Newbie Questions

[ForeverAgain]

Hello I'm new to TEC and had some questions about it. I have read all the sticky posts and seen all the rigs in the gallery :) . I just have a few questions to ask before i start ordering the parts for my rig. I am about to order a water cooling setup and wanted to make it compatible with TEC cooling when i get to that point.

The parts im about to order are the D-TEK FuZion (http://www.dtekcustoms.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=182) , Thermochill PA120.3 (http://www.thermochill.com/pa1203.php) , and i haven't decided on the GPU block for my x1900xtx yet.

I read a lot of posts and on other sites that TEC setups aren't the most efficient and had some questions about the PSUs for them. Now im no expert on power and such and i wanted to know whats the best watt TEC to get for powerconsumption/cooling ratio. I see most sites have 226W TECs (http://www.dangerden.com/store/product.php?productid=85&cat=30&page=1) . and from the Ultimate guide sticky i read that going any higher than that only help to cool like an extra 10% or what not so i was wondering whats the best way to go with that? Also the PSU for the TECs i was wondering how many TECs you can hook up to 1 PSU. I found these ones: the Meanwell on dangerden (http://www.dangerden.com/store/product.php?productid=90&cat=32&page=1) and i found the Meanwell on FrozenCPU (http://www.frozencpu.com/products/3198/psu-123/Mean_Well_600W_24V_Single_Output_Switching_Auxilia ry_Power_Supply_SE-600-24.html?tl=g11c26s89) . i was wondering if you can only have one TEC connect to each of these? i was planning on eventually having my CPU and GPU(s) set up with TEC so i wated to make sure i get the right amount of power.

OK onto the parts for the TEC. Is the D-tech going to work well with a TEC setup? the copper base on the D-tech looks to be large enough for most TECs . Now i read that most people were saying you need a Cold plate because the CPU doesn't carry the heat over to the TEC very well so i figured i would end up with something like this coldplate (http://www.frozencpu.com/products/2410/exp-03/40x40mm_Copper_Cold_Plate.html?tl=g30c105s188) or if you have any other suggestions because i was reading on other sites that the most efficient cold plates have heat pipes in them so I'm hoping you can point me in the right direction. I was slo looking at the swiftech products that are the water block and TEC all in one and was wondering if i would see better performance out of those than a separate TEC and water block.

Now to the GPU. I was looking at most sites and they have things like GPU water blocks with TEC conversions (http://www.petrastechshop.com/qw.html) and wondering what was the difference between these and the normal block. Also would something like that work with just normal water cooling until i get the TEC unit? Or if anyone has a great experiance with a GPU water block they did well with TEC could point me to it :) .And like my last questions do pre-assembled GPU blocks with water cooling and the TEC built in tend to perform better?

I also couldn't find a whole lot on preparations before mounting a TEC unit. I see people posting greases and lubes for the TECs and I'm familiar with thermal pastes but not these and also i know that condensation is a problem. So if anyone can point me to some guides i would be eternally greatful :) :banana:

I know I'm asking a lot of questions and i thank you guys in advance for your responses.

[HaxR3]

Wow someone who has done their research before posting. Well done tbh :).

The GPU block that you linked to looks to be a good'un.

The coldplate you linked to would probably be a bit too small. A 50x50mm should be just right.

As far as I can tell the D-Tek should work fine with a TEC but I can't say for 100% certain.

[serialk11r]

The only way to be sure, is to measure how much area the block covers (how much area the block can cool). Before you drop your money, I'm going to say this: they are very inefficient so prepared to pay some high electricity bills and you'll need to take care of all the heat.
A 50mm TEC is probably the most you can fit. I would try to find a 320W TEC, and undervolt it, because its supposed to get better efficiency that way, and with an adjustable PSU, you can tune the TEC to your liking (performance that is).

[ForeverAgain]

Thanks for the replies guys!


Before you drop your money, I'm going to say this: they are very inefficient so prepared to pay some high electricity bills.

How much does it cost per month on average to run a TEC setup?

Thanks again :)

[serialk11r]

Thanks for the replies guys!



How much does it cost per month on average to run a TEC setup?

Thanks again :)

Depends...simple calculations really.

[Holst]

Ok...

Im not sure how that Dtec block will manage with TEC. I dont think anybody has run one with TEC before.

Witout clamping the TEC to the coldplate your performance will be significantly WORSE than the swiftech 6500.

The swiftech block is also supplied with almost everything you need to run TEC and is MUCH MUCH easyer to install than a custom setup.

With the GPU blocks its the same story as the GPU ones.
Blocks that let you clamp the TEC to the coldplate will perform better.
Try and get the biggest TEC you can for GPU as many of these blocks were designed around 80watt TEC's, I think 172watt 40*40mm is what you should look for.

"how much will it cost to run TEC"

The TEC itself will probably use around 250-300watts average (assuming a 220watt TEC) it depends on the voltage you run at, CPU wattage and cooling eficcency.

So thats 300*60/1000 18Kwatt/Hour (this is probably a high estimate)

I dont know electricity prices in the US but from your bill you should be able to work out how much it will cost per hour to run the TEC.
From seedomos numbers your PC itself will be using 300-400watts for comparison.

I wouldnt be fooled by these 320watt TEC on ebay.
They are only a 244watt TEC, the 320watt is just a totaly different number to the "normall" way of classifying a TEC's size.

[n00b 0f l337]

They are only a 244watt TEC, the 320watt is just a totaly different number to the "normall" way of classifying a TEC's size.
Actually we've just been classifying them wrong. TEC's are generally rated in businesses and labs by their total power consumption, since the minute you change the voltage, its pretty hard to determine the new qmax.

[Cronos]

Concerning those 320W TECs,
320W is Qc with hot side at ~50C.
270W is Qc with hot side at ~35C.

Power consumption is ~450W for 270W Qc. This is more than maximum total power consumption of dual Quad-core Xeon server (8 cores total) with 8GB of RAM! It is about the level of total power consumption of SLI system with quad-core Core2 cpu!
So much power is wasted just to cool one CPU to sub-ambient temp, which is not going to have any substantial effect of over clocking potential anyway.

Single TEC coolers are terribly inefficient; 270W TEC, consuming 450W, cannot really be effectively used for CPU with more than 100W load.

[Cronos]

TEC's are generally rated in businesses and labs by their total power consumption, since the minute you change the voltage, its pretty hard to determine the new qmax.

They are rated for cooling power, not power consumption.
And Qc almost linearly depends on the current and, most of the time, almost linearly depends on the voltage.
Qc~Qcmax * V/Vmax.

270W (320) TEC have 450W power consumption at 15V and Qc=Qcmax=270W (delta T=0).
At 7.5V, it will have Qc=135W (delta T=0) and power consumption 110W .

But still, terribly inefficient. For typical delta T=30C it will have only 70W Qc and consume 110W!

[powie]

the fuzion block works with a 50mm tec nicely (they the same size base) but a maze4-1 cpu tec block might be worth looking at (i couldnt get hold of one in uk @ the time tho).

i use a copper coldplate (lapped) and clamp down using the dtek fitting plate (with neo-preme gaskets compressed by it too)and it seems to work well.

one thing i would recommend getting is a relay switch for the meanwell(unless i missed it in your post)

the pa120.3 is a great rad (i will prolly get another) as my water temp on load is slightly warm.

cant help on the gpu side as i havent bothered with that (i dont game much)

all in all it works well.

see the phase change section for guides on insulation.

[littleowl]

Hello I'm new to TEC and had some questions about it. I have read all the sticky posts and seen all the rigs in the gallery :) . I just have a few questions to ask before i start ordering the parts for my rig. I am about to order a water cooling setup and wanted to make it compatible with TEC cooling when i get to that point.

The parts im about to order are the D-TEK FuZion (http://www.dtekcustoms.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=182) , Thermochill PA120.3 (http://www.thermochill.com/pa1203.php) , and i haven't decided on the GPU block for my x1900xtx yet.

I read a lot of posts and on other sites that TEC setups aren't the most efficient and had some questions about the PSUs for them. Now im no expert on power and such and i wanted to know whats the best watt TEC to get for powerconsumption/cooling ratio. I see most sites have 226W TECs (http://www.dangerden.com/store/product.php?productid=85&cat=30&page=1) . and from the Ultimate guide sticky i read that going any higher than that only help to cool like an extra 10% or what not so i was wondering whats the best way to go with that? Also the PSU for the TECs i was wondering how many TECs you can hook up to 1 PSU. I found these ones: the Meanwell on dangerden (http://www.dangerden.com/store/product.php?productid=90&cat=32&page=1) and i found the Meanwell on FrozenCPU (http://www.frozencpu.com/products/3198/psu-123/Mean_Well_600W_24V_Single_Output_Switching_Auxilia ry_Power_Supply_SE-600-24.html?tl=g11c26s89) . i was wondering if you can only have one TEC connect to each of these? i was planning on eventually having my CPU and GPU(s) set up with TEC so i wated to make sure i get the right amount of power.

OK onto the parts for the TEC. Is the D-tech going to work well with a TEC setup? the copper base on the D-tech looks to be large enough for most TECs . Now i read that most people were saying you need a Cold plate because the CPU doesn't carry the heat over to the TEC very well so i figured i would end up with something like this coldplate (http://www.frozencpu.com/products/2410/exp-03/40x40mm_Copper_Cold_Plate.html?tl=g30c105s188) or if you have any other suggestions because i was reading on other sites that the most efficient cold plates have heat pipes in them so I'm hoping you can point me in the right direction. I was slo looking at the swiftech products that are the water block and TEC all in one and was wondering if i would see better performance out of those than a separate TEC and water block.

Now to the GPU. I was looking at most sites and they have things like GPU water blocks with TEC conversions (http://www.petrastechshop.com/qw.html) and wondering what was the difference between these and the normal block. Also would something like that work with just normal water cooling until i get the TEC unit? Or if anyone has a great experiance with a GPU water block they did well with TEC could point me to it :) .And like my last questions do pre-assembled GPU blocks with water cooling and the TEC built in tend to perform better?

I also couldn't find a whole lot on preparations before mounting a TEC unit. I see people posting greases and lubes for the TECs and I'm familiar with thermal pastes but not these and also i know that condensation is a problem. So if anyone can point me to some guides i would be eternally greatful :) :banana:

I know I'm asking a lot of questions and i thank you guys in advance for your responses.


Thanks you very much for reading before posting questions!!!!!

CPU block looks really nice! I would get a cold plate 55mm x 55mm! And a tec that is 320w from ebay!

As for power I would get a meanwell 320w or bigger. Then undervolt it as needed!

[ForeverAgain]

Thanks for all the replies guys. I see that the TECs are power hungry and i understand this i in the TEC forum but was wondering would consumes more power: TEC on CPU and GPU(s) or a chiller unit?

Thanks again! :banana:

[NaeKuh]

Thanks for all the replies guys. I see that the TECs are power hungry and i understand this i in the TEC forum but was wondering would consumes more power: TEC on CPU and GPU(s) or a chiller unit?

Thanks again! :banana:

oh ho... the only question i can answer on this forum: :D

Chillers use compressors so like phase is much more efficient. I got a nice discussion from nol and serial about TEC's and gave up using them on my CPU.


:T But im still hopping someone has an awesome idea for it b4 i send my case off to a custom builder to get phase intigrated internally in it.

[littleowl]

Thanks for all the replies guys. I see that the TECs are power hungry and i understand this i in the TEC forum but was wondering would consumes more power: TEC on CPU and GPU(s) or a chiller unit?

Thanks again! :banana:

Chiller is a lot more effective. It is a matter of choice though. just read up on both chiller and phase you will be able to make your own choice much easier!!

IMO get water setup and then get used to it before you go chiller or tec..

[ForeverAgain]

Thank you so much for the help everyone. I think i might start researching doing the water chilling because from the looks of it you can control the temperature of the water. I would really like to start out without having to insulate my loop and all and then down the road insulate it.

One last question, and if i need to ask this in the chiller board i will. Can you create a loop where you can turn the chiller off and still run the regular water llop? like use some valves and such. Thanks again!

[serialk11r]

Thank you so much for the help everyone. I think i might start researching doing the water chilling because from the looks of it you can control the temperature of the water. I would really like to start out without having to insulate my loop and all and then down the road insulate it.

One last question, and if i need to ask this in the chiller board i will. Can you create a loop where you can turn the chiller off and still run the regular water llop? like use some valves and such. Thanks again!
Ever noticed your fridge turning on and off? I think you can do that with a chiller. Its done with a controller I think.

[Cronos]

One last question, and if i need to ask this in the chiller board i will. Can you create a loop where you can turn the chiller off and still run the regular water llop? like use some valves and such. Thanks again!

You can wire the internal part of the loop inside the case and then have two "Y"
at the enter with four valves. One branch will go to normal WC radiators and another branch to the chiller.