x1950xt 512mb or 8800gts 320mb?

[WesM63]

I'm looking for a new fairly decent priced video card. I've narrowed it down to the x1950xt 512mb or the 8800gts 320mb. Which is a better card? (Roughly the same price) The x1950xt has the advantage to me because of VIVO feature. Yes the 8800 is DX10, but i don't care. There are not any DX10 games out now and prolly by the time there is, i won't have whatever card I decide to buy.

Then again, should I just say the hell with it and get the 8800gts 640mb? Althou, i would have to spend more money on a monitor or Tuner card for the video in.

Help!

[LuckyNV]

8800GTS because its faster, what size monitor/LCD are you buying though

[WesM63]

I have a 19" widescreen now, but may be going to a 24" Wide or 37" wide.

[kemo]

The GTS always faster except in Fear

[WesM63]

What GTS are we talking about 320mb or 640mb?

[kemo]

WesM63;2100226']What GTS are we talking about 320mb or 640mb?

320MB

Edit: i am considering a 320MB GTS also so after searching a little bit i found two nice reviews
here (http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/geforce_8800_gts_320mb_roundup/)and here (http://techreport.com/reviews/2007q1/geforce-8800gts-320mb/index.x?pg=1)

[RyderOCZ]

GTS 320...I love mine so far :D

[SaFrOuT]

GTS at least for the DX10 support

[WesM63]

WesM63;2099902']Yes the 8800 is DX10, but i don't care. There are not any DX10 games out now and prolly by the time there is, i won't have whatever card I decide to buy.

GTS at least for the DX10 support

Read above quote.

Thanks Ryder. I'll prolly go with the 8800gts 320mb.

[SaFrOuT]

WesM63;2100381']Read above quote.

Thanks Ryder. I'll prolly go with the 8800gts 320mb.



ah sorry for not reading

still nvidia IMHO is better

for better driver support and more games optimized for nvidia

[CedricFP]

for better driver support and more games optimized for nvidia

You do realise that most games aren't really "optimised" for particular graphics cards... and that many have been complaining about G80 driver support.

[apexracing]

The 8800GTS 320mb is a steal, it even out hammers the x1950xtx in a pinch. You'd be a fool not to get one.

[LagunaX]

A couple of reviews say that if you plan to game with larger than 24" or larger screens then you need the 640mb 8800 gts for the resolution/fps. For less than 24", the 320 should be fine - plus it overclocks well too.

[grudgelord]

The general consensus appears (based upon various and sundry reviews) to be that the 8800 GTS 320 offers the best "bang for the buck" at any price point, currently (somewhat subjective, I know). While the VIVO feature is nice that can always be added with another card if needed.

However, the benchmarks seem to recommend 640mb for resolutions above 1600 x 1200 (or 1680 x 1050 for widescreens). If you plan on going to a monitor size above 22" then you might want to plan accordingly as the native resolution of 23" and 24" monitors is 1920 x 1200. You definitely would want more than 320 to drive a 30+" monster at native. Where were you planning to get a 37"? The only 37" monitors I know of (admittedly of the top of my head) are actually HDTVs with rather limited resolution options compared to actual computer monitors.

And while you stated that DX10 support isn't important, as an FYI, I thought I'd add that it's expected (at least from what I've heard) that DX10 effects are likely to place significantly more demand on the card's memory resources whenever that happens.

As a last, I was considering the same two cards you are considering and I've decided to go with an 8800 GTS 320 (or maybe a 640 if the budget allows) due to the performance data I've seen. I considered holding out for an R600 since I've leaned toward ATI in the past, but frankly, I just want to get a damn card and be done with it for a while.

[Hicks]

for better driver support

Definatly not true.

[Martijn]

Definatly not true.

Ehh... Any arguments for that?


I'm an ATI person, but I would definitely get the 8800GTS. I am actually wondering why I didn't wait another month and got myself a 320GTS instead of my current X1950Pro... 320MB would be fine for 'ordinary' screens, but I surely recommend 640 for any high res gaming.

