The world's first carbon-based CPU cooler

[Pinnacle]

http://img.hexus.net/v2/internationalevents/cebit2007/MD/hydro/hydrojet.3.jpg

http://img.hexus.net/v2/internationalevents/cebit2007/MD/hydro/hydrojet.5.jpg


The Hydrojet is a hybrid cooler that features a mix of liquid and air cooling which hopes to return extreme cooling performance. Whilst the carbon core is an unknown quantity at this time the 100% self contained liquid cooling system mixed in with a double-pass air cooling does seems to be impressive, on paper at least.

More
http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=8142

[mion]

I can not imagine this working that well without much air movement.

[californian7856]

cool

now can it beat tower 120?? or scythe infinity?

[nn_step]

this may change things

[justin_c]

...another ocz marketing gimmick. TBH, im loosing more and more trust in ocz, especially with all their gimmick marketing nowdays, "flexxlc" with these huge watercooling barbs on ram...cmon.

[syne_24]

It looks similiar to Sunon Waturbo lol..

http://www.sunon.com.tw/waturbo/en_tc01406001.htm

[Praxis1452]

soooo confused by how this actually works..

[freeloader]

It will be nice to see how it actually does. I'm not planning to unplug my "heavy duty" cooling anytime soon though! :)

[mion]

It looks similiar to Sunon Waturbo lol..

http://www.sunon.com.tw/waturbo/en_tc01406001.htm

That actually makes some sanse.

[theelectic]

Are they sure that black "carbon" base isn't just a fill-in plastic slug? Maybe OCZ couldn't get it machined in time for the show. Look at the ad copy, it's clearly copper in there.

[G3XC]

That thing looks huge judging by the picture. Wont the water slowly vaporize?

[Qkjhfhaiguihfma]

this may change things

excellent insight.

[Frank M]

Are they sure that black "carbon" base isn't just a fill-in plastic slug? Maybe OCZ couldn't get it machined in time for the show. Look at the ad copy, it's clearly copper in there.

Now that you mention it...

I'd rather like to see some more info from isoskin, though.

[NinjaWreck]

Are they sure that black "carbon" base isn't just a fill-in plastic slug? Maybe OCZ couldn't get it machined in time for the show. Look at the ad copy, it's clearly copper in there.

That's a render of the fan, not the base.

[ziddey]

i bet i could evaporate the water and explode it

[theelectic]

That's a render of the fan, not the base.

Nah look at the 2nd pic, top right. The base is clearly shown in copper, render, actual, artist's conception, whatever. It can't possibly be carbon, the thermal conductivity of carbon sucks compared to copper.

[Frank M]

That's a render of the fan, not the base.
Look at the big and the top picture - it's copper colour.
Also, there's no mention of carbon.
i bet i could evaporate the water and explode it
I bet you couldn't with a normal pc - it's enclosed in copper. The mobo would
melt quicker, if it didn't shut down already.

[[XC] MarioMaster]

i wish there was more info on it, the page doesn't really say much

[frankR]

Looks like it's a gimick.

[aintz]

wont be very good is what im thinking

[ex2cib]

the fan should work alright since its almost entirely enclosed in the middle of the unit. I'm guessing its probably going to be a variable speed fan based on temps.
also,dont shoot the product down before it actually gets tested. I for one like innovative designs. for those around when the big typhoon came out, most people said it wouldn't be any good just because it had the words "thermaltake" written on it...

nice work OCZ, hope to see some testing soon :)

[5-Clicks]

...another ocz marketing gimmick. TBH, im loosing more and more trust in ocz, especially with all their gimmick marketing nowdays, "flexxlc" with these huge watercooling barbs on ram...cmon.
I've never been a die-hard fan of OCZ because of that. They put too much gimmick and bling-bling in their marketing. That being said, they do make awesome PSUs which I've owned several of...but they haven't ever really had record setting RAM or more recent GPU overclocks (except in the early days, when their BH-5 and the EB series were good). They've never been good at cooling methods.

[MaxxxRacer]

wierd.. I know that compressed carbon (diamond) has the best thermal properties of all natural materials, but I have no idea how well Carbon-Fibre would do for cooling a CPU. Anyone have any ideas?

[[XC] MarioMaster]

no idea really, hard to tell with so little information

[ozzimark]

wierd.. I know that compressed carbon (diamond) has the best thermal properties of all natural materials, but I have no idea how well Carbon-Fibre would do for cooling a CPU. Anyone have any ideas?

not all that great iirc.


Frank M- water boils at 100c, assuming standard pressure. i promise you the cpu can take well above that before melting. and the pcb and it's components would burn before anything actually melts ;)

[STEvil]

er, the artist rendering shows a fan..

Quite ingenious design i've got to say, though. Been wondering what it was going to look like :D

[Poodle]

wont be very good is what im thinking


I hear ya, my first thought also. The hybrid coolers to date havn't been that good really. Unless the "carbon stuff" is way better than copper in conducting heat it will probably dissapoint...


I remember all the hype when Asetek released their Micro cooler with it's "phase technology". Worse or just as good as any stock cooler and extremely noisy!

[[XC] gomeler]

Carbon fiber = carbon weave in an epoxy. Last time I checked carbon fiber hoods on cars made great insulators and I can't imagine a plastic having better heat conductive properties than solid copper. Now we wait for a review to confirm what we are all thinking.

[xoqolatl]

I smell lots of carbon products coming... marketing sux

[Serra]

I see products like this coming from OCZ and I start to cry. Carbon fiber is more of an insulator than conductor, and the design of this thing just screams with lack of thought. Even though they did state the final design will be different, I see a few major issues arising with the very idea of this product, not the least of which is that there's no pump listed as a part or visible. That tells me that they would be counting on *convection* of the water to cool a CPU. That's just retarded for a company who produces for enthusiasts and overclockers. The fact is that for the heat loads we use, convection simply cannot move water fast enough to be as effective as even a midrange heatpipe solution.

[Eastcoasthandle]

I do hope those screws at the bottom don't come into contact with the IHS :eek:

[Pinnacle]

The final test results of this HSF will settle it all!

[aintz]

wierd.. I know that compressed carbon (diamond) has the best thermal properties of all natural materials, but I have no idea how well Carbon-Fibre would do for cooling a CPU. Anyone have any ideas?

they could just make one with artifical diamonds those arent that expensive are they? plus itd look awesome haha

[nn_step]

they could just make one with artifical diamonds those arent that expensive are they? plus itd look awesome haha

and atom accurate flatness

[ahmad]

This is not the world's first heatsink that contains carbon.

If they are using some kind of carbon foam (graphitic), then this stuff has much better heat transfer capabilities than copper.

Funny how some people are comparing this to carbon-fibre car parts :rolleyes:

[Fairydust]

...If they are using some kind of carbon foam (graphitic), then this stuff has much better heat transfer capabilities than copper...

I have yet to see a graphite foam that offers higher thermal conductivity than copper.

[andyOCZ]

This is not the world's first heatsink that contains carbon.

If they are using some kind of carbon foam (graphitic), then this stuff has much better heat transfer capabilities than copper.

Funny how some people are comparing this to carbon-fibre car parts :rolleyes:

Hey guys, don't call the horse dead until you see him drop! Give this a chance and we will either prove that it works or you'll have something to piss and moan about. :slapass:

[Mul]

I remember all the hype when Asetek released their Micro cooler with it's "phase technology". Worse or just as good as any stock cooler and extremely noisy!

Argh, in Mid 2005 I bought one of these along with the spec in sig (was an Athlon 64 3000+ at the time), instead of the Big Typhoon, because I was drawn into the Vapochill micro hype. Worst £20 ever spent on a cooler.

Mul

[DeltZ]

it's blatantly just rapid prototyped ABS plastic lol.

[andyOCZ]

it's blatantly just rapid prototyped ABS plastic lol.

ABS huh? I thought you all new that we use ABS for all of our products. Even our memory chips are ABS. They are cheaper and run cooler that way. :banana:
:woot:

[ahmad]

I have yet to see a graphite foam that offers higher thermal conductivity than copper.

Then all I have to say is you have not seen much at all...

[XS Janus]

Looks like delrin to me...

Why would the base be so thick? Cracked the cooler base a new phrase?
What would be the point of going - copper IHS to graphite cooler base to copper fins. (add some graphite thermal paste in between,maybe?) Would we benefit much or would only marketing guys have something new to talk about? Maybe its got graphite heat pipe structures cooled by water?
Can you say FRAGILE! :D

[Fairydust]

Then all I have to say is you have not seen much at all...

Where can I get the wonder foam then? Show me one foam with more than 200 W/(m*k) bulk conductivity at pc cooling temperature ranges.

[turbox997]

I smell lots of carbon products coming... marketing sux

QFT... if this product just somewhat works, just watch everyone catch on and it'll be the new big marketing thing since heatpipes(but those actually work well).

IMO, they'd be better off making that water core into copper with fins drawing out from it and then a fan cooling it. It seems like it would be such a small amount of water just sitting there and stirring up(not sure how good of a job it would do conducting and dissipating the heat in such a small closed chamber right above the cpu...seems stagnant to me compared to a conventional water block cooling set up, water has a lot of circulation to cool off before coming in contact with the heatsinks again).

In assumption that this does actually work well, then we'd have to assume that the water draws the heat very well from the initial heat sinks in the chamber, then it can actually draw/channel that heat to the copper/carbon fins fast and effectively enough to cool(if the water can be cooled fast enough) the cpu.... if it doesn't work, like I said, I can just picture hot water(because it's not getting cooled down fast enough) just stirring around in there.

But who knows, maybe it is just enough to keep ambient temps stable?

[aintz]

and atom accurate flatness

why is that my friend?? whats the point of your post?s?

[arisythila]

...another ocz marketing gimmick. TBH, im loosing more and more trust in ocz, especially with all their gimmick marketing nowdays, "flexxlc" with these huge watercooling barbs on ram...cmon.

I donno, From what I've seen the Flex PC9200 is pretty bad ass...

~Mike

[Lancer33]

Apparently better thermal conductivity than any metal.

when a high thermal conductivity matrix such as graphitic carbon is used, not only do the fibers contribute to high thermal conductivity, but the matrix does as well. Since the thermal conductivity of graphite is higher than that of any metal, carbon/carbon would appear ideal for high thermal conductivity composites.

http://www.ms.ornl.gov/researchgroups/cmt/CFCMS/TMS.HTM

[Fr3ak]

Its said that that cooler is able to remove 300W of heat, which makes me think it might not be as bad as you think.
If it turnes out to be working like advertised and if the retail price will be in the 50-70euro range, this thing could be a winner.
That prototype is kinda heavy, the retail version will weight less ;)

[ahmad]

Apparently better thermal conductivity than any metal.



http://www.ms.ornl.gov/researchgroups/cmt/CFCMS/TMS.HTM

Some people do not know how to use google :stick:

[SoddemFX]

Time for some massive "over l c*cking"

Were the package makers smoking the ABS heat pipes Andy? :D

Tom

[FghtinIrshNvrDi]

I had a gigabyte cooler with that type of fan inside of it. It really pushed a lot of air with very little noise. This cooler could be very good!

Ryan

[andyOCZ]

Time for some massive "over l c*cking"

Were the package makers smoking the ABS heat pipes Andy? :D

Tom

Could be after seeing that pic!
:nono:

[californian7856]

well unless iif tower 120 or ultra 120 extreme for E6600 @ 1.5v , then hell yeah ill get it

[3NZ0]

well unless iif tower 120 or ultra 120 extreme for E6600 @ 1.5v , then hell yeah ill get it

Holy crap.

Do people actually check their post makes any form of sense when they click submit?

Or do they just just type anything and hope for the best? :stick:

OT: Funky looking cooler, can't wait for some reviews. Also, just to reiterate the point, carbon fibre is completely different from carbon.

[Daveb2012]

...another ocz marketing gimmick. TBH, im loosing more and more trust in ocz, especially with all their gimmick marketing nowdays, "flexxlc" with these huge watercooling barbs on ram...cmon.

Dont bash OCZ for trying new things with technology, if every one had your attitude we would all still be using CRT's. Even if some thing is worthless when invented it may spark new things.

[Fairydust]

Some people do not know how to use google :stick:

And others don't know how to read and comprehend google hits. Where does the link even mention graphite foams? You might want to read this (http://www1.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesandfuels/pdfs/success/graphite_foam_mar_2001.pdf).

Carbon sure is the future as graphite fiber reinforced composites or (encapsulated) pyrolytic graphite soon and nanotubes after that, but your foam claim is currently just BS.

[californian7856]

Holy crap.

Do people actually check their post makes any form of sense when they click submit?

Or do they just just type anything and hope for the best? :stick:

OT: Funky looking cooler, can't wait for some reviews. Also, just to reiterate the point, carbon fibre is completely different from carbon.

lol i was gonna say "if this cooler actually beats tower 120 or ultra 120 extreme, then hell yeah ill buy it"

[3NZ0]

lol i was gonna say "if this cooler actually beats tower 120 or ultra 120 extreme, then hell yeah ill buy it"

Ah, much better, i agree 100% :toast:

[hht5555]

I have yet to see a graphite foam that offers higher thermal conductivity than copper.

On the basic thermodynamic, carbon foam has thermal conductivity of 1700-2000 W/mK which is 5x greater than copper 400W/mK. If they use carbon foam, technically it transfers heat faster than copper. However, the question is how fast heat transfer coefficient draws out of the cooler using silent fan + copper& water cool? Another thing: by looking on the picture, not sure what they mean about “carbon core”. Is it just a thin sheet of carbon foam attached to copper, and then its thermal diffusivity won’t be effective. But if it’s the whole core of carbon foam (except the copper fin for water cool) then it may help. Keep in mind that carbon foam is not cheap. A block of 1.9" x 1.9" x 3/8" retail for $50.00: http://www.pocographiteonline.com/servlet/Detail?no=17.

[XS Janus]

Maybe it's a block of highly compressed coal?
My question, how would this perform better in your oppinions, considering the IHS and fins are copper?

Maybe they develop a graphite thermal paste - shouldnt be hard to do.

[Lancer33]

By the way...the google search was made to determine the if the thermal conductivity of graphite (not specifically foam because it had not even come into the thread at that point) in response to this post:

"Nah look at the 2nd pic, top right. The base is clearly shown in copper, render, actual, artist's conception, whatever. It can't possibly be carbon, the thermal conductivity of carbon sucks compared to copper."

How about I go back to forums where the goal is not just bashing newbies.

[mad mikee]

I read years ago about pocofoam which was an interesting but expensive idea. Is this an extension of that?

[7he ]-[0rr0r]

yeah i know it's the inq but it offeres the best explanation of the cooler i can find thus far:
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=38294
"You end up with .5 square meters of surface area for cooling so the Hydrojet can dissipate 350-400W of heat with very low noise."
carbon nano tubes it sounds good to me but as always pending benches for opinion

[bing]

Folks, ... The proof is in the pudding .... just wait till review pop up ! Then start arguing ! :D

[oicurafox2000]

Is this coming out within the next 2 years? What ever happened to the OCZ phase cooler??

[Fairydust]

On the basic thermodynamic, carbon foam has thermal conductivity of 1700-2000 W/mK which is 5x greater than copper 400W/mK. If they use carbon foam, technically it transfers heat faster than copper. However, the question is how fast heat transfer coefficient draws out of the cooler using silent fan + copper& water cool? Another thing: by looking on the picture, not sure what they mean about “carbon core”. Is it just a thin sheet of carbon foam attached to copper, and then its thermal diffusivity won’t be effective. But if it’s the whole core of carbon foam (except the copper fin for water cool) then it may help. Keep in mind that carbon foam is not cheap. A block of 1.9" x 1.9" x 3/8" retail for $50.00: http://www.pocographiteonline.com/servlet/Detail?no=17.

While the ligaments do indeed have such thermal conductivity, the material as a whole does not, it is more than just aligned ligaments. The link you provided shows a bulk conductivity of 135 w/m*k in one direction and less in the other.


By the way...the google search was made to determine the if the thermal conductivity of graphite (not specifically foam because it had not even come into the thread at that point) in response to this post:

"Nah look at the 2nd pic, top right. The base is clearly shown in copper, render, actual, artist's conception, whatever. It can't possibly be carbon, the thermal conductivity of carbon sucks compared to copper."

How about I go back to forums where the goal is not just bashing newbies.

I apologize if you took offense, my comments were aimed at ahmand and his claim about graphite foam.

[californian7856]

Ah, much better, i agree 100% :toast:

yeah lol sometimes what u typed isnt what u thought u typed lol

but anyway yeah i would like anadtech do an article on this, cuz Ultra 120 extreme beats tower 120 by quite a lot actually

[Serra]

Even *if* the base is made of graphitic foam and outperforms copper, this monstrosity will still be held back by the fact that water CONVECTION with that little water is just not enough of a force to effectively cool a hot CPU. Add on to that the fact that *at best* this uses a single 120mm fan. Regardless of what it's made of - it could be made of pure diamond for all I care - the maximum amount of cooling power it has will be limited as well by that one fan. You can only remove as much heat as you can put into air coming into/out of the device, and the more air you put in per second, the more you heat you can transfer. A single "silent" (read - low CFM) 120mm (hopefully) fan just doesn't pull in enough air to make this the best thing since sliced bread, especially when you consider all the restriction the air is going though. That's going to slow it down even more.

