SS Phase advice

[PanteraGSTK]

I'm thinking of moving over to phase, but there are a few questions I have not been able to find answers to. I understand insulation and the risks involved, but what I want to know is why so many phase users seem to kill motherboards and cpu's so often? I can't afford to kill my parts. I like having spares. I know that sounds dumb since I'm willing to spend the money for a phase unit. The only reason I'm even considering it is because I have found a number of units for around $300 instead of ~$900 when new. If the units I want sell, or I don't think my components will survive, I'll wait and get a custom unit built. So, considering my meager budget, would you spend the money on a cheap, used phase unit (that I can use for years, hopefully) or get a new cpu or better memory?

I hate asking questions like this, so bear with me.

[n00b 0f l337]

I'd save up to $450-500 and get a brand new unit from a builder who's willing to build more towards your budget.
As for why things die, with the very cold temperatures many are too enthusiastic with there vcore. Thus there CPU might die. Condensation kills most though, and thats simply not proper insulation being done. Or trusting insulation solutions like Vapochill's with the lga system (that metal really does move the heat around).

[x2o]

Hi n00b 0f l337 I seen this post and it got me thinking about this too.

I've got Gray on my side though so I think I should be safe as he is building me a unit at the moment :D

[Exahertz]

would you guys say that its justifiable to spend ~$1500 on tools and parts and build a unit (which could be sold to make back some of that) or just buy a manufactured unit for $900.

i like having the tools for anything i have experience with. who knows... maybe my heatpump in my house might break and i could fix it.

[PanteraGSTK]

I'd save up to $450-500 and get a brand new unit from a builder who's willing to build more towards your budget.
As for why things die, with the very cold temperatures many are too enthusiastic with there vcore. Thus there CPU might die. Condensation kills most though, and thats simply not proper insulation being done. Or trusting insulation solutions like Vapochill's with the lga system (that metal really does move the heat around).

Thats what I was thinking, but you know how it is when you see what seems to be a good price. I think I'm going to get one of jinu's or chilly's units if either one of them can get better. Maybe building phase units is more hazerdous than we think? Hope those guys get better. Not being selfish, I just want a quality unit. I plan to migrate to quad core and will need a unit that will handle the heat. I just need to wait.

Thanks for the responses.

[n00b 0f l337]

(which could be sold to make back some of that)
Markets cornered as it is, anyones chance of building and selling phase units is very limited. I build and sell and will probably never break even! :)
As for buying a manufactured unit for $900, we all recommened against them anyway. Brand new, much better performing unit, from any custom builder will run around $650-700 when cased.
But most of us also offer more budget affairs, or might have some inventory to move.

[x2o]

would you guys say that its justifiable to spend ~$1500 on tools and parts and build a unit (which could be sold to make back some of that) or just buy a manufactured unit for $900.

i like having the tools for anything i have experience with. who knows... maybe my heatpump in my house might break and i could fix it.

I would think that depends on how enthusiastic you are about wanting to build a phase unit I'm new to all this so some of the builds I've seen seem really mad especially the stage 3 and upwards but very cool though. :banana:

[Exahertz]

Markets cornered as it is, anyones chance of building and selling phase units is very limited

what exactly do you mean by cornered?

[n00b 0f l337]

As in, there are tons of builders, competition for prices has sorta put the price of the average unit as low as it can go with Sellers keeping up warranty and such. There is not a large demand and a small supply, theres a medium sized demand and a supply that is currently large enough to overly provide the demand.

[PanteraGSTK]

Markets cornered as it is, anyones chance of building and selling phase units is very limited. I build and sell and will probably never break even! :)
As for buying a manufactured unit for $900, we all recommened against them anyway. Brand new, much better performing unit, from any custom builder will run around $650-700 when cased.
But most of us also offer more budget affairs, or might have some inventory to move.

Plus, they would be able to customize it to your specs and still be cheaper than a "retail" unit. Thats why I'm getting one built when I decide what it will be used on. That, and I'd have to choose a builder. That is enough to make you go crazy. Too many good people to choose from. But that isn't a bad thing at all...

[potkit]

would you guys say that its justifiable to spend ~$1500 on tools and parts and build a unit (which could be sold to make back some of that) or just buy a manufactured unit for $900.

i like having the tools for anything i have experience with. who knows... maybe my heatpump in my house might break and i could fix it.

woa $1500... i got my tools and material for $500

[Exahertz]

woa $1500... i got my tools and material for $500

my tools

Inficon Vortex recovery unit*
Inficon Wey-Tek charging scale
Extech 2 chanel thermometer
Omega 6 chanel thermocoupler scanner with alarm outputs
Welch 8925 vacuum pump*
Welch 1402 vacuum pump
Welch 8803 vacuum pump
Turbo-molecular UHV pump
Granvile-Phillips Convectron vacuum gauge (atmosphear to 1x10^-4 Torr)
Ion vacuum gauge (1x10^-4 to 1x10^-16 torr)
Braz-o-matic MAPP torch
*Cheapo* Oxy-Acetyl torch (full human error warranty)
Argon, Oxygen and Acetylene bottels w/ regulators
30 lbs DuPont R22
2 lbs. safety silv 15% and Flux
Imperial flaring and Swagging die set .125", .25", .375", .5", .625", .75" .875", 1", 1.25", 1.5", 1.75"
2 Yellow jacket Gauge/charging manifolds
60 tubes of dielectric grease
3 EPA certifications
1200 page book (modern refrigeration and air conditioning)
and one good machinist (Duniek)
Plus much more usefull, but not so phase related tools.

Thats way more than $1500.00

[PanteraGSTK]

Ok, I can get a mach II for $300 shipped ( i think shipped). That is a great price, but I would be jumping into phase without researching for a year. Literally, to me this is a HUGE decision, especially since I just perfected my infinity. I know nothing of phase and stumbled on this deal. If I can use this with a quad core (with or without modding in) that would be the deal breaker. I've read that quads and phase don't mix due to the heat output of the quads. As far as my current setup, I think I'd have to buy a new board to even get more out of my cpu, that or mod the crap out of my S3 voltage wise.

Help. I'm too chicken to make a decision like this without knowing anything about phase.

[Exahertz]

maybe you should read through this:

Phase experts: After all the quad discussion, what is a solution in the here and now? (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=135131)

[runmc]

It won't work on a quad core - IMHO

Make sure the mounting enclosure is designed to fit your motherboard. It may be for AMD or Intel. It may be for a different socket mobo than you have.

Save your money and buy a car :woot:

[Blaster]

quads do work on phase, if its properly designed

[PanteraGSTK]

It won't work on a quad core - IMHO

Make sure the mounting enclosure is designed to fit your motherboard. It may be for AMD or Intel. It may be for a different socket mobo than you have.

Save your money and buy a car :woot:

I couldn't even get tires for $300:fact: I'm not going to get it. I'd rather have a custom unit built. That, and I want to do as much research as I can before buying. Condensation turned me away from water cooling, but phase is worth it to me to learn about it. Thanks for the replies.

[MrDeeds]

which could be sold to make back some of that

This is no sort of knock against you and i hope you dont take it that way but what sort of guarantee do you have that someone would want to buy a phase unit from you.

Like nol said, theres a lot of competion already and if someone had to choose who to purchase from for the same price. More than likely its going to be an established builder.

I say if this is going to be your hobby then it isnt alot of money to spend to build your own system and a couple cheap builds to sell. I just wouldnt go into it thinking its an easily profitable venture.

[Exahertz]

no offense taken Deeds. i understand that i wouldnt be able to sell them as a business but maybe i could get some bites on ebay. surely i wouldnt even get half of what the parts are worth, but as i build bigger and better units id have to sell off my surplus to make room.

[runmc]

quads do work on phase, if its properly designed

He said a Mach II.. I don't think a Mach II can handle a quad. :hm:

[PanteraGSTK]

He said a Mach II.. I don't think a Mach II can handle a quad. :hm:

And that's all I needed to know. No mach II for me. Oh well. Now I can save for a big build. Thanks for your advice guys.

[Hot'n'Chilly]

Very nice thread, I am thinking about going VAPOCHILL myself for my next rig and am begining to gather info too.

[harvshark]

Very nice thread, I am thinking about going VAPOCHILL myself for my next rig and am begining to gather info too.

No Vapo for a Quad-o unless you mod-o. Ohhh.

[Barnsley-Bill]

I was thinking the same when i wanted to use a ss phase unit but looking at guys who build them on the forum the performance of theres are by far better than the vapochill units and cheaper in many respects.
this is the road i went down and im a happy bunny now :).



Very nice thread, I am thinking about going VAPOCHILL myself for my next rig and am begining to gather info too.

[Hot'n'Chilly]

How long until the manufacturers start making Quad ready setups? Any guesses?

[n00b 0f l337]

Well Cooler express ( a known spamming company on this forum and others ), now produces one which seems to just counter the problem with another huge compressor and larger condenser shoved into there triple evap unit case and sold at an outrageous price. My guess? No one will counter till larger percent of the small market moves to QC.

[Shalamay]

I have a mach 1 on a x2 3800 and its about all that it can handle. From this I've learned that for my next build, I want a custom unit that I don't have to modify and learn from scratch on how to get working right (its still not right, but it's working). Now, if I could get some of the builders that I have pm'd to pm me back!!! I think custom is the only way to go if you want the best unit.

[n00b 0f l337]

Heh if you PM'd Chilly1 or Jinu theyre both working out of back order.

[Shalamay]

Thanks. I was not going to say any names, but... anyone else close to California or in the US makling custom units? I know that they are busy and I'm not ready to buy right now, but I wanted some ballpark prices.

[n00b 0f l337]

Send me a PM, my bench is still closed though for another 2 weeks though as I dont take backorder, just a list of names.

[Shalamay]

Alright, I can do that. I'm going to wait till I'm a little closer to my build, but you'll get a pm from me. Thank you.

[Xeon th MG Pony]

I am buying all the tools as it is a career move, the list of tools I have would take up far more space then needed so I will forgo that, but needless to say to get the tools to do a safe, guaranteed reliable job that is up to standard for public consumption is not cheap. The parts with care full hunting can be acquired cheaply, but then overhead must be factored in as well.

In other words one must seriously consider why they are going to do it, and is it worth the cost, and how they can recover to a degree the cost of their investment. It is not a cheap venture to get into no matter how one sums it up!