View Full Version : Watercooled condenser - anyone into this?
I just got my Vapochill runnin' with my AMD system and started thinking lower :D temperatures....
I'll certainly go for the R404a and bigger condenser fan....... but was thinking about watercooling the condenser and thus getting lower temperatures.... anyone had allready done this and how's the results? :confused:
Holst
06-05-2003, 12:53 PM
Ive also been planning this, but I need a bit more time to work on how to do it (im using prommy)
Ill take it to bits tonight and see how easy or hard it will be.
Holst
06-05-2003, 01:03 PM
Blimey !!!
Just took the side off my prommy and the compressor is SCORCHING hot.
Ive taken the pannell off and added another 2 120mm fans, lets see if my temps drop...
CodeRed
06-05-2003, 02:12 PM
Originally posted by Holst
Blimey !!!
Just took the side off my prommy and the compressor is SCORCHING hot.
Ive taken the pannell off and added another 2 120mm fans, lets see if my temps drop...
Holst
Just remove the 4.7V zener diode on the rear fan. That will make it run at 12V and cool the compressor better. Its still quiet running at 12V (34 dBa & 84 CFM).
Also, dont worry the compressor can take the heat ... 80deg C IIRC is its cutout temp. There is also a bimetalic switch (two pin TO-220 package that is zip tied to the pipe) on the input to the condensor (cutout set to 40 or 50 deg C IIRC). This shuts the system down if the high side gets too hot.
I replaced both my fans with 120CFM sunnons and it didnt affect my temps by even 1 degree. The only thing it did was make my prom unbelievably loud :(. I have since removed those noisy fans.
Merenfreak
06-05-2003, 10:04 PM
You have to cool the condenser with cold air, only this will help in dropping Temps. ( or a waterbath )
cya
Holst
06-06-2003, 09:02 AM
Im not running myfanson12v as its too loud for me.
Adding additional fans to the compressor didnt make the tamps any better at all so ive put the side back on.
Looking at the condensor I think I can watercool it, but im not sure if I want or need to yet. Depends on what I do case wise, if I make something then ill watercool but I might just buy a coolermaster to swap the enlight case with.
Originally posted by Holst
Ive also been planning this, but I need a bit more time to work on how to do it (im using prommy)
Ill take it to bits tonight and see how easy or hard it will be.
I have one fan on the back of the condenser, blowing into.... and the default one is running too.... like that I got 4C drop on the cooling head, which ain't that bad....
If I make the room colder the temps are getting even lower.... so I think that water will help really much... at least with my Vapochill Classic :)
bowman1964
06-07-2003, 07:01 AM
the cooler the condensor the better,but if the condensor output is only a few degrees warmer than the room temp it is doing all it can do.and nothing will help the evap temps to drop any lower.
increasing the cooling to the condensor helps when the condensor isnt able to keep up with the heat load and it starts to not be able to cool the refrigerate enough.this shows up in the evaperator with increased temp.but if the output of the condensor is just above room temp,you have all you are going to get out of it.
Thanx man for dropping by :toast:
So you're saying that If I make a watercooled condenser lowering the water temps under the ambient won't help a lot?
Like for an example using 15C water with an ambient temp of 30C?
Okay, forgive me if im wrong, im still a semi-noob at this phase change...
If you watercool the condensor subambeint, to say 0C, it will improve the temps a little but not by the difference of the delta between 0C and ambient.
To make it more effective, you need to remove some refridgerant and shorten the cap tube a bit, to lower the high side pressure, and the low side accordingly, yet still be able to condense the refridgerant due to the cooler condensor. That will give you the best results.
/me sits back and waits for bowman to blow me out of the sky cos i got a feeling im wrong ;)
]JR[
bowman1964
06-09-2003, 06:56 AM
Originally posted by ]JR[
Okay, forgive me if im wrong, im still a semi-noob at this phase change...
If you watercool the condensor subambeint, to say 0C, it will improve the temps a little but not by the difference of the delta between 0C and ambient.
To make it more effective, you need to remove some refridgerant and shorten the cap tube a bit, to lower the high side pressure, and the low side accordingly, yet still be able to condense the refridgerant due to the cooler condensor. That will give you the best results.
/me sits back and waits for bowman to blow me out of the sky cos i got a feeling im wrong ;)
]JR[
well shortening the cap tube will increase the refrigerant and increase the low side slightly .
but you are right that cooling the condensor will help in pressures.it will reduce the condensing pressure the lower the temp goes below ambient.this will in it self reduce the refrigerant flow to the evaperator.lower pressure in the condensor will not push the same amount of refirgerant down the capillary tube resulting in less heat removal.so we need to shorten the capillary tube to keep the watts of heat removed the same.
but it is a touchy thing to get the perfect balance between enough refrigerant to bring the evaperator down to super low temps ,and getting too much refrigerant flow that results in over flooding of the evaperator and a increase of suction side pressures.this making the evaperation point of the refrigerant rise.
testing and adjusting a evaperator is only possable under a heat load.so all adjustments have to be made on a fully loaded evaperator.i just recieved 2 130watt peltiers i am going to try to make a heat plate with, sometime this weekend.so i will have a more stable adjusting platform for myself when i adjust capillary tube systems.
but water cooling the condensor is the best form of condensor cooling.but sometimes it doesnt make enough of a differance to make it a effecient solution.
saaya
06-09-2003, 07:10 AM
watercooling the condenser helsp A LOT! and its really easy :)
Originally posted by saaya
watercooling the condenser helsp A LOT! and its really easy :)
What can you say, that I need to know? :toast:
saaya
06-10-2003, 01:27 AM
a friend of a friend... well some guy i know has a vapochill and when he showed me his system i was really surprised that the temps were not that low at all, 10-15°C i think. he wasnt happy with it either. since i already built some h20 setups for people i came up with the idear to cool the radiator with a h20 setup. he still had the pump from his old h20 system and some hoses.
i even thougt it would be funny to use a bong water system so we would cool vapochill --> water --> air :p but that bong would mean too much work with refilling it all the time and plants growing in there etc.
well we got a medium sized a bus radiator (not much bigger than a car radiator) that was about the size of the side of his case. cut some edges of and got rid of this ugly plastic stuff on the top so the hoses would go into the rad directly and it was done. the radiator of the vapochill unit was drowned in a plastic box.
the pump blows the water at the part where the radiator gets hottest, the beginning of it. his temps dropped a lot, he was running -°C dont know how much though and i dont have any pics... over a year ago, and havent seen him ever since. hes studdying in another city now.
basically all i can tell you what you need to take care of is a big radiator and a pump that can handle this big radiator (1000L/hour worked fine for this setup)
Thanx... :toast:
But did you take the condenser out of the case and exactly what did you do?
Cuz I got some ideas but don't know which one will be the easiest way...
saaya
06-10-2003, 03:33 AM
no, we didnt bend or cut the tubes at all, we just got some plastic box and cut 2 holes at the points where the tubes would go in and out, then cut a line from the holes to the top of the box so we could get the box around the radiator of the vapochill unit.
then we used some gum glue and silicon to close the cuts and around the tubes. then we glues the top of the box on it (has an opening a bit like the watertank from the cooling water in a car on it to refill water.
ah, before we glued the top on the bos we put the pump in there. its inside the box with the readiator (behind it if you look at the case from the front)
the silicon didnt glue too well, the gum glue i got works pretty well, but it needs about 3 days to be really dry. but then its absolutely waterproof, it doesnt get completely hard so all glued parts are still a bit moveable, so you can move the pc without beeing affraid of the glues parts to pop open like it did with the silicon.
you should look for a good combination of glue and plastic box. no idear what plastic this thing was made of, but the glue was "kövulfix" and it glues pretty much everything. well except for some sorts of plastic that need speical plastic glue.
Thanx again man :toast:
I'll try something water related for sure and will post the results ;)
saaya
06-10-2003, 03:59 PM
hey i just noticed you have the same fortron psu :D
is your 5v line @ 4.9-4.95 too or is it my mosfets running hot?
EDIT: oh well i have the 350W fortron still how are your 12v and 5v lines? or is your fortron psu not hooked to the system?
eagle101
06-11-2003, 01:26 AM
please help with taking side panels off prometeia,i tried but dont want to force anything seem like it does not want to move also chip-con is so strick on taking off panels
thanks
Originally posted by saaya
hey i just noticed you have the same fortron psu :D
is your 5v line @ 4.9-4.95 too or is it my mosfets running hot?
EDIT: oh well i have the 350W fortron still how are your 12v and 5v lines? or is your fortron psu not hooked to the system?
Well it's hooked, but the +5V is really low.... like 4.86V under load.... the +12V is very stable though.... AND my MOSFETs are running hot anyway.... :rolleyes:
For that I use the 400W Seasonic for the Vapochill system... then I get 4.95V under load....
Turbo
06-12-2003, 03:50 PM
The side panels are held by double-sided adhesive tape and the 4 screws on the corner. You may want to slide a flathead screwdriver or knife to seperate the panel from the body. I wouldn't suggest you pull the panel as it may bend the panels. Good luck
Originally posted by eagle101
please help with taking side panels off prometeia,i tried but dont want to force anything seem like it does not want to move also chip-con is so strick on taking off panels
thanks
can't wait for the winter to come & put that prommy outside when it's freezing =)
saaya
06-13-2003, 03:24 AM
yeah i oced my 1700 some more yesterday. i raised the voltage to 2v and saw the 5v line drop to 4.86!!! :(
once i got my h20 done ill probably raise the voltage and oc higher, ill need a good 5v line then... i think ill mod it once im done with the h20
Originally posted by bowman1964
but water cooling the condensor is the best form of condensor cooling.but sometimes it doesnt make enough of a differance to make it a effecient solution.
Can I ask one more Q, bowman?
I wanna know what could be wrong with my vapochill......
Long story short - I seem to not be able to get the vapo head to freeze below like -6-7C or -10C if I add another fan to the condenser....
The compresor is running really cold, I was told that there was some problem with the compresor and that it was regased...
without load I can't get it below -6-7C BUT with a 2.5GHz CPU the temp drop is like 3-4C, not more.... so under load I get something like -2C on the head....
What do you thing = What's not normal with all this? :confused: