65nm 3500+ WaterCooled actions...

[Lightman]

Hi everyone!

Tonight I want to play a bit with my new rev. G1 3500+ CPU.
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I hope my medicore mobo will stand up to this task (MSI K9N Ultra 2F).
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Memory seems to come form very good family (D9GMH are used on 1066MHz DIMMS rated 2.1V and 800MHz 4-4-4-12 Crucial Ballistix rated 2.2V :) ). I've paid only around $70.00 per 1GB.
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Now it's time for some fun with screwdriver so I will be back in few hours. Please post some Benchmark propositions and keep in mind that I'm using XP Pro x64 edition so no native 32bit comparision possible.

[Bootup05]

Double images? :confused:
Nice Camera & shots BTW:cool:
that mem looks nice, is it OEM? or did you take the heatspreaders off?

EDIT: Ah right, Crucial :D

[hstuehmeyer2000]

all of your other parts are nice, why get a neo-f?

[funnyperson1]

Nice man, where'd you get those Crucial sticks for that price?

Can't wait to see the results.

The motherboard shouldn't be a huge deal with the 11x multi, should be good enough to hit 3ghz+.

[triple_A]

i'm really curious to see what these chips can do :)

[Duh]

what cam did you use? i am too lazy to see the excif

[Lightman]

Sorry for long delay but I hit several walls:
1. My waterblock is not good for AM2 :mad: , but luckily I had my 5 years old mega block for Athlon XP which fit perfectly in AM2 frame :).
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2. My MSI can't recognize 65nm CPU :( . I need 90nm chip to flash this bloody mobo to latest BIOS. Again I'm lucky because in my car boot is complete X2 3800+ system so I will go and get that one now :D !

Some answers to your questions:

@Duh My camera is a normal Kodak Z-740 5Mpx ;) Very good for its price!
@Funnyperson1 http://www.dabs4work.com/productview.aspx?QuickLinx=3R5L
hstuehmeyer2000 Because I had low budget for my client computer.
Bootup05Double images are because if you add them to xtremesystems server they will be shown below your post (no option to disable this :slapass: )

[VVJ]

Lightman, don't forget to check your processor with CBId! ;-) Good luck!

[high5]

Double images are because if you add them to xtremesystems server they will be shown below your post (no option to disable this :slapass: )
Nope. They wouldn't be doubled if you inserted them properly:

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[Lightman]

Nope. They wouldn't be doubled if you inserted them properly:

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I own you :toast: !!

Thanks for TIP!

[high5]

I own you :toast: !!

Thanks for TIP!
No problemo. :up:

Now get to work and post some stuff! :D

[Lightman]

Finally up and running (on air for now) :banana:

Default screens:) :
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Now I will try to OC a bit and put water on it!

[VVJ]

Lightman
Oh! I very much appreciate you for using CBId! Have you tried to change a HT multiplier? According to the report your CPU supports 1000 MHz HTL speed, but a current HTL frequency is 800 MHz. BTW, You have a really good CPU ;-)

[Lightman]

Lightman
Oh! I very much appreciate you for using CBId! Have you tried to change a HT multiplier? According to the report your CPU supports 1000 MHz HTL speed, but a current HTL frequency is 800 MHz. BTW, You have a really good CPU ;-)

Great pice of soft :toast:
Yes I set HTT to 800MT in BIOS.

I found some interesting thing about this MSI mobo. Chceck this out:
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As you can see CBId (and many others like SiSoftSandra/ScienceMark2/etc) is showing CPU Freq 2200MHz, but other half of diagnostic software (cpu-z/PC Wizard/Everest/CrystalCPUID) is showing 2750MHz set in Windows using nTune. Any ideas?? Besides Cinebench test and SuperPI are showing nice speedup compared to stock but SiSoft is producing results exactly same as for 2200MHz stock system:confused: .
This MSI mobo is wired, but I'm absolutely happy with memory I bought - 916MHz @2.1V and that's not the end:D !

BTW screen abowe is at stock Volts and CPU-Z is showing correct value (set in BIOS 1.35V, MB is giving 1,32V).

[Lightman]

@|JACK- - heh almost same as mine :D have a look:
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From Bios I have wired kind of wall @ 240+ HTT..

Suicide shots around 3.15GHz@1.52V!! Now I will push 1.6V and we see what will happend ;) .
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EDIT: I tryed 1.62V but it not improved OCing at all! 3.2GHz for 5 seconds and reboot :(

[akaBruno]

Let it ride for a couple o' days and hit it again. I'm no big burn in fan. I just push the V and use them as I normally would to do a slow burn. THEN HIT IT!

