Question about condensation

[4ghzduo]

Hey guys i did a search and couldn't find anything related to what i want to know.

Ok so I want to go sub-zero temps ;) :D . so i though i would go with Vapochill system. but everyone that I asked said that they got condensation :mad: .

I don't know if they're not doing it properly but i wanted to ask u guys because it seems that u guys really know what your doing. will i eventually have condensation with a stock vapochill system?

i turn my system off at night not all the time but most.

My current system is:
Core 2 Duo 6400 (allendale) @ 3500
Commando
2g of OCZ platnium DDR8000 @ 8500 (1066)
2 x 500G sata hd
7900GT OC (overclocked to 590gpu - 1.45gh mem)
Liberty 620W
2 watercooling kits (cpu 1 & nb and vc 2)

[[XC] gomeler]

Condensation only forms when there is either
1) Not enough insulation so the insulation itself begins to sweat
2) Air is able to contact the evaporator or the frozen motherboard.

You avoid #1 by having thick enough insolation and you avoid #2 by forming a solid seal around your enclosure. I just wrote up a little guide on my website addressing this situation, the pictures show how I sealed up my socket using a Chilly1 evap + enclosure, it might apply to you also. Here's the link (http://gomeler.com/2007/05/14/phase-change-lga775-socket-insulation-guide/)

[Speederlander]

Good job on the clay idea. I've never seen that one before.

Won't that clay flow/settle over time, possibly allowing for small air gaps? Or, if you slightly rock your evap when installing, you may compress one side further than the final position allowing for an air gap. Maybe not, I really have no idea, but both possibilities seem real.

[Ssilencer]

Hey guys i did a search and couldn't find anything related to what i want to know.


There is guide in the stikies about insulation, so you didn't look carefully :)

gomeler;2190875']Condensation only forms when there is either
1) Not enough insulation so the insulation itself begins to sweat
2) Air is able to contact the evaporator or the frozen motherboard.

You avoid #1 by having thick enough insolation and you avoid #2 by forming a solid seal around your enclosure. I just wrote up a little guide on my website addressing this situation, the pictures show how I sealed up my socket using a Chilly1 evap + enclosure, it might apply to you also. Here's the link (http://gomeler.com/2007/05/14/phase-change-lga775-socket-insulation-guide/)

What is that stuff you used??

[wdrzal]

3); there is not a appropriate vapor barrier,closed cell insulation does both jobs, open cell does not,additional precautions must be taken

[[XC] gomeler]

It's oil-based modeling clay, melting point of 50 celsius. Not worried about it getting to 50 celsius, just don't cover up any really hot vregs with the stuff, most sockets have enough clear space that this isn't an issue though. I got tired of dealing with dielectric grease so I decided to go with the clay, so far so good, clay stays around ambient temperatures and seals up nicely to my donut ring. If you have a compressed donut around your socket then you shouldn't have an issue with the clay being displaced and a gap forming. The clay is pretty stiff stuff also, similar to silly putty.

[wdrzal]

gomeler;2190976']It's oil-based modeling clay, melting point of 50 celsius. Not worried about it getting to 50 celsius, just don't cover up any really hot vregs with the stuff, most sockets have enough clear space that this isn't an issue though. I got tired of dealing with dielectric grease so I decided to go with the clay, so far so good, clay stays around ambient temperatures and seals up nicely to my donut ring. If you have a compressed donut around your socket then you shouldn't have an issue with the clay being displaced and a gap forming. The clay is pretty stiff stuff also, similar to silly putty.

you better check clays dielectric properties before you short traces out, it has water in it

all modeling clay I ever used got hard if left in open air long enough, oil don't evaporate

[[XC] gomeler]

I checked it's resistance with my multimeter actually, won't be conducting any electricity anytime soon. This stuff is marketed as "self adhering, non-toxic, never hardens, permanently pliable... melting point 150F(65.5c)." Guess we will find out if their product really is non-hardening or not :p:

[wdrzal]

did you try meter on ohms X100 or higher or a megger that pushes high voltage to end of probe and measure leakage, used mostly to check for insulation breaking down on motor windings, if the copper insulation and if a coil shorts ,your finished.

[[XC] Lead Head]

did you try meter on ohms X100 or higher or a megger that pushes high voltage to end of probe and measure leakage, used mostly to check for insulation breaking down on motor windings, if the copper insulation and if a coil shorts ,your finished.

Your finished? Or the motor ignites on fire and a breaker pops?

[Brettbeck]

It's not the end of the world if you kill hardware. Just learn from your mistakes and get on with life.

If the clay is working ok for you then so be it. If it fails you know not to use it again.

[[XC] gomeler]

did you try meter on ohms X100 or higher or a megger that pushes high voltage to end of probe and measure leakage, used mostly to check for insulation breaking down on motor windings, if the copper insulation and if a coil shorts ,your finished.

No Walt, I didn't do these extensive tests to push excessive amounts of voltage through the clay. Last time I checked PCs stop at 12V DC on the motherboard, now if someone is running a high-voltage motor on their motherboard then that's their issue :D For our purposes the clay is non-conductive, perhaps if someone wants to blast 100,000 volts through the clay I'm sure you could get a nice arc but in any normal situation it's safe.

[Ssilencer]

Gomeler, can you get me a link to that Clay please? ther only thing I found was at wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clay_%28industrial_plasticine%29

Also, do you have any spec sheet, say thermal properties etc?

If not, I don't think it is safely to advice people to use it without warnings.


It's not the end of the world if you kill hardware. Just learn from your mistakes and get on with life.

If the clay is working ok for you then so be it. If it fails you know not to use it again.

It is not the end of the world for you, but for people that had to work hard to get his hardware it is.
And again, one thing is to compromise your own hardware, if you got busted, ok, but you can't recommend people to use something that you are not 200% sure it is safe.

[[XC] gomeler]

plasticine is similar to vaseline with a chalk filler to give it body, checks out on all the properties I need (won't evaporate, won't solidify, doesn't conduct electricity) and no apparent defects. Apparently it has a flashpoint of 415*F but if you are hitting 415*F then you have issues other than condensation(dielectric grease has a flashpoint aroud 500*F for reference). Here's the MSDS, I doubt you'll easily find a study of it's sub-zero physical properties but it reacts like all other clays by stiffening up a bit, but it shouldn't contract or crack unless perhaps you dunked it into a He bath. I'm 100% sure it is safe for our applications, my desktop is living proof.
http://www.vanaken.com/msds/MSDS%20VA%20Modeling%20Clay.pdf

[Ssilencer]

It's not the end of the world if you kill hardware. Just learn from your mistakes and get on with life.

If the clay is working ok for you then so be it. If it fails you know not to use it again.

gomeler;2191966']plasticine is similar to vaseline with a chalk filler to give it body, checks out on all the properties I need (won't evaporate, won't solidify, doesn't conduct electricity) and no apparent defects. Apparently it has a flashpoint of 415*F but if you are hitting 415*F then you have issues other than condensation(dielectric grease has a flashpoint aroud 500*F for reference). Here's the MSDS, I doubt you'll easily find a study of it's sub-zero physical properties but it reacts like all other clays by stiffening up a bit, but it shouldn't contract or crack unless perhaps you dunked it into a He bath. I'm 100% sure it is safe for our applications, my desktop is living proof.
http://www.vanaken.com/msds/MSDS%20VA%20Modeling%20Clay.pdf

A living proof is a year working, not a month
Anyway, we have to be sure about its thermal properties, I-m not interested at all if this stuff will start talking and dancing over +60c, I want to know about insulation and dielectric properties.

And thanks, I will check that pdf

[wdrzal]

you only run voltage up to that is incured,then check for leakage.

I relize most don't have these expensive tools but when I said that I thought the post was from Exahertz or would hae access to a megger in his job

A lot of my post mention tools many never hear of or what they are used for, just trying to expand the knowdgledge of every one who reads this post, last night we had 230 members logged on and 1000+ guests, that why I beleive post should be accurate and if you challenge one please give enough info as to why. Everybody makes mistakes,including myself, I admit my mistake applogize and try to explain why mistake was made and move on.

Dont critize unless you can back up you statement with proof & a explanition why.You could be right or wrong as some grab onto a single theroy and don't look at problem as a whole

[[XC] gomeler]

In early June I'll dismount the unit and take a look at how the clay has held up, I took enough pictures of the stuff so I should be able to notice any major differences such as a liquid flow or a breakdown in the clay. This clay isn't meant to be a replacement to good foam insulation, it is simply used to seal up the motherboard, a replacement for dielectric grease.

edit: June 1st coincides with the end of the XSTM vs XSTA crunch-off in the World Community Grid section, can't have anymore downtime then was necessary to seal up the board :D System will be running 24/7 @ 4GHz for the next 16 days and probably 24/7 till early August when the chip gets replaced.