View Full Version : Gibbo @ OcUK has R600
Baron
04-12-2007, 05:54 AM
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=17712718&page=1&pp=30
Hi there
It arrived at 10:30am this morning, had to sign some NDA forms meaning I cannot disclose to much info.
Initial thoughts are it looks good, its very silent. Having issues at the moment with the alpha/beta drivers and no doubt due to the fact the OS had a NVIDIA card previously installed.
But on noise its quiet, pretty much silent. It runs hotter than a GTX but does not burn to the touch like previous ATI cards.
I will report back later in regard to performance once I've got past installation gremlins.
Hi there
Nope its a retail, OEM won't be available to end users to purchase.
This is the same size as a GTX card, no bigger so will fit in cases fine.
It has a 8-pin and 6-pin PCI-E connectors but you can plug a 6-pin connector into the 8-pin without issues so you won't need to upgrade your PSU's to the new types.
Hi there
Well got a few things running, though I am not confident at all with the drivers as things do see glitchy, might possibly need a fresh OS installation.
Am impressed though by the fact whilst underload it still remains nice and quiet, the fan control seems to work quite well, certainly a lot better than the old X1950's which seem to be just either on or off with the volume so the improved fan control is an nice improvement as it means now whilst gaming it still remains quiet.
Performance can't really say but at the moment its a mixed bag, some things its very impressive and others am unsure about but the image quality does seem some what better than the GTX with certain settings which could account for the lower FPS on some test, just seems more sharper and more details thrown into the image.
All I can say is wait for official reviews to get the real info on benchmarks and how it performs. For the moment I can not come to a conclusion on the performance until I've had more time with the card.
I feel it will be around GTX performance but has more features, better Vista performance and cost quite a lot less than a GTX.
fornowagain
04-12-2007, 05:56 AM
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2124178&postcount=209
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1178902
Latest
Hi there
Right so you all get the chance to find out some first hand information on ATI's latest card but in your view its all pointless?
So the fact it is indeed quiet, also remains quiet underload and runs cooler than previous X1950's is all meaningless?
The fact this card has much improved Vista drivers over the Current ATI CAT drivers with new features is also meaningless?
The fact that in OpenGL performance, DOOM3 and Aquamark is quicker than the GTX card is meaningless?
The fact image quality is on par or better than the GTX is meaningless?
So the fact I have one here in my hands, the first person to have one in Northern Europe is all meaningless?
I am having major issues with 3D Mark 2005 and 2006 in the fact that it hangs on the splash screen. :(
Does anyone know a workaround, ATI inform its due to the fact the product is new and unreleased and hence it just hangs on the 3D Mark splash screen. HELP guys!!
Eastcoasthandle
04-12-2007, 06:17 AM
um ok...
G.Foyle
04-12-2007, 06:32 AM
I feel it will be around GTX performance but has more features, better Vista performance and cost quite a lot less than a GTX.
nVidia do you hear that? price drops now please!
Max Tractor
04-12-2007, 07:12 AM
Gibbo @ OcUK has R600
Lets hope he does not need to RMA it. "He works for them" I hear shouted, no s--t
FghtinIrshNvrDi
04-12-2007, 07:24 AM
Oh, holy price wars. It's about time.
Ryan
Cybercat
04-12-2007, 07:34 AM
A price war is welcome. Not much faster is somewhat surprising. I do hope all this waiting wasn't for nothing.
I dont trust Gibbo :)
ATI/AMD will be glad to have his biased opinion helping sales to slightly less clued up ppl, but his interest in the card is to make money, please keep that in mind guys :)
A price war is welcome. Not much faster is somewhat surprising. I do hope all this waiting wasn't for nothing.
> ;)
Having issues at the moment with the alpha/beta drivers
Ubermann
04-12-2007, 08:16 AM
Havent gibbo been towards Nvidia since birth ?
And im sure that people will check reviews and bench before bying it, so dont start any bs about biased.
Periander6
04-12-2007, 08:37 AM
I feel it will be around GTX performance
A six month wait for no better performance while consuming considerably more power? That's a horrible joke people. It speaks volumes that the damn thing isn't even out yet and they are talking up its pricing and the god knows when its gonna be out R650.
If this was a kick ass product they sure as hell wouldn't be talking about undercutting the 8800 on price before this thing is even out. These beasts can't be cheap to produce. Was there a drop in the price of copper recently? TSMC giving wafers away now? Maybe they got a deal on 24 watt fans? Whatever, Kyle is right, this thing smells like a total train wreck.
fornowagain
04-12-2007, 08:42 AM
Latest
HI there
I dunno you guys. The performance is very similar to GTX in benchmark and games but I think thats the most I can really say, maybe a 5/6 on your scale thingy.
If ATI do price it cheaper as suggested and due to the extra features it has I am sure it will be quite a popular card, especially due to ATI's better driver/game support, especially under Vista. :)
Motiv
04-12-2007, 09:07 AM
I've never heard of a superior card being released lower than the competition. AMD, Intel, Nvidia hell even cyrix would price there cards at the competing cpu/gpu.
Even if these cards were far superior, I would expect AMD to release parts slightly better at the same price point.
All smells slightly fishy.
Why on earth did ATi decide that this guy was the first to get an R600 in Europe? Jeezes.
DilTech
04-12-2007, 09:16 AM
Because OCUK is one of the biggest resellers there... Gibbo's mission, to sell all presales before release. By giving gibbo the card, they can have him running his mouth on his forums about it, and hope to sell out on OCUK.
He's done the same with pretty much every new high-end, and in this case there's more push to do so since the cat has been let out of the bag that the R650 is coming a few months after the R600 does... Retailers are definitely a bit worried at that news to say the least.
The fact that he says performance is pretty much even with the 8800GTX makes me giggle though. ~8 month wait for even performance...
Yes, but OCUK isn't the largest e-tailer in Europe, in fact I'd say it's pretty far off. But yeah, as an advertisement stunt I guess it could make some sense.
fornowagain
04-12-2007, 09:25 AM
Because OCUK is one of the biggest resellers there... Gibbo's mission, to sell all presales before release. By giving gibbo the card, they can have him running his mouth on his forums about it, and hope to sell out on OCUK.
He's done the same with pretty much every new high-end, and in this case there's more push to do so since the cat has been let out of the bag that the R650 is coming a few months after the R600 does... Retailers are definitely a bit worried at that news to say the least.
The fact that he says performance is pretty much even with the 8800GTX makes me giggle though. ~8 month wait for even performance...
And to add, one of the only UK retailers who charge your credit card as soon as you preorder. Most wait for dispatch, makes it a right pain to cancel as you have to ask for a refund.
[XC] gomeler
04-12-2007, 09:26 AM
This is rather hilarious, guess we will have to wait till some good clockers have R600 in their hands but Gibbo's simple remarks make it sound like this card is a load of crap. I hope it's a driver issue...
fornowagain
04-12-2007, 09:27 AM
Yes, but OCUK isn't the largest e-tailer in Europe, in fact I'd say it's pretty far off. But yeah, as an advertisement stunt I guess it could make some sense.
Not the largest overall, certainly not in all of Europe. But a healthy portion of the UK's "enthusiast" high end graphics card market with a well populated home forum. The only other place to hear directly from large UK e-tailors is Hexus and that's a good deal less populated.
You do know he just has the XT version,right?
fornowagain
04-12-2007, 09:33 AM
You do know he just has the XT version,right?
Yep and won't give us the clocks either.
in Europe we have many samples for testing ... official launch is pretty near, sample has everyone ...
Fancy sending me one? :p: I can pass it around the EP-UK guys and get a 100% unbiased review done, with averages on clocks and scores between the team.
Cybercat
04-12-2007, 09:45 AM
You do know he just has the XT version,right?Well, that's a relief.
fornowagain
04-12-2007, 09:50 AM
Must be using a lot of juice as well from this comment. More than 2x6 pci-e or 225W+ :eek:
HI there
To overclock you will need all 8 pins connected to give the card the power required to higher clock speeds when overclocking.
Metroid
04-12-2007, 09:59 AM
The same thing happened to Conroe. Gibbo runs the mafia guys.
Must be using a lot of juice as well from this comment. More than 2x6 pci-e or 225W+ :eek:
Wouldn't it work just to use some sort of 6pin -> 8pin adapter?
Sparky
04-12-2007, 10:12 AM
Wouldn't it work just to use some sort of 6pin -> 8pin adapter?
Thing is the power is still only coming from the original 6 pins, so you could run the risk of possibly cooking the connector since it wouldn't be rated for that much.
deathman20
04-12-2007, 10:14 AM
You do know he just has the XT version,right?
XT with preformance on par of a GTX? Really wow wasn't looking for that to happen.
Sparky
04-12-2007, 10:16 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if maybe the alpha drivers are lowering performance, I don't know of any alpha drivers that have been as good as final drivers. Heck even the final drivers keep getting tweaked.
Revv23
04-12-2007, 10:16 AM
^it's not going to pull enough to burn out pins unless you have the cheapest PSU ever... 2x6 will can deliver enough power, but it will be out of spec... remember all of those wires go to the same contact point... once power hits the card it doesnt matter if it comes from 10 cables or none, as long as the juice is there.
anyways, if ati is planning on competing on price, that would be awesome, because the last four gens or so have been soley competing on performance, driving prices sky high.
G.Foyle
04-12-2007, 10:23 AM
Yeah, prices go down! RAM is getting cheaper and cheaper, cpus also, it's time for GPUs!
SnipingWaste
04-12-2007, 10:26 AM
^it's not going to pull enough to burn out pins unless you have the cheapest PSU ever... 2x6 will can deliver enough power, but it will be out of spec... remember all of those wires go to the same contact point... once power hits the card it doesnt matter if it comes from 10 cables or none, as long as the juice is there.
anyways, if ati is planning on competing on price, that would be awesome, because the last four gens or so have been soley competing on performance, driving prices sky high.
You are right about it coming from the PSU but the problem would be the amount of amps pulled on only 2 12V wires. The 8 pin power plug was made to split the amps across 4 12V wires so by forcing it to 2 would cause the 2 12V wires to over heat and melt the insulator and cause a short. What would work would be a adapter that had 1, 6 pin and 2, 4 pin so you would have the amps across 4 wires.
Looking forward to seeing some XL benchmarks. Cheapest card with 512-bit memory interface. Should be a good matchup against the 8800GTS and it may be the card for us x19xx users to upgrade to!
fornowagain
04-12-2007, 10:32 AM
Wouldn't it work just to use some sort of 6pin -> 8pin adapter?
From this it sound like you need 3x6 pin pci-e.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=135775
I'm not convinced, taken from:
http://www.enermax.com.tw/english/upload/document/M20071199331439308.pdf
Looks like only the addition of two common wires. Still only 6 power conductors in total (excludes common returns). I'm wondering if one is some sort of report back to the PSU as there is no additional power conductor from 2x 6 pins pci-e?
http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/4473/image1el7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Hm, must be a way to by-pass that. Perhaps an adapter with molexes? I'm not about to get a new PSU just yet.
G.Foyle
04-12-2007, 10:40 AM
6-pin PCI-E connector has 6 wires: 3x 12V and 3x ground. I think that on most high end psus cables are good enough to handle that load; and if you have some cheapo PSU it won't probably handle the load no matter what wires are used.
Well...with Gibbos position, if he says it needs all 8-pins filled, he wants to boost sales of PSUs with the extra 8-pin plug.
What happened to the talk of the retail cards being 65nm, with an associated power draw of ~1/3 less? (so....<200W)
saaya
04-12-2007, 10:44 AM
So the fact I have one here in my hands, the first person to have one in Northern Europe is all meaningless?hahahaha NOTTTTT!
deathman20
04-12-2007, 10:45 AM
What happened to the talk of the retail cards being 65nm, with an associated power draw of ~1/3 less? (so....<200W)
Thats the R650 which is suppositily coming out late Q2 early Q3.
Periander6
04-12-2007, 10:54 AM
Thats the R650 which is suppositily coming out late Q2 early Q3.
Says who? You have a link?
I haven't seen any timeframe on the R650 other than "as soon as we can get it out".
I thought R650 was the launch card, and the late-minute die shrink was why it was so late...they wanted to combat the power draw, leakage and a few tweaks before release.
So...do we have another X1800->X1900 situation here?
I`m not s***-stirring, i've heard so much, and missed a few bits of news, and I really dont know whats goin on any more :confused: The threads on it have so much info...at what point in them can we take as the hard fact and the final launch details etc..
G.Foyle
04-12-2007, 11:17 AM
So 8 pin pci-e connector has two more ground wires? i can't see the purpose of that...
Hicks
04-12-2007, 11:19 AM
Meh, he hasn't said anything, and can't because of NDA. What a waste of time.
Just wait for it to be released.
Scimitar
04-12-2007, 11:29 AM
XT with preformance on par of a GTX? Really wow wasn't looking for that to happen.
Yeah, the XT is suppose to have a 600MHz core and the XTX has an 800MHz core. So if the XT is the same speed as a 8800GTX, than the X2900XTX should be about 30% faster than the 8800GTX. Maybe that is why NVIDIA is launching the 8800 Ultra.
fornowagain
04-12-2007, 11:35 AM
6-pin PCI-E connector has 6 wires: 3x 12V and 3x ground. I think that on most high end psus cables are good enough to handle that load; and if you have some cheapo PSU it won't probably handle the load no matter what wires are used.
As I said, the two extra pins supply no further power. It still only uses 6x12v power conductors (excluding common returns), the same as the standard 2x6 pin pci-e. If its not increasing load capacity why use it? Adding two commons doesn't increase the rating, odd, but the card senses they're not connected.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2032757&postcount=13
Down the road "300W PCI-e cards" are going to look for communication with the PWM via the +12V sense wire on the new 8-pin connector and I think that's how the card's going to know if there's an 8-pin connected or not. I think the R600 cards are going to just look for that extra +12V or ground and that's it. Otherwise, the adapters wouldn't work because you can't just add a +12V sense wire to an exisiting connector.
So a "mod" without using two 6-pin connectors and/or an adapter would be easy. Just take an extra connector and take the connector off the end. Cut the unused wires short and plug the +12V and ground from the connector into the remaining two pins of the video card. Done.
Of course, the adapters are going to work fine because with two 6-pin connectors, you can deliver almost twice the juice and only really need another 6.25A of juice to get to the card at the absolute, balls to the wall, maximum.
And even then, I don't think the cards are going to really need THAT MUCH juice. I think the big hold up is going to be just in getting the card to recognize that you're providing juice and ground on all 8-pins of the connector.
fornowagain
04-12-2007, 11:39 AM
Yeah, the XT is suppose to have a 600MHz core and the XTX has an 800MHz core. So if the XT is the same speed as a 8800GTX, than the X2900XTX should be about 30% faster than the 8800GTX. Maybe that is why NVIDIA is launching the 8800 Ultra.
Its never been such a difference between the XT to XTX. More like 25 or 50Mhz. But 200Mhz?
deathman20
04-12-2007, 11:40 AM
Yeah, the XT is suppose to have a 600MHz core and the XTX has an 800MHz core. So if the XT is the same speed as a 8800GTX, than the X2900XTX should be about 30% faster than the 8800GTX. Maybe that is why NVIDIA is launching the 8800 Ultra.
http://www.fx57.net/?p=576
- İşlemci: Conroe 2.93GHz
- Anakart: i975 yonga setli
- Bellek: 2GB DDR2-800
- Sürücü: ATI Catalyst 7.1 (8.33) - Nvidia Forceware 97.44
Windows Vista skorları-3DMark 2006;
- ATi R600XTX 1GB’lık model: Ortalama: 12k - GeForce 8800GTX 768MB: Ortalama: 10,5K
- ATi R600XT 512MB’lık Model: Ortalama: 10k - GeForce 8800GTS: Ortalama: 9K
Now theres some scores. On 7.1 cats though interesting. That would basically confirm that, very intresting.
DilTech
04-12-2007, 11:48 AM
http://www.fx57.net/?p=576
- İşlemci: Conroe 2.93GHz
- Anakart: i975 yonga setli
- Bellek: 2GB DDR2-800
- Sürücü: ATI Catalyst 7.1 (8.33) - Nvidia Forceware 97.44
Windows Vista skorları-3DMark 2006;
- ATi R600XTX 1GB’lık model: Ortalama: 12k - GeForce 8800GTX 768MB: Ortalama: 10,5K
- ATi R600XT 512MB’lık Model: Ortalama: 10k - GeForce 8800GTS: Ortalama: 9K
Now theres some scores. On 7.1 cats though interesting. That would basically confirm that, very intresting.
http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showpost.php?p=2680709&postcount=126
X2900 XTX barely beats my 8800 GTX single card tests in 3D 06 with an
QX6700 @ 3.8ghz as cpu used in test, board was dfi 965P-s,
ram was Corsair pc2-8888 C4DF's.
Were talking an 250 point difference here........
The above testing i did was on air, both cards clock @ stock spds.
Dynasty begs to differ...
Vapor
04-12-2007, 11:49 AM
So 8 pin pci-e connector has two more ground wires? i can't see the purpose of that...IIRC, one is SUPPOSED to be a 12V-sense wire....but considering many have been produced without it, who knows if it'll ever happen or get used :rolleyes:
Periander6
04-12-2007, 11:53 AM
I thought R650 was the launch card, and the late-minute die shrink was why it was so late...they wanted to combat the power draw, leakage and a few tweaks before release.
So...do we have another X1800->X1900 situation here?
I`m not s***-stirring, i've heard so much, and missed a few bits of news, and I really dont know whats goin on any more :confused: The threads on it have so much info...at what point in them can we take as the hard fact and the final launch details etc..
The R600 is what is launching next month, it is an 80nm part. The R650 is the 65nm version. As for when the R650 is coming out we only have the Inq:
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=38837
"as soon as possible"
and Fuad:
http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=472&Itemid=34
"as soon as possible...We don't know any schedules about R650 but we are sure that it comes later than Q2."
OK, yours are more recent, but this:
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=38292
proves my point :( Info is all over the damned shop
DilTech
04-12-2007, 12:21 PM
OK, yours are more recent, but this:
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=38292
proves my point :( Info is all over the damned shop
AMD confirmed the R600 is 80nm.
The R650, which AMD stated to be within a few months of the R600 during a press conference, will be 65nm.
I think i read theres a limited amount of 80nm ones..20k at the most,before 65nm come along.That was my understanding of the situation,i dont know whats changed,or wtf is going on for SURE now.
Periander6
04-12-2007, 01:56 PM
OK, yours are more recent, but this:
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=38292
proves my point :( Info is all over the damned shop
Yes, the Inq screwed it up. Fuad, somewhat surprisingly, got it right. The R600 is 80nm, period.
http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=373&Itemid=34
http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=221&Itemid=34
Baron
04-12-2007, 02:47 PM
Well that was a waste. NDA agreements suck.
Why bother with the R600 in the first place if they are releasing the R650 a few months later?
Now I'll be waiting for the R650. When are they planning to release it? I hope it's out before the end of the summer (rather optimistic I know). My 7900GT is holding for now but not for very long...
Timmay
04-12-2007, 02:57 PM
I'm not even buying one of these new GPU's but I'm getting tired of all this waiting :p:
I think it will be kinda sad when R600 will finaly come out,so many legends around it,it could walk on water/be the next messiah/the military could use it as a massive destruction weapon,it could consume more energy than the entire west coast of America I am just too afraid to find out the truth.....
I think it will be kinda sad when R600 will finaly come out,so many legends around it,it could walk on water/be the next messiah/the military could use it as a massive destruction weapon,it could consume more energy than the entire west coast of America I am just too afraid to find out the truth.....
I heard it was gonna bring back the A-Team! :woot:
okay. xt + alpha/beta drivers - cost = gtx performance.
it doesn't sound thattt bad
eXceeded
04-12-2007, 03:49 PM
Its never been such a difference between the XT to XTX. More like 25 or 50Mhz. But 200Mhz?
About time too! Pissed off that the difference between the XT and the XTX was soo rediculously small... Did not help my epenis at all!
xlink
04-12-2007, 04:16 PM
okay. xt + alpha/beta drivers - cost = gtx performance.
it doesn't sound thattt bad
i noticed...
I'm probably going to wait for R650 though I only have a 400W PSU(well a lot of reviews shot it doing fine at 450 but still)
I'm hoping for a 150W card that kicks ass.
a c2d w/ a mild OC 4GB RAM a few low power fans 2 CD drives and 2 harddrives can't draw more than 250W right?
gdogg
04-12-2007, 04:22 PM
i noticed...
I'm probably going to wait for R650 though I only have a 400W PSU(well a lot of reviews shot it doing fine at 450 but still)
I'm hoping for a 150W card that kicks ass.
a c2d w/ a mild OC 4GB RAM a few low power fans 2 CD drives and 2 harddrives can't draw more than 250W right?
as power supplies age, they no longer provide the same amount of power they used to.
I think you'll need one of these multi- 12V rail psu's for the r600 or r650.
DeathReborn
04-12-2007, 06:17 PM
I think i read theres a limited amount of 80nm ones..20k at the most,before 65nm come along.That was my understanding of the situation,i dont know whats changed,or wtf is going on for SURE now.
The 20k was 65nm cores. Yields on the 65nm R600 suck which is probably why they're respinnning for R650.