC by applying a layer of ceramique to both the memory module as well as the now lapped ram sink. Then apply 2 or 3 very small dots of superglue on the top of the ceramique on the MC14 and hold it in place on the mem module for 15-20 sec. Only use one slightly bigger dot with the TMPS IC. They actually stay on using this method and the net result will be 4-5c cooler memory modules. This gave me +50 mem clock settings.

One last thing. If you have access to a drill press, carefully drill a small hole - 2mm deep by 1.5 mm in diameter - in the side of the cold plate of the tec block. Insert a "K" style probe with artic ashesive and let it cure. This will give you a much better idea of what temps the block is attaining. Do you own a DT200 or something similar?

OK...I don't even know you and I've given you a lot to consider. Take your time and make sure your loop is as overbuilt as your budget will allow. If you do this then you'll achieve a far better clock than straight water would otherwise allow.

Good Luck!!I hope this little "guide" helps.

~Philly~

hecktic
07-16-2007, 02:05 AM
Ohhh you are the master of the TECs now...

please sticky this and post some pictures that would go along with your guide. TY TY TY.

also what about using two modded DDC+ pumps and a GTX240 in push/pull with 8 fans?

Philly_Boy
07-16-2007, 11:06 AM
Ohhh you are the master of the TECs now...

please sticky this and post some pictures that would go along with your guide. TY TY TY.

also what about using two modded DDC+ pumps and a GTX240 in push/pull with 8 fans?
Maybe you've confused me with someone else...I'm not really the "master" at anything....;)
This is just my experience at trying to cool my cpu enough to attain a 100% oc that was stable.:yepp:

I will try to dig up a few pics if I still have them and post them to illustrate a few of the points.

I really wouldn't use a 2 x 120mm rad at all to cool a tec...even the vaunted PA120.2. My PA120.3 could barely tame the water temps once I heavily oc'ed the cpu. I suppose if you weren't shooting for the moon with your oc and building a rig inside a case that only a 2x 120mm rad would fit then the only thing I'd use would be a PA120.2 with 4x fans in push/pull and 2x DDC+ pumps with modded tops in series with a short tube (< 2") between the pumps.

Also, more fans won't get the temps down. You either need to lower the ambient air blowing across the rad or lower the temp of the water circulating thru the loop. I use the former in the winter time with my "Cold Air Induction" LINK (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=134483&highlight=Cold+Air+Induction) and in the warmer months I augment the CAI with the salinated ice water solution because the CAI will only go as low as my central air will blow out (around 15-17c).

hecktic
07-16-2007, 03:52 PM
Well I have near identical setup to yours... well will be. I can already push my e6300 @ 500fsb stable on AIR so the TEC will be a good addition.

I was wondering if you would get better results on the 4 x 120mm radiator, the GTX480 Black ICe.... did I say 420 earlier... err I meant 480 which can accommodate 8 fans in push/pull.

Im looking for a 100&#37; OC as well.... I got a PA 120.3 but I dont think it will perform as good as the GTX480 in the aspect that both radiators will be using high speed Delta Fans over 130cfm

afireinside
07-16-2007, 06:52 PM
3.72... What did it do on straight water?

Duh
07-16-2007, 07:19 PM
very interesting article dude... will print it and read it at bed :)
how about the nova tech 9x120? it was said to cost u$150.. of course If I could i would buy 2x and an iwaki connected to one to the meanwell :)
I think there arent many reviews available :S

hecktic
07-16-2007, 09:34 PM
very interesting article dude... will print it and read it at bed :)
how about the nova tech 9x120? it was said to cost u$150.. of course If I could i would buy 2x and an iwaki connected to one to the meanwell :)
I think there arent many reviews available :S

Im thinking of tring that instead of the GTX 480 in a dedicated CPU only loop.

res>mcp655-b(1)>mcp655-b(2)>nova tech 9x120>mcw6500-t>res

Philly_Boy
07-17-2007, 07:38 AM
3.72... What did it do on straight water?
It did 3.2 on air...3.4 to 3.5 on straight water...and 3.7+ on the TEC. I am going to mess with putting it under LN2 this weekend.....looking for 4.1-4.2ghz! We'll see....

Duh
07-17-2007, 07:10 PM
Im thinking of tring that instead of the GTX 480 in a dedicated CPU only loop.

res>mcp655-b(1)>mcp655-b(2)>nova tech 9x120>mcw6500-t>res

it seems like a very nice project. how about the psu and the fans youll be using?

hecktic
07-17-2007, 07:18 PM
it seems like a very nice project. how about the psu and the fans youll be using?

MeanWell S320 and Im thinking of Delta EFB1212SHE 120x38mm Triple Blade High Speed in push/pull of a total of 8 fans if Im going to use the GTX480 and if not then 6 fans on the PA120.3 in push/pull and if not that rad then the massive 9x120 rad as mentioned above but with 18 fans in push/pull hehe.. Will probably use a big bucket instead of the MCRES swiftech res I have...

Philly_Boy
07-18-2007, 10:37 AM
MeanWell S320 and Im thinking of Delta EFB1212SHE 120x38mm Triple Blade High Speed in push/pull of a total of 8 fans if Im going to use the GTX480 and if not then 6 fans on the PA120.3 in push/pull and if not that rad then the massive 9x120 rad as mentioned above but with 18 fans in push/pull hehe.. Will probably use a big bucket instead of the MCRES swiftech res I have...
Anything beyond the GTX480 might be a bit overkill...

*Imagining that 9 x 120mm rad with custom Weapon shrouds on either sides and eighteen 120 x 38mm Delta's in push pull going full tilt....
...and a box of ear plugs next to the monitor to abate the banshee wail of the fans...*

You gonna have that bucket of water inside another larger bucket full of ice water or dry ice? :up:
You have to help out whatever rad you use by blowing colder air across it or by lowering the water temps externally.

~Philly~

lowfat
07-18-2007, 02:55 PM
What wattage of a TEC is used on that block? A 2X120rad should be fine for a smaller TEC.

hecktic
07-18-2007, 05:57 PM
Anything beyond the GTX480 might be a bit overkill...

*Imagining that 9 x 120mm rad with custom Weapon shrouds on either sides and eighteen 120 x 38mm Delta's in push pull going full tilt....
...and a box of ear plugs next to the monitor to abate the banshee wail of the fans...*

You gonna have that bucket of water inside another larger bucket full of ice water or dry ice? :up:
You have to help out whatever rad you use by blowing colder air across it or by lowering the water temps externally.

~Philly~

Probably ice water. Infact I may just freeze up some of the coolant in cubes and then drop them in the main bucket with the coolant as well. I also have 2 desk fans that blow lots of air quickly at adjustable speeds so I may also use these with the big rad if I choose to use that one.


What wattage of a TEC is used on that block? A 2X120rad should be fine for a smaller TEC.

226w MCW6500T

P.S. The delta fans are only going to be used for hardcore benching... I need to find some acceptable high CFM w/ low DBA fans for 24/7 use.

hecktic
07-19-2007, 02:59 AM
Hmm Im having second thoughts about this AUX PSU...

Meanwell 320wl Auxiliary Power supply - S320 - 12

Compatibility:

Auxiliary power supply for thermoelectric applications (226 W Peltier dervices)

Includes:

* 320 Watts single output Switching Power supply (Power Supply Only)
* Output voltage 12 volts
* 25 amps +- 1% - R&N 150mV
* Effi. 82% Input voltage: 88~132 VAC/176~264VAC
* Input frequency 47~63Hz
* UL/CUL approved 2 Yr warranty
* Dimensions: 9” x 4.5” x 2”

Compare that with this

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/3198/psu-123/Mean_Well_600W_24V_Single_Output_Switching_Auxilia ry_Power_Supply_SE-600-24.html?tl=g30c105

Now obviously 25 amps on the S320 is not going to be better than the Meanwell 600w @ 30amps including its 24 volts...

Price wise the S320 would be better since it will serve its purpose of cooling any Core 2 Duo chip but beyond that I dont think it would suffice when used with the MCW6500T since its only a 226w TEC.

But what Im concerned over is the price point of these... I mean for the same price of the S320 I can get 1 more AMP at also 12volts it seems on this here
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/5984/psu-318/Ultra_Power_Partner_325-Watt_ATX_Power_Supply_ULT40063.html?tl=g30c105

The only downside I can see is the 73% efficency vs the higher 82% on the S320.

What would you get?

Or would you just invest in a bigger Main PSU for your entire rig, like this here with 116 amps at 1600watts
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/5628/psu-304/Ultra_X3_1600W_Modular_Quad-SLI_Ready_Power_Supply_and91ULT40070_-_Preorder_720.html?id=E8R6vcya

EDIT: Correction I think its actually a grand total of 175.5 amps... :shocked:

I need a bigger PSU anyways for 2 volt modded ULtra cards setup in SLI plus along with the other power hungry parts in my rig like the 4 hard drives, audigy card, etc.

So what would you pick?

hecktic
07-22-2007, 03:15 AM
bump...

Duh
07-22-2007, 09:05 PM
bump...

p.s. philly are you willing to sell or trade your mcw6500t and the Meanwell PSU for something... if so send me a pm
not trying to be nasty.. but that is against forum policies..

J

hecktic
07-22-2007, 11:16 PM
not trying to be nasty.. but that is against forum policies..

J

:eek: oops.. post has been edited and fixed. sorry :doh: