Projecy: Prometeia 2.4c - Radeon 9800 Pro

[r00t3d]

Well,

Its been a long weekend, finally got the show on the road :D

Here are some results.

http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=6664480

Prometeia: 2.4c @ 3.2, 9800 Pro @ 443/371

Not a bad considering only @ 3.2 and Radeon is Core:443 Memory:371 .
Samsung PC2700 Memory is @ 208Mhz Dual channel, so 416Mhz timings 2.5-3-3-7 <-- timings are not good.
Cant wait for the GeiL 3500 Golden Dragon to arrive in 24/48 hours :D

Defaults on the Radeon were Core:378.0 Memory:337.5 <-- that was §§§§ :(

Images 2 follow.

MBM:
http://www.crew-tde.net/r00t3d/prometeia/mbm3252.jpg

WCPUID:
http://www.crew-tde.net/r00t3d/prometeia/wcpuid3250.jpg

[Blord]

Nice oc, but your 2.4C surely must do better than 3.2Ghz ?

[r00t3d]

I am not going further than 3.2 until I dont get my GeiL RAM, gonna have to sit tight until then :D

Also, until I dont get some kinda cooling on the Radeon, considering Peltier, with Swiftec Waterblock. Still looking for reccomendations for what to use for cooling that Radeon.

[charlie]

Hmmmm....
Yeah, you've got some room to go. Prommy, CW, 800fsb, R9800...
you've got quite a bit of optimization yet to do.
This is my old school P4 2.66 with 533 fsb. Oh and it's with crappy '03 drivers too. Correct drivers and I'd probably hit 22K.

[r00t3d]

I havent figured out how to change my multipler yet, its currently stuck on 12x, which means I goto hit a higher FSB, in this case 270, just to get to 3.2ghz.

Like you said there is a long way to go yet, and tips and advice are alwas welcome, my current msn is r00t3d03@hotmail.com I am a 24/7 person so just leave a message ir email :D

[charlie]

nothing is IMPOSSIBLE
no need 2 change the gas on Prometeia, it does what I need it to do

Just to prove you wrong I am going to hit 23-25k


__________________
-r00t3d

Little more difficult eh?

OK. Here's what you need to do for now.
1) you can't change your multiplier, it'll ALWAYS be 12x
2) Set fsb to 280 (3360mHz) and divider to 3:2 which will give you ddr374. Try for cas2, 6,3,3. Bump up your vddr to 2.8, Bump up your cpu to 1.60v
3) Open your ATI control panel to Open GL and D3D. Set sliders to Performance (far left).
4) Set R9800 to 460/375
5) In 3D mark, open select tests, clear, then select 1 set of tests at a time, Car, Drago, Lobby...uncheck the previous one after you run it. Wait 5 minutes between tests.
6) Voila 21K

[r00t3d]

I new I was gonna get quoted that previoud remark f mine LOL.

Anyhow, thanks for the tips :D

[r00t3d]

Originally posted by charlie
OK. Here's what you need to do for now.
1) you can't change your multiplier, it'll ALWAYS be 12x
2) Set fsb to 280 (3360mHz) and divider to 3:2 which will give you ddr374. Try for cas2, 6,3,3. Bump up your vddr to 2.8, Bump up your cpu to 1.60v
3) Open your ATI control panel to Open GL and D3D. Set sliders to Performance (far left).
4) Set R9800 to 460/375
5) In 3D mark, open select tests, clear, then select 1 set of tests at a time, Car, Drago, Lobby...uncheck the previous one after you run it. Wait 5 minutes between tests.
6) Voila 21K

Done as requested.
Couldnt get windows to load @ fsb 280, ram divider was only available 6:4 no 3:2 :(
Radeon was @ 460/375

Below are results.

http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=6664882

3DMARK:
http://www.crew-tde.net/r00t3d/prometeia/3dmark19743.jpg

MBM:
http://www.crew-tde.net/r00t3d/prometeia/mbm3308.jpg

CPUz:
http://www.crew-tde.net/r00t3d/prometeia/cpuz2336ram.jpg

WCPUID:
http://www.crew-tde.net/r00t3d/prometeia/wcpuid3308.jpg

The only thing I didnt do is 1 test at a time, wait 5 mins, then do next test, and then all 5 tests in 1 go.

[Major]

Originally posted by r00t3d
I havent figured out how to change my multipler yet, its currently stuck on 12x, which means I goto hit a higher FSB, in this case 270, just to get to 3.2ghz.

Unfortunetly you can't change the multi's on P4's :(

The only thing you can change is fsb and the divider.

[r00t3d]

Originally posted by Major Slaughter
Unfortunetly you can't change the multi's on P4's :(

The only thing you can change is fsb and the divider.

Bummer, my stupid manual says I can change it 8-50 :( muwah

[Major]

Intel makes a very small sample of ES chips (engineering samples) that mother board manufatures and other companies that would require a chip that can change the multiplier get to test and design with. Every once and a while you can find one for sale on ebay or in forums. But they typically don't OC very well since they are very early samples, usually made while the fab is being set up and refined. (pre production) I don't know much about them but some mobile chips are unlocked too.

[charlie]

Well you see that's not really a bad 3300mHz 3d run...
You need to get yer CPu speed up! AND your drivers are sh*t for 3dmark01!!! Change to a 6307 driverset. Get yer new memory and rip it up! With the way yer rig sits right now...you could still hit 20K
C

[r00t3d]

What a lovely morning (not its pissing it down).
My GeiL Golden Dragon PC3500 arrived at 07:45 this morning :D

Here is my first test with this GeiL:

http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=6666456

WCPUID:
http://www.crew-tde.net/r00t3d/prometeia/wcpuid3494.jpg

CPUZ:
http://www.crew-tde.net/r00t3d/prometeia/cpuz3495.jpg

MBM:
http://www.crew-tde.net/r00t3d/prometeia/mbm3495.jpg

3DMARK01 SE:
http://www.crew-tde.net/r00t3d/prometeia/3dmark20559.jpg

Still the only thing left, is the cooling for the Radeon and Chipset.
Can someone give me some suggestions here so I can clock the Radeon higher, and also pump the CPU further.

Thanks

[charlie]

Nice...
At 291FSB, can you run the GEIL @ 5:4 that'd be ddr466!!!
That'd be worth a few points by itself. It SHOULD do it.
About the R9800, mcw50-t will get you to about 520 with a vgpu mod, it's really easy. Make sure you bench with the side of case open and a floor fan blowing inside, preferably cold air. Northbridge...? Cpu...your temps are fine, what voltage are you running at? Test your cpu limit by setting mem to loose timings and 3:2 divider. Try 290 then run a benchie, if it works, GOOD! Try 291, if it fails, bump Vcore by .025v If it succeeds, try 293 if it fails, increase vcore. Keep doing this until you will say something like
" My cpu will do 298 at 1.775v, but above that no amount of voltage will help" To improve the overclock, you'll have to
1) cool cpu more
2) cool NB
3) improve memory (if that's a factor)
4) Use better PSU
5) Buy a 2.6C
lol
C
C

[r00t3d]

i cant get 3:2 divider :(
now I have the fsb @ 300 stable :D
so 3609 MHz :D
charlie I am gonna get past that 22k barrier today :D
pics to follow.

http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=6666680

3DMARK01:
http://www.crew-tde.net/r00t3d/prometeia/3dmark21099.jpg

MBM:
http://www.crew-tde.net/r00t3d/prometeia/mbm3608.jpg

CPUz:
http://www.crew-tde.net/r00t3d/prometeia/cpuz3608.jpg

The only thing that concerns me @ this time, is that my voltages keep changing eg. 1.47 to 1.49 thats the voltage for the CORE :D
I dropped my core down to 1.49 fro, 1.55 :D and I am still @ 3.6 stable

I have a 480watt psu, what could it be?

[Shane5578]

what mobo, vcore are you using?

[GVCryan]

Turn off HT. I've heard it causes a hit.

Looks like your doing quite well, better than I thought you would.

I laugh when people come in talking about how they will hit top 10, but never listen to the naysayers. You listened after around 20 posts, and I can respect that. Afterall, no matter what you have me creamed.

Does anyone remember that one guy who started talking smack with Opp around Christmas time(youthemandan?) He told Opp he would have him beat within the week, he never even showed to the party.

Hurry up an get top10, all these Portugese are ripping us Americans to shreds;)

[r00t3d]

GVCryan, LOL, I am British :D I will turn of HT and see if it makes any difference, and post back.

Shane5578, its a Epox 4PCA3+, vcore is @ 1.5

I have dropped the MB temps by doing some house keeping inside, its now 24c where as it used to be 34c.

I will keep you posted on further updates.

I want this baby in the top 10 :D
Thanks for all your help guys.

[TerroH8er]

take off the stock ATi heatsink and apply some quality thermal compound, that might get you a few mhz. Won't it go any higher?

[jmke]

nice goals, I wish you the best of luck r00t3d!
great gear you got there to play with =)

[charlie]

OK Root, You're getting there.
Listen, you've GOT to try your ram at 5:4, It'd be a nice performance bump over 3:2 (same as 6:4).
That's ddr480, the GEIL really should do it. Bump Vddr to 3.0 or 3.1 on your Epox and try it! You NEED it! Even try reducing timings to cas 2.5, 7,3,3 for the 5:4 divider. Problem is...at ddr400 your mem b/w is sh*t.
You're not gonna' get your cpu MUCH higher...benching at 300, pretty good. Like I said before keep rig cool that'll help.
3Dmark 01 is ALL about cpu speed, so mostly it's all about GPU and OS/Testing optimizations. Here's the top scores under 3650mHz, you're a ways off...Now's where it get's tricky, getting that first 90% out of a rig is easy, it's the final 10% that's tough.
C

[r00t3d]

I tried as you said charlie.

Firstly, I could get the system to POST, but windows just wouldnt load on 5:4 divider and ddr @ 480MHz.

I then changed the timing to 2.5 7-4-4 and got that to boot.
The 3dmark results were worse not any better. 21247

Since, I have disable HT, and pumped the GPU up a bit 463/378 and managed to get 21376.

Its all a matter of getting this Radeon cooled down, so I can clock the baby, then I should be hitting 23k.

I cant get more than 300 FSB, the system POSTS but XP wont load.

http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=6667881

3dmark01 se:
http://www.crew-tde.net/r00t3d/prometeia/3dmark21376.jpg

further suggestions?

[charlie]

Root,
Nice.
Bummer about the 3:2 but it's ok. Can you go any tighter at ddr400? Maybe cas2, 5,2,2 or 6,2,2? Now simply more GPU's not gonna get you there. On 3Dmk03, the test relies on vid card more, but 01 really relies on cpu clockspeed and OS/Game optimizations. My suggestion to you...buy a mcw50-t, it plugs into your PSU, throw a pump in a 5 gallon bucket to feed the TEC. Add ice to water, install a vr on pin18 Sc1175CSW and ground (see forum how to) raise vcore to 1.85v...This alone should be good for 515ish maybe 530. But that STILL won't get you 23K. You'll need OS optimizations and skill running the benchie. You should search 3d Mark tips and READ, READ, READ. It's not enough to simply change priority of test to "real time"... these first page guys are slashing their OS...and juicing every drop out of their rig.
Are you running tests separately yet?
Sit down. Relax. Learn how to run one test at a time. Let's say Car Chase High, run it over and over to see what GPU speed works best. And remember to boot anew between runs. Only bench after a fresh boot. Find the optimum speed, write it down.
Proceed with the other 6 tests. THEN work on order of running tests...
Maybe
Car Hi
Lobby Hi
Car Lo
Drago Lo
Drago Hi
Lobby Lo
Nature
or maybe a different way ;)

Anyone can climb up 18,000ft and gaze at the peaks of Everest...
But da*n FEW can reach the summit.

[charlie]

Oh...
And dump the dx9, the cat 3.4 drivers...
slap in 8.1 and some 6307's too.
Ok no more tips for you until you bring back a respectable score...
Now off with you, young padawan. Working hard and struggle you must. lol
:stick:

[r00t3d]

charlie, goto love you man :D

firstly, help me with how to uninstall dx9 from xp :D thats prolly the hardest part.

I am gonna order the cooling for the radeon and chipset :D

[GVCryan]

ACK, reformat!!!! You should set up 3 partitions on your rig 2x 5g and the rest on 1.

Then install win2k or XP pro on one little guy, ghost it to #2 little guy. Then run WinXP Home or whichever one you didn't choose for benching on the big drive for everyday uses.

That lets you get the boot manager window, so you can choose whether to daily compute or just bench.

Then, reformat and ghost that benchmark drive every week or so. Keep the OS clean. No corruption, no problems.

[Creative]

Originally posted by charlie

Doesnt it annoyt the hell out of you when u see the top 3 spots being taken by the 1 person...;)

*hint* *hint*

:)

[charlie]

Lol,
Like 6/20 23.334
6/21 23,357
6/22 23,359 ?
Should be a rule of 1 publish at a time.
Yup
C

[r00t3d]

I am considering selling the 2.4c and getting a 2.8c instead.
Good or bad idea?

[Creative]

Check my sig for the 2.8C results I acheived.

I can do SuperPi and PiFast at 4010mhz but pc crashes after ~5 mins.....thats where Im thinking the r404a mod Im going to do will get me the 4ghz stable :)

So yerp, imo the 2.8C is what u want for raw cpu mhz, and if you want yummy bandwidth and 'nice' cpu speeds, then yep the 2.4 is your choice :)

in my opinion :)

[r00t3d]

problem,

done the rebuild as said, minimum everything, but i only get 18000 3dmarks now, dropped 3500 marks, same cpu setup and memory, just no where near the same results.

[Vatt]

Guys, this is one interesting thread.
I have just bought a Radeon 9800 (non-pro) (from Dell) also
and put it in my system. (P4. 3.0 @ 4.0 MachII cooled etc.etc.)
and I'm also getting only 18.500 3dmark2001se.

Man, I was already at 17.500 with my old Ti4200. This is my first ATI, so I have to find all the tweaks and such, but this thread has been absolutely wonderfull.

Great info, and thanks to charlie for being so helpfull! :toast:

[berkut]

1 thing- reinstall windows ^^ Maybe its simple and obvious but sometimes we forget about it, i forgot when ive got my FX 5800 and wondered whycome ive got only 6000 ptk ^^ Reinstall and i had 16000 :D

[BrainStorm]

Good thread...:)

charlie, got a new avatar for you....:D

[charlie]

Thanks, BrainStorm
And so it is!

[GVCryan]

Did you switch drivers, OC utilities, or anything else in between. IT has to be something you screwed up.;)

OH, run a defrag 3 times in a row. Always needed after a reformat.

[r00t3d]

I realised what it was, the Rage3d wasnt keeping the setting that I was setting the GPU upto, so it lways went to default 370/335, that why I was getting 18k, when it put it back upto 460/375 I got my 21k+ again :D

[r00t3d]

I gots a question:

I am not sure on which setup to get, to cool the GPU.

Prometeia or Vapochill?
I have heard the vapo is easier to mount than the prometeia, but I am not looking for a new case to go with it, with the prometeia, I can just buy the freezing unit alone. You can buy the vapo unit, but you need to build it all, and its gonna be like a water setup, and I gots no room for that in my case.

Any suggestions?

[charlie]

Hi Root
The only way you can run a Prommy or a Vapo as a gpu cooler is by setting your rig up horizontal on a workbench. You can't really do it well in a case. At least not easily.
But come on! You're not finished yet...you've got a 22-23k rig right NOW, work it!!
C

[r00t3d]

charlie,

what about this?

http://www.asetek.com/main/page.asp?sideid=282

good or bad?

I should be able to squeeze it into my case

[charlie]

If i'm not mistaken, that unit needs to be mounted "above" the cooled chip...
C

[jinu117]

One thing I noticed with 3dmark 2001 SE...
Memory timing seem to effect score a lot.
I've got mine running in all air for 9800 (438/371... anything higher will start artifacting a little due to lack of v-core... I could bench to 450 or so though :P) & 2.4 @ 3.23 (M/B is limiting me currently)...
Gets me 2.05k on 2001. (XP pro and whole buncha of junk installed... its my 24x7 rig). (a little better than urs at similar speed). However, my memory timing is at agressive 5:4 2-3-3-6 vs urs. (also have turbo enabled with PAT enabled).
Could up the v-core on GPU but I am waiting till I get more money for back up. (burnt 9500 pro and 9700 pro in last 6 months or so with volt modded usage so far... :P)
MCW50T I bet will do wonders on ur GPU though from my past experience with 9700 pro. I remember going to 438+ on GPU core with just v-mod on 9700 pro so ... 9800 pro should go much much higher :P)

Higher FSB/Tighter timing on memory/and 9800 pro cooling seems to be the things you could look into for future improvement.

GOOD LUCK :)

[r00t3d]

Originally posted by charlie
If i'm not mistaken, that unit needs to be mounted "above" the cooled chip...
C

If I am cooling the GPU only, I have space for 3, 5/4" drives, and should be able to fit that compressor into there, therefore it is above the chip that is being cooled.

If not I will take the DVD-ROM out as I hardly use it anyhow :D.

[r00t3d]

on a side note, i got the GeiL running @ 480MHz 2-6-4-4 3.1vdimm
board allows me 3.3vdimm, shame my mboard dosent allow higher than 300ffsb :(

This is what the rig is doing.

Epox 4PCA3+
2.4c @ 3.6 (300 x 12 x 1.525)
GeiL Golden Dragon PC3500 (480MHz, 300fsb @ 5:4 2-6-4-4)
Radeon 9800 Pro 460/375 (air)

I assume I have impressed many, who didnt believe I could get past 20-21k mark. I still have plenty of tweaking to do, as charlie says this current setup, will get me 22-23k.

I havent done any benchies for over a week, as been busy with biz, my last benchie hit 21378, with a different setup to above.

My target for this moment in time is gonna be 23k, eventually 25k.
I have a very very big drag towards getting a 2.8c or 3.0c just so that I can hit 4ghz, now that I know my board can get me to 300fsb stable, ram 480mhz stable :)

[oplix]

err...witha prommie, 2.4, 9800 pro your only getting 21.2k? ....come on now...release the power. And what the hell were you thinking getting geil???? lol

[jinu117]

Originally posted by oplix
err...witha prommie, 2.4, 9800 pro your only getting 21.2k? ....come on now...release the power. And what the hell were you thinking getting geil???? lol

Nice bias... u have tried geil urself? Bah... What HAVE you got to show off than?

[charlie]

Originally posted by oplix
err...witha prommie, 2.4, 9800 pro your only getting 21.2k? ....come on now...release the power. And what the hell were you thinking getting geil???? lol

Ever tried any?
My PC3700 runs at ddr506 at 3.1v @ cas 2.5, 3,3,7
and ddr468 @ 2.85v @ cas2, 5,2,2
Your precious *** Technology ram will stumble all over itself trying to do cas2, 5,2,2 at ddr468
pfffttt.............
Any questions?
C

[charlie]

Hey Root!
Try to run some 3Dmark03...you should do well there.
Here's a little somethig for you to compare with:
My old 2.66 @ 3.68, R9800 Pro, IC7, GEIL PC3700
Oh and its on water with TEC.

[r00t3d]

as, charlie kindly told you, GeiL is ownage :D

[BMORIN]

Very nice of Charlie to give this guy some expert advice. Most of us had to learn the hard way about all of this.

Ahem, don't mean to burst some bubbles here, but I'm running a straight WC'd xp1700+ ($50), TEC cooled 9500np ($144), 512MB Twinmos Ram ($100), and I'm only scoring 1k less than you, Root.

In fact when I get my NB waterblock in this week, crank up the vdd, and put chilled water through the system for first time, I might even come close to you.

[Liquid3D]

Your Epox motherboard took the round-up for FSB bus overclocking, you should go nuts with that. And not that I would ever dare to give you advice, but I can tell you not to be shy with the 2.4C I'm at 3.6GHz on Air, and only reaching 36C. By the way, I'm slapping mine in my Prometeia tommorrow morning for some Overclocking Hell. Your 3DMark2001SE score makes me very jealous.

Oh one more thing, we did a "round-up" on all the Graphics card "tweakers" and nothing came close to the Powerstrip program. Where-as others make changes to the registry, Powerstrip makes changes to the timings on the card's memory! There's no other program BESIDES the SoftMod (which only makes one change) that makes changes to the graphiccards BIOS other then Powerstrip. Please try it, and let me know?

[r00t3d]

BMORIN, I love competition :)

Liquid3D, I am thinking of changing my board, as I am stuck @ 300FSB, I am positive I can get much more out of this 2.4, as I went up in 10FSB chunks, from 200 - 300 in 10 attempts, not even 1 failed :D

Let me know what you get with your prommie.

[BMORIN]

Competition is what fuels the fire :)

[luihed]

Dont think Im flaming but that score is kinda low for what you have and at the settings you have it at..... my 2.4C at 288fsb and 9700pro at 448/351 is only 200 pts behind you ( see sig)... I believe you should be closer to 22k with those settings....

[Liquid3D]

I know I keep saying it but I promise to put the system in my Prommie tomorrw. I know I'm a retard letting a brand new Prometeia sit here for three months basically unused. But In have to fiinish an article for the SLK900U, and the PCPower&Cooling 400W, but I'm finally writing the dam thing. It's one of my "in-depth" articles which requires compacting three years of EE into a 3-page article. And I can't write about what I hjaven't grasped.

ANyway, my dam Tyan Is artifacting in 3DMark2003? Any reason why it would artifact in that program, but not in 2001SE? please help fellows? I think the cards has to go back, Second one. These Tyans' are crap. There's just too much aluminum between the memory, and the world, When it get's warm that "mass" of aluminujm has a tendancy to retain the heat, rather then disperse the heat of the chips beneath it. It only works if the ambeint is low, very-low. Here's my 3Dresults, still it's over a 1000 point improvemt from my AMD nForce2 rig at 2400mHz;