TEC along with a (Storm Rev.2, D-tek fuzion, Apogee GTX)!

[c.freak]

I need some advice with these blocks. Im up for using my 226w TEC together with my opteron 165. I had it mounted on my x1900 before this (not for long). Anyway.. measuring the bottom of the blocks i wonder which one would fit perfect with the 50mm sided TEC ? I talked with sidewindercomputers at first cause i saw they had the Apogee, and as i expteced the TEC would fit good with the plain bottom. I'm a bit confused over the other blocks, so suggestions i s appreciated.

Right now i use an old Antarctica (pretty old i know). I've modified it with epoxy and put in 16mm ID fittings.
It's this little cute bastard (http://www.overclockers.com/articles1006/asret1.jpg) :rolleyes: ontop of my naked 165. I idle ~ @ 29-33| load ~@ 49-50. Even the NB goes together with the loop and the radiator is an old BIP2 (dual) cooled by 2 x low noise Antec fans, placed under the case-bottom.

Maybe i should even go with the Antarctica, but if i could reach somewhat lower temps with another and also get a sexyier look then i would go for that.

The TEC will be going on a Meanwell 320W.
I know there's not a BIG difference between these, (but i can be wrong).

72.95 >GTX and 89.95 for the Storm (petrastechshop) and the fuzion for 63.95 (sidewindercomputers)

At last. Do you think i should go with the BIP2 or go for another one, maybe heatercore or just a little more ordinary xtreme-dual?
I mean, can i decrease the temps even more then, or is it just unnecessary?

[serialk11r]

Storm definitely won't work on TEC, because its "cooling area" is very small. Fuzion and Apogee GT/GTX can be MADE to work but that's up to you. I don't think any of them will make a perfect fit.

[c.freak]

Just as i expected. Yeah, the storm looks a bit small but i needed to check first.

Then it stands against Fuzion and the Apogee GTX, but i think i'll go with the Fuzion.

But would another radiator have big effect later on?

[MaxxxRacer]

The Apogee GTX would probably be your best bet based on the cooling area.

[serialk11r]

Do your tubes feel warm? BIP240 handling over 500W of heat won't keep water temperature very low...
I'd add another radiator.

[NaeKuh]

i get sad when i see tec's i so wish i could use them, but this quad is rediculously too much for a 226W tec.

good luck on your project, if i get some insights on your setup, i might do the same.

[serialk11r]

Wait a moment, how are you planning to fix the coldplate to the block?

[c.freak]

I don't have access to any CNC-machine or something like that for the coldplate. Last time i used the TEC it was on an Maze 4 GPU block and that was totally crap (first time ever) and i knew it even before i began to work with it.
Anyway that's a hole different story.

This time is gonna be real good. The coldplate im gonna use is like 10-10.2mm thick or should it be thinner? How I mount it up is something i have to think about more closely. But by looking at the Fuzion which measures 55mm along the sides, it seems to be the best choice cause then the TEC won't go over the screws like it would (i think) on the Apogee GTX. But i guess you guys know's best and got the best solutions.

I had a look at this review http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/hardwarecanuck-reviews/1033-cpu-water-block-round-up-apogee-gt-gtx-vs-storm-vs-fuzion-vs-apogee-vanilla.html
And as far as i can see the Fuzion seems to be the best, but i'm a bit confused about this cause all i read in the comments about Apogee GTX and the otherones is how good they can do. Fill me up on that one!

edit: But if the GTX really is the better one, how big difference is there to the Fuzion

Do your tubes feel warm? BIP240 handling over 500W of heat won't keep water temperature very low...
I'd add another radiator.
I've been planing on another rad for a while know so this seems like the best time for another.
You meant this one *HW Labs Black Ice Xtreme II Dual 120mm - Black > 45.99*

[Cronos]

Your CPU is probably highly overvolted and has thermal output at least 150W.
If you really want to see some substantial temp improvement from TEC, you need to get one with approx. twice the cooling power than your estimated thermal output.
That is, assuming you going to use both cores for your work/play. If you just going to bench in Super PI, you can get away with much smaller TEC :)

[c.freak]

What i wanna do is to reach higher clock, and not have to worry about the hot air outside and inside the room. I don't whant xtremeresults looking at the temperatures. The TEC is supposed to work 24/7 just like my running system is doing now. I'm not sure about what temp i will be looking at but i've been heard that 165's will get down around -15 celsius and down to zero.

Right now it runs @ 3060mhz. It have been stable before @ 3240 with 11 celsius. I got 80,120 and 226w TEC's and haven't planed for anything else than the 226.

[serialk11r]

6mm should be fine. But you need to find a way to get the coldplate on, because last time I checked, the screws on the GTX aren't 50mm apart :stick: or maybe they are... to be safe, ask gabe about it, or someone who has measurements.

And that BIX thing sucks. Do you have access to a shop that sells coolingworks or swiftech radiators? Or thermochill? (:D)

[c.freak]

The one i got in my hand right now is 5mm but i can get thicker ones.

On the fuzion i find it somewhat not to difficult to get the coldplate on. I'm thinking of measuring up the screw-holes (holding the main bottom) to the coldplate and the just drill through the copper and then just use longer screws and then tighten it up all-together. How about that?
It's the same idea like on the peltier-version of Maze 4.

Anyway, if you think i should stick to the Apogee which i find even more difficulty to get the coldplate on, what big difference is it by looking at the temperatures? Maybe it isn't to difficult but as i said, the Fuzion seem's easier to work with.

[serialk11r]

Well, the pelt you want to use is 50mm right? Then you need to find a block that has pins covering a 50mm^2 area, and screws more than 50mm apart so they don't hit it. The problem is, I'm not sure if the Fuzion or GTX have enough space for a TEC like that...

[c.freak]

Hey! How about looking at this.
http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/sidewindercomputers/fuzion1.jpg
As you can see that's the Fuzion spec's. It can't be more than 4 -5mm from the outside and to the point where the *50mm* TEC will end up. To me it seems to be the best one just as i said.
Maybe I mail sidewindercomputers and ask them what size there really is on the fuzion-bottom.

Maybe i've should have given the spec's right before :rolleyes:

[serialk11r]

Hey! How about looking at this.
http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/sidewindercomputers/fuzion1.jpg
As you can see that's the Fuzion spec's. It can't be more than 2 -2.5- 3mm from the outside and to the point where the *50mm* TEC will end up. To me it seems to be the best one just as i said.

Maybe i've should have given the spec's right before :rolleyes:

Yea the block is 55mm wide but the screws are definitely not on the edge so I'm pretty sure it won't fit.

[c.freak]

Correct.. i was a little more happier before when a took a slight look at the block. But we'll se how it goes. But i wonder, how bad is it if the TEC's edges goes just a little bit outside the cooling-area? Is it very bad or just not a big deal?

[serialk11r]

Correct.. i was a little more happier before when a took a slight look at the block. But we'll se how it goes. But i wonder, how bad is it if the TEC's edges goes just a little bit outside the cooling-area? Is it very bad or just not a big deal?

Its not just a problem with the cooling area, your SCREWS WILL BE OBSTRUCTING THE TEC. the TEC will not even FIT under the block.

[c.freak]

You're right! I've never measured this wrong before =(.. At the begining i saw it like over 1cm, don't ask me why. I feel really stupid now.

Sorry for being unsympathetic about the truth.
I go ahead look for another one.. i guess i end up with an MCW5002-64.

[Cronos]

What i wanna do is to reach higher clock, and not have to worry about the hot air outside and inside the room. I don't whant xtremeresults looking at the temperatures. The TEC is supposed to work 24/7 just like my running system is doing now. I'm not sure about what temp i will be looking at but i've been heard that 165's will get down around -15 celsius and down to zero.

Right now it runs @ 3060mhz. It have been stable before @ 3240 with 11 celsius. I got 80,120 and 226w TEC's and haven't planed for anything else than the 226.

B4 you even consider buying TEC, you have to do some simple math to evaluate projected temperatures and compare it with plain water temps.

First, you need to find out you thermal output. For this, you need frequency and voltage. You did not provide voltage, so lets assume the thermal output is 150W.

With 226W TEC and 150W load, you will have 70C*(226-150)/226=23C difference between TECs hot and cold side.
The TEC will consume additionally around 330W of power. This will all transfer to heat and go to water. If you use, say, Thermochill PA120.3 with 3 YL D12-SL -wich has 0.03C/W thermal resistance - you will have additional 330*0.03~10C increase in water temperature. You should subtract this from 23C obtained above.
Now, you will have some additional temp. drop on hot side interface due to increased temperature gradients. It is hard to estimate this drop, but it will be at least 2-3C, but most certainly more. Subtract this from above.

For now, we have 23C-10C-3C=10C. Thats how much you'r aiming to achieve comparing with plain water loop. There are more factors to take into account,
of course, i did not take them for simplicity.

[c.freak]

Aha! that may change all my planing. At first i already got an 226w, but after reading what you've showed i may not be into this afterall.

Didn't quite know how to find out the thermal output eather. Thanks!
Maybe it's just a bad choice to go further with the TEC i guess. I'd could have guessed the final temps would be around 5-10-15C due to the high wattage. I mean it's better than my summer-temps 30-40C but even know i don't have any super-radiator or block which could later on decrease the temps. Sooo..! 10C with TEC against 20-28C with regular cooling (better quality on stuff).

Maybe it's bye bye TEC.. or shall i go for it? Anyhow i ended up with this cheap and simple solution http://www.petrastechshop.com/dadenma4a641.html .

[serialk11r]

Aha! that may change all my planing. At first i already got an 226w, but after reading what you've showed i may not be into this afterall.

Didn't quite know how to find out the thermal output eather. Thanks!
Maybe it's just a bad choice to go further with the TEC i guess. I'd could have guessed the final temps would be around 5-10-15C due to the high wattage. I mean it's better than my summer-temps 30-40C but even know i don't have any super-radiator or block which could later on decrease the temps. Sooo..! 10C with TEC against 20-28C with regular cooling (better quality on stuff).

Maybe it's bye bye TEC.. or shall i go for it? Anyhow i ended up with this cheap and simple solution http://www.petrastechshop.com/dadenma4a641.html .

TECs are horribly inefficient, I never liked them anyways :P okay enough of my stupid ranting [slaap]
Well that block is nice and cheap it might do for a while...

[Cronos]

10C with TEC against 20-28C with regular cooling (better quality on stuff).

To clear up possible misunderstanding, 10C is the difference between TEC cooling and plain water cooling. It is not that you are going to reach 10C core temperature -this is surely impossible.

[serialk11r]

To clear up possible misunderstanding, 10C is the difference between TEC cooling and plain water cooling. It is not that you are going to reach 10C core temperature -this is surely impossible.

Well considering that your CPU is not always loaded, it is possible that he'll get pretty nice temps like that. But to have an effective TEC setup you need to have one hell of a watercooling system.

[c.freak]

Well considering that your CPU is not always loaded, it is possible that he'll get pretty nice temps like that. But to have an effective TEC setup you need to have one hell of a watercooling system.
Hehe yeah! your're damn right about that :D

Ok.. My temp now (30C) - 10. Well then i don't even consider using the TEC. Going for some xtreme radiator and the sexy Apogee GTX afterall.

All help appreciated this far.

[Cronos]

Why would any1 be so interested in idle temps is beyond me.

The -10C estimation was for the full load condition. If you're going to run idle all the time,
you may even get subzero -no problem.

[c.freak]

Ahhh.. of course you meant full condition, then there might be a fourth or fifth chance for this =). An idle-temp "around" subzero that's pretty ok to me.

What i meant with (30C) - 10 wasn't minus 10, just ~30 - 10 = ~20C l
So you don't get me wrong there.

I'm up for the AMD Agena cpu later this year..and for then i really wanna have a good block. Is it worth it to first buy the one i showed lately and then remove the TEC and just stick to plain water for the Agena.. or do you think the same block+TEC would work good with the quad-core (65nm).. or is it way over the limit?

[Cronos]

Either plain water of phase change. Dump the TEC.

[Tulatin]

Would it be possible (or even reasonable) to use alternate mounting holes on the top plate (for example K7) to retain the coldplate, if you epoxy or insulate around the lip of the TEC and up the side of the block?

[serialk11r]

Would it be possible (or even reasonable) to use alternate mounting holes on the top plate (for example K7) to retain the coldplate, if you epoxy or insulate around the lip of the TEC and up the side of the block?

Apogee GTX HAS NO OTHER HOLES...:( not sure if there's an alternate mounting plate but... Fuzion might work, but there's another problem, which is there's not water flowing over all parts of the TEC.

[Tulatin]

Sorry. i was looking at my apogee vanilla when it was asked. Worse yet are blocks that have a step at the base; it would have to be removed in order to effectively cover the TEC.

[KaptCrunch]

if running sub-zero temps you need to insulate for condensation, water sweat will run an short board/socket

[c.freak]

yeah yeah.. Im aware of the insulation for condensation later on.

*Fuzion might work, but there's another problem, which is there's not water flowing over all parts of the TEC*
That's a point! :confused: hmmm and the Apogee GTX does have water flowing allover the area ofcourse?

But as Cronos said. Do you think i should end this right now and just go for better quality (block and raditor). Ok! i will get a downboost for the temp but is it worth all the wattage and so on ?

Sry! But i must have missed serialk11r's post.. *BIX sucks u have access to shop with swiftech or thermochill?* Yes i've got.. or actually all cause of the small selection of some CPU-blocks and that special designed PSU i thought it would be best to look in states. I can show you a store in Denmark wich got PA120.3 and really nice radiators http://vcore.dk/shop/120mm-triple%2b-42c1.html and here's the thermochill's http://vcore.dk/shop/thermochill-33c1.html *beatifull i know!* :D
The shop actually got the Fuzion.. but not the Apogee GTX.. real sad.