View Full Version : Custom Phase Builder Needed in the UK
stormcloud
03-14-2007, 03:00 PM
Hi,
I'm looking for someone to build me a unit. I thought it would be quite easy to find someone but either I'm looking in the wrong places or they are all hiding from me! :( Can anyone recommend somebody in the UK please? Or anywhere else as long as I'm not going to have to sell any of my internal organs to pay the shipping? Thanks in advance
Cheers
SC
LukeXE
03-14-2007, 03:04 PM
Johann, bazx, Gray Mole...sorry if I missed someone, I mus go to bed. Cya
goatboy
03-14-2007, 03:05 PM
I think Prometeia is UK based.
http://extremeprometeia.com/
LukeXE
03-14-2007, 03:08 PM
Eh, must write another post :D
Taking custom unit will be much better idea than prommy. MUCH BETTER
stormcloud
03-14-2007, 03:35 PM
Hi,
Thanks for the replies. I'm not interested in a Prommie or anything that extremeprometia do they are overpriced big time. They tried to charge me £300 to regass a Vapo saying that was there minimum charge! Custom is so much better, colder and cheaper. Mostly :D Just need to find someone that can do it. I think Johann is going back to SA so he's out unfortunately coz he does nice work.
Cheers
Raja@ASUS
03-14-2007, 09:37 PM
gray mole seems a decent builder, my unit was made by Johann. And yes you are right charging £1500 or so for a custom unit is absolutely diabolical, Gray and Johann can give you a similarly performing unit for a third of the price...
stormcloud
03-15-2007, 12:56 AM
gray mole seems a decent builder, my unit was made by Johann. And yes you are right charging £1500 or so for a custom unit is absolutely diabolical, Gray and Johann can give you a similarly performing unit for a third of the price...
Thanks Raju,
I found the work log for your Vision by Johann it's awesome!:slobber: I also have a Lain-Li PC-71 so the longer case with the window would be great. I might PM Gray Mole see what he can do for me.
Cheers
Gray Mole, Johann, Fatty via EP-UK i think or Thicky i duno, Chilled PC.co.uk offer a custom unit to. Bazx i don't think is offering units for sale but builds kick ass in your face huge cascade units.
I found it cheaper and faster to get one outside the UK
stormcloud
03-15-2007, 03:43 AM
Cheers Pete who did you use?
i`d recommend Fatty or Mole :)
Gray Mole as per my pm. I think his hands are better now. I'll ask Thicky tonight if he's up for it when he gets back from work like
phil stanbridge
03-15-2007, 08:50 AM
Okay guys, forgive me for posting in here but I think I have every right to after some of the comments raised about my company (EP-UK).
@ Stormcloud & Raju, whilst you are entitled to your opinion let me just state that the products on EP-UK are not over-priced! You'll find that my water-cooling components actively reflect the competitive market in the UK, and in some instances my products are cheaper here than elsewhere.
With reference to my custom phase - I have to price accordingly. Each unit is made to order, and I have to pay for a legally qualified engineer, parts, UK VAT, shipping and handling and administrative costs - plus there is the warranty to consider. Obviously this adds up, and I have to make a living out of what I do - this is my life, my career and my full time job! It isn't just some part-time side line!
At the end of the day you get what you pay for. My phase products and systems are labours of love, developed from the ground up in most cases. It's like comparing a Ford to a Ferrari!
I hope this helps.
sacha35
03-15-2007, 08:58 AM
Well said Phill.
stormcloud
03-15-2007, 12:35 PM
I don’t want this thread to go off topic as I really NEED a new unit! But to answer Phil, I think that, as the owner of EP-UK, you are in a unique position to make loads of money. People are crying out for somewhere they can safely buy custom products, repairs that they can trust and where the work is also protected by a full warranty, etc. You mention covering costs, etc. but I think if you scrap that £300 minimum charge and take on the small jobs as well as the big, your turnover will increase dramatically. I for one would love to own one of your “labours-of-love”! By being a little more flexible, allowing customers to tailor units to their needs and wallets, :D you should get lots more business. There are more people looking at the lower- to mid-unit than there is at the ultra high-end. Why not do both?
phil stanbridge
03-15-2007, 02:11 PM
I don’t want this thread to go off topic as I really NEED a new unit! But to answer Phil, I think that, as the owner of EP-UK, you are in a unique position to make loads of money. People are crying out for somewhere they can safely buy custom products, repairs that they can trust and where the work is also protected by a full warranty, etc. You mention covering costs, etc. but I think if you scrap that £300 minimum charge and take on the small jobs as well as the big, your turnover will increase dramatically. I for one would love to own one of your “labours-of-love”! By being a little more flexible, allowing customers to tailor units to their needs and wallets, :D you should get lots more business. There are more people looking at the lower- to mid-unit than there is at the ultra high-end. Why not do both?
Thank you for your very informative reply Stormcloud. I appreciate your honesty. I whole heartedly agree with what you are saying - but the problem in the past has been third party costs. The "minimum charge" covered these. I have had to sub-contract legally qualified engineers to carry out the professional work, and I still have to make my cut (which isn't as much as most people think!). When you're talking about a minimum charge + vat, + shipping and everything else, you can see how it mounts up. I wouldn't be able to successfully run my business IF I didn't pass these costs on to the customer. Being VAT registered is a pain at times! :(
But digressing, without prejudice, come back to me and let me see what I can offer you, regards your custom unit Stormcloud - I think you will be pleasantly surprised. I have some new engineers working for me now, and quite a lot will be changing in the very near future.
Gray Mole, Johann, Fatty via EP-UK i think or Thicky i duno, Chilled PC.co.uk offer a custom unit to. Bazx i don't think is offering units for sale but builds kick ass in your face huge cascade units.
I found it cheaper and faster to get one outside the UK
thanks for the nice words pete
and you are right i dont sell units:)
Gray Mole
03-15-2007, 02:55 PM
For the record, Phil is not overpriced at all.
In fact, Phil's pricing reflects what phase units are actually worth, and considering his service and support, not to mention his warranty, it really IS worth it to consider him for custom phase units.
Considering how much, especially lately, the 'enthusiast' builder market has been going, and the problems and lack of support that's been happening, now more than ever using EP-UK is an idea worth considering.
Besides, Phil is a heck of a nice guy, and anyone who's ever dealt with him has had nothing but great words for him.
There's quite a number of builders here in the UK, and across Europe that are quite good.
Phil's level of quality has ALWAYS been at the very highest, and he demands from his engineers ONLY the best work. Sometimes you have to consider that makes it worth a little more.
Cheers :)
Gray
bradmax57
03-15-2007, 03:52 PM
For the record, Phil is not overpriced at all.
In fact, Phil's pricing reflects what phase units are actually worth, and considering his service and support, not to mention his warranty, it really IS worth it to consider him for custom phase units.
Considering how much, especially lately, the 'enthusiast' builder market has been going, and the problems and lack of support that's been happening, now more than ever using EP-UK is an idea worth considering.
Besides, Phil is a heck of a nice guy, and anyone who's ever dealt with him has had nothing but great words for him.
There's quite a number of builders here in the UK, and across Europe that are quite good.
Phil's level of quality has ALWAYS been at the very highest, and he demands from his engineers ONLY the best work. Sometimes you have to consider that makes it worth a little more.
Cheers :)
Gray
Totally agree! Yes you can probably buy cheaper, but quality and service of this level has to come at some cost. Keep it up Phil!
maverik-sg1
03-16-2007, 07:56 AM
The above comments say a thousand words.
Don't forget that as a legimitate business - you have to consider all aspects of the build which also includes the level of experience that people have when entering a phase cooled world of computing and appropriate liability insurance if anything ever goes wrong - EPUK has to cater for all levels and this has a price, a price that most people can see the value in paying.
Anyone who has dealt with EPUK has only great praise for the work and effort involved, not just in the products, but also the service - it's only when things go wrong that you can gauge that.
I have dealt with EPUK on several occasions for a variety of products and services (complete phase units, regassing and watercooled components). Compared to ther UK companies the service levels are 2nd to none, in fact it raised the bar and other companies should gauge their own performance using EPUK as their benchmark here in the UK.
This thread could easily of turned into a flaming session and I applaud everyone for keeping this a civilised and informative thread.
Mav
Brettbeck
03-16-2007, 09:46 AM
@ phil stanbridge - I don't want to be an a$$ here, but owning a company like you do... can't you claim back on VAT?
kitfit1
03-16-2007, 11:36 AM
@ phil stanbridge - I don't want to be an a$$ here, but owning a company like you do... can't you claim back on VAT?
Of course he can, but he also pays VAT as well. At the end of the day VAT is paid by the end user(the retail customer)and always will be, just a fact of life. He dos'nt make any money out of charging VAT, in fact it costs him money to collect it for the government.
stormcloud
03-16-2007, 12:29 PM
Ok I apologise Phil I didn't look at it from all the angles. I never doubted the quality of your products or your service it's just I'm a mean Scotsman and find it hard to part with what little money I get. lol. I think after the number of closet supporters for EPUK and yourself and the service you provide I think I've had enough :slapass:and will from this day forward never take UPUK's name in vain:D
SC
maverik-sg1
03-16-2007, 12:48 PM
Ok I apologise Phil I didn't look at it from all the angles. I never doubted the quality of your products or your service it's just I'm a mean Scotsman and find it hard to part with what little money I get. lol. I think after the number of closet supporters for EPUK and yourself and the service you provide I think I've had enough :slapass:and will from this day forward never take UPUK's name in vain:D
SC
:D
I think if you take your enquiry direct I am sure that the negotiations may prove fruitful - One of the units I purchased was a recon and it helped me get into phase cooled system without breaking the bank - it's now a R507 regas with chilly head and going strong after 3 1/2 years constant use and considerable abuse.
Good luck in your quest and good luck with your overclocking experiencing.
phil stanbridge
03-16-2007, 01:31 PM
Ok I apologise Phil I didn't look at it from all the angles. I never doubted the quality of your products or your service it's just I'm a mean Scotsman and find it hard to part with what little money I get. lol. I think after the number of closet supporters for EPUK and yourself and the service you provide I think I've had enough :slapass:and will from this day forward never take UPUK's name in vain:D
SC
LOL... Where abouts in Scotland are you sir? I'm up on the west coast myself, in ayrshire.
But digressing, as Mav has said thanks for not turning this thread into a flame-fest and let's keep it on track.
Another Scottish bencher????
That makes...at least....3.
stormcloud
03-16-2007, 03:56 PM
Another Scottish bencher????
That makes...at least....3.
LOL you're probably not far wrong!
stormcloud
03-16-2007, 04:02 PM
LOL... Where abouts in Scotland are you sir? I'm up on the west coast myself, in ayrshire.
But digressing, as Mav has said thanks for not turning this thread into a flame-fest and let's keep it on track.
Hi Phil,
Originally I was from the borders but then I moved to Glasgow for a while (5yrs)and I currently reside deep in Englandshire! Which surprisingly I really enjoy the weather is sooo much better it's like a different country:p:
Brettbeck
03-16-2007, 05:47 PM
Another Scottish bencher????
That makes...at least....3.
You, Phil and John :D .
Originally I was from the borders but then I moved to Glasgow for a while (5yrs)and I currently reside deep in Englandshire! Which surprisingly I really enjoy the weather is sooo much better it's like a different country:p:
So where abouts is that exactly lol? Sounds like central England sorta. Maybe you're near me :D .
stormcloud
03-17-2007, 02:06 AM
You, Phil and John :D .
So where abouts is that exactly lol? Sounds like central England sorta. Maybe you're near me :D .
Stevenage oh joy!
Brettbeck
03-17-2007, 03:05 AM
Stevenage oh joy!
Ahh right. A tad further south than I thought lol :D!
phil stanbridge
03-17-2007, 04:52 AM
a-ha.. Well I'm an Englander living in Scotland. I was born in Peterborough and lived there nearly all my life Stormcloud.. Small world indeed.
You, Phil and John :D .
Nice idea!
@Phil..... get benching! :D
rapty
03-17-2007, 03:20 PM
Johann did a good Unit, Grey Mole and him are probably the best to consider Eprometria are charging a premium, Phill you are charging alot more than the usual considering the might be main source of Income. The Paint Jobs are worthy of note, not the amount worth of Money in investment into sentimental BS that is SERIOUSLY overpriced, its not bloody worth it the Results you can get alot cheaper here from UK Modders on this SITE, yeah the oppinion is cutting but its the truth.
VAT doesn't come into it if your running a business like your claimeing
Doubtfull.
My Vote is Johann
Johann and Grey Mole are worth the time in a Professional Consideration that is actually considering the work than the money.
sacha35
03-17-2007, 03:26 PM
I think you are totally out of order Rapty in what you have said, if you have seen any of the work that EP-UK has to offer then you would think twice about what you have said, my work is to a high standard but Phil’s stuff at EP-UK is out of the world and this has to reflect in the price in the workmanship, you pay peanuts you get monkeys.
So let’s not start a flaming match, if you have nothing constructive to say don’t say it at all, and if you must then keep it to PM's only.
Sacha
rapty
03-17-2007, 03:38 PM
Get Lost what world do you live in??
Their way off the Over Priced Mark
Yes they do a good work on Paint Jobs Results wise I wouldn't touch them the Regassing and Mods they offer are a joke.
Careful who you slag and who you credit. They may be one and the same.
Do your homework.
You are entitled to your opinion, but keep it relevant and polite. No-one puts a gun to your head and forces you to buy, so tone it down a bit.
sacha35
03-17-2007, 03:41 PM
rapty I am not going to stoop to your low level off flaming others, as said if you have nothing constructive to say DONT say it.
rapty
03-17-2007, 03:46 PM
Are you by any chance all from the UK and Support EP UK?
mmm what are the odds?, I wonder....
"Hey! I`m Rapty...i`m-a slag off EP-UK but if anyone supports them...they're biased and wrong!"
Everyone has their loyalty.
rapty
03-17-2007, 03:55 PM
Yeah Good Paint Jobs
Crap Prices.
sacha35
03-17-2007, 04:03 PM
You get what you pay for, and that is reflected in the workmanship, it’s like comparing a ford to a Ferrari, they both do the same thing but what would you prefer?
rapty
03-17-2007, 04:06 PM
Shame we are compareing Exteriors on a Phase Forum.
Results are what matter and the Price what are differences on those fronts?
If no-one cared how they`re rig looked, Phil might be out of business... some people obviously do care. Each to their own! :)
Find someone eles willing to drill 50+ rivits on a case out neatly to get it stripped down to the as factory folded set up for modding....i dont see manny that know the ways and hows with the right tools or the skill bar Phill @ EP-UK.
Phill is a top guy. Really down to earth.
No i have no ties with EP-UK, i have been a customer, a very happy and loyal customer.
I belive if you want the best you pay the price. Makes sense does it not!
Oh and Rapty keep shooting that mouth and you'll shoot ya self in the foot and off many many forums! What comes around goes around, thats no warn from me but the admin/mod here soon catch you up
rapty
03-17-2007, 04:14 PM
Oh Quick from changeing your tone saying I'm out of Order to Each to their Own!!!
Water Under the Bridge!
Like I said Check your Fkin Prices.
Case may come into it if showing off a Computer Case meens that much to his freinds...
Is that to me? What the hell was your PM about...
Has some bent you over and forgoten the KY to stick that pole up you ass...this why your so anal at the moment
rapty
03-17-2007, 04:29 PM
Bandwagon suites the Fashion, not my Problem that one Can't lead its self to a judgement.
Besides the Point posting because its loyalty.
Not a Judgement on the Service Given
So f Off.
sacha35
03-17-2007, 04:33 PM
Rapty, get a life Guy, if you just want to flame then do it somewhere else as you are getting very boring, this forum does not need the kind of comments from guys like you who are only interested in flaming others, so do yourself a big favour and do your flaming elsewhere.
Well i don;t shop @ OCUK, :banana::banana::banana::banana:e service, shocking charges for delivery and really poor customer serivce i found.
I'd rather go where i am treated as loyal customer and made welcome and the owner/sales rep what ever having the time to help me out and talk a little.
OCUK money money money.
I've had a really good chat with Phill over many months, can't fault him. He is a true pioner of personaly businse built off his own back and pushing the limits on modding a case finish
rapty
03-17-2007, 04:40 PM
StormCloud Pm to Johann me or Greymole, OCUK sell a Vapo Unit has not been mentioned by my mentoining as implied by EP UK Presence, I am looking for the best result for a Given Unit for the = Price not THE Exterior or Price Values that imply to a Market that does not exist as Taken for the FALSE Implied above.
Brettbeck
03-17-2007, 05:10 PM
I don't really want to get involved here... but I just want to say 1 thing.
I'm sure it is a great thing to be able to buy from such a nice guy and know that you will have the absolute best tech support etc you could ever want. (Unlike places like OCUK).
However, the only thing that I can see that would put someone off buying a phase change unit from EPUK is because of the price. I remember a while ago looking at a custom made unit that was priced at about £1500 or something similar. Sorry but for a single stage unit (regardless of whether it has the best paint job in the world) is just too steep. For £1500 I could probably start from scratch, buy all new parts, tools etc and make a good unit. Maybe even with a nice case. OR you could probably buy an awesome 3 stage cascade from one of the top builders round here.
I'm not slagging off anything or anyone here, but I just think the prices need to be reconsidered.
rapty
03-17-2007, 05:38 PM
Rediculous sometimes asking commen sense in Credit Ridden UK
Nice to see the Truth in Spoken in Real World diffentaions in Prices, point is without any attitude point that EP UK Fanatics saying I am pointing towards is, that their Prices are to Bloody Expensive!
Big SturL
03-17-2007, 05:48 PM
As much as I agree that £1500 is way overcharged for an SS, I strongly believe you should tone down rapty.
phil stanbridge
03-18-2007, 03:24 AM
Okay guys please calm it a tad - this isn't some slagging match.
I'll go back to what I said before - I have to pay for a qualified HVAQ engineer to do the professional bit on the phase rigs. I offer the professional aesthetics, the warranty and the service. I'm not forcing you to buy your stuff from me - but I do have overheads to consider. Maybe these other guys do this on the side eh? Who knows..
Regards the £1500 single stage, this price may seem somewhat inflated to you guys that make the units yourself, but when you take everything into account it works out just fine. I have sold quite a few of these puppies and I've not had any complaints so that speaks for itself in my opinion. Let's not forget, I was one of the first people in the UK to offer these units on the market some 4 years back.
For what it's worth, I am in the middle of revamping my phase section, and I have quite a few new products to announce - I'm confident the new pricing will reflect the highly competitive market.
I could say soemthing about someone talked of in here that is a uk builder, yes there prices are cheaper than Phill but you have to wait for 6 months, you get what ya given and get f about the whole time.
Thats said Phil gets you exactly what ya want and in uber quick time.
He just has to have legal units which add the cost as he is a shop, all the uk private builder don;t have to hense why they go fora lot less.
See my point, oh and sod off from spamming my pm box.
Brettbeck
03-18-2007, 05:07 AM
Pete, lets not forget about Ian. He sells the chilly1 units that are all fully built and ready to be shipped as soon as someone purchases one. They may not be built by himself, but you can't get any better than a unit built by chilly1.
Gray Mole
03-18-2007, 05:18 AM
Well I really wanted to show my support without getting involved in the business and politics behind it, but it's getting to a point where something has to be said.
Rapty, I appreciate that you think my work is good, and that you, as others do, appreciates the fact that there are builders that try to keep things inexpensive for the customers out there.
For the last couple of years, I've been quietly doing my thing best I can, and trying to focus more so on making units that are as attractive as they are functional. I've also expanded the range of options to include more 'personal' things like lighting effects and tuning to reflect everyone's independent view of what phase is for them.
I myself (as Pete keeps so 'kindly' pointing out :rolleyes: ) had some issues with my health, and had to have surgery on my hand. Through that I did what I could to keep things going, and keep people informed of everything that was going on. Most seemed to understand at the time, and I've gotten through it and I'm still doing what I do.
Prices - Most of us do this on the side, pay no vat, no tax, have no premises or overheads to speak of. Beyond that, if you charged for what you do at a reasonable refrigeration engineer's rate, you might also find that would reflect a more realistic level of cost to the buyer.
Example 1.
So I'm a private refrigeration contractor. I charge my time at £30 per hour, reflecting the fact that I pay tax, vat, and cover my own overheads. By the time we get rid of that sort of thing, I'm down to an impressive £10 per hour I actually get to keep, if that.
So on a V2000 build, I do 20 hours of work making the build look sweet. From the state of some of the V2000 builds I've had the 'pleasure' of seeing, it's apparent that 20 hours are NOT being spent, but I try to make sure that everything is perfect, so I'll use that as an example.
£30 x 20 hours. £600.
That's before the materials are being added to it.
I don't charge that much, but if you went to ANY firm in the UK you'd pay that, or more, and still not get the same job because they don't specialise in the field.
Example 2.
We may say that some of the builders are doing some really really nice work, and it's entirely true. Systems built that work well and look great.
They also have a warranty, don't they?
I'm not one to point fingers. However, there are examples of where private concerns are letting people down.
Private builders have problems, or move on, and where's your warranty?
Rapty, you're a very good example of this. Johann is moving back home. He hasn't really made any secret of it, and I think it's a real shame for the UK to lose someone of his talent in the phase department.
What if he moves, or if he's gotten close to it, and has no facillity for repairing a problem with your unit?
Fatty is planning his move back to Australia.
Jort went on to full time work, and it became a struggle for him to honor his warranty.
Chilly1 had some serious problems, and we all know what happened then.
Jinu had some problems, and is still working through them, to the detriment of his customers.
Pazza did some work for a few people that I know that have approached me about sorting things out for them, and wasn't willing to take care of it even though it was under guarantee.
I myself had issues with health as I said, and it delayed things for some people, though when it comes to warranty issues I take it pretty seriously.
I'm not trying to say anything bad about ANY builder here. I hope I don't get flooded with 'how dare you' in my PM box, I'm simply trying to illustrate this point.
Phil has been doing this for 4 years, with a clean record for service and support.
Example 3.
Profit, well let's look at that for a moment.
Without getting in depth, let's work out what we're making.
£500 for a unit for instance. £300 in material cost or so for it, so £200 profit right? Wrong, you ARE meant to be paying tax. Paying vat, etc.
So that's 30% in tax out the window, or £60. If you don't charge vat on that, you take vat off your profit. That's 17.5% of the full amount. That's another £87.50 off. Overheads, well let's say that at a volume of sales, £25 per unit goes in that direction.
£200, less the 172.50 in actual costs, is £27.50 in profit.
You might claw back the vat on £300 in materials, so that's 52.50.
Leaves you £80 for your profit, and the work involved.
So for anyone to start having a pop at Phil about his prices kind of irritates me because he's doing his thing all above board, giving warranty's that are fully backed, and paying the tax man for everything as well.
You start looking at things that way, and the prices involved don't really mean he's making a killing at all. He's being a LEGAL small business.
Conclusion.
Let's tie that all up together now.
V2000 mod, full warranty, all in the books.
£600 in labour.
£300 in materials.
£200 for the case.
That's £1100 in material costs, if you look at it from a business perspective.
If you charge, say, £2000 for it, what are you making?
Well you've got £900 in gross profit.
Take £300 right out of there for the tax man, and another £350 in vat off too.
You've got maybe £200 back from the vat if you can claim it back, so £550 in profit left. Still looks ok.
Then you've got overheads, so take £10 off for your insurance, £25 away for your rent, and keep taking chunks off to pay for phone, internet, etc etc etc etc and let's say that realistically you'll have maybe £400 left if you are very lucky.
What if you have to cover a warranty issue? What if there's some shipping damage and you cover that while waiting for the claim to go through? Keeping that in mind, what if the customer changes his mind before the 'cooling off' period and all of a sudden you've got the huge chunk of expense sitting in your shop that you don't have a buyer for?
My wife runs a small business, and I get to see it all, and occasionally have to divert money that I make into it to keep it going.
The prices of EP-UK are higher than a private guy charges. Yup, no question.
I will NOT tolerate anyone saying that he is ripping people off, or that he's drastically overpriced. He does this as his ONLY living and has to try to stay afloat. He has to pay for the work to be done, pay for his shop and his website, pay for everything that a small business has to pay for.
I don't know if it's possible for anyone to truly understand until they try to run a business here in the UK. When you work out your margins keeping all of the expenses in mind, set your prices to the best you can, while still making sure you won't go under tomorrow, and someone comes along and tells you you're ripping people off, how does that make you feel?
Those who know, will already be aware that I'm going to be working closely with EPUK soon as one of the Engineers that does modification and custom work for Phil. Is that why I'm posting this now? No. I've been saying this for the last 2 years, EPUK should always be a consideration and for the reasons I've stated.
You get a warranty that won't 'disappear' with the builder.
You get full service and support that you can count on.
You are legally protected if anything ever happens.
I suppose you're welcome to say what you like about things, but if you know anyone that's running a small business, and ask them about the costs and headaches that go along with running one, and then tell them that instead of them putting in your new boiler, for instance, you'll just get the 'guy down the road' to do it for a quarter of what he charges, maybe you'll get a clue of how that might feel.
I hope you guys understand where I'm coming from and why I'm posting this. I'm not normally argumentative at all. I just think that a level of fairness has to be observed when looking at small business, considering how many of us are involved with one. If it wasn't for them, a lot of us wouldn't have a job at all.
Cheers
Gray
Gray...one day I want to write posts like that :eek:
:toast: :fact: :clap:
sacha35
03-18-2007, 05:40 AM
Nice one Gray Well said.
Sacha
maverik-sg1
03-18-2007, 07:26 AM
Kudos to Gray Mole for adding a post that really does show where the money goes in the UK when you are running your own LEGITIMATE business rather than some part time gig from an enthusiast or engineer that happens to pay for a few beers on the night (a bit simplistic but you get my drift, not out to offend anyone when I say that).
I can tell you that Gray Mole has a very prominent point, not just from the very simple maths - but also the personal perspective from the people who can build phase units.
It's great when its a hobby - but when it becomes a business and all of a sudden you have the responsibility to supply and manage a number of builds, buying in stock, finding a place to put it etc etc etc.
I tell you sooner or later it gets to you and as Gray Mole has mentioned above, either the fun goes out of it and you stop doing it, you become ill and are unable to complete the tasks in acceptable time frames a number of other factors come into consideration.
I feel really disappointed that one guy can start flames here - it really is not in the spirit of the site.
People of course have choices and EPUK makes no secret of the fact that its not playing games - it offers the best products, performance or cosmetic at competitive prices. In addition offers bespoke packages and system builds.
So I think the answer is simple:
If like me you want to spend your hard earned money with repsectable company with proven sales history and proven ability to support it's products then there is an option.
If you want to buy something and pay for less than the true market value (I call it mates rates) then find a suitable supplier, pay your money and take your chance.
It really is that simple and in no way did this thread ever have to be like this.
Oh an have you looked here for a decent price product:
http://www.ep-uk.co.uk/acatalog/Prometeia_2.html
phil stanbridge
03-18-2007, 08:43 AM
Spoken from the heart Gray, thank you.
Big SturL
03-18-2007, 09:17 AM
But Phil, why not get a licence? Then you could build the units completely on your own, sell them cheaper, and make more money :)
kitfit1
03-18-2007, 09:19 AM
One of the most reasoned and well thought out explanations i think i've read in relation to small firms in the UK. Hat's off to you Gray Mole. As a self employed person myself, i find all your points familiar to my own situation. As would any small business.
maverik-sg1
03-18-2007, 11:47 AM
But Phil, why not get a licence? Then you could build the units completely on your own, sell them cheaper, and make more money :)
I think the answer is simple - time does not allow one man to run a successful business for over 4 years and build his own phase units. Putting all your eggs in one basket is a risky business as has been apparent by the number of one man builders that have had these issues.
Custom phase really is for the very extreme - Mach2GT machines really are good value for the beginner and intermediate sub-zero overclocker. I find that retail units such as these provide a sound base to work from and can be modded to be even more powerful when the time is right.
fatty
03-19-2007, 11:08 AM
Sorry I have not spoken earlier,
I too do or have done a lot of work for Phil I would say it has always been of top quality his warranty service is second to none.
Phil was not being supported by Nventiv when it was being taken over by ECT or even with some of the early Nventiv products yet he bore some or most of the costs when it came to warranties, there was a bad batch of control boards that went through the system that Phil replaced for free at his own costs just to keep his customers haappy...
I can't top all the things Grey Mole has mentioned, BUT I will say that even before I started modding and building phase systems it was Phil that traided my bog standard mach2 st for a mach2 at very little cost then he lost out on the resale of my unit.
His customer service is second to none and that is what this country realy lacks