Again, I hope that the OCZ ocgineers have looked at some of these issues and designed them out... but there are certain facts this in this universe, and until I see some info that says otherwise, this thing just won't be the best thing out there.

I'm not saying it won't work at all, it will. The thing is though that unlike many popular heatpipe soultions today who can achieve a minimum temperature of around 20 degrees C (because that's the condensing point for many heatpipes, they simply don't make use of the heaptipes themselves beyond using the copper tubing as a conductor, making no use of the liquid inside), the *minimum* temperature attainable by this design will be by definition of the engineering, higher than that. Now, it may very well be that if the target minimum is around, say, 40 degrees (complete guess without a better glimpse of the inside) that it is very effective at holding it near that temperature, but it just DOES NOT have the capacity to go much lower.

[XS Janus]

Why do everybody think it is "foam"? Maybe it is similar to the graphite found inside pencils, but molded as a base.
If they would use graphite base to "speed up" the heat transfer to the copper fins, the watter probably is used to further up the potential of the cooler even though it is contained in there, they surely tested it with air and found that water is better.

Funny thing is that we are here discussing it while that OCZ guy is reading our post speculations and laughing it up :D

Edit: I just saw Inq is talking about nano tubes... Please is no news big enough for them... How much would that thing cost if it was using nano tubes... really inq, ccccc...

[gdogg]

I read it wasn't water at all, but it was oil, and there is a pump in there etc.

http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=159&Itemid=5

Very interesting read indeed.

[Mango31]

So, if a graphite based material is such a good heat conductor, why we don't have a carbon thermal paste already ? Would cost much less than silver !

[Kobalt]

Probably because graphite doesn't fit in crevices as well.

[speed bump]

Actually Carbon in the correct form has excellent thermal properties. Just look at Diamond.

I can't wait to see how it works when it comes out.

[Serra]

If they do indeed use micro tubes and a pump of some description (even something thermally-powered), that is good. Certainly better than had been suggested by the first review of it (not that they knew I would assume).

Still, my statement about heat removal capabilities being directly related to amount of air that passes through remains, as does my assertion that while this may be very capable of holding a CPU to some temperature, that temperature will be decently above ambient (which can still be fine for a CPU) if only because the closer to ambient you get the less heat will be able to transfer to the air in the same amount of time.

[XS Janus]

If I understood how the inq described it, it works like this: carbon pickes up the heat then transfers it on to the water tank. That tank has copper fins partly immersed in it while the other part of the fins are cooled by air.

One issue could be surfface area of the graphite base immersed in the watter...

[SaFrOuT]

will be waiting for results before saying that it might be bad or good

[FghtinIrshNvrDi]

Serra, it's not a 120mm fan. It's a new style of fan that gigabyte has been using in their coolers. They're astoundingly quiet and are more of a tower shape instead of a traditional fan that moves air in one direction. Like I said, I've used one.

Ryan

[Iconyu]

Serra, it's not a 120mm fan. It's a new style of fan that gigabyte has been using in their coolers. They're astoundingly quiet and are more of a tower shape instead of a traditional fan that moves air in one direction. Like I said, I've used one.

Ryan

The fans they've been 'stealing' from model electric jet turbines?

[GIGAFAN]

I have gigabyte 3D cooler.The fan realy works.
Grafit is better heat conducter ,but it does have a flaw.It`s very easy to break ,and that much weight on grafitic base makes me VERY woried.Especialy if you have to tighten the screws ,to hold it.And the surfice of the base is easy to damage to.
Second is heat transfer between the base and the sink with the fan.The grafitic core ,and the fan are useless if this fails.

[DeltZ]

graphite layers must also be in line and parallel to conduct heat well i think. i.e. vertical layering opposed to horizontal. as there is weak forces between layers in graphite. Therefore it is only good in conduction under certain circumstances.

[SoF]

gonna have to take a look on it myself tomorrow.
really don't want to make any speculations about performance myself yet - everybody thinks, what he thinks before the first review ;)

[Tony]

I love the way you get this all wrong, I just read this whole thread and was amazed by what some of you think of the cooler and of OCZ.

Anyway, I will explain briefly how this cooler is working.

1 the base is made from directional conductive graphite, we used this material 3 yrs ago but then it was to brittle...now we have a version that is strong enough for direct to CPU contact under pressure.

2 the base has micro channels that over lap each other...this is how we are able to extract so much heat.

3 the fluid is not water, we may use a special coolant but we could use an oil based coolant also.

4 The pump runs off the same impeller as the fan and is centrifugal....it is placed very close to the base and pumps directly on to it, the fluid then travells up the copper tubes to the fluid distribution manifold where it is distributed to the radiators.

5 The radiators have micro channles also, this means they transfer heat at an astounding rate, i have been told the transfer from the base to the radiators of heat under test was measured under a second and the same temp on the base is seen by the radiators...this means this cooler has an ultra high efficiency rating at heat removal.

6 The air cools the radiators on the way into the cooler and then on the way out...total cooling area on the unit here is 0.5M squared...we can make this smaller or bigger depending on how much heat we want to remove.

7 The radiators in the sample here are copper, we have decided to move to Aluminum though to save on weight....there may be a slight drop in thermal performance but its so slight you will never be able to measure it ;)

8 Cooling performance is governed by the temperature of the air entering the unit....deltaT would remain constant for all tests but tested in a warm case will push the temps higher over a test on an open bench.

9 Regarding Cryo Z, units are in production, we are not showing it here but you will see it on sale in the USA soon.

[Movieman]

Tony:
Just to add a little:
graphite has been used in nuclear reactors for years for it's incredible abilty to absorb heat.
In the US it was used until liquid cooled reactors became the norm.
It was used in the Chernobyl reactors also.
No, it wasn't the cause of the meltdown.;)
I'd love to test one of these. Sounds like an excellent design.
Got 2 that will fit a socket 771 base?
I've got 2 cpu's that push 144w that will test the hell out of them!:D
PS: Keep the copper..:D

[Tony]

Tony:
Just to add a little:
graphite has been used in nuclear reactors for years for it's incredible abilty to absorb heat.
In the US it was used until liquid cooled reactors became the norm.
It was used in the Chernobyl reactors also.
No, it wasn't the cause of the meltdown.;)
I'd love to test one of these. Sounds like an excellent design.
Got 2 that will fit a socket 771 base?
I've got 2 cpu's that push 144w that will test the hell out of them!:D
PS: Keep the copper..:D

a copper unit this size is to heavy...trust me there is no difference in performance.

[Movieman]

a copper unit this size is to heavy...trust me there is no difference in performance.

I trust you cause you've probably seen the numbers.
now about those 771 mounts..I have 2 dual clover systems here running at 3200+ on air..One is going to water, the other stays on air..
Got a mount for those that will work and who do I mail the check to?:D

[unregistered]

This thread is really kind of funny ...

So here is a bit more insight: The WayCool technology has been licensed from OnScreen Technologies and we have built more than 50 prototypes over the last year for all kinds of application. This said, copper is reaching its limitations of thermal transfer capability with modern CPUs that run lower power than earlier generations but also have much reduced die area -- therefore higher area power densities than anything before. ... that is up to 200 W/cm2 under normal conditions and way more in overclocked systems.

The only materials that can handle that type of thermals are based on directional graphite, which is the material used in this water block. The design is proprietary and patent pending so I won't comment further.

The second key of the cooler design is the microchannel array contained in each of the heat exchangers. We have achieved designs of less than 1 mm thickness with approximately 80% of the structure being interleaved micro-channels that result in almost complete isothermicity across the entire cooling surface within fractions of a second.

The cooling fluid is moved through a pump - whichever design fits the application, regardless of whether it is a positive displacement, rotary or centrifugal pump or even ion charge pump for smaller units.

The combination of a very high thermal exchange with the heat source with an extremely efficient heat dissipation device that only needs very slow air movement is what this is all about. We built completely passive solutions for graphics cards already that even in a 1 slot form factor beat the crap out of dual slot fan solutions and those will hit the market also in the near future.

The pump and fan are driven by the same motor that can be completely immersed in the coolant - which in that case can also act as noise suppressor for the bearings and as lubricant, similar to dynamic fluid bearings in HDDs.

Since I have spent overall about 3 years in the R&D leading to this prototype, I know very well what it can do and what not and whatever is made public about the technology will hold up.

Regards,

Michael

[Ubermann]

Amen

[Movieman]

Unregistered:
Thanks for the added info!:toast:

[Dimitriman]

Seems like a hell of a cooler,
any idea about average retail price at launch?

[Dimitriman]

BTW I think the transparent plastic top doesn't complement well the looks of the rest of the cooler, maybe retail top could be spiced up a little with some carbon fiber looking design? Or at least some color like dark blue.. (just opinion)

How heavy is the copper model being shown in display?

[bing]

Thanks Tony and Michael for the brief insight.

I guess the thermal resistance must be <= 0.11 C/W at say like 100 Watt with "reasonable" noise level ? :D .. or better < 0.1 C/W :eek:

Of course its only makes sense that it must be better than current air champions, especially at the enough economic scale for that new manucfacturing methodologies and new material too. ;)

C'mon share some secret numbers as a teaser for all of us ! :fact:

[Vapor]

Does CLP eat the carbon? I'm imagining the combo of the two being very potent :eek:

[Movieman]

Thanks Tony and Michael for the brief insight.

I guess the thermal resistance must be <= 0.11 C/W at say like 100 Watt with "reasonable" noise level ? :D .. or better < 0.1 C/W :eek:

Of course its only makes sense that it must be better than current air champions, especially at the enough economic scale for that new manucfacturing methodologies and new material too. ;)

C'mon share some secret numbers as a teaser for all of us ! :fact:

If they will take a 160w quad core and keep it in the 50's it's a winner from my perspective..

[bing]

If they will take a 160w quad core and keep it in the 50's it's a winner from my perspective..

Yeah, agree. But again thermal resistance will vary on different wattage level, but imo it is safe enough to assume the target market set for initial is for dual core which is around 100W.

[unregistered]

The biggest problem will mot likely be the IHS because it is not plane in most cases and further, the interface is low temp solder that has a much lower conductivity than anything else in the therml path. We have experimented with fully liquid immersed chips as well but we need cooperation from the chip manufacturers on that front.

That's the main reason why I really don't want to say anything about the final junction temperatures that we can achieve ... it'll depend on the specific chip in question ... not even the model

[arisythila]

not all that great iirc.


Frank M- water boils at 100c, assuming standard pressure. i promise you the cpu can take well above that before melting. and the pcb and it's components would burn before anything actually melts ;)

Also the Epoxy that they use on mainboards and stuff will burn before the fiberglass.

~Mike

[Anavel0]

I for one am glad to see some new ideas in the processor cooling world. For too long we've only seen larger and larger heatsinks, unless you go to water cooling and their market is getting stagnant also. Must admit I am very suprised to see that it is OCZ that is bringing out the new ideas. Maybe the industry just needed someone to think outside the big shiny copper box.

I'd like to get my hands on one of these as I'm crazy about thermal performance. Even though I'm running a stock A64 4000+. I'm also very curious about the dBa performance of the unit.

Glad to see OCZ coming up with ideas outside of memory. OCZ has always felt like an enthusiast company to me, and what better way to reach out to that market even more then to start making products for other aspects of the enthusiast market as well.

[XS Janus]

Good to see the OZC guys finnaly step up and clear the thread of speculations. I kenw they were laughing in the background these past few days. :D
I looks like really good cooler. A lot of R&D went in it. Idea implementation sure doesn't strike me as something someone just woke up with.

[Richard Dower]

Graphite and nuclear reactors?!...so are our PC's like gonna explode when they heat up???

:-)

[Serra]

I am glad to have some word from OCZ on the more specifics of the inner workings, it has certainly cleared up a lot of confusion. I would still like to see a more detailed schematic, but it's sounding much better than I had previously feared.

[gdogg]

Graphite and nuclear reactors?!...so are our PC's like gonna explode when they heat up???

:-)

lol, nuclear reactors cannot explode, they can only melt down. Same for a cpu.

Wow they really resemble each other. :fact:

[Richard Dower]

I'M SCARED! :(

:p:

[andyOCZ]

Good to see the OZC guys finnaly step up and clear the thread of speculations. I kenw they were laughing in the background these past few days. :D
I looks like really good cooler. A lot of R&D went in it. Idea implementation sure doesn't strike me as something someone just woke up with.

I was watching this thread over the weekend and posted what I knew about the design (Tony has much been more involved). Basically I asked everyone to give it a chance before slamming it. You have to love they way everything new sucks around here, but at the same time you all want bigger, faster, better..... this makes little sense. So, give it a chance! ;)

Thanks Tony for stepping up with a good explanantion!

[Richard Dower]

Andy...any pics of the new 1010W PSU?...looks very interesting.

[DeltZ]

well we kind of got the graphite bit:P

[Pinnacle]

I was watching this thread over the weekend and posted what I knew about the design (Tony has much been more involved). Basically I asked everyone to give it a chance before slamming it. You have to love they way everything new sucks around here, but at the same time you all want bigger, faster, better..... this makes little sense. So, give it a chance! ;)

Thanks Tony for stepping up with a good explanantion!

:fact:

PS: Andy, you think you could send me the latest OCZ news from now on!?
Im one of the good guys here, not like the others :p: :D

[THE JEW (RaVeN)]

Interesting design. For me, the "pudding proof" will be in the results, but if nothing else I salute you for trying a different design.

[andyOCZ]

:fact:

PS: Andy, you think you could send me the latest OCZ news from now on!?
Im one of the good guys here, not like the others :p: :D

If you are serious, I could see about getting you on our PR/News email list. Jus email me in my sig.

[Knight]

How hard would it be to damage the base of the cooler? Do we need a new thermal grease like AS5 for the carbon base?

[Thrilla]

How much are those graphite and how difficult is it to work with? It'll be fun making waterblocks or put heatpipes in them =P

[andyOCZ]

Andy...any pics of the new 1010W PSU?...looks very interesting.

From the info I have it will be similar to the GamXStream line of PSU's. I'm pretty sure that they took a prototype or even a production unit to Cebit in Taiwan, but I haven't had a look yet.

[ahmad]

How could I forget. Some nuclear reactors use graphite blocks.

Anyways, thanks for the info Tony and unregistered.

I love the way you get this all wrong, I just read this whole thread and was amazed by what some of you think of the cooler and of OCZ.

Anyway, I will explain briefly how this cooler is working.

1 the base is made from directional conductive graphite, we used this material 3 yrs ago but then it was to brittle...now we have a version that is strong enough for direct to CPU contact under pressure.

2 the base has micro channels that over lap each other...this is how we are able to extract so much heat.

3 the fluid is not water, we may use a special coolant but we could use an oil based coolant also.

4 The pump runs off the same impeller as the fan and is centrifugal....it is placed very close to the base and pumps directly on to it, the fluid then travells up the copper tubes to the fluid distribution manifold where it is distributed to the radiators.

5 The radiators have micro channles also, this means they transfer heat at an astounding rate, i have been told the transfer from the base to the radiators of heat under test was measured under a second and the same temp on the base is seen by the radiators...this means this cooler has an ultra high efficiency rating at heat removal.

6 The air cools the radiators on the way into the cooler and then on the way out...total cooling area on the unit here is 0.5M squared...we can make this smaller or bigger depending on how much heat we want to remove.

7 The radiators in the sample here are copper, we have decided to move to Aluminum though to save on weight....there may be a slight drop in thermal performance but its so slight you will never be able to measure it ;)

8 Cooling performance is governed by the temperature of the air entering the unit....deltaT would remain constant for all tests but tested in a warm case will push the temps higher over a test on an open bench.

9 Regarding Cryo Z, units are in production, we are not showing it here but you will see it on sale in the USA soon.

This thread is really kind of funny ...

So here is a bit more insight: The WayCool technology has been licensed from OnScreen Technologies and we have built more than 50 prototypes over the last year for all kinds of application. This said, copper is reaching its limitations of thermal transfer capability with modern CPUs that run lower power than earlier generations but also have much reduced die area -- therefore higher area power densities than anything before. ... that is up to 200 W/cm2 under normal conditions and way more in overclocked systems.

The only materials that can handle that type of thermals are based on directional graphite, which is the material used in this water block. The design is proprietary and patent pending so I won't comment further.

The second key of the cooler design is the microchannel array contained in each of the heat exchangers. We have achieved designs of less than 1 mm thickness with approximately 80% of the structure being interleaved micro-channels that result in almost complete isothermicity across the entire cooling surface within fractions of a second.

The cooling fluid is moved through a pump - whichever design fits the application, regardless of whether it is a positive displacement, rotary or centrifugal pump or even ion charge pump for smaller units.

The combination of a very high thermal exchange with the heat source with an extremely efficient heat dissipation device that only needs very slow air movement is what this is all about. We built completely passive solutions for graphics cards already that even in a 1 slot form factor beat the crap out of dual slot fan solutions and those will hit the market also in the near future.

The pump and fan are driven by the same motor that can be completely immersed in the coolant - which in that case can also act as noise suppressor for the bearings and as lubricant, similar to dynamic fluid bearings in HDDs.

Since I have spent overall about 3 years in the R&D leading to this prototype, I know very well what it can do and what not and whatever is made public about the technology will hold up.

Regards,

Michael

[Ron 61]

Looks like Thermaltake wants some of the Onscreen Waycool tech also http://www.onscreentech.com/newsfull.php?ID=193

[andyOCZ]

Some does this mean we are actually onto something?

We signed up quite a while ago. Copy Cats!

[dinos22]

Some does this mean we are actually onto something?

We signed up quite a while ago. Copy Cats!

looks like unregistered just gave us a slightly better idea but we now want hard numbers :D

[RFC Rudel]

I already think of some nasty 80mm fans attached to the top to help the xtreme OC :banana:

[gundamit]

The biggest problem will mot likely be the IHS because it is not plane in most cases and further, the interface is low temp solder that has a much lower conductivity than anything else in the therml path. Every cooler faces the same QC problem with regard to the flatness (or lack thereof) on the IHS. So YMMV in every case.

I'm confident that the new OCZ cooler will perform as well if not better than the top standard air coolers. The only question is whether the price point and performance will have new CPU owners and guys who already have beefy $50+ air coolers, taking a chance on a new technology and OCZ who has yet to establish credibility in this market, like they have with memory and to some degree, power supplies. I'm hoping the performance will spectacular so the choice becomes easy. :toast:

[ahmad]

Every cooler faces the same QC problem with regard to the flatness (or lack thereof) on the IHS. So YMMV in every case.

I'm confident that the new OCZ cooler will perform as well if not better than the top standard air coolers. The only question is whether the price point and performance will have new CPU owners and guys who already have beefy $50+ air coolers, taking a chance on a new technology and OCZ who has yet to establish credibility in this market, like they have with memory and to some degree, power supplies. I'm hoping the performance will spectacular so the choice becomes easy. :toast:

If its going to be within +/- 5*C of an entry level water cooling setup, I will go for it.

[Ron 61]

Looks like this cooler will work best in a well ventilated case with fresh air ducted into the top of the cooler. Water block manufacturers are probably keeping a close eye on this.

[7he ]-[0rr0r]

I would like to give a thanks to the OCZ guys as well i don't claim to be the most hardcore person on these forums but it really seemed that everyone was forming opinions with little to no research perhaps this will put a damper on the instant "it's crap" responses to new products.
I'd like to thank Tony in particular for his work for the enthusiast community it's good to see you posting anytime.
(i wish the sapphire board had been made on the reference grouper you worked along side of ati to develop, I'm still taming that beast and will give another go with your modded bios here in a bit.)
Btw if this is as good as some of the early claims thanks for making my watercooling seem less... kool. lol.

[mad mikee]

Always worthwhile waiting for the people in the know to come in and un-muddy the waters a bit.

Now just for grins, does removing the IHS and make the Core flat help, and what is a good guess (emphasis on GUESS/speculation / intuition/hunch) on how much it might help :shrug:

Thanks MikeE

/Me sits back to await realities of the future :D

[XS Janus]

they talk about 100$ price?
http://www.matbe.com/actualites/15713/cebit-2007-ocz-hydrojet-carbon-waycool/
Some new pics on the site also...

[andyOCZ]

looks like unregistered just gave us a slightly better idea but we now want hard numbers :D

Unregistered is one of the engineers! I hope he has better knowledge of this non-finalzed product! :banana:

As far as price, that may be the target. Again this product is not ready to hit the shelves. Hopefully we will all have more info soon.

[theteamaqua]

Unregistered is one of the engineers! I hope he has better knowledge of this non-finalzed product! :banana:

As far as price, that may be the target. Again this product is not ready to hit the shelves. Hopefully we will all have more info soon.

havent u send it to review sites?? i;d like to see how it performs against tower 120

[XS Janus]

Unregistered is one of the engineers! I hope he has better knowledge of this non-finalzed product! :banana:

As far as price, that may be the target. Again this product is not ready to hit the shelves. Hopefully we will all have more info soon.

Cool!
But since this board can also be considered as XtremeSpeculation our bickering and brainstorming will definitely continue. :D

[RyderOCZ]

havent u send it to review sites?? i;d like to see how it performs against tower 120The product is still 2 - 3 months out, there are no review samples to send yet.

Cool!
But since this board can also be considered as XtremeSpeculation our bickering and brainstorming will definitely continue. :DI will buy that for a dollar ;) :D

[XS Janus]

^2$ and I'm signing the doted line! :D

[andyOCZ]

havent u send it to review sites?? i;d like to see how it performs against tower 120

A prototype was shown at CEBIT, the big computer show in Germany taking place now. No one has seen this except the OCZ engineers before this.

[Movieman]

A prototype was shown at CEBIT, the big computer show in Taiwan taking place now. No one has seen this except the OCZ engineers before this.

So where's the piece of paper to sign up as a "OCZ Engineer"? j/k:D
Can you tell that I'm VERY interested in this?;)

[[XC] gomeler]

If it can really dissipate 300 watts at decent temps (50 celsius with a 25 celsius ambient) then I am sure people will jump all over it. If it only offers a slight performance increase over the current metal monsters then I expect it to sell worse than the PS3. 3 months is too long to wate, somebody steal an ES :p:

[dinos22]

wonder if this same sort of material can be used in water cooling as well

anyways sounds intriguing >> let's wait a couple of months and see what happens :toast:

[serialk11r]

personally, i think we should boycott the release of this thing; i'd sure hate to see the polar ice caps diminish even more rapidly than they already are!

:)
lol stop using your pencil then, IT HAS CARBON :eek: OMFG WE'RE GONNA DIE CUZ PENCILS ARE CAUSING GLOBAL WARMING!

[Kobalt]

lol stop using your pencil then, IT HAS CARBON :eek: OMFG WE'RE GONNA DIE CUZ PENCILS ARE CAUSING GLOBAL WARMING!

Solid carbon is completely different from carbon dioxide :slap:. Please tell me you knew this.

[serialk11r]

Solid carbon is completely different from carbon dioxide :slap:. Please tell me you knew this.

Yea duh I knew it, I was poking fun at s1rrah :)

[Kobalt]

Yea duh I knew it, I was poking fun at s1rrah :)

Okay good I was getting worried for humanity.

[perkam]

We'll have to wait for performance review to judge whether the price/materials are satisfactory.

Perkam

[FghtinIrshNvrDi]

lol stop using your pencil then, IT HAS CARBON :eek: OMFG WE'RE GONNA DIE CUZ PENCILS ARE CAUSING GLOBAL WARMING!

LMAO!

Just... *sputter* sit real still and *holds breath* try not to breathe *cough*

Ryan

[s1rrah]

Yea duh I knew it, I was poking fun at s1rrah :)

thanks for poking fun at me! believe me, it's seriously appreciated!

and, like you, in the spirit of fun for all ... i was poking fun at the whole global warming craze.

:)

[adamsleath]

...so is this thing any closer to coming out retail?

...and i suppose the answer is 'yes', but when, how much and how cool?

[RyderOCZ]

Closer yes, prototype available for temp testing?... Not yet ;)

[adamsleath]

..mmm crossing fingers that with stated 300w dissipation this thing might actually be capable of keeping most cpu's that much closer to ambient temperature...? depends muchly on thermal transfer at the base obviously.

[Mad1723]

..mmm crossing fingers that with stated 300w dissipation this thing might actually be capable of keeping most cpu's that much closer to ambient temperature...? depends muchly on thermal transfer at the base obviously.

OCZ stated 400W in fact... so I can't wait to see what it is in fact :p:

[One_Hertz]

helooo peltiers on air!

[SaFrOuT]

yes this cooler i think will be the link between extreme air cooling and watercooling , or at least this is what i hope

[Anavel0]

Man almost forgot about this cooler with all the buzz around the new Thermalright Ultra-120 Xtreme and IFX-14. Anymore news on the cooler? I'm still really interested in it's design.

[death metal]

I am wating for far tooooooo long :)....

[stealthbomber]

OCZ stated 400W in fact... so I can't wait to see what it is in fact :p:

I'll believe it when I see some insane voltages pumped into a heavily overclocked quad core chip. :D

[m0da]

400w heat dissipation :O
ON AIR?? :OOO
Very nice job if it pulls through @ OCZ!

[Revv23]

i feel like this was just a gimmick to get ocz in headlines for cebit...

ill be first in line if it is really a top performer tho.

[andyOCZ]

i feel like this was just a gimmick to get ocz in headlines for cebit...

ill be first in line if it is really a top performer tho.

No gimmicks. We only showed a mock-up at cebit and never stated a release date. Progress is being made, so hang tight!

I can't say much more at this time.

[Nanometer]

Is that your way of saying it's a decent performer? ;) lol

[p8ntslinger676]

No gimmicks. We only showed a mock-up at cebit and never stated a release date. Progress is being made, so hang tight!

I can't say much more at this time.

where do yall get the carbon bar stock for the base, cus i would love to get my hands on some of that to mill up :D

[andyOCZ]

where do yall get the carbon bar stock for the base, cus i would love to get my hands on some of that to mill up :D

This carbon material is proprietary and is being used under license. I doubt you can go into Carbon Depot and buy it off the shelf. ;)

[SaFrOuT]

a small question to the OCZ guys

what is the expected height of this cooler ?

[adamsleath]

i still have crossed fingers.

[Daveb2012]

this is a really old thread, is their news on this cooler?

[SaFrOuT]

this is a really old thread, is their news on this cooler?

check below
No gimmicks. We only showed a mock-up at cebit and never stated a release date. Progress is being made, so hang tight!

I can't say much more at this time.

[jamiet757]

what are the benefits of a carbon-based cooler? does it have better heat transfer than copper?

[andyOCZ]

what are the benefits of a carbon-based cooler? does it have better heat transfer than copper?

Simply put, if carbon was not superior we would use copper since it's allot easier to get.

[Movieman]

what are the benefits of a carbon-based cooler? does it have better heat transfer than copper?

Old style nuclear reactors used graphite to line the cooling chambers because of it's incredible ability to absorb heat. Now you do need water also as graphite can "flash" back that heat if it gets too high too fast.
Think Chernobyl:D

[EternityZX9]

I can't wait for more information...if it's better than current high end air solutions I'll definately get this for my next upgrade....

[OzJustin]

Any news on this cooler lately?

[SaFrOuT]

as always when OCZ show prototypes of something u should know that it will be a long time before it reaching the market ( remember the phase cooling unit )

so if no new news about this cooler come out till IFX-14 is out, i will buy it

[EternityZX9]

Yeah...I'd like to see this out in time for Barcelona or the Phenom processors...but considering their track record with the Cryo-Z...I'm not sure they can deliver on time (very little faith here).Might be spending my money else where, even though I do believe OCZ makes some quality parts. :shrug: