id & epic, multi-platform due to piracy...

[DilTech]

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/46079


Across two separate lectures at this week's Game Developers Conference, id Software CEO Todd Hollenshead and Epic Games president Michael Capps both admitted that piracy of PC games caused their companies to pursue developing beyond the PC platform. "Piracy has pushed id as being multiplatform," stated Hollenshead, whose company contracted Z-Axis to handle the PlayStation 3 version and Nerve Software the Xbox 360 edition of Splash Damage's forthcoming Enemy Territory: Quake Wars (PC).

Comments made by Epic's Capps carried a similar tone. "PC gaming is really falling apart," he revealed. "It killed us to make Unreal Tournament 3 cross-platform, but Epic had to do it," adding "the market that would buy a $600 video card knows how Bittorrent works." Epic is currently developing Unreal Tournament 3 for the PC, PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 in-house.

Meanwhile, Firaxis designer and programmer Soren Johnson remained confident in PC development. He suggested that "game design on the PC is going to bend toward persistence," noting Blizzard's World of Warcraft is "successful because you can't pirate WoW. You cannot pirate an MMO. Period."

[squilliam]

You can pirate an MMO... It just isn't as wonderful.

[[XC] leviathan18]

there are pirate servers out there for wow....


i dont mind paying 50$ for a good game i hate to pay 50$ for a :banana::banana::banana::banana:ty game... i bought in disscount onimusha 3 and devil may cry 3 for pc both ps2 ports and old games even the games were bad ports but i didnt mind at all because both games are great i dont mind to pay for something if waht im paying for worth the money....

[mion]

Here's one advanage of pirated game over the one thay you pay for, you don't need cd in optical drive all the time to play it.

[Repoman]

You don't need it for a payed for game either...

gamecopyworld.com

[Sneil]

Here's one advanage of pirated game over the one thay you pay for, you don't need cd in optical drive all the time to play it.

Yes that is no advantage. I used no-cd/dvd cracks for all my retail games I paid for.

[Thorry]

After buying the videocard I need to play those games my pockets aren't deep enough to buy any games... :(

[perkam]

lol some posts here are bordering on confessions...lets remember kids, pirating = not a GOOD thing.

Perkam

[Anonymous]

Sadly, we have $600 videocards and if you really think/look at it, how many block buster PC games do you see in the pipeline that will use all that power? I never thought the PC gaming industry would be killed off by piracy untill a few years ago when I saw the trend of PC exclusives slowly trickle to MMOs and online shooters. Now, all titles I personaly think would make great PC games (Mass Effect) will be console only.

[nn_step]

lol some posts here are bordering on confessions...lets remember kids, pirating = not a GOOD thing.

Perkam

honestly my view of things is try something and if you don't like it, don't use it.
However I have tried applications and found that I liked them enough to buy them. The theory is if it is a good product you would be willing to pay for it, if you don't like it and then you shouldn't use it.

[vudoodoodoo]

If you make good games, they will come (pay).

[highoctane]

Yup, piracy is going to be the downfall of PC gaming. However anymore I would imagine consoles have a much larger target audience, graphics are now on par with or better than a majority of PC's with 1080p consoles, and pirating console games usually requires chipping the console AFAIK so its not as easy for the avg joe.

With broadband so widespread now and p2p being so simple a five year old can be called peg leg and wear a patch its no wonder gaming developers have to make changes, current copy protections just are not much of a deterence anymore.

The last console I owned was a PS1 so its sad for me to see things starting to shift towards consoles but I can definitely understand why.

[falqon]

Console migration is for a lot more reasons then the are willing to admit.

Don't get me wrong, if I like it, I'll buy it, so I'm not saying they deserve it, but wow what a lot of crap. Often times they get paid to produce for a console, not to mention the relative ease that it is to make a console game compared to a PC. The costs over time are less, it's common to patch a pc game 2 or 3 years after release, doesn't happen with a console. And finally, ever year a lot more consoles are sold, it's a huge market that's only going to continue to grow.

The worst part of it is, this is their shortsighted "fix" for piracy? If PC's get phased out, do they really think that piracy will go away? Have they never seen a hacked Xbox, gamecube or PS2? Sure you won't be able to pirate games that you sign on to xbox live with and play with all of your friends on a console, but the single player experience is inevitable, just like PC's. The problem is exactly the same, just the saturation hasn't caught up.

The real truth is the market for $600 video cards is very small, they're going where the money is.

[perkam]

honestly my view of things is try something and if you don't like it, don't use it.
However I have tried applications and found that I liked them enough to buy them. The theory is if it is a good product you would be willing to pay for it, if you don't like it and then you shouldn't use it.

A tad ignorant there, trial software exists for same exact reason, you cannot equate pirating software to "trying it out", thats like stealing cars from dealerships without them knowing and paying for it afterwards because you "feel like" its worth the price.

Perkam

[DoubleZero]

Yup, piracy is going to be the downfall of PC gaming.

Games were pirated long before music and movies, long before... and as today the game industry is making more money then the music and movie industry, so yes piracy is going to be the downfall of pc gaming :slapass:
They are whining like RIAA whines like mpaa whines, like Latrell Sprewell whined whe he refused a 8 million per year contract, saying he needed to feed his children...
Id & epic went multi-platform because there's money to be made in the others platforms, not because of piracy :stick:

[nn_step]

A tad ignorant there, trial software exists for same exact reason, you cannot equate pirating software to "trying it out", thats like stealing cars from dealerships without them knowing and paying for it afterwards because you "feel like" its worth the price.

Perkam

if companies are willing to put out demo software then such activities can be completely avoided.

[STEvil]

Close, except you havent actually taken a physical product.

There's too much crap out there :(

[highoctane]

Games were pirated long before music and movies, long before...

Lets see how long has the music industry existed in comparison to the electronics gaming industry, todays elders must have some stories of pirating games since the days of punch cards I guess. :slap:

and as today the game industry is making more money then the music and movie industry, so yes piracy is going to be the downfall of pc gaming :slapass:

And this claim is based on what, exactly how much more money is today's gaming industry making in comparison to the music and movie industry since you obviously know this already, I'm really curious. :stick:

[grimREEFER]

having a really good multiplayer mode usually staves off ppl from pirating things

[Speederlander]

Seriously, if anyone downloads a retail game against the wishes of the people who deveolped it/are selling it, the person so downloading is a thief. They are stealing from the people who made the game and then justifying it in any which way seems easy or makes them feel better. But theft is theft.

[Speederlander]

if companies are willing to put out demo software then such activities can be completely avoided.

Ummm...except for the people who want the game without paying for it. And there are lots of them. Just like there are lots of people who want music and movies without paying for them.

[irev210]

The reason why i hate console and love PC is because of game prices!


Most games I can find on-sale for 34.99 or 39.99 where as their XBOX 360 counterpart costs 59.99.


To me, it is the consoles that are ripping us off blind, and the PC is the holy grail of gaming today. Yes, I like my mouse/keyboard and 1920x1200.


The biggest thing that gets me today is how we spend 59.99 on a 6 map episode like Gears of War or Ghost Recon 2.

Then there are games like Company of Heroes, etc where I spent 39.99 and the game came loaded with about 12-15 great levels of action, plus excellent online play.

[NapalmV5]

lol @ their comments about pc gaming/piracy/$600 video card

can they get anymore lame?


this is getting so old, again, blaming it on 'piracy'.. its pathetic

if they really want a piracy free world they could stop it now/could've stopped it long ago

they dont want to pay up for anti-piracy ;)

[DoubleZero]

Lets see how long has the music industry existed in comparison to the electronics gaming industry, todays elders must have some stories of pirating games since the days of punch cards I guess. :slap:

I think it was pretty obvious that id & epic were talking about p2p, well at least i thought it was obvious...

And this claim is based on what, exactly how much more money is today's gaming industry making in comparison to the music and movie industry since you obviously know this already

I also know that there's a war going on in Iraque... yes another claim of mine.

I'm really curious. :stick:

Google :stick:

[Cuthalu]

Yep, that's more like propaganda than real assesment of the current situation. Good games sell WELL even without copy protection, and they know it. Just trying to make people feel bad about pirating so that they would get even more $$. Besides, piracy is a double edged sword, just like studies have shown: among other, some negative aspects, piracy does also generate income for developers in the form of free advertising.

Of course buying games is a good thing, but it's just stupid to exaggerate overall impact of piracy.


Edit: some facts to the table:

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6164101.html

Last month, retailers racked up $1.7 billion in game sales, a 5.4 percent increase over December 2005. While sales of games for the recently released Nintendo Wii and the PlayStation 3 added to the tally, console software sales overall were virtually unchanged, up only about .5 percent. However, last month's portable game sales showed significantly more growth over December 2005, as they cumulatively jumped 18.8 percent to $521.6 million.

[Revv23]

^^^how does portable sales have anything to do with pc gaming?

nobody bought ID's latest games because doom3 engine was a total bummer.

As for epic, UT sells extremly well, i remember when UT04 came out the special edition was sold out after the first day, going for $59 too.

Point im making is same as everyone else, while pirating is still an issue, thats not why they are developing for other platforms, they are chasing the money that is in other platforms.

For example, epic has what 3 titles already for Xbox 360 using the unreal 3 engine? How many for PC? a big zero. the reasons for moving are simple, and it just so happens that its a bit harder to pirate on a console.

Also, the people with $600 videocards aren't the ones stealing unreal tournament.

On a side note - IMO pirates are most of the time people who would have never payed in the first place. So they are not really a lost customer but an expansion to the user base.

[[XC] gomeler]

The recent wave of open betas and trial versions of games have been great and have helped curb piracy on the PC. I know a lot of people that played the demo for SupCom and purchased the game because they loved the gameplay. I also know a bunch of people that played the C&C3 demo and absolutely hate it and won't be playing it. It helps us make an informed decision w/o having to pirate the software. Just make the online play worth the time and require accounts with CD-Keys and you are set.

[Torkain]

A tad ignorant there, trial software exists for same exact reason, you cannot equate pirating software to "trying it out", thats like stealing cars from dealerships without them knowing and paying for it afterwards because you "feel like" its worth the price.

Perkam

As nn said, if everything had trial versions (that fully worked, I don't understand trial software that limits most of it's functionality), that's acceptable. Thankfully, there are few games, or software, out there that I'd want so buying those few aren't a problem.

The car analogy is extremely wrong and the correct one goes against your argument. Most car dealers, as long as you don't have a deadbeat credit score, will let you test drive that car for a day or more. You know, to see if you want to actually buy it or not.

Lets see how long has the music industry existed in comparison to the electronics gaming industry, todays elders must have some stories of pirating games since the days of punch cards I guess. :slap:

Games existed before the internet became mainstream. :stick: As it was previously said, they are talking about pirating this stuff online. Games were shared between people before the internet, too. Pirating has been happening for decades.

I agree with what was previously said, they are just using this excuse to explain the cross-platform issue. There are some die hard PC gamers who hate seeing stuff ported to consoles and they are trying to explain it without saying, "We want the money that is in consoles, as well."

[thunderstruck!]

Who would download a copy of UT3 if you can't play online. :rolleyes:

[Chewbenator]

I will always play games on my PC, and at the rate consoles are going 2 out of three are out of touch of what gamers want anyway.

[turbox997]

Big hits exist out there for a reason.

Counterstrike was one of them(I'm mainly focusing on version 1.6 and below). I'm not aware if you can actually pirate that game because of the unique cd key that's verified each time you log on, but I think some*(not all because some are valid excuses imo) software companies are making lame excuses.

Many, including I would pay for Counterstrike, and especially for such a reasonable price IMO.

[Speederlander]

I agree with what was previously said, they are just using this excuse to explain the cross-platform issue. There are some die hard PC gamers who hate seeing stuff ported to consoles and they are trying to explain it without saying, "We want the money that is in consoles, as well."
Yeah, that must be it. All the video game companies are in a big conspiracy together to lie because they are afraid of offending the die-hard gamers by making non-PC games. That makes sense.

[LOE]

lol some posts here are bordering on confessions...lets remember kids, pirating = not a GOOD thing.

Perkam

thats something rather relative
it depends on the point of view

i really hate rich people that pirate, I know quite a few americans that do pirate, and thats pathetic, having in mind life standart there.

however people who cannot afford a software wound't buy it anyway, so software devs aren't really loosing anything
and the least they gain is recognition for their work

[Warship]

A tad ignorant there, trial software exists for same exact reason, you cannot equate pirating software to "trying it out", thats like stealing cars from dealerships without them knowing and paying for it afterwards because you "feel like" its worth the price.

Perkam

Well Perkam, the problem is that trial software is oftentimes severely handicapped versions of the retail software.

You wouldn't buy a car if you couldn't test it properly, now would you?

[G3XC]

Becouse of pirates Funcom will not release offline games anymore.

Source (http://e24.no/it/it/article1688249.ece)

It's in Norwegian.

[fhpchris]

Here's one advanage of pirated game over the one thay you pay for, you don't need cd in optical drive all the time to play it.

They only need to put it out on Steam and alot of the piracy will not happen...

[xB0n3s]

I hope I can play Enemy Territory: Quake Wars cause currently I can't even run Quake 4 :rolleyes:

[Speederlander]

Well Perkam, the problem is that trial software is oftentimes severely handicapped versions of the retail software.

You wouldn't buy a car if you couldn't test it properly, now would you?

And would you take a car for a test drive by stealing it off the lot?

[Revv23]

They only need to put it out on Steam and alot of the piracy will not happen...

^^ This is a good point, i hated steam at first but it is actually quite a slick setup.

I was kind of surprised Vista didn't come with a steam like app to manage/update all of your games... It would make sense.

Nothing annoys me more then when i haven't played BF in a month and because of that i have to download two new 500mb patches.

[LOE]

Well you are not stealing software from the store they sell it :)

Software and hardware are totally different and cannot be compared in this situation.

If only we could download cars images, copy them ot 50 cent media and the use it :D Cracked cars probably wont run that good. MS cars will need some rebooting once in a while

[Speederlander]

Software and hardware are totally different and cannot be compared in this situation.
Other than the ease of stealing one with respect to the other, please explain exactly how they are totally different and why they can't be compared. Seems to me that the only difference is people can get away with it much easier on one so they do it. Many of these people don't like to think of themselves as stealing though so they come up with a range of excuses, but it is what it is.

[Revv23]

It's attitude's like LOE's that makes piracy worse. Just because the media is cheap doesn't mean it was cheap to make the software.

i was thinking about NN's point, the only time i have ever had the desire to steal software is when there is no good demo avialable. Certainly this isn't the case for everyone, but it could help.

Maybe game devs should start shipping those USB keys with games. I guess those would be cracked too...

I would be OK with an online activation system as long as it let you deactivate and install on other machines an unlimited number of times... (imo windows activation should be this way too.)

[fhpchris]

It's attitude's like LOE's that makes piracy worse. Just because the media is cheap doesn't mean it was cheap to make the software.

i was thinking about NN's point, the only time i have ever had the desire to steal software is when there is no good demo avialable. Certainly this isn't the case for everyone, but it could help.

Maybe game devs should start shipping those USB keys with games. I guess those would be cracked too...

I would be OK with an online activation system as long as it let you deactivate and install on other machines an unlimited number of times... (imo windows activation should be this way too.)

Again, steam works very well in this respect. The only time HL2 was "cracked" and was able to work without a legitimate key, Valve started banning people.

People on steam had entire accounts full of games banned, and all they could do is go out and buy the game again...

Steam also has free demos/trials and betas of games from time to time.

I hate to say it, but steam works very well, except for the slowest download times ever. I only wish there was a way to install the games from a local backup :(

[LOE]

I personally don;t like the idea of buying games. Most of the games have like 4-6 hours of gameplay, and then they turn completely useless.

Online RPGs like WOW and fable are just a waste of time, games where you don;t get better by beeing better, but by wasting your life seem stupid to me

The only games I have bought are quake series and COD2, the games I use to play online from time to time

I wonder how many people would buy cars if you can use it for 6 hours and then it turns out to be useless...

Music is different thing - but when it comes to music you simply cannot have enough respect for it;s creator, cause like 90% of the money goes to the recording comapany and only a small % goes to artists.

Software - if you make money out of it you should buy it. If you are just toying with some expensive apps whats the point of buying it, when you won't be using it.

There was another piracy topic a while ago, about piracy beeing good. I also share this oppinion. I can admit all I know today I have learned using pirated software, I don't think anyone has lost anything while I was teaching myself how to use maya, zbrush or photoshop. 10x to piracy I was able to learn software that is simply TOO expensive to buy just to play with it,for example autodesk maya that costs about 9000$ here. Now instead of beeing a cab driver I am working in the CG industry. Noone lost anything...

[Speederlander]

I personally don;t like the idea of buying games. Most of the games have like 4-6 hours of gameplay, and then they turn completely useless.

Online RPGs like WOW and fable are just a waste of time, games where you don;t get better by beeing better, but by wasting your life seem stupid to me

The only games I have bought are quake series and COD2, the games I use to play online from time to time

I wonder how many people would buy cars if you can use it for 6 hours and then it turns out to be useless...

Music is different thing - but when it comes to music you simply cannot have enough respect for it;s creator, cause like 90% of the money goes to the recording comapany and only a small % goes to artists.

Software - if you make money out of it you should buy it. If you are just toying with some expensive apps whats the point of buying it, when you won't be using it.

There was another piracy topic a while ago, about piracy beeing good. I also share this oppinion. I can admit all I know today I have learned using pirated software, I don't think anyone has lost anything while I was teaching myself how to use maya, zbrush or photoshop. 10x to piracy I was able to learn software that is simply TOO expensive to buy just to play with it,for example autodesk maya that costs about 9000$ here. Now instead of beeing a cab driver I am working in the CG industry. Noone lost anything...

Nothing but a series of rationalizations for being a thief. If I was a hiring manager or HR, and I knew you maintained that point of view, I would never trust you to work for my company. If you can rationalize stealing everything you outlined above, you can rationalize stealing just about anything, including my company's proprietary software, confidential information and trade secrets or even money.

[Revv23]

I personally don;t like the idea of buying games. Most of the games have like 4-6 hours of gameplay, and then they turn completely useless.

Online RPGs like WOW and fable are just a waste of time, games where you don;t get better by beeing better, but by wasting your life seem stupid to me

The only games I have bought are quake series and COD2, the games I use to play online from time to time

I wonder how many people would buy cars if you can use it for 6 hours and then it turns out to be useless...

Music is different thing - but when it comes to music you simply cannot have enough respect for it;s creator, cause like 90% of the money goes to the recording comapany and only a small % goes to artists.

Software - if you make money out of it you should buy it. If you are just toying with some expensive apps whats the point of buying it, when you won't be using it.

There was another piracy topic a while ago, about piracy beeing good. I also share this oppinion. I can admit all I know today I have learned using pirated software, I don't think anyone has lost anything while I was teaching myself how to use maya, zbrush or photoshop. 10x to piracy I was able to learn software that is simply TOO expensive to buy just to play with it,for example autodesk maya that costs about 9000$ here. Now instead of beeing a cab driver I am working in the CG industry. Noone lost anything...


we aren't talking about thousand dollar applications we are talking about games. Games are cheap. it takes alot of people and alot of hard work to make one. If you don't want to pay for it. Then you should not play it. I'm all for try before you buy, but if you don't plan on buying, get rid of it.

As for photshop the older PS's were easy to crack becasue they wanted everyone who couldn't afford it to have it, that way when they got into the CG industry they would already know how to use it, thus making it a standard. I think this is still the case for maya and such...

however, these days there is a cheap version of photoshop that you should pony up for.

[KJatl]

On a side note - IMO pirates are most of the time people who would have never payed in the first place. So they are not really a lost customer but an expansion to the user base.

Agreed completely. I know I've downloaded games I was curious about, installed, played for a few minutes, realized it was not for me, uninstalled and moved on. Should I have been required to pay $40-60 to try a game just long enough to know for sure that I didn't like it?

[LOE]

If I was a hiring manager or HR, and I knew you maintained that point of view, I would never trust you to work for my company.

I guess you will never be a hiring manager or HR with that kind of thinking.

I just don't see any way of learning a 9000$ app without having it. And I don't think anyone here will spend 9000$ on a software he has no idea of, no serius intentions and just wants to get into, even only due to curiosity.

As I said, if you are making money out of it you should buy it. As simple as that.

I bet the majority of users here have pirated software, movies or music, even thou some woundn't admit. Those who can afford it, and steal it anyway - theese are the real pirates.

On a side note - IMO pirates are most of the time people who would have never payed in the first place. So they are not really a lost customer but an expansion to the user base.

that was my point

[Speederlander]

I guess you will never be a hiring manager or HR with that kind of thinking.
You obviously have no concept of intellectual property, copyright laws, business ethics, or basic corporate security, so believe what you like.

If I found out someone in my engineering dept was going online and advocating the theft of corporate secrets (for example), they would find themselves working as a receptionist until they decided to quit. I wouldn't let them near our CAD files or R&D files again. They would be done.

I just don't see any way of learning a 9000$ app without having it. And I don't think anyone here will spend 9000$ on a software he has no idea of, no serius intentions and just wants to get into, even only due to curiosity.
$9000 apps? This thread was focused on games, was expanded slightly to include various other software types, and you are using $9000 apps to make your point? First, almost all "$9000" apps have demos or stripped down free versions. Second, if the company that made it doesn't have a demo or free version, that doesn't give you a right to steal their full version. Sorry, it just doesn't. They have the rights. You don't. If you take it anyway, it is theft.

As I said, if you are making money out of it you should buy it. As simple as that.
And the rest is free? Are you labeling the people with pirated Windows thieves? With torrented music? With cracked games? If you are, then we are making progress.

I bet the majority of users here have pirated software, movies or music, even thou some woundn't admit.
Of course not. They stole it. No one wants to think of themself as a thief.

Those who can afford it, and steal it anyway - theese are the real pirates.
I can't afford a $100,000 BMW. Does that mean if I steal it I am not a thief? That car took a lot of money to develop just like most software took a lot of money to develop. You can't define theft as being dependent on your being able to afford the item you are stealing. Because it is still theft.

[revenant]

9k apps aside.. it's pretty lame that people with $$ still feel the need to prirate games.. I can't even remember the last time I played a pirated game.. it's been many /many/ years.. anyways, I think anyone who spends 600 on a video card.. or two of them.. and all the rest of the 1337 stuff we cram into our cases can/should be able to afford to buy games to support the peeps who make the cool software we like to run on our supercharged pcs.. I guess I'll have to go console if PC gaming really does fall apart.. but I would really prefer to remain a PC gamer.. perhaps they're painting a more dreary picture of the situation than it really is.. maybe their just wanting to turn more profit and blaming the multi platform switch on piracy? hrm.. well, if PC gaming does fall apart it's going to be a sad freakin day for me. . . and I bet a lot of others also..

edit: perhaps more r and d needs to be done on copy protection? like make memory stick keys for the game? small inexpensive usb flash drives with a unique memory size and with hard coded keys on them for each game.. I know there will always be a way to crack a game, but just make it a pita to run the hacked games.. or something like that.. gah. who knows.. prolly been though of..

[h@RRy]

I'm sorry, not to be a troll or anything but I respectfully disagree with ALOT of you...(93%)
The reason why PC gaming is dying is because for the most the content makers are punishing the people that *are* the paying customers, meaning the fanboi's, the technically competent although casual gamer, and *gasp* the mod makers...people have been pirating since before the TRS-80 but did dev houses stop making games? No. Did publishers stop publishing games? No.(although they were the developer in a lot of those cases creating an even GREATER loss for them,hence, making this bar in my point stronger)
Now lets look at all of these groups in order:

Fanboi -- Now we all know this dude, at some point we might have even *been* this dude; all the same, the fanboi keeps the hype going, trolls places all day that they can get new info on the "great game" that will be released in 1-2 years. 1-2 years goes by, the community activity for that game is at it's peak then *BOOM* features get cut...features created that fanboi to begin with for said game. Fanboi bites, thinking at some point a mod will be released(I'll get to this in a second) or a patch(and this one to...)
etc. At least they have the pretty screenshots to look at with reveries of 60+FPS goodness that they have upgraded their rig for the promise or experiencing(I'll get to this one to...). OK, now the game gets pushed back, fanboi is pissed, but understanding as they *might* appreciate what goes into making a quality title, the sell the other community members(non-fanboi's) on how much better the game will be now *even* though features were cut...The best part! Release day! Fanboi runs to store or pulls out credit card to make an online purchase, mission complete, fanboi now has the game in possession, let the carnage begin...fanboi installs, game runs like :banana::banana::banana::banana:e, buggy AI, etc(INSERT_DRAMA_HERE). Now the same fanboi that celebrated (INSERT_GAME_HERE) is utterly disappointed, game is buggy, then the forum whining/ flaming/ "THIS GAME SUCKS, etc" begins...If you read through this in it's entirety then thank you:D

Although it's not over because when I take lunch I'll talk the next sullen actor in this tragedy...
The casual gamer who is technically competent...AKA the LAST customer type you want to piss off...

[Revv23]

9k apps aside.. it's pretty lame that people with $$ still feel the need to prirate games.. I can't even remember the last time I played a pirated game.. it's been many /many/ years.. anyways, I think anyone who spends 600 on a video card.. or two of them.. and all the rest of the 1337 stuff we cram into our cases can/should be able to afford to buy games to support the peeps who make the cool software we like to run on our supercharged pcs.. I guess I'll have to go console if PC gaming really does fall apart.. but I would really prefer to remain a PC gamer.. perhaps they're painting a more dreary picture of the situation than it really is.. maybe their just wanting to turn more profit and blaming the multi platform switch on piracy? hrm.. well, if PC gaming does fall apart it's going to be a sad freakin day for me. . . and I bet a lot of others also..

edit: perhaps more r and d needs to be done on copy protection? like make memory stick keys for the game? small inexpensive usb flash drives with a unique memory size and with hard coded keys on them for each game.. I know there will always be a way to crack a game, but just make it a pita to run the hacked games.. or something like that.. gah. who knows.. prolly been though of..

FHP makes a good point, steam is the best anti piracy tool in the world.

[n91htmare]

Make games that people loved and enjoyed.

The one and only game, that I literally gave up food, sleep for was Diablo I/II.
I'm sorry but if you're gonna make crapy games, no ones gonna buy em.

I still want Diablo III....

[OmegaMerc]

I call BS, this is a ploy to make them look like the victims, and everyone else like the bad guys. You distribute to multi-platforms to create a greater demand and awareness of a product so when you release the sequel (if there is one) there will be even more notoriety and more sales.

One of capitalisms byproduct is piracy, not everyone can afford everything that comes out unfortunately. For whatever reason the industry believes that the first ever affected market is the PC. Don't know about you guys but I remember bootleg audio cassettes and VHS everywhere back in the late 80s / early 90s, not to mention music CDs since the first day they were released, and the ability to buy them was a mere walk or car ride. Shifting the walk or car ride to a more centralized location (internet) doesn't make it easier, nor does it call for *everyone* to obtain *everything* and form this mass conspiracy against conglomerate companies. There seems to be mass hysteria among the cigar smoking pin stripes that the internet focuses the most evil desire in people, a Robin Hood effect if you must.

I think what centralization of content does create is a shift towards more consumer knowledge. Your able to peer into products you would never look into and form your educated opinion if you want to invest in it through demo or trials or otherwise. This allows consumers to really have a better control onto where they invest their hard earned cash. There is also a stupid assumption that the only thing bootlegged by the evil consumer are PC games. Every platform out there has been bootlegged for the exception of the PS3 because of disk size. That includes Wii/Xbox360/PS2/DS/PSP etc...

There also seems to be a heavy denial from the industry in which they feel that theres no way people out there exist that will absolutely not purchase a single product. Sadly there is, there will be consumers out there that will live to free load and have absolutely no intentions of ever buying a product. This combined with the bottom line revenue for the parent companies, overrun deadlines, and further more expensive technologies to develop next generation content cause a massive pull against the consumer, which in the end just hurts the company even further.

Bottom line is, a bad product will have low demand no matter what your investment or advertisement has been (ET for the atari anyone?) (http://www.snopes.com/business/market/atari.asp). You always see success stories of excellent productions, be it music, movies, games, hardware, or even books, yet you don't see those producers crying (untill they fumble, anyways).


-Ron

[end of rant]

[mursaat]

FHP makes a good point, steam is the best anti piracy tool in the world.Sorry but I can assure you that Half-Life 2, Lost Coast, and Episode 1 can be played without Steam. A friend of mine does :rolleyes:

[h@RRy]

Omega Merc FTW:D

The problem is that there's a difference between true capitalism and companies innovating new ways to keep their hand in people's pocket only for them to cry *thief* when the people take it out...

[madcho]

ID software created some great games like Q3, but all the game created are a bit too violent games. If they limit the game to UT, Q4, Prey, ... , they can't get more share market of the video games.

ID programmers are very good, Q3 is one of the best 3D engine ever seen. Add it some physics, and you have one of the better engine today.

I think ID will die in the next five years. They don't create new games, new ways to play, they left the cross platform way. I think succes is coming from there.

And finnally they'll not release Unreal 3.:mad:

[uOpt]

I just don't understand why they prefer to get ripped off by MS and Sony instead of by the kids :)

[mursaat]

If the companies lose sales in PCs it's because they (mostly) doesn't release anything new. Just makeups of previous games (FIFA anyone?). They say everything is invented, but that's BS.

IA is absolutely the less developed side of games. I don't care if bad guys can have a beard that swirls with the wind and raindrops keep in their coat. If they cannot understand the simplest tactics, they're useless.

Multiplayer modes can be explored a lot too. There's more than CTF, VS, Cooperative and RPG farming. They should look at modders' work sometimes instead of adding another HDR lightsource that make clouds look like cotton. But then, GPU vendors woudln't be happy.ID software created some great games like Q3, but all the game created are a bit too violent games. If they limit the game to UT, Q4, Prey, ... , they can't get more share market of the video games.

ID programmers are very good, Q3 is one of the best 3D engine ever seen. Add it some physics, and you have one of the better engine today.

I think ID will die in the next five years. They don't create new games, new ways to play, they left the cross platform way. I think succes is coming from there.

And finnally they'll not release Unreal 3.:mad:Sorry, but the hype created around Quake Wars: Enemy Territory is not only smoke. I'm sure John Carmack will do the same good job as in all his previous engines. The flaw in Q4 was the change in physics, and that there was no reason to "upgrade", because the game basics where the same. So same basics with worse physics = fans not liking it. Something like that happened to CS:Source as well. Don't know today, but months ago the numbers of players of CS:1.6 was many times those of CS:Source.

Buy in QW:ET they've changed the game system. And I'm sure they'll renew (and do it much better) the Battlefield system. This is my most wanted game of 2007/8. Much more than Crysis that IMO will be a technical demo of what DX10 can do (I have nothing against this game, I hope to be wrong).

[Gambit_2K]

I wish they just would make _the_ copyprotection that would be uncrackable (and not ruin our cd/dvddrives ;))

[n91htmare]

I call BS, this is a ploy to make them look like the victims, and everyone else like the bad guys. You distribute to multi-platforms to create a greater demand and awareness of a product so when you release the sequel (if there is one) there will be even more notoriety and more sales.

One of capitalisms byproduct is piracy, not everyone can afford everything that comes out unfortunately. For whatever reason the industry believes that the first ever affected market is the PC. Don't know about you guys but I remember bootleg audio cassettes and VHS everywhere back in the late 80s / early 90s, not to mention music CDs since the first day they were released, and the ability to buy them was a mere walk or car ride. Shifting the walk or car ride to a more centralized location (internet) doesn't make it easier, nor does it call for *everyone* to obtain *everything* and form this mass conspiracy against conglomerate companies. There seems to be mass hysteria among the cigar smoking pin stripes that the internet focuses the most evil desire in people, a Robin Hood effect if you must.

I think what centralization of content does create is a shift towards more consumer knowledge. Your able to peer into products you would never look into and form your educated opinion if you want to invest in it through demo or trials or otherwise. This allows consumers to really have a better control onto where they invest their hard earned cash. There is also a stupid assumption that the only thing bootlegged by the evil consumer are PC games. Every platform out there has been bootlegged for the exception of the PS3 because of disk size. That includes Wii/Xbox360/PS2/DS/PSP etc...

There also seems to be a heavy denial from the industry in which they feel that theres no way people out there exist that will absolutely not purchase a single product. Sadly there is, there will be consumers out there that will live to free load and have absolutely no intentions of ever buying a product. This combined with the bottom line revenue for the parent companies, overrun deadlines, and further more expensive technologies to develop next generation content cause a massive pull against the consumer, which in the end just hurts the company even further.

Bottom line is, a bad product will have low demand no matter what your investment or advertisement has been (ET for the atari anyone?) (http://www.snopes.com/business/market/atari.asp). You always see success stories of excellent productions, be it music, movies, games, hardware, or even books, yet you don't see those producers crying (untill they fumble, anyways).


-Ron

[end of rant]

That pretty much drove the nail right though with one hit.

[RaZz!]

well, ut2k3 and ut2k4 are only working with a valid cd-key. everybody who wants to play online needs such a key - how can epic state that software pirating forced them to develop games on multiple platforms?

i don't really get it O_o

[Plywood99]

I know for a fact UT2K4 has an online crack that works. Yes I bought the game, but some friends of mine didn't. Every game I have I bought.

Steam and Steam related software distribution is the answer for the time being to piracy. Hated Steam when it first came out, but now most of my games come from Steam...


Ply

[awdrifter]

So what if they need to go multi-platform, that's a good thing imo. Now people with crappy comp can play games on their consoles.

[Kanten]

So what if they need to go multi-platform, that's a good thing imo. Now people with crappy comp can play games on their consoles.

Yes and the PC versions will be complete crap because the developers intentionally cripple their games during development so they'll run on inferior hardware. :slap:

Unless they build each version separately to take advantage of its respective platform, which 95% of developers will be too lazy to do.

[Torkain]

Yeah, that must be it. All the video game companies are in a big conspiracy together to lie because they are afraid of offending the die-hard gamers by making non-PC games. That makes sense.

Or you can read what Kanten just said, which is why most of the PC gamers are always mad about cross platforming games. I'm not sure why blaming piracy makes anymore sense, since it's been happening to them for years. What just now changed?

[arisythila]

there are pirate servers out there for wow....


i dont mind paying 50$ for a good game i hate to pay 50$ for a :banana::banana::banana::banana:ty game... i bought in disscount onimusha 3 and devil may cry 3 for pc both ps2 ports and old games even the games were bad ports but i didnt mind at all because both games are great i dont mind to pay for something if waht im paying for worth the money....


Pirate servers? They are called Shards, and they are not against the law, and do not break any rules. As long as they don't charge money for playing. Thats why Shards are 100% free. BUT you HAVE to buy the software, you can not pirate the software. But then again, how are they going to know?

~Mike

[arisythila]

Gaming companies killed themselves. I download games all the time, :banana::banana::banana::banana:ty ones get deleted, good ones get bought. Thats how it goes. I'm not going to pay 60 bucks for a :banana::banana::banana::banana:ty game. If they produce good games, people will buy them. It seems like a majority of games are good for like 10-25 minutes, then they are ass. I try to avoid that.

~Mike

[xlink]

Steam and Steam related software distribution is the answer for the time being to piracy. Hated Steam when it first came out, but now most of my games come from Steam...


Ply

yeh, you're probably right on that.

to be honest though, a lot of people giveaway accounts online when they get bored, so it's not flawless, but the one person at a time thing certainly helps since the people who love it WILL buy it just for themselves.

[falqon]

Pirate servers? They are called Shards, and they are not against the law, and do not break any rules.

You could have at least spent 10 seconds and googled pirated wow servers and blizzard, would have kept you from posting wrong information.


http://digg.com/gaming_news/Blizzard_finally_shuts_down_the_largest_FREE_WoW_S erver

And who said anything about steam preventing piracy? It took all of 2 hours after the release of HL2 for a crack to appear that bypassed the handshake. And no, you can't play hacked UT2k4 online on official servers, big difference.

[Torkain]

You could have at least spent 10 seconds and googled pirated wow servers and blizzard, would have kept you from posting wrong information.


http://digg.com/gaming_news/Blizzard_finally_shuts_down_the_largest_FREE_WoW_S erver

And who said anything about steam preventing piracy? It took all of 2 hours after the release of HL2 for a crack to appear that bypassed the handshake. And no, you can't play hacked UT2k4 online on official servers, big difference.

As I understand it, as long as they didn't get the source code (they just reversed engineered) and are not using any content owned by the company, they are fine. There was an EQ shard that was put up and it only ran into legal issues because they used ingame content. (3d models and textures) The game was then changed to use only content they (or users) made. It's been running for awhile now. So it's kind of like you are both right.

[Kingcarcas]

On one hand it sucks because i've spent so much on my PC, but on the other it's great because i've been a console boy my whole life :banana:

[awdrifter]

Yes and the PC versions will be complete crap because the developers intentionally cripple their games during development so they'll run on inferior hardware. :slap:

Unless they build each version separately to take advantage of its respective platform, which 95% of developers will be too lazy to do.

I'm playing Test Drive Unlimited (on PC) which is a Xbox360 port, I have no problem other than a few misspelled words. And I don't see how you can say they intentionally cripple the games in order for them to work on Xbox360 or PS3, cuz both system are very powerful.

[Kanten]

I'm playing Test Drive Unlimited (on PC) which is a Xbox360 port, I have no problem other than a few misspelled words. And I don't see how you can say they intentionally cripple the games in order for them to work on Xbox360 or PS3, cuz both system are very powerful.

And when Dx10 becomes mainstream? They're gonna run into a few problems.

[LOE]

I think they are going multiplatform for more money, that could be traslated as they don't make enough money from PC gaming due to piracy

But I think multiplatform gamas are a good thing, everyone should be able to play what he wants, so piracy turs out to be a good thing in another twisted way :D

But there is piracy for console games as well. There are pirated disks for PSP, PS2, some for xbox. When new gen consoles become more popular I bet we will see pirated games again.

So far I don't think anyone managed to make an unbreakable content protection system. The one that took the most time and resources to break seems to be syncrosoft's hardware key based protection, that took H2O almost 2 years to crack.