[hstuehmeyer2000]

maybe you should find the max fsb of you motherboard

[Lightman]

I overcome low HTT from BIOS issue. ?this mobo hates average HTT clocks and to boot up over 240HTT I lowered divider to 2x (400MHz):slapass: !!!! This allowed me to up HTT in BIOS up to 260MHz. :slap: MSI.

On the other hand I noticed that this mobo doesn't have PCI lock!! That is the reason that I can't clock it stable over 3030MHz :( . Around 2950MHz my wi-fi pci card is dissapearing because of PCI clocked @44MHz!!

Now it's time for some SS:

Memory is GREAT as for it's price, 4-4-4-12-15 Cr2@856MHz easy@2.1V (I didn't try lower volts because chips are very cool on DIMM :D )
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At this clock system is unstable for any longer 3D actions due to high PCI clock but SuperPi don't care about that :p: .
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Just for the record I did SuperPi run with 4-4-4-12-15 Cr2 timing and get 30.7Sec. @3000MHz but forgot to take a pic. Also when I lowered HTT divider to 2x SuperPi greatly slows down (about 7 seconds longer for 1M@3000MHz):stick: .

Enjoy!

[triple_A]

too bad there isn't a pci lock on it...

my guess is it would be a significant amount of seconds faster when @ dual channel :)

BTW nice mem :woot:

[Lightman]

too bad there isn't a pci lock on it...

my guess is it would be a significant amount of seconds faster when @ dual channel :)

BTW nice mem :woot:
HTT is limiting SuperPi badly...
but mem is VERY NICE:D

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@2.2v ;)

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again PCI limiting me :p: mayby i should tighten timings a bit more??:D

And some good old 3D Mark2001 :cool:
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I focused on high memory speeds rather than CPU and I think more can be done with that. BTW some specs X800RX(R480BiosMod, 8p,6v), Cat.7.2/XP x64.

[VVJ]

Lightman:
As you can see CBId (and many others like SiSoftSandra/ScienceMark2/etc) is showing CPU Freq 2200MHz, but other half of diagnostic software (cpu-z/PC Wizard/Everest/CrystalCPUID) is showing 2750MHz set in Windows using nTune. Any ideas??
Maybe I missed something out, but could you tell me please, what version of Windows do you use? I suspect that lack may happen, but it is specific for Windows x64 family only. BTW, does CBId allow you to change the HT multiplier (the Work Frequencies list box under the Controller tab)?

[Lightman]

Lightman:

Maybe I missed something out, but could you tell me please, what version of Windows do you use? I suspect that lack may happen, but it is specific for Windows x64 family only. BTW, does CBId allow you to change the HT multiplier (the Work Frequencies list box under the Controller tab)?

I'm using Windows XP Pro x64 SP1.
Yes your software works flawlessly :toast: . I can change HTT/vCore/memory timings/FID/...!

[VVJ]

Lightman:
I'm using Windows XP Pro x64 SP1.
Bingo! I was right :) That problem really happens in Windows x64 and is related to the TSC (Time Stamp Counter) correction, and I am about to fix the lack.
Yes your software works flawlessly. I can change HTT/vCore/memory timings/FID/...!
Oh, very good! Thanks for the feedback, Lightman! :toast:

[Lightman]

VVJ let me know when you update CBId for XP x64. I would like to test it straight away! ;)

[VVJ]

Lightman, check a new version of CBId 8.21 (http://cbid.amdclub.ru/files/cbid82b2.zip). I have improved a CPU clock frequency measurement for Windows XP x64 OS. Now, when a CPU clock ratio is changed the CPU clock frequency is changed respectively and reported by CBId properly.

[AMD-me]

Those SPi times are slow. My 2.8ghz 3000+ does 30.21s.

[funkflix]

Those SPi times are slow. My 2.8ghz 3000+ does 30.21s.

65nm + DDR2 isn't the best for SuperPI. ;)

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=135063

Reached 28.984s, 3000MHz with the 3500+ plus DDR2 and 26.812s with Venice 3000+ 3106MHz.

@Lightman

Not the best clockers, but fun to play with that stuff! :toast:

[Lightman]

@VVJ
Many thanks for quick update :toast:
It is working much better now but still I found something :p:

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On this pic top CBIds are from left:new beta, older version, new Beta and lower one is new again. When I opened first new CBId it showed wrong clock (2933) but another instance showed correct one??:confused:

@funkflix and AMD-me
You need to keep in mind I'm on single channel at the moment and 64bit version of Windows ;). My best time @3GHz was 30.17 for 1M SuperPi (pic above:rolleyes: ). Also I found that when my 250GB USB2 HDD is connected and running SuperPi 1M@3Ghz takes >40 seconds!! This is some sort of bug with this mobo.

@funkflix
Yes, great fun to play with G1 revision :toast:

[VVJ]

Lightman, well, it seems there is a lack in measurement. I think it is better to check a dynamic CPU frequency at the Mobility tab. Nonetheless, I will think something out to fix that. Thank you for the feedback, Lightman!

[Lightman]

@VVJ
New version is reporting wrong clocks consistently but I forgot to mention that in meantime I upgraded Windows from SP1 to SP2 and it changed something. Now I can't OC using ClockGen!! nVidia Control Panel is working fine (but only to 250HTT :mad: ). Luckly I overcome HTT clocking issue from BIOS as you can see :) . Spread Spectrum was causing that problem:p: .

Small update with higher HTT/memory and lower multiplier. Nice gains in 3D tests and SuperPi. Also latency is getting extremely low :woot: .


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All other settings like GFX Card clocks SAME as on previous tests!

[high5]

Lightman,

Your PCI lock seems operational now, what was the problem?

[Lightman]

Lightman,

Your PCI lock seems operational now, what was the problem?

As I said above Spread Spectrum was enabled. This option is well hidden in MSI BIOS :) . Besides most motherboards switch it off automatically when OCing but not this one:p: .

On the side note: good mobo for it's price (picky but good;) )

[high5]

I read you loud & clear about spread spectrum. ;)

It's just that you mentioned it in HTT clocking context:
Luckly I overcome HTT clocking issue from BIOS as you can see :) . Spread Spectrum was causing that problem:p: .

BTW I agree, board looks like a decent value.

[Lightman]

Small update after installing 2nd DIMM :)
Now in Dual Channel mode!

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Memory timings untouched (CL4-4-4-12-15 2T) :)

[NickS]

Very nice. I love MSI boards too, dunno bout you. :)

[Lightman]

Very nice. I love MSI boards too, dunno bout you. :)

Yes! It's great fun to play with this combo :D (BTW this is my 5th MSI mobo ever).

I also did some 3D action again to check impact of second DIMM on 3DMark2001.
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On side note, can anyone tell me what are average memory transfers on AM2 single core DC setups in SiSoft?? Is my 49% bandwidth efficiency normal? Seems to be pretty LOW :confused: .

[Calmatory]

Sorry to bump this thread up, but I am curious to know what did you do to achieve that FSB. Disable Spread Spectrum and put HTT to 400(X2)?

As there are few reviews which show that the mobo starts getting problems when going for 240+ FSB. Also, have you tested the max. possible FSB for the board?

[Lightman]

Sorry to bump this thread up, but I am curious to know what did you do to achieve that FSB. Disable Spread Spectrum and put HTT to 400(X2)?

As there are few reviews which show that the mobo starts getting problems when going for 240+ FSB. Also, have you tested the max. possible FSB for the board?

Hi! Basically I disabled every SpreadSpectrum BIOS option possible, changed HTT multiplier to 3x and then started to bump HTT clocks (and CPU voltages :) ). TBH I never tried max HTT on this mobo but I reached 310HTT pretty easily! If you want I can find out what this MSI can do...

PS. FSB-->HTT
PS2. I did couple of quick tests and Hyper-Transport clocked@~1200MHz (effective) isn't a problem on my motherboard.

[ozzimark]

just curious, how low can you get the 1M time at 3ghz and 500mhz memory clock? 29s seems a smidge slow :p:

[Lightman]

just curious, how low can you get the 1M time at 3ghz and 500mhz memory clock? 29s seems a smidge slow :p:

Here is an answer:
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Bear in mind I'm benching on Win XP x64 so SuperPi runs in virtual x32 environment and besides system is not tweaked towards SuperPi. Probably I could get another 1s or so with proper tweaks....

[Calmatory]

Hi! Basically I disabled every SpreadSpectrum BIOS option possible, changed HTT multiplier to 3x and then started to bump HTT clocks (and CPU voltages :) ). TBH I never tried max HTT on this mobo but I reached 310HTT pretty easily! If you want I can find out what this MSI can do...

PS. FSB-->HTT
PS2. I did couple of quick tests and Hyper-Transport clocked@~1200MHz (effective) isn't a problem on my motherboard.

So, the problem in the reviews is the HT bus, as when HTT hits 240, HT goes to 1200MHz and can not go beyond it.

I am still in early Socket A -age, so FSB feels more comfortable for me, at least as long as I have to work with this ancient system. ;)

[elsupremo]

Is Spread Spectrum on by default?

[Lightman]

Is Spread Spectrum on by default?

Yes, for HTT, SATA and PCIe spread spectrum is on by default!!

BTW new BIOS ver.3.5 seems to change HTT Spread Spectrum to disabled after raising frequency, so at least something improved :) !