slow leak

[Thrilla]

After finishing my first SS.... I found out there was a leak. At first I thought it was just the oil absorbing refrigerant, but the system dropped to 20psi from 110 static psi over the weekend.

[LostInSpace278]

You can try soapy water in a spray bottle.

[Thrilla]

it'll be difficult to clean the soap in between the condenser fins though.

[potkit]

woa did you try to lght the refrigerant? thats a nono
go to the refrigerant shop and ask for a liquid that mixes with oil and it can be seen with UV light

[kayl]

did you pressure leak the evap and suction line, thats normally where they occur, or on compressor fittings specially if they are steel.
to find leaks i normally inspec each and every join with a torch (light) look for tinny pin holes ;)

[Exahertz]

to find leaks i normally inspec each and every join with a torch (light) look for tinny pin holes ;)

what kind of torch? i was told that some gasses burn almost invisible, so when the refrigerant burns you would see it easily.

[Thrilla]

Propane burns with a visible yellow flame so it should be good. I will check all the joints tomorrow perhaps in a dark ventilated room.

Is leaking 90psi over 3 days considered fast or slow? The system has a 1/2 rotary, a 10" dual layer condenser and about 500mL of desuperheater.

[Exahertz]

do you know the refrigerant weight/volume you charge in it??? still sound large

[Thrilla]

I have no clue :(
Will I be able to see trace of oil splatter since the propane is inside the oil already?

[wdrzal]

spray soapy water(dish soap) like you have been told on every joint you made,leaks don't occur in the middle of a tube unless dammaged. wait for bubbles from spraying diminish and watch for a single bubble to slowly grow(slow leak) 90 psi is a good size leak

you shouldn't have more than 8 to 12 braze joints, if leaving manifold on over night consider it or the hoses also may be leaking,also test valve cores.

[{.bLanK} GoD]

If you leak test a flammable refrigerant with a flame (which i do not recommend btw) make sure you don't test the low side while its running in a vacume. lol

[Thrilla]

NoL told me about the hose leak so I never let it stay connected except when I'm testing/charging. Thanks for the details for soap testing, and valve core, never thought about it. There about 6 joints on my SS.

I grew up a pyromaniac lol, but thanks for the warning =P

[wdrzal]

Gases have flammability limits,(upper and lower) chances are a small leak is below the lower limit, Not to mention EXTREMELY dangerous trying to find a leak with fire.

[Carlz0r]

Gases have flammability limits,(upper and lower) chances are a small leak is below the lower limit, Not to mention EXTREMELY dangerous trying to find a leak with fire.
Yeah. It's like trying to figure out how deep a stick of dynamite is by pushing the ignitor.

[Exahertz]

well if you are going to leak test with a torch,make sure that its a fresh and very clean charge. you seem to have a signifigant leak and you dont know ware it is. the leak may have sucked air in with the r290 if its on the low side (if its been ran). if conditions are good the torch flame could start a chemical reaction and blow up in you face! be careful

[runmc]

Yeah. It's like trying to figure out how deep a stick of dynamite is by pushing the ignitor.

Man you couldn't have made a better comparison. :rofl:

I'm sure there are a few who will say they leak test with a flame every day and it's perfectly safe. Well - I don't agree. I also don't agree with posting foolishly dangerous ideas on an open forum where kids can get ideas from them. As stated above there are other industry approved methods of finding leaks. Us any method that turns you on , but only discuss industry approved methods on these forums. Consider this a warning to anyone who reads it.

[Exahertz]

EPA 608 certification manual states:

SECTION IV: SERVICE PRACTICES
Leak-Testing Techniques

A halide-torch leak detector depends on its flame changing color as halide is detected. It is not a very practical method of leak testing because the flame-color change requires a rather significant leak. Invest in an electronic leak detector, and send the torch leak detector to the museum.

[runmc]

EPA 608 certification manual states:

SECTION IV: SERVICE PRACTICES
Leak-Testing Techniques

A halide-torch leak detector depends on its flame changing color as halide is detected. It is not a very practical method of leak testing because the flame-color change requires a rather significant leak. Invest in an electronic leak detector, and send the torch leak detector to the museum.

Is this a random fact your posting or do you think it's relavent to leak testing for propane with an open flame or are you trying to contradict what I said? Maybe I didn't spell out what I posted clearly enough.


Halide Torch
A halide torch is an inexpensive leak detector that is fast and reliable, but can only be used to detect chlorinated refrigerants. It can be used to detect leaks as small as ½ ounce per year.

A halide torch works on the principle that air is drawn over a copper element heated by a hydrocarbon fuel. If halogenated refrigerant vapors are present, the flame changes from a blue pictures of halide torch color to a bluish green color.

It is not as sensitive as electronic leak detectors and is somewhat awkward and could be dangerous because of the open flame.
What does this have to do with looking for a propane leak with a torch?

[LukeXE]

don`t think so that testing for leaks with open flame is good idea, really soapy method won`t work in that case ? Leak on condenser, between fins ? Pressure it and test under water.

[wdrzal]

EPA 608 certification manual states:

SECTION IV: SERVICE PRACTICES
Leak-Testing Techniques

A halide-torch leak detector depends on its flame changing color as halide is detected. It is not a very practical method of leak testing because the flame-color change requires a rather significant leak. Invest in an electronic leak detector, and send the torch leak detector to the museum.

Goes to show how much these guys taking online certs, minds well shove them.:rolleyes:


A halidie leak dector uses another torch head ALMOST like a regular torch but the major differance is there is a 3 foot tube that draws air in ,or air and halogenated refrigerant thru if there is a leak . To use, light torch and set it 2 feet away,then take rubber tube and hold by joints, If halogenated is presant in the flame on the torch will change color. it takes awhile for the neg pressure to draw through the line up to 30sec to 60 seonds

These do not detect HC gases propane is one of them.

here one that monts on a regular 14oz propane bottle, the 3 foot tube is missing it goes on the stem pointed backward.. the funny part is the guy wants 150.00 on ebay, I seen most sell for 2 to 5 dollars.

A old tecnoligly ,best place if for the trash.

[wdrzal]

don`t think so that testing for leaks with open flame is good idea, really soapy method won`t work in that case ? Leak on condenser, between fins ? Pressure it and test under water.


luke there are no joints between fins, like I said unless severly damaged tubes don't get holes in the middle.

If I was betting on someone just learning to braze,I would bet 99% of the time it a joint he brazed or a valve near the heat he ruined by over heating

[Exahertz]

Well, thanks for the info. I never used a torch to check for leaks and I don’t think I ever will. So I guess I should have figured that a halide torch is only for halides, duh... I rushed and copy/pasted that straight from an EPA manual I had that said you can use a "torch". Sorry to cause such hard feelings. I'm no expert, hell I haven’t even built one ss yet. I got 608 so I can buy the stuff I need and not get fined for using it. at least I’m safe, I’m getting the tools that you guys have suggested, and I’m not going to kill my self making one of these. Thank you all for being so concerned with safety. I'm glad to see it's an issue. I've seen many dangerous things, and learned from them. Fire, unregulated pressurized flammable gas and inexperience don’t mix. all I can say is: Thrilla, if your gonna attempt this, do it out in a field at night with low wind, ware long sleeves a hat and safety glasses, add just enough propane to bring the pressure up to its maximum (don’t let it liquefy), don’t make the troche’s feather 6" long, all you need is a little flame, and keep a water hose or fire extinguisher near by (please). If you’re careful, the worst you would do is creating a fireworks display and not a bomb. But hopefully you find your leak.

[runmc]

Well, thanks for the info. I never used a torch to check for leaks and I don’t think I ever will. So I guess I should have figured that a halide torch is only for halides, duh... I rushed and copy/pasted that straight from an EPA manual I had that said you can use a "torch". Sorry to cause such hard feelings. I'm no expert, hell I haven’t even built one ss yet. I got 608 so I can buy the stuff I need and not get fined for using it. at least I’m safe, I’m getting the tools that you guys have suggested, and I’m not going to kill my self making one of these. Thank you all for being so concerned with safety. I'm glad to see it's an issue. I've seen many dangerous things, and learned from them. Fire, unregulated pressurized flammable gas and inexperience don’t mix. all I can say is: Thrilla, if your gonna attempt this, do it out in a field at night with low wind, ware long sleeves a hat and safety glasses, add just enough propane to bring the pressure up to its maximum (don’t let it liquefy), don’t make the troche’s feather 6" long, all you need is a little flame, and keep a water hose or fire extinguisher near by (please). If you’re careful, the worst you would do is creating a fireworks display and not a bomb. But hopefully you find your leak.

I appreciate your humbleness and honesty. I have made some very foolish mistakes in my phase change life. I apologize for being such an a$$ about safety, but I don't want to see anyone get hurt. I have come very close to getting burned with propane it's not even funny.:(

[boshuter]

I appreciate your humbleness and honesty. I have made some very foolish mistakes in my phase change life. I apologize for being such an a$$ about safety, but I don't want to see anyone get hurt. I have come very close to getting burned with propane it's not even funny.:(

I've come pretty close myself ;) Last summer I was going to shorten the cap tube on a propane charged chiller and got in a hurry... I completely forgot to remove the charge :eek: I put the torch to the cap tube to unbraze it from the filter with a 75psi static charge still in the system :nono: When the braze melted it shot out a small flash ball that suprised the crap out of me, luckily I didn't have my face close enough for it to hit my eyes, it did singe the hair off my hand holding the torch though.... I believe propane is a safe gas to use, BUT, you do need to pay attention to what you are doing and be careful ;)

[runmc]

I've come pretty close myself ;) Last summer I was going to shorten the cap tube on a propane charged chiller and got in a hurry... I completely forgot to remove the charge :eek: I put the torch to the cap tube to unbraze it from the filter with a 75psi static charge still in the system :nono: When the braze melted it shot out a small flash ball that suprised the crap out of me, luckily I didn't have my face close enough for it to hit my eyes, it did singe the hair off my hand holding the torch though.... I believe propane is a safe gas to use, BUT, you do need to pay attention to what you are doing and be careful ;)

This is exactly my point.

My mistake was just as innocent, but just as deadly :slapass: If at all possible it is best to stay away from it. Even the best have a bad day.