I am roadkill

[littleowl]

well alucasa has made it to me and is about to make me road kill!! I feel so violated!

[SparkyJJO]

Looks like I found littleowl by the roadside :(

http://doctorcliff.com/studio/gallery/owl.jpg

[[XC] mysticmerlin]

Yet another A train and it is not the Texas tinman this time :( Good job alucasa :toast: Sry littleowl :D

[littleowl]

I just wanted to cry!! I am losing my 31 spot again!! after all the work I did to get it back!

[alucasa]

Looks like I found littleowl by the roadside :(

http://doctorcliff.com/studio/gallery/owl.jpg

I didn't do anything, I swear. It wasn't my fault. :rolleyes:

[Duh]

chillax, as nickS likes to say, sh happens as I like to say to my parents ( and my mom stares at me kind of wtf is he saying, as she speaks Spanish only )


EDIT: when I tried to input sh fully I kind of get a multiple banana

[littleowl]

:woot: I held you off for another day alucasa! :p:

[Movieman]

littleowl;2094925']:woot: I held you off for another day alucasa! :p:

like getting that call at 11:58Pm that the governor has decided that you'll see another sunrise? But only one more!:rofl:

[littleowl]

nope not really because I wouldn't see it if it were not for them only updating 1 time a day! LOL

edit: heck I only held him by 9328 points! :p:

[alucasa]

Hard to find Kill-a-watt in Canada. But I will get a hold of it eventually and find out how much power this quad FX is using.

[Movieman]

Hard to find Kill-a-watt in Canada. But I will get a hold of it eventually and find out how much power this quad FX is using.

Speaking of making MM into roadkill, how are the woodcrests doing and what speed do you have them at?

[alucasa]

It is doing average 7500 points per day on stock.
Anything I've OCed for WCG, I've returned them to original speed. I need to save power. But I never bothered OCing the woodcrests in the first place. I needed to test it long enough to prove that it is a stable build.

[littleowl]

now that is just Bull!!! :D

[littleowl]

well start right now and same some power! shut them all down so I don't lose my spot! LOL

[Movieman]

It is doing average 7500 points per day on stock.
Anything I've OCed for WCG, I've returned them to original speed. I need to save power. But I never bothered OCing the woodcrests in the first place. I needed to test it long enough to prove that it is a stable build.

Sounds good.
I just made some inquiries into finding some sossamans.
Been reading about them and the 2000's are supposed to be 20% better than my DX3600's!:eek:
they are 31w versus my 110w xeons.
That's a win-win from my viewpoint.
Board and 2 chips at retail add up to app $1300.00
Uses DDR2-400 ECC.
May not be a killer for points, maybe 6000 a day max, but if I can do 6000 points with 2-32w chips thats a long term win.

[alucasa]

My merom rig does slightly more points than E6400 on stock. (1.8 ghz merom vs 1.8x conroe = 4500 points vs 4000)

Good news, really.

Brisbane is ... not doing so good. I think I will turn it off when I add few more yonah/merom rigs.

[[XC] gomeler]

Sossaman ftw! Imagine getting some low-speeds ones, 1.8 maybe? Clock them to 2.4 or so and for the power consumption of an E6600 you are getting someting around the performance of a Q6600. Too bad the outright cost is nuts.

[serialk11r]

lol, this is the good thing about just starting, and having only 1 machine running 1/3 of the time. I'm quietly crawling up the 4th page of rankings ;)

[[XC] Jaco]

WHat's the problem with the Brisbane?

[alucasa]

Low points, not worth the power it's eating. 35 watt Merom is doing much better.

[Movieman]

I mentioned the sossaman idea to a friend last night and his response made me think in another direction.
His logic was why build a limited 4 core system when for close to the same money and elec cost I could go with one of the new 40w clovertowns?
Boards are the same cost, cpu's will be damned close and 40w versus 31w for the difference is a definate winner..
The only major cost difference is in the memory, FBDimms versus regular ECC DDR2.

[alucasa]

Clover is a little too expensive really, and so is Ssossaman.

But I suppose it's worth a shot.

How much is the lowest-end LV clover?

[meshmesh]

To be honest alucasa, with the new Q6600 Intel pricing dropping down soon to $266, I am not able to justify building dual quad core server rigs for crunching any more. Here is how I see it now:

If you build a cruncher using standard available quads, say a dual 5355, Oced to 356x8 (2.85 Ghz) it will cost $3750 (cpus 2x$1200 + MB $400 + RAM $550 + case $100 + PSU $150 + HD $50 + HS 2x$50).

If you build a cruncher using Q6600, mildly OCed to 356x9 (3.2 Ghz) and with reaonable Vcore (sub 1.4 V), it will cost $940 (cpu 275 + MB 180 + RAM 175 + case $100 + PSU $100 + HD $50 + $60 HS).

So given the choice:

One dual quadcore system $3750, daily output 22K
Four Q6600 systems $3760, daily output 50K

The disparity is too big.

[Movieman]

To be honest alucasa, with the new Q6600 Intel pricing dropping down soon to $266, I am not able to justify building dual quad core server rigs for crunching any more. Here is how I see it now:

If you build a cruncher using standard available quads, say a dual 5355, Oced to 356x8 (2.85 Ghz) it will cost $3750 (cpus 2x$1200 + MB $400 + RAM $550 + case $100 + PSU $150 + HD $50 + HS 2x$50).

If you build a cruncher using Q6600, mildly OCed to 356x9 (3.2 Ghz) and with reaonable Vcore (sub 1.4 V), it will cost $940 (cpu 275 + MB 180 + RAM 175 + case $100 + PSU $100 + HD $50 + $60 HS).

So given the choice:

One dual quadcore system $3750, daily output 22K
Four Q6600 systems $3760, daily output 50K

The disparity is too big.

I agree on the math but what is the wattage of the Q6600 at 3200?
My orginal thinking was if I could build one machine that would output more than my DX3600 and DX2400 combined(7500PPD) and use 1/2 the elec then it was a winner.
The question now is what is the best choice to do that.
The dual sossaman is supposed to be 20% better than my DX3600 with 2-31w cpu's versus the DX's 2-110w cpu's
I think the DX2400 is 85w cpu's(Prestonia's)
A dual clover with the new 40w cpu's at 1600 would definately beat the elec usage of both DX's and probably do 10k?? a day or better.
If the Q6600 at 3200 or even 3000 is under 80w then it is definately the way to go both from dollar cost and elec usage.

[alucasa]

There is something you are missing or not understanding about my position.

I am not after how much points a rig or a series of rigs will generate. My goal is to reduce my energy bill.

OCing dramatically increases power usage. So, the option is out of window.

Besides, I am after low voltage cpu, not average cpu.

To be honest alucasa, with the new Q6600 Intel pricing dropping down soon to $266, I am not able to justify building dual quad core server rigs for crunching any more. Here is how I see it now:

If you build a cruncher using standard available quads, say a dual 5355, Oced to 356x8 (2.85 Ghz) it will cost $3750 (cpus 2x$1200 + MB $400 + RAM $550 + case $100 + PSU $150 + HD $50 + HS 2x$50).

If you build a cruncher using Q6600, mildly OCed to 356x9 (3.2 Ghz) and with reaonable Vcore (sub 1.4 V), it will cost $940 (cpu 275 + MB 180 + RAM 175 + case $100 + PSU $100 + HD $50 + $60 HS).

So given the choice:

One dual quadcore system $3750, daily output 22K
Four Q6600 systems $3760, daily output 50K

The disparity is too big.

[meshmesh]

I assume these are the ones movieman are refering to (info (http://www.nforcershq.com/article7590.html)):

Intel is introducing two low-voltage processors: the Quad-Core Intel Xeon processor L5320 and L5310. The new 50-watt quad-core processors operate at 1.86 GHz and 1.60 GHz, respectively, feature a unique 8 megabytes (MB) of on die cache for faster memory data communication and run on dedicated 1066 MHz front side buses. In 1,000 unit quantities the L5320 is priced at $519 and the L5310 at $455.

@alucasa: Ok, so if I read between the lines, you maybe intend to replace one or more power hungry rigs with more economical one. I understand where you are coming from and agree that TCO is of primary concern. In case you haven't guessed, I am also trying to plan ahead. So please allow me to think aload here.

Power consumption:
Estimating the whole rig power draw is a bit difficult. But it may be possible to do a rough estimate from the web review figures:

Given that a dual quadcore 5345 consumes 340 Watt off the socket, a dual L5320 would consume 340 - 2 x (80-50) / 0.9 / 0.85 = ~260 Watts
Given that an E6600 consumes 155 Watt off the socket, a Q6600 stock would consume 155 + (105-65) / 0.9 / 0.85 = ~207 Watts

So given the above rough estimate, my guess would be that a pair of Q6600 rigs would consume ~155 Watt more than a L5320 system.
Assuming unit cost of electricity $0.15/kWh (your milage will vary), the Q6600 pair would cost ~ $611 more over three years of crunching compared to a L5320 rig.

A cruncher using dual L5320, 266x7 (1.83 Ghz) will cost $2300 (cpus 2x$525 + MB $400 + RAM $550 + case $100 + PSU $150 + HD $50).
A cruncher using Q6600, 266x9 (2.4 Ghz) will cost $880 (cpu 275 + MB 180 + RAM 175 + case $100 + PSU $100 + HD $50).

So:

One dual quadcore system $2300, daily output 14K
Two Q6600 systems $2371 (included added power cost), daily output 18.3K

It looks to be a case of pay now or pay latter situation. That would be a close call, and I guess other factors may come into play (preference, space, etc...)

[alucasa]

Huh? Why do you keep comparing xeon with conroe?

I am comparing Yonah/merom with conroe.

[[XC] hipno650]

oh no!!! that means hes gaining on me fast!!! it time to get all of my rigs back online. i leave for a little while and look what happens.

[SparkyJJO]

You should keep your rigs online all the time hipno, not shut them off :nono:

[[XC] hipno650]

yes i would but the whole family was gone for a while and with no one home the risk of some machines and the psu's i have was a bit to great. but some stayed on that were not here. but im back and i have more rigs to add the the pile. :D

[SparkyJJO]

Risk of the machines? Meh sure, I run mine in cardboard boxes with el cheapo PSUs all weekend when I'm not around :D

[meshmesh]

Huh? Why do you keep comparing xeon with conroe?

I am comparing Yonah/merom with conroe.

I am totally lost now. All these names, and don't know which is which.

Are you saying that you want to replace your C2D with yonah? Isn't this same thing but for notebooks?

Ok, I better zip it then..:)

[alucasa]

I am totally lost now. All these names, and don't know which is which.

Are you saying that you want to replace your C2D with yonah? Isn't this same thing but for notebooks?

Ok, I better zip it then..:)

Yonah is known as Core duo. 35watt dual-core, pre-conroe chip for mobile.

Merom is core 2 duo, 35watt dual-core with 64bit and is conroe's counterpart.

A rig built with those with mini-itx (945GM chipset) uses 50watt for a whole rig and does around 4500 points per day.

[meshmesh]

Thanks.

Yonah is known as Core duo. 35watt dual-core, pre-conroe chip for mobile.

Merom is core 2 duo, 35watt dual-core with 64bit and is conroe's counterpart.

A rig built with those with mini-itx (945GM chipset) uses 50watt for a whole rig and does around 4500 points per day.

Ok, found what you are talking about:
motherboard like these (http://www.logicsupply.com/product_info.php?products_id=552) with cpu like these (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819111302). I think that the T7xxx are the same that are used in notebooks, if I am not mistaken. Wow. Check the size of that motherboard.

Now if it produces 4500 per day then it is nearly the same as my AMD X2 OCed @2.6 GHz. But mine consumes 250 Watts and sits in a full tower case with 3 120 x 38mm case fans !

This is a very nice concept and worth digging into. From first looks it is a whole different direction than what I was talking about. You can build a cruncher with even compact flash card directly on the MB, and a very small power supply like these (http://www.logicsupply.com/product_info.php/products_id/596). At 35W, it would only need a very small fan for cooling, probably no sound at all?

So what are you plannig to do, if you don't mind me asking? Add one of these every while and maybe build them in a small rack (like a CD holder I imagine?) Can see the potential now.

Anyone else knows about this idea?

[alucasa]

I already have an example that has been crunching for few months.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=121838
That was build on a 90 watt psu and it worked with a Gefroce 7600GT.

I plan to build them in 1U or 2U with little or zero active cooling.

[syne_24]

Hard to find Kill-a-watt in Canada. But I will get a hold of it eventually and find out how much power this quad FX is using.


http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=3697485

I'm kinda curious how much power quad fx is pulling too. ;)

[[XC] hipno650]

Risk of the machines? Meh sure, I run mine in cardboard boxes with el cheapo PSUs all weekend when I'm not around :D

well that and risk to my house. lol. when one of the psu catches fire and burns down the house i won't have any rig left. or money or anything.

[SparkyJJO]

hipno650;2097235']well that and risk to my house. lol. when one of the psu catches fire and burns down the house i won't have any rig left. or money or anything.

Good quality PSUs + good wiring and circuit breakers = pretty much safe there.

Maybe build a concrete bunker in your backyard :D :D

[meshmesh]

I already have an example that has been crunching for few months.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=121838
That was build on a 90 watt psu and it worked with a Gefroce 7600GT.
Thank you for that nice thread. I sort of missed it.

I plan to build them in 1U or 2U with little or zero active cooling.
Then you may be interested in this 2 in 1U Travla C147 (http://www.mini-itx.com/store/?c=33#c147) case or something like it.

Also, came upon this (http://ainkaboot.co.uk/octimod.php) local company that puts eight of them together in one enclosure using a blade like concept.

There appears to be lots of potential in this platform.

[alucasa]

Then you may be interested in this 2 in 1U Travla C147 (http://www.mini-itx.com/store/?c=33#c147) case or something like it.


Travla overcharges way too much. I am just going to get standard inexpensive 1u or 2u chassis which cost around 60 USD. Standard cases do accept mini-itx. So, they will work.

[[XC] hipno650]

Good quality PSUs + good wiring and circuit breakers = pretty much safe there.

Maybe build a concrete bunker in your backyard :D :D

well im working on that. my older rigs run junk psu's and some of my newer ones run questionable ones but i hope to change that soon once i go quads ill be getting all good ones. oh and i think all (well most my rig in sig is different) my rigs at home are running off of one power outlet:D on extension bars :D and the bunker thats not completely operational yet:D

[jspace]

hipno650;2098063']well im working on that. my older rigs run junk psu's and some of my newer ones run questionable ones but i hope to change that soon once i go quads ill be getting all good ones. oh and i think all (well most my rig in sig is different) my rigs at home are running off of one power outlet:D on extension bars :D and the bunker thats not completely operational yet:D

I don't think thats entirely safe. Maybe you should try to spread them around the house some. I won't plug any more 24/7 PCs in my room. I have 4 outlets and 16 things plugged in. Good thing it's a 20A circuit:D Well, maybe one more...

[[XC] hipno650]

of course it's not but this is the only space i have for them noise heat and network wise. but we have no had anything blow up yet.

[SparkyJJO]

I was running all my rigs off one circuit in my dorm room but I was getting nervous - not that I'd damage anything but that I'd pop a breaker and have to sheepishly ask my RA to get the breaker turned back on :p: Everything in my room is on one circuit - fridge, microwave, PCs (most of the ones in my sig were for a long time).... When I went to add yet another system I got to wondering how close I was to the load limit of the room, I didn't want to go to use the microwave one day and pop the breaker.

There is one outlet in my room that is on a different circuit - it is near the sink. It is on a circuit shared by other rooms and their nearby sink outlets, so I tapped off that with a thick extension cord and am running a few systems off that. I am only running a couple from there since I don't want that circuit to trip if the girls in the other rooms decide to turn on their hairdryers all at once ;)

I'm sure that if they had power meters per room mine would be spinning much faster than most :D