[SaFrOuT]

Definatly not true.



no my friend it is 100% true till AMD tune their drivers more and more

i have used 6600 - 7800gt- 7800gtx - 7900gt - 7900gs - 7600gt
and 9800pro- 9800xt - x800gto - x800pro - x1800xtx - x1900xtx and i am sure that nvidia's driver shows more stability and performance than ati

[Hicks]

no my friend it is 100% true till AMD tune their drivers more and more

i have used 6600 - 7800gt- 7800gtx - 7900gt - 7900gs - 7600gt
and 9800pro- 9800xt - x800gto - x800pro - x1800xtx - x1900xtx and i am sure that nvidia's driver shows more stability and performance than ati

You haven't even owned a G80? so how do you know? The drivers at the moment are pathetic.

ATI's Cats have been better for ages, 2 years id say.

I could count the amount of game problems i had with my X1800XT on one hand, and i had it well over a year. G80 has loads, and so did my 7950.

[Martijn]

Guys.... Just stop this utterly useless discussion. Someone is asking for help, not asking for some debate between 2 guys saying ATI/NVidia drivers are better... :stick:

[CedricFP]

And the level of driver support may inherently affect his decision, seeing as he is asking between an ATi card and an nVidia card. How can you say the quality of drivers is irrelevant to the topic at hand?

[AzraelDarkangel]

8800GTS/GTX still has problems with some games due to drivers I think. I would get something like:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131047
and wait till fall to see both ATI/AMD and Nvidia linup and see which one is more stable and better performing plus by that time they will both be out a few months, should have more issues ironed out and prices will be falling as they are competing with each other.

[eXceededgoku]

omg... this thread is beyond stupid...
"Should I get old generation Direct X 9 hardware or new generation - with a few oddities - direct x 10??"
Simply answer, WELL DUH!!!! Get the damn 8800GTS and feel stupid for even asking! And the fact that some of you are complaining about drivers are even more stupid, fact is they both play all games well even if the 8800 series has shocking drivers atm. Also the 8800 is soo cheap its not even funny.

EDIT BTW I'm an ATI fanboy.

[AzraelDarkangel]

omg... this thread is beyond stupid...
"Should I get old generation Direct X 9 hardware or new generation - with a few oddities - direct x 10??"
Simply answer, WELL DUH!!!! Get the damn 8800GTS and feel stupid for even asking! And the fact that some of you are complaining about drivers are even more stupid, fact is they both play all games well even if the 8800 series has shocking drivers atm. Also the 8800 is soo cheap its not even funny.

EDIT BTW I'm an ATI fanboy.

A few oddities? Most games work just fine but I have still never seen so many problems with other cards about people who can't play this or that game or problems/artifacts with such and such game etc. Also what's the hurry to jump to a new technology that's barely being used yet? Also prices will come down some after ATI comes out with their line to compete so then would be a better time to buy and they may have fewer or no problems playing all games. It would be wise to wait just a little bit unless money is not an issue.

[AzraelDarkangel]

Here you go, just a quick random sampling of problems with the 8800GTS from a quick Google search:

http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=30851
http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?p=2197354
http://www.spawnpoint.com/m_26281/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#26304
http://forums.filefront.com/es-problems-errors-help/295970-graphics-problem-8800gts-oblivion.html
http://forums.nvidia.com/lofiversion/index.php?t31678.html

Also found this:
http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.aspx?artno=391

Oblivion is one game that the 8800GTS has had problems with and one reason I'm not going to buy it. Maybe the latest drivers have fixed the problem, I don't know. I do know that I don't mind paying $200-250 for an X1900XT and waiting a few months or more to see how the next gen DX10 cards compare at that time. What you guys do is up to you, and somewhat dependent on what games you want to play at what resolutions. I might even wait a couple months for a next gen card and not buy the X1900XT at all.

[WesM63]

8800GTS/GTX still has problems with some games due to drivers I think. I would get something like:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131047
and wait till fall to see both ATI/AMD and Nvidia linup and see which one is more stable and better performing plus by that time they will both be out a few months, should have more issues ironed out and prices will be falling as they are competing with each other.

Thats actually the card I was thinking about getting.

The 37" monitor i'm thinking about buying is a LCD TV. 1920x1080.

