IHS Removal

[pcgamer]

I have an AMD X2 3800+ running at 2.5GHz @ 1.45v. The cooler I am using is Thermaltake Sonic Tower w/120mm fan. Here are the temps:

IDLE:
Core1: 37
Core2: 38

LOAD
Core1: 50
Core2: 58

I think the temps are a bit too high

Should I remove the IHS? I heard it can help me get 10-20 degrees lower temp @ load. I have all the proper tools and instructions. I have read tonnes on this already from other forums. Should I remove it?

If removing is not recommended then I will lap the IHS to a mirror shine.

I had an amd64 3000+ lying around so tried taking the IHS from it and did it without any visible damage. You can see the pic.

http://i5.tinypic.com/29djuig.jpg

I am using a gigabyte k8nf-9 motherboard with F11 bios, 2 GB (4x512) Ocz premiere sticks, and have two drives in raid 0

edit: I am guessing that chipping of the core won't be as much problem because a dual core die is pretty big.

[Nefilav]

If you did it once and did it perfectly, the second time is a breeze. It was that way with my Clawhammer and my newly acquired Venice.

An interesting thing, as the Clawhammer used more volts and yet I got a 5 degree drop with it. The Venice uses less and yet I get a 20 degree drop. Its the surface area of the core. If a dual core die is bigger like the Clawhammer core, it wont drop too much. This is based off watercooling though and with my block using screws and weighing less then 300 grams it is less dangerous...its cranked down hard with 4 of those little rubber footies, no problems removing or mounting.

Expect at least a 3 degree temp drop, but get some footies or a shim for a big air cooling sink/place your case sideways when mounting. Overvolted temps benefited a lot more from IHS removal for me, so if you overvolt I say go for it. Whether you have the money to replace it should the air cooler crush it, thats up to you. My risk factor and what I may have lost was a lot less.

My drops were Clawhammer: 40-35 loaded Venice: 56-38 loaded both on water with 26 degrees ambient. The Venice went from 2610 stable to 2750 stable and I havent really let the AS5 cure or the cpu get broken in. You'll see less dramatic results on air, just as I saw a bigger difference on my ghetto chiller and how LN2 benchers get even more. All in all not too crazy of a difference for a crazy CPU mutilation, but this is XS.

[pcgamer]

Sounds like I should avoid it then. Risking a cpu for 5 degrees doesn't sound too good :(

I should just lap the IHS and the heatsink because that thermaltake sonic tower's base is very very bad.

As for the venice I popped open I might overclock that to extreme because I was getting 2.4 GHz stable before

thanks for the input :)

[Mad_Man]

that really seems like bad contact...
i have 3800+ under SonicTower with two really slow fans and at 2600mhz 1.55V and core 2 tops at 52C

[pcgamer]

that really seems like bad contact...


bad contact where? CPU + HS or IHS + core?

your overclock is insane! I want that too :(
did you lap your sonic tower? or the cpu?

[Nefilav]

He might mean bad contact between the IHS and your heatsink. I tried IHS+Core with AS5 on air and water and it didnt really improve anything over the stock paste.

Before you lap your cpu or remove IHS or anything drastic, try this flatness test for the Thermaltake heatsink by printing it out.

http://www.thermochill.com/guides/LappingGrid.pdf

Check the reflection off your Thermaltake heatsink. If the printed out grid is wavy and distorted you need to lap the heatsink. AMD IHS are almost always perfect while every Thermaltake heatsink I've seen is not really too flat, so try it out.

[pcgamer]

thanks for the grid I will try it as soon as my lapping kit arrives so if by any chance the surface is not straight I can lap it atleast ;)

[Skillz]

What is IHS?

[EniGmA1987]

Internal Heat Sink. The square metal part of the processor on the side opposite the pins. Generally has a little bit of text on it, numbers and letters.

[bt_medic04]

it actually stands for integrated heat spreader. its the metal cap on top of the processor. it helps prevent the core from being crushed.

[Skillz]

Ok, that's what I assumed it was but I wasn't sure what it stood for.

I am guessing it's not bad to remove it? I noticed my pentium m has one, but it's just in the middle part of the CPU. I was wondering if I could remove that, cut up some copper sheet metal, and use one that takes up the whole chip that my heatsink would sit on.

Good idea? Bad idea?

[binormalkilla]

No, those temps aren't too high. I would HIGHLY advise against removing the IHS, as you can do permanent damage to the CPU. I personally know someone who ruined the same CPU as you (and me) from removing the IHS. Here are my temps at 2.655 with 1.450V VCore. I'm running Orthos

[binormalkilla]

it helps prevent the core from being crushed.
Yea I forgot to mention that as well. You can RUIN the CPU when mounting you air cooler on the bare cores. Another thing is that you CPU cooler may not fit properly if you have lapped it, additionally it may not be tight enough. They are designed to fit on a CPU with an IHS.
The risks outweigh the benefits. However, if you have an extra $130 to buy another one and you're desperate for temps, then go for it. I would buy an opty 165 to replace it though.

[largon]

The risks outweigh the benefits.Only if one doesn't know what they'r doing.

[binormalkilla]

LOL true! I would think he wouldn't be asking if he did know though :D

[largon]

binormalkilla
Considering he has done it with the 3000+ already... ;)

pcgamer,
You could try to mount your HSF on the naked 3000+ you got there just to see if it mounts properly without the IHS.
The thermal gunk AMD uses under their IHS' is a perfectly good reason to pop the chip. You are guaranteed to get lower temps after decapping.

[binormalkilla]

binormalkilla
Considering he has done it with the 3000+ already... ;)

pcgamer,
You could try to mount your HSF on the naked 3000+ you got there just to see if it mounts properly without the IHS.
The thermal gunk AMD uses under their IHS' is a perfectly good reason to pop the chip. You are guaranteed to get lower temps after decapping.

Word. I hear that they use some cheap silicone based compound. ew. I would take mine off when I get my WCing setup (soon!) but I'm afraid!!! I've never done it before. I bet I could, but I don't want to take a gamble (yet)

[Mad_Man]

bad contact where? CPU + HS or IHS + core?

your overclock is insane! I want that too :(
did you lap your sonic tower? or the cpu?
no lapping at all.
but i have strong feeling that the ihs isnt flat (worn out corners on ihs and printed corners of ihs to base of HS), i will try lapping it out when i get my hands on Brisbane...

[pcgamer]

binormalkilla, yeah I know its a huge risk but from what I read it is not safe to run those x2 @ 60 degrees. I may be wrong on that one. Your temps are pretty high there ;)

[Nefilav]

binormalkilla
Considering he has done it with the 3000+ already... ;)

pcgamer,
You could try to mount your HSF on the naked 3000+ you got there just to see if it mounts properly without the IHS.
The thermal gunk AMD uses under their IHS' is a perfectly good reason to pop the chip. You are guaranteed to get lower temps after decapping.

This is a good idea to use the Venice as a guinea pig for mounting the heatsink. :clap:

Any updates on the Thermaltake heatsink and lapping sink? 2 people I know with a TTBT got a nice 4-7 degree drop from it since the sinks lack of flatness was at fault.


If I get a Conroe, the IHS has got to go regardless of whether it is soldered on. I always try other methods to drop temperature first though...much easier to do it on 50$ expendable CPUS then an expensive dual core. Since my stuff is expendable, I just might try some liquid metal TIM and see how it behaves. It does not bond core+waterblock, as opposed to bonding the IHS+waterblock together.

If you are feeling nervous about the heat of the dual core, maybe consider watercooling. IMO it's a very nice middle ground between the everyday 24/7 usage and extreme cooling. You already are willing to wager a fairly expensive CPU with a big heavy aircooled sink, waterblocks are lightweight. Its a pita to set up, but runs nicely after that provided some leak-testing.

[binormalkilla]

binormalkilla, yeah I know its a huge risk but from what I read it is not safe to run those x2 @ 60 degrees. I may be wrong on that one. Your temps are pretty high there ;)

Nah man it's totally safe. AMD recommends keeping it under 70C, and that temp is in Orthos. I will never have temps that high when gaming (my most CPU intensive task). Another thing, only one core was high. I believe that the max temp is referring to the average between the two, as the motherboard reads it.

Also, I'm getting water cooling in a few weeks. w00t!

[pcgamer]

yeah I was looking into water cooling for a long time now... thermaltake big water looks good and is pretty cheap

[ozzimark]

Only if one doesn't know what they'r doing.

i guess i don't know what i'm doing then, i've killed two lidless K8's that way.

accidents happen ;)

[nick2crete]

Don't do it...it doesn't worth it..

[pcgamer]

So I lapped my CPU instead and here are the results. Picture of before and after: (always using arctic silver 5)

CPU:

Before:
http://www.soban.us/Gallery/Computer%20Updated/DSC01071.JPG
After:
http://www.soban.us/Gallery/Computer%20Updated/DSC01081.JPG[


Heat Sink: (Thermaltake Sonic Tower)

Before:
http://www.soban.us/Gallery/Computer%20Updated/DSC01069.JPG
After:
http://www.soban.us/Gallery/Computer%20Updated/DSC01070.JPG


The temperatures: (In Celcius before lapping)

Idle: Load:
Core1: 38 Core1: 53
Core2: 41 Core2: 59

The temperatures: (In Celcius after lapping to 2000 grit)

Idle: Load:
Core1: 32 Core1: 45
Core2: 35 Core2: 49

screw the IHS removal im happy with this lol thats a huge temp decrease