[Lev]

Here you go, just a quick random sampling of problems with the 8800GTS from a quick Google search:

http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=30851
http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?p=2197354
http://www.spawnpoint.com/m_26281/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#26304
http://forums.filefront.com/es-problems-errors-help/295970-graphics-problem-8800gts-oblivion.html
http://forums.nvidia.com/lofiversion/index.php?t31678.html

Also found this:
http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.aspx?artno=391

Oblivion is one game that the 8800GTS has had problems with and one reason I'm not going to buy it. Maybe the latest drivers have fixed the problem, I don't know. I do know that I don't mind paying $200-250 for an X1900XT and waiting a few months or more to see how the next gen DX10 cards compare at that time. What you guys do is up to you, and somewhat dependent on what games you want to play at what resolutions. I might even wait a couple months for a next gen card and not buy the X1900XT at all.

i have the 640mb version and oblivion runs fine..... max quality qarl's 2gb texture pack with the more then almost everything you can see mod..

[Lev]

WesM63;2103616']Thats actually the card I was thinking about getting.

The 37" monitor i'm thinking about buying is a LCD TV. 1920x1080.

size does not matter, pixels do (you probably know this..)
and LCD tvs look kinda bad up close, personally - i would go with a 21ish non-widescreen monitor with the 320mb, imho it is too much of performance loss to go widescreen with the 320mb

[ownage]

Quake4

http://resources.vr-zone.com/Shamino/zotac88/17.jpg

http://resources.vr-zone.com/Shamino/zotac88/19.jpg

Half Life

http://resources.vr-zone.com/Shamino/zotac88/20.jpg

http://resources.vr-zone.com/Shamino/zotac88/21.jpg

Battlefield 2142

http://resources.vr-zone.com/Shamino/zotac88/23.jpg

http://resources.vr-zone.com/Shamino/zotac88/25.jpg

Compagnie of Heroes

http://resources.vr-zone.com/Shamino/zotac88/26.jpg

http://resources.vr-zone.com/Shamino/zotac88/28.jpg

So easy to choose if you want high resolutions, 88gts 320mb

[gznp]

Wow, I have seen a LOT in this thread:

1) The ATi drivers are generally crap, I've had 6 ATi cards and the CCC was always giving me issues.
2) The 8xxx nVIDIA drivers (NOT the BETA drivers) work fine with me in ALL the games presented in the links shown.
3) If you can wait a little bit, ATi claims that in 20 days the R600 will be launched. If this happens, you can have more choices ;)
4) If you can't wait, get the 8800GTS with 320MB RAM and o/c it :)

[ownage]

1) The ATi drivers are generally crap, I've had 6 ATi cards and the CCC was always giving me issues.

Eh, ATi drivers crap, heheh, i never had a problem with them.
The only driver problems i ever had was with nVidia cards, and its a fact the 8800series drivers are not perfect yet.
But if you dont want to use CCC, then use Ati Tray Tools.

I prefer ATI, but in this case the 88GTS 320mb is the better one.

I would wait for the R600 series, which sould be in stores within one or two monts.

[gznp]

I've had many stability issues. Many times, when installing a new driver I had errors popping out. The driver wouldn't install, so I had to revert to the older, which I was using before. Then I found out that the older didn't install either. Some times, when loading CCC just to see the temps, the CCC crashed. The Color Profiles didn't always work. The Game Profiles were also problematic - I loaded Live For Speed with 6xAA 16xAF and after closing it, all my games had the same settings - and of course the general profile was far from 6xAA 16xAF...

In many foras the ATi Catalyst Drivers thread is a HUGE one with 80% of the people reporting problems. I was so furious one day that the X1900XTX was lucky that I didn't use her as a boomerang.

On the other hand, the nVIDIA cards never gave me serious issues - and I have installed MANY beta drivers in the past.

And imagine that I should support ATi drivers because the guy in charge of the Drivers Department is from the same country as me...

Sorry for the large Off Topic, but I really felt relieved when I installed the ForceWare Drivers 10 days ago... :)

[Soulburner]

That's odd. After dozens (maybe even 100+) of ATI driver installs I've never had a single one give me problems, over several systems with different configurations and video cards.

[CedricFP]

ATi drivers never ever gave me a single problem either... But then again, nor did nVidia drivers...

I hate it when people try to pass of one brand of drivers as being "without a doubt" "better" than the other.

[Growly]

ATi drivers give me lots of problems... but I'm sure that's just the CCC. It pains me that they use the .NET framework. It pains me deeply. A mate of mine had a whole lot of issues with one of his cards once... it all came down to the drivers in the end (several thousand different versions).

Having said that, it's not something I'd recommend you base your decision on.

I just read an Anandtech review on 8800GTS 320MB cards (no doubt everyone else has already read it), and the resounding conclusion was that if you're not planning on use huge resolutions with lots of AA and AF, then go fo r the nVidia card. The XTX benefits from memory in these intensive operations, but you can't really expect the previous generation to even have a chance...

[WRC]

if you run high resolution the 320mb 8800 will not be enough, you're much better of waiting until ATI releases the r600 and see if the 8800gtx drops in price. You'll have a lot more options 2 weeks from now

[Starscream]

like everyone has said get the 8800gts 320mb
and if u can wait 20 days wait till ATI launches their stuff. even if the R600 cards arent as good as expected the chances r stil goot that the 8800 will dorp a bit in prices.

[WesM63]

I just picked up a 8800gts 320mb for now.

[Dynasty]

I was comparing this weekend my X1900XTX/7.3 Cat's vs. my
8800 gtx/97.92's with real in game image quality not looking at FPS
just image. I was quite disappointed with my 8800 gtx and found
new love for my 1900XTX with 7.3's, it really was that noticeable.
For running 3D benchies & sli and all yeah love sli/8800's but for
games, my X1900XTX held up very well for the price.


I would take the X1950XT 512mb anyday over GTS.
But if your looking for more fps its an different story.

[kemo]

I was comparing this weekend my X1900XTX/7.3 Cat's vs. my
8800 gtx/97.92's with real in game image quality not looking at FPS
just image. I was quite disappointed with my 8800 gtx and found
new love for my 1900XTX with 7.3's, it really was that noticeable.
For running 3D benchies & sli and all yeah love sli/8800's but for
games, my X1900XTX held up very well for the price.


I would take the X1950XT 512mb anyday over GTS.
But if your looking for more fps its an different story.
i thought the point of higher fps is to enable more details and effects ,,,, after than you can enhance the image quality

[gznp]

I was comparing this weekend my X1900XTX/7.3 Cat's vs. my
8800 gtx/97.92's with real in game image quality not looking at FPS
just image. I was quite disappointed with my 8800 gtx and found
new love for my 1900XTX with 7.3's, it really was that noticeable.
For running 3D benchies & sli and all yeah love sli/8800's but for
games, my X1900XTX held up very well for the price.


I would take the X1950XT 512mb anyday over GTS.
But if your looking for more fps its an different story.
Can you please post some screenies where the difference is noticeable? :)

[AzraelDarkangel]

I presume from what I've heard that certain aspects of image quality are determined by the software/drivers and how a particular card renders an image. Some things you can change but others are determined by the issues I just mentioned. At least that's what I understand.

[lowfat]

WesM63;2114159']I just picked up a 8800gts 320mb for now.

Same here. I am not going to wait another month or just for ATI again.

and BTW i've had nothing but problems with CCC & X850XT crossfire & P965. Vista won't work at all. Half the time XP with Cat 7.2s or 7.3s the crossfire option in CCC would not even show up.

[CedricFP]

Hmm, I am in a similar position. I am building my rig soon, and with no GFX, am struggling between an X1950XTX or GTS320 for the same price.

[vengance_01]

Wow. Get the EVGA 8800GTS 320. Then you have 90 days to step up to a 8900 card if they are better. The 8800 cards are a bit better and has Direct X 10 support. If you plan to get that 1080P LCD, your gonna need the 640mb version. The 320mb version is just not enough. But at 1680x1050, a 320mb version should be just fine:)

[vengance_01]

I was comparing this weekend my X1900XTX/7.3 Cat's vs. my
8800 gtx/97.92's with real in game image quality not looking at FPS
just image. I was quite disappointed with my 8800 gtx and found
new love for my 1900XTX with 7.3's, it really was that noticeable.
For running 3D benchies & sli and all yeah love sli/8800's but for
games, my X1900XTX held up very well for the price.


I would take the X1950XT 512mb anyday over GTS.
But if your looking for more fps its an different story. Hum not sure what you are seeing, but IQ is now the same. There is no difference. Mabey a driver issue. But the 8800 will provide better IQ with better FPS.

[[XC] gomeler]

DX10, enough said.
8800GTS 640MB edition would be solid for the next year or so, no sense buying a DX9 card and trying to dump it in 2-3 months as DX10 games become prevalent.

[LyP0]

same dilemma over here. i game at 2560x1600 and over here the 88gts320 is 299 euro's and i can get a x1950gt 512 for only 144 euro's. sure the 88 is dx10 capable but will it be able to run those games at that reso ? if it cant propperly handle dx10 at that reso i'm gonna but the ati

[AzraelDarkangel]

gomeler;2119567']DX10, enough said.
8800GTS 640MB edition would be solid for the next year or so, no sense buying a DX9 card and trying to dump it in 2-3 months as DX10 games become prevalent.

From what I understand we won't see much of anything in the way of DX10 games till late 2007 or 2008 most likely. Crysis maybe sometime this summer, UT3 (UT2007) not till fall or later, same thing with Alan Wake. Hellgate: London not till late summer or fall etc. Most places are not even willing to post an official release date because the scheduled release date keeps getting pushed back. I think your looking at more like 6-8 months before DX10 games become "prevelant". Graphics cards will change alot in that time and prices for DX10 cards will come way down. In 6mo the cards that are out or coming out will make the 8800GTX performance fairly mediocre by comparison.

At least wait a month or two for R600XTX/2900XTX cards to come out and prices will come down alot.

[Neova]

same dilemma over here. i game at 2560x1600 and over here the 88gts320 is 299 euro's and i can get a x1950gt 512 for only 144 euro's. sure the 88 is dx10 capable but will it be able to run those games at that reso ? if it cant propperly handle dx10 at that reso i'm gonna but the ati

In your case, you have no choice but to go 8800 GTS 640 or better. Your native resolution with 16AF and 4x AA would choke the on the GTS 320 due to lack of graphics memory and a single X1950XT 512 might not have enough power for smooth constant frame rates.

You'll just get frustrated with the FPS dips. Maybe not now, but in 6 months when more high definition games come out, it will.

I would wait for R600 and the 8900 to launch first, really soon now supposedly. This will force a small price drop and hopefully make the 8800 GTS 640 affordable. If one is not enough, you can upgrade to SLI later.

Or just take the plunge on the 8900 GTS/GTX or R600.

For guys with LESS than 1600x1200 res monitors, a 8800 GTS 320 may be enough, maybe SLI, but I would still wait for the price drop from the new GPU launches.

[WesM63]

Well at 1440x900 I can run C&C 3 maxed out. However, i'm going up to a 21" widescreen with a rez of 1680x1050, so we'll see how it does.

[gznp]

CnC 3 Maxxed @ 1680*1050 here. This engine is light - STALKER on the other hand...:D

[WesM63]

CnC 3 Maxxed @ 1680*1050 here. This engine is light - STALKER on the other hand...:D

I havn't tried very hard, but i'm not able to get Stalker to work. It just hangs on the loading screen. It didn't do that with my old card, just the 8800.

[GloryField]

I've had many stability issues. Many times, when installing a new driver I had errors popping out. The driver wouldn't install, so I had to revert to the older, which I was using before. Then I found out that the older didn't install either. Some times, when loading CCC just to see the temps, the CCC crashed. The Color Profiles didn't always work. The Game Profiles were also problematic - I loaded Live For Speed with 6xAA 16xAF and after closing it, all my games had the same settings - and of course the general profile was far from 6xAA 16xAF...

In many foras the ATi Catalyst Drivers thread is a HUGE one with 80% of the people reporting problems. I was so furious one day that the X1900XTX was lucky that I didn't use her as a boomerang.

On the other hand, the nVIDIA cards never gave me serious issues - and I have installed MANY beta drivers in the past.

And imagine that I should support ATi drivers because the guy in charge of the Drivers Department is from the same country as me...

Sorry for the large Off Topic, but I really felt relieved when I installed the ForceWare Drivers 10 days ago... :)


QFT. I've used ATI Drivers since I had my 9500 Pro the month it was launched. Right now I'm on a 9700 Pro. I've never had a problem. For the first year I had to use DriverCleaner, but since the original "Catalyst" was introduced, like 3 years ago, the uninstall function works just fine without external programs.

Uninstall -> Reboot -> Install new driver -> reboot

Never once had a problem, and I do this every month.

If you are really having trouble with CCC, this website always publishes the ATI Driver with CP instead of CCC.
http://www.ngohq.com/home.php

I used to use the Driver + CP, until CCC got alot faster now. It's not a problem on ram anymore. (9.5 meg right now, compared to 33 meg before)

[GloryField]

Well at 1440x900 I can run C&C 3 maxed out. However, i'm going up to a 21" widescreen with a rez of 1680x1050, so we'll see how it does.

If your standard is C&C 3, you should be fine, it's even less demanding than C&C Generals, due to better optimization.

I'm C&C 3 at 1680x1050, with low-medium details, on a 9700 pro with Athlon Barton 2500+, 768 Ram, Windows XP.

My framerates are more than playable, I can micro just as well as in Warcraft III, my APM is about 140 in C&C 3.

[Neova]

If your standard is C&C 3, you should be fine, it's even less demanding than C&C Generals, due to better optimization.

I'm C&C 3 at 1680x1050, with low-medium details, on a 9700 pro with Athlon Barton 2500+, 768 Ram, Windows XP.

My framerates are more than playable, I can micro just as well as in Warcraft III, my APM is about 140 in C&C 3.

I believe C&C is more CPU bound than GPU. The AI needs a fast cpu core.

If your standard will be Crysis or is Oblivion, you'll know you need the fastest cpu and GPU with a lot of video ram for constant smooth performance, regardless of your resolution. I believe the GDC demo of crysis showed it at ~ 30-40 FPS but it was supposedly on 8800 GTX SLI with a fairly fast C2D cpu.

Any of those HD content games at over 1600x1200 or 1920x1080 (~ 2Megaxpixels) will choke with mid range equipment at max settings.

[CandymanCan]

no my friend it is 100% true till AMD tune their drivers more and more

i have used 6600 - 7800gt- 7800gtx - 7900gt - 7900gs - 7600gt
and 9800pro- 9800xt - x800gto - x800pro - x1800xtx - x1900xtx and i am sure that nvidia's driver shows more stability and performance than ati


Iv owned a Radeon 7200, 9700prox4.

Nividia iv owned a Geforce tnt, Geforce 3 ti 200, Geforce 4 ti4600, Geforce 6800GT, and a Geforce 8800GTS.

I relise i havent owned many ATI cards but IMO ATI has better stability and driver support then Nvidia has. Every card i own from nvidia asside from the GF3 has always had driver problems. Specially back when the ti4600 was old and 9700pro came out nvidia started to cheat on there drivers turning some graphics off and gamesl ook like crap just to get more fps. My 6800GT was defective the first models had a broken video processor on them i was pretty pissed about that not to mention the shimmering problems the drivers had on LOD.

The 8800GTS i have now seems to be ok tho. Why stay with nvidia you ask ? Because evertime i upgrade it seems nvidia always has the newer and better card out asside from cpu's i go with whats faster on video cards

[Vric]

C&C 3 at 1680x1050 run maxed on my 7600GT. Nothing gained with my 8800gts (which crash twice a day)

[WesM63]

I wouldn't say its my standard, just the newest game I have.

[Massive]

I don't know about you guys.
I have tried nvidia 6800XT,7600GT,7900GT,7900TO, and I still found the ATI series shows a better quality in gaming and desktop, that's why I stick with my x1800.
I'm not ATI fan boy, I just searching for which suit my eyes best.
If you ask me, I'll wait for ATI to launch its new product which I'm sure will be better then the 8800GTS.
If you're looking for benchmarking the nvidia still offer the best value, but if you're looking for overall picture quality the ATI would be a better option. IMHO

Btw my description is relative to everyone as I explain them based on my experience and my eyes :D

[eXceededgoku]

picture quality on the 8x00 series is up to X1000 series standards, expect the HD 2x00 series to beat them both however